Big Spending Bournemouth

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:30 pm

Spending doesn't guarantee success.

Howe has done a fantastic job there, it would take an idiot to disagree.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:31 pm

I did click the link and that kind of table is exactly what im after but if the article is Aug15 then it is likely to be 13/14 accounts or maybe the year earlier but it is not 14/15 as this info wouldnt be available that quickly and Bournemouth arent even listed that suggests it is before 13/14 season

I appreciate your effort to show some facts but still are not able to show the comparison key to the debate

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:53 pm

You didn't read the Swiss Ramble did you?
I already know you didn't, so I'd suggest you go and actually read through it, or at least scroll down and look at all the images....

You need to look for this one.

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Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:54 pm

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Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:56 pm

So a revenue stream of £13 million.

Wage bill of £30 million which was 5th highest in the league.

Yes they got promoted so they signed the right players for the job, but they clearly relied on that bloke who we aren't allowed to mention for some reasons money.

If that's everything settled, I'm off to play on my PS4 if that's ok?

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat May 13, 2017 9:00 pm

At current trajectory Howe will be the next England manager. Things can go wrong, but right now, think he will be.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 9:01 pm

Papabendi wrote:At current trajectory Howe will be the next England manager. Things can go wrong, but right now, think he will be.

I think he'd be a fool to leave Bournemouth for England.

That jobs a poisoned chalice that has seen off better and more experienced managers than Howe.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 9:09 pm

Where they got the money is of no relevance. the relevant part is they had the 5th highest wage bill and came first so just based on that they over performed. It would be interesting to compare with some of the clubs with a lower wage bill on how much those clubs had spent on players the previous few years to build their squad compared to the amount Bournemouth spent along with wages to go from league one to Premier league in two years.

As per you i have had enough for tonight but may look into it a bit more when i have the spare time like i have had today

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 9:22 pm

So their wages exceeded their total income by £17 million and it apparently doesn't matter that their owner clearly funded it...

If you want any further info you can dig it out yourself, because you clearly don't bother with external revenue streams that do make a massive difference to clubs like Bournemouth, even a club like Derby, Cardiff, QPR etc.
You can't simply ignore those things.

Even we needed that loan from Modus/Flood in our promotion season with Coyle, although the difference is we repaid ours, the aforementioned clubs won't and probably never will, but that's acceptable to you...

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 9:31 pm

If Howe had £30m to spend regardless what difference would it make to Howe whether that £30 came all from revenue or whether 13m came from revenue and £17m came from the owner?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun May 14, 2017 1:24 am

130k a week for John Terry and 100k a week for Defoe.......
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... e-10413206

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun May 14, 2017 1:57 am

Up to June 2016, Bournemouth had received about £70m from their shareholder, net of any repayments they may have paid back to him (if any). In comparison, Burnley had received about £10m net from our shareholders.

Either team may have received more in the past and been able to repay it.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun May 14, 2017 8:04 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:If Howe had £30m to spend regardless what difference would it make to Howe whether that £30 came all from revenue or whether 13m came from revenue and £17m came from the owner?

What difference would an extra £17 million make to Howe's transfer dealings and ability to attract players to the club with the extra money for wages?

I'm sure you can work out for yourself what advantages an extra £17million would give Bournemouth.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun May 14, 2017 8:38 am

Lets leave it as you are still missing my point completely despite my best efforts to explain

What Howe had to spend is in the past is unchangeable. People exaggerate the money Howe had to spend making out he had more money than the clubs around him. My argument is he didnt and that 30m spent on wages to take a team who's recently come up from the lower divisions into a Championship winning side is still an achievement. Where this £30m came from does not make it any harder or easier for Howe

You point is without backin he would have only had £13m. If that would have been the case then the achievement for Howe would have been just keeping them in the Championship like Dyche is deemed great to keep Burnley in the Prem

The board gave Howe a further 17m and with it he changed them from a team lucky to stay up into a title winning side.

Finally for one last try the point of the post was to use yesterday unbelievable stat that 7 of the players who helped get Bournemouth out of League 1 were stll starting for a mid tabel premier league side to show that the absolute anti Howe propaganda led by the site editor because he didnt get any special treatment off him whist at Burnley is just that and has no foundation apart from being repeated and repeated until the non thinking sheep and other anti Howe posters believed it as fact.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Mon May 15, 2017 3:03 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:We all know Eddie Howe and Bournemouth bought the Championship and are only surviving in the Premier League due to financial backing but their first 11 today has 7 players signed when they were in the lower leagues.

In fact the only player out of todays back four and midfield four who hasn't come up with Bournemouth from the lower leagues is Stanilas who was signed on a free in the Championship and was a player not regarded by us to be good enough for a starting position

Does the 10million on Lewis Cook not count as a fee ?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 15, 2017 3:19 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Finally for one last try the point of the post was to use yesterday unbelievable stat that 7 of the players who helped get Bournemouth out of League 1 were stll starting for a mid tabel premier league side to show that the absolute anti Howe propaganda led by the site editor because he didnt get any special treatment off him whist at Burnley is just that and has no foundation apart from being repeated and repeated until the non thinking sheep and other anti Howe posters believed it as fact.

Ah I believe I've found your issue...

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon May 15, 2017 3:57 pm

Judge Eddie on success Vs spending. Judge their board on spending Vs income.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon May 15, 2017 5:37 pm

claretdom wrote:Does the 10million on Lewis Cook not count as a fee ?

It was nowhere near £10m but your point still stands that my info was wrong and it was only 6 players who came through with them from league 1. Still doesnt detract to much from what is an amazing stat for just 6 players to still be starting.

Talking about transfer fees though I was surprised to see Bournemouth have spent £35m this season and recouped £20m so a net spend of £15m. Burnley on the other hand have spent £38m and only made back the fee of just over £1m we robbed Bham for Juke

Ah but then theres wages and whilst we had the second lowest wage bill at £33m Bournemouth blew us out of the water spending a full £1m more with a ridiculous wage bill of £34m.

Just to add Bournemouth survived last year with the lowest wage bill in the division spending only £25m - I mean come on what are these made up Russian billionaires like!!

Still if CT says Bournemouth are only where they are because of money and not in a large part because of Eddie Howes excellent management you better tow the party line and beleive it especially when you haven't got a brain of your own Claretdom

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon May 15, 2017 5:59 pm

Where do those wages figures come from, DA?

I find it hard to believe that Bournemouth's wage bill has dropped from the £59m disclosed in their 15/16 accounts to £34m for 16/17.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:07 pm

Is your issue with Clarettony or how people view Bournemouth?

I don't follow what you perceive to be the party line re Howe, but I'm also not privy to all the information in regards to what happened to the youth set up which, from what I've read, was virtually ruined due to Howe's decisions.

If that's your issue, Tony, just say so and stop dicking about with the financial figures of Bournemouth.
You're not really interested in them anyway, that much is clear.

Bournemouth spent well beyond their means, with external help and that's the end of it.
Without that help they'd still be faffing around in the championship or lower.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Only place I could find them was below link which referenced Premier League . com and the Gaurdian but no source data so cannot be sure of 100% accuracy.

http://sillyseason.com/list/salaries/pr ... eam-69064/

It states their 15/16 wage bill was £25m which is way off your records

Trying to get accurate data on this is a minefield but the squabbling matches aside it really does interest me to look at how all teams compared with each other for wages in the Championship so would be interested to see any data you can provide as you seem to knpw your way around clubs financial records a little better than me

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:17 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Is your issue with Clarettony or how people view Bournemouth?

I don't follow what you perceive to be the party line re Howe, but I'm also not privy to all the information in regards to what happened to the youth set up which, from what I've read, was virtually ruined due to Howe's decisions.

If that's your issue, Tony, just say so and stop dicking about with the financial figures of Bournemouth.
You're not really interested in them anyway, that much is clear.

Bournemouth spent well beyond their means, with external help and that's the end of it.
Without that help they'd still be faffing around in the championship or lower.

What i dont like is when things become facts just because people say it enough and they want it to be. Not sure how long you've been on these boards but ever since Howe left and started doing well again at Bournemouth a lot of people have refused to give him credit and just made up loads of rubbish with no substance to back it up

Unfortunately there's a lot of people who take things at face value especially when it comes from certain posters and I just like to add a bit of balance.

On the old board when i provided facts and genuine reasoning to discredit the lies about Howe i had posts deleted and i was once banned because of it. I guess that is my issue with CT in that on the old board if you showed up his bias and lies he deleted your posts and banned you.

I dont have any issue with him on this new board as you are a lot freer to express your opinion. The reason is probably because he now directly makes money from increased traffic due to more controversial posting but whatever the reason it makes for a much more open forum

Its blindingly obvious what a great job Howe as done but as soon as someone states something positive about him it is jumped on and criticised. I really dont get why when he did a great job for us starting the rebuilding process after the Coyle exit and Laws disaster.

You still miss the point about Howes spending versus the boards spending and I fear you will never understand but just refer to Quicktempo's post a few posts up as he puts it much more succinctly than my pages of waffle on the matter

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:20 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Only place I could find them was below link which referenced Premier League . com and the Gaurdian but no source data so cannot be sure of 100% accuracy.

http://sillyseason.com/list/salaries/pr ... eam-69064/

It states their 15/16 wage bill was £25m which is way off your records

Trying to get accurate data on this is a minefield but the squabbling matches aside it really does interest me to look at how all teams compared with each other for wages in the Championship so would be interested to see any data you can provide as you seem to knpw your way around clubs financial records a little better than me

As you say, it's a minefield. I think these sites are basically guessing when they produce these lists because any publicly available accounts are going to be at least 12 months out of date.

It looks like Bournemouth's figures are based on their 14/15 wages when they were in the Championship, whereas ours seem to be based on our PL relegation season. We won't accurately be able to compare like with like until the 16/17 accounts are filed next year.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:24 pm

I personally believe he did a great job with the first team here.

He's done well at Bournemouth BUT he's had the money to get better players, so its a bit more difficult to judge.

Take Jordan Ibe for example.
£16 million and I'm not even sure if he's started a handful of games this season, plus I think I read somewhere that he's not impressing them too much down there.

Now that's a massive gamble for a club the size of Bournemouth, but they can do it because their owner will cover any potential losses.

It doesn't detract from the work Howe has done keeping them up 2 seasons on the trot, but it does take the gloss off it a little when you think about it properly.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:25 pm

Fair enough thanks for the explanation.

Do you know what ours and Bournemouths respective wage bills were the years we won the Championship. I expect theirs to be a bit higher but wouldnt expect the gap to be as big as some think?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:30 pm

Have a look around, you can probably find it on Swiss ramble or other places, I did enough looking at the weekend

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:35 pm

It has Bournemouths figure as £30m but i couldnt find Burnley's on there....i did have a look!

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:36 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Fair enough thanks for the explanation.

Do you know what ours and Bournemouths respective wage bills were the years we won the Championship. I expect theirs to be a bit higher but wouldnt expect the gap to be as big as some think?

Including £11m bonuses ours were £38m, compared to their £30m (their accounts don't show bonuses separately).

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:43 pm

Cheers Paul

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:48 pm

You'd have to say that the 'Silly season salaries' website is appropriately named.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:51 pm

This topic needs Royboy.
Are people really trying to discredit Howe's achievements? Of course they need a little financial help from the owner to level the playing field, they're a tinpot club with crap attendances. Someone mentioned the Ibe £15M transfer fee but forget to mention Bournemouth had stayed in the PL for 1 season prior, same position we will find ourselves in during the summer and I'd expect us to fork out similar on a player having had 2 windfalls from back to back seasons in the PL. They were under a transfer embargo in League Two, he took them up (I'm sure they started on -15 points). 3 promotions in such a short space of time followed by PL survival at the first attempt is pretty remarkable tbh regardless of how posters on here try and play it down as ''they spent millions and millions and bought promotions'' which simply isn't true.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:51 pm

That silly season website is clearly balls (possibly the clue is in the name). Bournemouth's wages last year were ~ £60m. As a comparison, last year West Brom's wages were £72m, Southampton's £82m and West Ham's £85m

Their wages the previous year when they got promoted from the Championship were ~ £30m with significant promotion bonuses.

Our wages last year when we got promoted were ~ £27m with even more significant promotion bonuses. Our wages when we got promoted the second time were £20m (an increase of £5m on the previous year) plus significant bonuses.

The main difference being that we largely funded the promotions from the previous promotions and parachute payments, Bournemouth used their backers' money. It makes a difference overall but not much of a difference when comparing the two managers.

I don't think our wages will be as high as Bournemouth's this year, and that will have helped them in finishing ahead of us. It's worth noting that even though Bournemouth's wages were ~£60m last year they still made a small profit so you could argue the gamble had paid off.

It may not be quite the fairytale it was made out to be but they've still done very well when you look at clubs like Derby, their wages (£32m last year) and multiple failed attempts.

Howe is clearly a decent manager, Dyche is clearly a decent manager.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:52 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:You'd have to say that the 'Silly season salaries' website is appropriately named.

Is there anywhere you can easily get comparative information for Championship teams wage bills the season we were Champions, the season we were runners up and the season Bournemouth were champions without having to scroll through the accounts one club at a time?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:54 pm

Thanks Royboy and aggi you are the masters when it comes to this topic

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon May 15, 2017 7:09 pm

The rule of thumb is that Wages at Burnley, without getting too bogged down in all the numbers, are circa half that of the next lowest in the Premier League (with the probable exception of Hull).

The Burnley figure to Jun'17 will be say £38m before bonuses. Bournemouth will be nearer £75m.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon May 15, 2017 7:15 pm

I would suspect our wages will be in the region of £50m this year (including bonuses). Part of keeping our basic wage bill down is a generous bonus structure.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 15, 2017 7:56 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Is there anywhere you can easily get comparative information for Championship teams wage bills the season we were Champions, the season we were runners up and the season Bournemouth were champions without having to scroll through the accounts one club at a time?

You have this seemingly massive obsession with having all the information handed too you and you've being very specific about what you want.

Make yourself a chart and work through various sites if its that important.
You'll find a mean average from the various bits of information.

If, as others are saying, Bournemouths wage bill has been bigger then ours for a while what conclusion will you get from that, or what will you try to deny happened?

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Mon May 15, 2017 9:23 pm

All I would say is that I would rather be Burnley than Bournemouth any day because in these days of billionaire owners buying footy clubs, shoving their money in to artificially inflate their status/standing in the football pyramid and then SOMETIMES (quite often) losing interest and moving on to another play thing, Bournemouth must surely be right up there in terms of here today gonners tomorrow. The word sustainability probably doesn't have a Russian equivalent. I'd be enjoying every second if I was a Cherries fan, because they must be very vulnerable to a change in wind direction.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue May 16, 2017 11:03 am

Sidney1st wrote:If, as others are saying, Bournemouths wage bill has been bigger then ours for a while what conclusion will you get from that, or what will you try to deny happened?

I'd say they have been bigger than ours in the Premier League but not a great deal higher than ours previously, althoug a direct comparison is difficult. Burnley's 2015/16 is about the same as Bournemouth's 2014/15 but much higher than Burnley's 2013/14 which in turn was much higher than Bournemouth's 2013/14 {when they finished tenth}.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Tue May 16, 2017 11:55 am

Bournemouth's last five years have been a Fairytale, however you look at it. The Club is Cinderella, Howe is Buttons, and the Russian Billionaire is the Fairy Godmother.
The money has augmented Howe's natural talent as a manager and exploited his affinity with Cinders/AFC Bournemouth.
He and Dyche are chalk and cheese, but they are both very talented English Managers.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue May 16, 2017 12:06 pm

I do like how Bournemouth's promotion based upon their owner's wealth is frowned upon, whereas Burnley's promotions based upon the Premier League's parachute payments, and not our own money, is the way forward.

Is it not the equivalent of me going and buying a Ferrari with my earnings through my job, or going and buying a Ferrari with a lottery win?