Labour's manifesto - Brexit

[summitclaret]

The following is copied from th BBC's summary.


1 Accept the EU referendum result and "build a close new relationship with the EU" prioritising jobs and and workers' rights

2 Guarantee the rights of EU nationals living in the UK and work to "secure reciprocal rights" for UK citizens elsewhere in the EU

3 "meaningful" role for Parliament throughout Brexit negotiations

4 Conservatives' Brexit White Paper and replace with "fresh negotiating priorities" with strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the single
market and customs union

5 Reject no deal as a viable option and if needs be negotiate transitional arrangements "to avoid a cliff-edge for the UK economy"

6 EU-derived laws on workers' rights, equality, consumer rights and environmental protections

7 UK's leading research role by seeking to stay part of Horizon 2020 and its successor programmes

8 to maintain membership of European organisations whichoffer benefits to the UK such as Euratom and the European Medicines

9 Will not allow Brexit to be used as an excuse to undercut UK farmers and flood Britain's food chain with cheap and inferior produce.



Let's be in no doubt - 2, 4 and 5 would play right into the hands of the EU in discussions.I think we can say without doubt now that Labour is trying to have it both ways on Brexit. 2. puts the rights of foreigners before Brits. 4 totally ties the hands of our discussion team and 5 means if if JC was PM we would be screwed and probably get a worse deal than we have had for years.

If you want Brexit to be a success you must vote Tory this time.

[quoonbeatz]

its a far better approach than the tory one as its about working with the eu to come to an agreement rather than being dicks about it and seeking to **** off the people we're negotiating with.

on the points you've picked out:

2 how does that prioritise foreigners before brits, given that it includes our ex-pats?

4 and 5 are simply protecting the economy (and the country as a result) from what is shaping up to be one of the all-time economic own goals.

"5 means if if JC was PM we would be screwed and probably get a worse deal than we have had for years."

we are going to get a worse deal than we've had for years, whoever is in charge.

brexit won't be a 'success'; its damage limitation thats important now and judging by whats gone on so far, bar ukip, the tories are the last party we need in charge of it.

[Lancasterclaret]

5) makes perfect sense, and is what business will tell the Conservatives to do btw

Only thing I can really agree with you on is that if you want a "Hard Brexit" and that is all you want, then you have to stick to your UKIP vote. A massive Conservative majority won't guarantee that (well, it shouldn't)

[DCWat]

"Guarantee the rights of EU nationals living in the UK and work to "secure reciprocal rights" for UK citizens elsewhere in the EU"

Reads as a guarantee for the EU nationals in the the UK and then to work on rights for UK citizens afterwards. A strange bargaining approach.

So we should accept any deal, even a poor deal, instead of no deal? A poor deal could be worse than no deal but no one knows yet.

[Claretnick]

It is a shame that the wording on here about point number 2 reads differently to that in the actual manifesto.

http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017/brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[summitclaret]

It's about a negoiation.The EU stopped Cameron getting the sort of deal that might have satisfied this country. The EU started the hardball and the only way to fight such people is to also play hardball. I don't think it is ok for the EU to use gamesmanship and for us to lie down and take their crap any more.

We all know that there can be a deal based on some sort of access for us to the single market provided that we continue to play some sort of fee which is less than our current net contribution. Imo there will also be a deal for x years on EU workers with firm long term job offers in areas we need being allowed access here, but not ecomonic migrants.

The tories will need to be able to justify to the electorate why they have accepted something less than they said they would. The answer to that is that they hard to play hard to get an acceptable deal. Farron, Clegg, Krankie, Wood and the the walk overs will still criticise the deal because they are like that.

[FulledgeClaret]

Surely it would be better to say - we would Guarantee the rights of EU nationals living in the UK in return for reciprocal rights for our citizens elsewhere in the EU.

[lucs86]

2) isn't this just sensible and what the Tories have been talking about anyway?
4) why wouldn't we want to retain the benefits? Have the Tories give up on trying to keep any good bits? How does this tie our hands?
5) we can't hope to win better trade with the EU by leaving it or it would cease to exist, we can only end up with a 'worse deal'. How much worse depends on if we can reach a deal with the 27.

This looks like a way to enter into the negotiations in good faith with a decent outcome as the target. Not just barrelling in for an unneccessary fight (that we'll lose) to appease the press and make us look strong.

[Right_winger]

5 is absolute nonsense.

The EU cannot be negotiated with unless any such deal benefits them immeasurably.

The best thing we could do is "no deal" and persue other arrangements with other countries.

[KateR]

It is a really good way to start negotiations regarding anything, let the other party know you will roll over, let them tickle your tummy and you will be there dog for ever.

JC and his band of Trots cant get any numbers right so if they were in power they would need the EU to do the math's for them. I can not for the life of me see why anyone would vote for JC and the Labour party in general normally, but especially in this particular election. I have yet to hear a good argument for what the Labour party will bring over the Tories, I am not talking specifics and issues such as NHS, education (which are all important) but over the elephant in the room driving this election: Brexit

[lucs86]

5 is absolute nonsense.

The EU cannot be negotiated with unless any such deal benefits them immeasurably.

The best thing we could do is "no deal" and persue other arrangements with other countries.

The EU is right on our doorstep and we've established a massive proportion of our trade within it, we aren't just going to set up that amount of trade with the rest of the world overnight or by 2019.
The EU will take a hit from us leaving as well but it will absorb the shock easier.
Negotiating something that's better than nothing is in everyone's interests, it will keep people in jobs. It will not be impossible to negotiate something if we are willing to negotiate. Labour's rhetoric on this is constructive, Tories' is not. How that makes the Tories the safe pair of hands on this I don't know.

[aggi]

"Guarantee the rights of EU nationals living in the UK and work to "secure reciprocal rights" for UK citizens elsewhere in the EU"

Reads as a guarantee for the EU nationals in the the UK and then to work on rights for UK citizens afterwards. A strange bargaining approach.

Well what it actually says is A Labour government will immediately guarantee existing rights for all EU nationals living in Britain and secure reciprocal rights for UK citizens who have chosen to make their lives in EU countries.

Who knows where the extra "work to" came from in the original post from the BBC but it totally changes the meaning from the manifesto. Possibly a badly worded press release, possibly someone feeling they should do something more than copy and paste, who knows

[Lancasterclaret]

Two things

1) Blue passports

2) waving of a flag

Thats is all.

Problems will just disappear away under a deluge of nationalism and hell, even a patriotic hurrah! or two