Defour

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat May 13, 2017 1:45 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I'd have faith in our board to make that judgement as they are the experts and after all they made the great decision to appoint Dyche.

I said we should be looking to upgrade our manager just like we should be looking to upgrade our squad. If the board cant find an improvement then we stick with what weve got but dont see whats wrong with keeping an open mind.

Everyone thought it was a travesty when Southampton ditched Adkins after all he achieved but replacing him with Pochettino looks a pretty smart move looking back now.

With an attitude like yours we'd probably still be d icking about in the lower leagues just happy we beat Orient on that fateful day in 87

Yes, but Southampton have billionaire owners and can throw money at this league, we can't.

Based on resources I suspect Dyche is one of the most successful managers there has been in football. He's doing a brilliant job.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 1:48 pm

Wanting rid of Dyche in the name of progress is totally flawed. As if we've not made enough progress with him charge.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 1:51 pm

Spijed wrote:Based on resources I suspect Dyche is one of the most successful managers there has been in football. He's doing a brilliant job.

Your last sentence is correct but the preceding one is so exaggerated it is quite entertaining but then I have already noted from previous posts you are not the sharpest tool in the box

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 1:56 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Wanting rid of Dyche in the name of progress is totally flawed. As if we've not made enough progress with him charge.

Wanting rid and being open top finding someone better are two very different things.

When we were 6th in the Championship playing Mee at left back with Duff and Darikwa in the team we were called negative for criticising Dyche team selection and told we were already punching above our weight. Fortunately Dyche saw sense and look how that turned out but if he'd of listened to you lot we probably still be in the Championship

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat May 13, 2017 1:57 pm

Sean Dyche has it all under control. He uses the strengths of the squad. Over time, he will evolve the style as the squad changes. It will take another 2 or 3 seasons before we are the new Atletico Madrid! Give him that time.

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:03 pm

What the hell do you know about my attitude?
It would be ludicrous to change a manager that has improved the team every year he has been here. What prompts you to think we should change the manager, you clearly have something against Dyche that I don't really understand.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:09 pm

I haven't said we should change the manager just that we should be looking to upgrade the manager like we do the squad if we think it can improve us.

As for your attitude, when it comes to Burnley football club it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work you out based on your posting history

Thanks for the attention by the way

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:09 pm

KRBFC wrote:A choice between him or Dyche? Well that'd an easy one, Cya Sean.
Get Marco Silva in, he'll build us into a force with Defour playing an instrumental role. The kind of football we all want to see, deep down we all hate the Dyche hoofball, I just admit it.

You sound like markeyboy from clarets mad a few years ago with his relentless and illogical howe out agenda. He went surprisingly quiet when howe proved himself a PL manager at Bournemouth. Similarly I just do not get your constant anti dyche agenda.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:10 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Wanting rid and being open top finding someone better are two very different things.

When we were 6th in the Championship playing Mee at left back with Duff and Darikwa in the team we were called negative for criticising Dyche team selection and told we were already punching above our weight. Fortunately Dyche saw sense and look how that turned out but if he'd of listened to you lot we probably still be in the Championship

Nonsense argument.

Dyche won't be going anywhere because he's consistently performed well above realistic expectations and will rightly be given the chance to continue doing so.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:16 pm

I agree that I dont think he will go and as a result I do not think we will finish as high next season as we do this season and think we will again be aiming for 17th place playing ultra boring, over cautious and defensive football based on 11 men behind the ball hoofing it up the pitch.

If he does stay I hope he proves me wrong and manages to get a better balance between attack and defence playing a bit more expansive football whilst managing to keep us around 14th/15th place

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:18 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Your last sentence is correct but the preceding one is so exaggerated it is quite entertaining but then I have already noted from previous posts you are not the sharpest tool in the box

Well I'd say your suggestion that we could get rid of Dyche doesn't make you look like you've got a high I.Q. either!

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:30 pm

Sacking off the manager who took over a side which was skint and favourites to drop to the 3nd tier suggests that some fans miss the Rovers derby.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:37 pm

Who took over a side that included Grant, Mee, Shackell, Duff, Trippier , Stanislas, Wallace, Marney, Austin, Ings & Vokes

Not taking anyyhing away from what an amazing achievement that first promotion was but lets have some genuine perspective about it

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:11 pm

They way you talk you would think we were a mid table championship side, I think it's you that needs the perspective. Dyche took over a team In freefall, the job he has done is brilliant

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:12 pm

Grant left and Austin was sold. Marney and Wallace were given wage reductions. Had there been any takers they'd have walked. Every time a player hit the deck that season we had our fingers crossed due to the thinness of the squad.
We played a few games with one recognized midfielder or forward until Barnes joined for a 'hold the back page' sum of ? undisclosed.

Genuine perspective about it.

I agree that staying up was the first aim this season and then crack on from there. There was also quite a bit of 'needs must' selections this season because again we've been worryingly thin at times.

We're cutting our cloth accordingly and stabilizing. Should be an interesting but no doubt worrying summer in the transfer market as usual.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:20 pm

We obviously was able to offer Wallace and Marney more money than any other club thought they were worth cos as you admit they otherwise would have been off.

We had been a Premier league team and been receiving premier league payments in the 3 or 4 seasons prior to Dyche and had a squad that reflected that. Dyche only needed to add 3 players to the first 11

What he did with that squad was fantastic but lets not pretend we were absolute paupers with no decent players like we were when Cotterill took over as that would be revisionist rubbish of the highest order

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:23 pm

Shore claret wrote:They way you talk you would think we were a mid table championship side, I think it's you that needs the perspective. Dyche took over a team In freefall, the job he has done is brilliant

We were not in freefall. Howe steadied us as a mid table side as he cleared out all the mess caused by Laws and reduced the wage bill. He reinvested the money in assembling a fantastic young squad but never looked like he was going to be able to move us forward.

The change to Dyche was perfect as he took the squad Howe built made some tweaks and through his brilliant man management and tactical awareness turned them into a promotion team

Freefall my ass what a stupid comment

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:40 pm

Under howe we were going down, some of the football under him was dire, as soon as we behind we had lost the game. Some tweaks , bloody he'll I think you forgot how bad we were.
Granted the football under dyche wasn't great but he stopped us conceding which kept us up.
For you to comment on a what you think is a stupid comment is ironic with some of the drivel you spout

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:51 pm

If you think we looked like going down youre about as dim as Spijed so i'll leave you to it but thanks for the entertainment you have amused me no end today

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:00 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:If you think we looked like going down youre about as dim as Spijed so i'll leave you to it but thanks for the entertainment you have amused me no end today

One of your more polite posts I see, considering you tend to slag off other posters on a regular basis, especially using abusive language!

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:06 pm

Spijed wrote:One of your more polite posts I see, considering you tend to slag off other posters on a regular basis, especially using abusive language!

I rarely/never slag off posters and at worse suggest they are not very bright when they post absolute rubbish. I dont think ive ever used abusive language on here but would be happy for you to prove me wrong and dig out some posts that show otherwise

I may disagree with people and challenge opinion but I am normally very polite albeit a little sarcastic at times

Belgianclaret · Post by **Belgianclaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:28 pm

Back to the topic, bound to stay on the bench again

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:40 pm

I'm sorry I don't reach your intelligence but I do fine to live thanks.
Could you answer these questions please?
Are you a Burnley fan?
When did you start watching?
Have you ever posted anything positive?
Do you go to the games?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:56 pm

- Yes im a Burnley fan,
- Been going on regularly since 88 and was a season ticket holder from 1990 till i moved away from the town
- I am very positive about Burnley but the idea of a message board for me is to create interesting discussion and posting something positive seems pointless cos its just preaching to the converted. Although I lovre Burnley I like to be objective about things and their is a real lack of that on here so thats what i like to post about and to challenge peoples bias. I also post the odd tongue cheek post like my original one on this thread although there was a purpose to it as i was subversively challenging how Defour has gone from hero to lazy bad attitude zero on the basis Dyche doesnt pick him and also the fact that the whole discussion was based on a non story with no substance so my silly post was in line with the silliness of the thread.
- Up until this season i have tended to go on at least 15 games per season. This season I have been on one match for various reasons - travel a lot with work so at weekends i have less energy to drive up and down motorways to watch us, i can watch every game on Sportsmania, My dad who i go on home games with is less mobile so he would rather watch the games on TV with me, getting a decent seat at home needs advanced planning which i cant always do and finally although successful watching the style of football we play doesnt help to overcome all my other blockers

There you go happy to answer your questions and my question to you is why does every poster who critiques the club or Dyche have to be labelled with being not a fan, negative and be greeted with abuse by most posters rather than the posters having a proper adult discussion with them not aimed at you by the way)?

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:58 pm

Defour has been treated terribly by Dyche imo

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:59 pm

Thanks for the memories Steven, I too would be ****** off if the ball was constantly flying through the air, hopefully your next team will play to your strengths.

The goals against Bristol and Hull were absolutely sublime. Cheers!

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:30 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:We were not in freefall. Howe steadied us as a mid table side as he cleared out all the mess caused by Laws and reduced the wage bill. He reinvested the money in assembling a fantastic young squad but never looked like he was going to be able to move us forward.

The change to Dyche was perfect as he took the squad Howe built made some tweaks and through his brilliant man management and tactical awareness turned them into a promotion team

Freefall my ass what a stupid comment

Teams that score three and four yet still don;t win go down.

Howe signed some decent players but those that were decent cost decent money. He was bang average for us at best.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:36 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:Teams that score three and four yet still don;t win go down.

Happened once in his all tenure which says more about your agenda than it odes about whether we would have gone down under Dyche

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:41 pm

Think a Dyche Burnley team once scored 3 goals and lost but im sure you'll twist it so that doesnt count for anything

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:44 pm

If he can't get a game today then it's a waste of a very good player. I think he probably will b*gger off now which is a real shame.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:48 pm

U R condomed to a lyfe of long ball crap, hahaha luv rovuz

frankinwales · Post by **frankinwales** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:54 pm

The turd that is saxoboy has re-appeared I see..

Up the Clarets..........

Holtyclaret · Post by **Holtyclaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:14 pm

...... down the b@stards!

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:16 pm

It almost makes me feel sorry for Rovers when I realise that our biggest problems are things like Defour not playing as much as we'd like him to in the Premier League

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:16 pm

Saxoman wrote:U R condomed to a lyfe of long ball crap, hahaha luv rovuz

Illiterate turd!

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:20 pm

Can't speak for what goes on behind the scenes, but I think Dyche has handled Defour terribly on the face of it.
If he wasn't willing to give him some time then it's a waste of a place on the bench, because he's genuinely quality player who could've had an impact today.

I don't know whether it's Dyche's sheer inability to deal with egos, or whatever, but such limited game time when he has been fit and often played out of position when he did finally feature....

Honestly, if I was Defour at this stage of my career, I'd want either big big money (that he could have received in Qatar), or game time in a quality league. Coming to Burnley has evidently yielded neither - and there are times when I wonder genuinely what does he have to do to get a shirt or even a substitute appearance. If was him, I'd be thoroughly p*ssed off too.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:29 pm

Dyche doesn't do it outside the box.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:36 pm

Dyche is welded to 442 which has served us well to date but I'm not sure we will progress to much further without being able to play other systems and accommodating flair players. As an aside Stanislas was always skilful but inconsistent. Looks good player in this Bournemouth side but wouldn't get into a Dyche side at all.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:17 pm

Blackrod wrote:Stanislas was always skilful but inconsistent. Looks good player in this Bournemouth side but wouldn't get into a Dyche side at all.

I'm not sure Messi would get into a Dyche side

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:36 pm

Anthony Knockaert is a clear example of a fair play who also works hard, and has thrived in a 4-4-2 for Brighton for the past season and a half. Those players do exist...

CBT · Post by **CBT** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:43 pm

KRBFC wrote:A choice between him or Dyche? Well that'd an easy one, Cya Sean.
Get Marco Silva in, he'll build us into a force with Defour playing an instrumental role. The kind of football we all want to see, deep down we all hate the Dyche hoofball, I just admit it.

When Monsieur silva's side get beat off BFS's defensive long ball tactics tomorrow, how many palace fans do you think will say" coor I wish we had a manager like Hull's"?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:46 pm

Saxoman wrote:U R condomed to a lyfe of long ball crap, hahaha luv rovuz

funny I distinctly remember loads of Rovers fans complaining about the style of football under Alladouche and now look where you are

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:46 pm

CBT wrote:When Monsieur silva's side get beat off BFS's defensive long ball tactics tomorrow, how many palace fans do you think will say" coor I wish we had a manager like Hull's"?

Silva has done a tremendous job at Hull to even have them still fighting at this stage is pretty remarkable given where they were when he took over. If they were to drop, it certainly wouldn't be his fault, had he been there for a full season they would have finished above us.

CBT · Post by **CBT** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:49 pm

Hmm..
Answer the question please

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:51 pm

KRBFC wrote:Silva has done a tremendous job at Hull to even have them still fighting at this stage is pretty remarkable given where they were when he took over. If they were to drop, it certainly wouldn't be his fault, had he been there for a full season they would have finished above us.

Does the KR stand for Kingston Rovers?

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:11 pm

I think there's a few on here still clinging to the rather fanciful notion that Defour will be a real force next season, transformed by a Dyche pre-season he will rip up the PL. All doubts re him being to physically fit the framework gone.
Yeah, whatever, it hasn't worked, it will never work. Time for him to shuffle off to Qatar, or wherever. Poor, poor signing - an expensive mistake.

claretdj · Post by **claretdj** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:17 pm

Poor poor signing/expensive mistake? U are taking the **** right? Name a better central midfielder we got better than Defour?

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:27 pm

claretdj wrote:Poor poor signing/expensive mistake? U are taking the **** right? Name a better central midfielder we got better than Defour?

Think you've missed the point. He never plays, has he completed 90 minutes in the PL ? Yes, in theory, he's our best midfielder but all a little pointless if he never actually plays. No place for him in the framework, simple as. Hence a poor, expensive signing.

claretdj · Post by **claretdj** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:29 pm

Dyche should fit him in though, even if it's only for 70 minutes as he is miles better than Hendrick n Westwood.. Take your point though..

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:31 pm

claretdj wrote:Dyche should fit him in though, even if it's only for 70 minutes as he is miles better than Hendrick n Westwood.. Take your point though..

I take yours as well as he is almost certainly our best, as in technically gifted, midfielder. But...