The UK needs more immigrants.

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Sat May 20, 2017 12:20 am

Because of the catastrophic economic consequences of you Brexiters, because the NHS is at bursting point and because people are getting old.
We need 200,000 net per year. The article hints that they should be useful immigrants willing to work hard and contribute to our society, qualified health workers being the prime target.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... are_btn_fb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat May 20, 2017 12:36 am

Controlled immigration I'm all in favour for.
Open borders, I'm sure you will agree is absolutely stupid

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sat May 20, 2017 5:27 am

morpheus2 wrote:Because of the catastrophic economic consequences of you Brexiters, because the NHS is at bursting point and because people are getting old.
We need 200,000 net per year. The article hints that they should be useful immigrants willing to work hard and contribute to our society, qualified health workers being the prime target.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... are_btn_fb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So less than the 273k a year its running at the minute ? and a lot less than the 330k it was running at ? so even pro immigration big business says we need less immigration.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 20, 2017 5:59 am

Damo wrote:Controlled immigration I'm all in favour for.
Open borders, I'm sure you will agree is absolutely stupid

I'm wondering how people get here if borders are not open. Except illegally. Good for the people trafficking industry, i suppose.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sat May 20, 2017 6:57 am

No Borders, No Nations, Stop The Deportations!!!!!!!

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat May 20, 2017 7:27 am

Damo wrote:Controlled immigration I'm all in favour for.
Open borders, I'm sure you will agree is absolutely stupid

I presume you do realise that many of the people we employ already come from outside of the EU, meaning we can already control the numbers we take from those areas.

I'm amazed that so many people don't realise that the EU has no control over our non EU citizens. They think the UK has to have free movement of people from Asia, for example.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 20, 2017 7:30 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:No Borders, No Nations, Stop The Deportations!!!!!!!

Just, why?

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat May 20, 2017 7:32 am

The UK needs higher wages and conditions first then we can discuss other aspects of our population numbers.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 20, 2017 7:34 am

claretandy wrote:So less than the 273k a year its running at the minute ? and a lot less than the 330k it was running at ? so even pro immigration big business says we need less immigration.

Where does it say we need less?

Imagine if you said to your employer that you needed £25k/year annual wage to live. If your employer offered £26k would you say "OMG no, that's too much. Are you trying to ruin me?" £25k would be the minimum, not the maximum. Likewise the 200k immigrants.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Sat May 20, 2017 8:09 am

Fact: When immigration falls, GDP is lower, public finances are worse and productivity deteriorates.

Claret&Green · Post by **Claret&Green** » Sat May 20, 2017 8:12 am

We don't need more immigrants we just need to pay those that work in skilled jobs a better wage and get the lazy can't be arsed to work layabouts working! Too many people in this country get so much in benefits they would rather sit on their backsides. Imho unless you are severely disabled there is no need to be unemployed. I know of people signed off on sick for 20+ years with depression. And before any of you say "but things like that do stop you being able to work". I have been diagnosed with depression myself and despite the dr asking me if I want a sick note on many occasions over the past decade I have worked 40+ hrs weekly.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sat May 20, 2017 8:17 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Just, why?

I just like the chant

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat May 20, 2017 8:41 am

Open borders ok how many would come I would suggest anybody who could get into Europe and head for France it would be millions. For every doctor who we welcomed we would also welcome fifty thousand patients for said doctor. Lets apply Labour policies to this and say hey look fifty thousand patients let's build a hospital and get builders working,great lots of the immigrants are builders let's borrow cash to pay for it. Year later another million or so. The open border policy is a joke because you won't put a number on it. We are a small island struggling to grow enough food to feed ourselves despite tens of thousands of East Europeans working in agriculture...Oh that's right they eat it as well. Also there are water supply warnings again in the south east do we ask the immigrants to bring ten years supply of water with them ? Finally it also sticks in the throat of the liberal left but believe it or not criminals also come to the UK and when they have stolen robbed raped commited fraud murder etc we cannot deport them thanks to the liberal human rights act.
Managed migration and strong and robust removal of people who abuse our hospitality is the only answer and would even appease rabid right wing little Englanders like me (well that's what people who don't agree with the liberal left are in their Islington dinner party world)
As a footnote my mum and dad were immigrants to the UK.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 20, 2017 8:56 am

bfcjg wrote:Open borders ok how many would come I would suggest anybody who could get into Europe and head for France it would be millions. For every doctor who we welcomed we would also welcome fifty thousand patients for said doctor. Lets apply Labour policies to this and say hey look fifty thousand patients let's build a hospital and get builders working,great lots of the immigrants are builders let's borrow cash to pay for it. Year later another million or so. The open border policy is a joke because you won't put a number on it. We are a small island struggling to grow enough food to feed ourselves despite tens of thousands of East Europeans working in agriculture...Oh that's right they eat it as well. Also there are water supply warnings again in the south east do we ask the immigrants to bring ten years supply of water with them ? Finally it also sticks in the throat of the liberal left but believe it or not criminals also come to the UK and when they have stolen robbed raped commited fraud murder etc we cannot deport them thanks to the liberal human rights act.
Managed migration and strong and robust removal of people who abuse our hospitality is the only answer and would even appease rabid right wing little Englanders like me (well that's what people who don't agree with the liberal left are in their Islington dinner party world)
As a footnote my mum and dad were immigrants to the UK.

Source: Your own anus.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:04 am

The reality concerning immigration is that nobody knows. Weekly I see migrants who contribute nothing to our economy other than taking and others who are a definite benefit to us. In assessing the economic worth one has to assess what is put in and what is taken out of the pot and I have no idea, and I bet no one else does. it is an apparent fact that most of the jobs created in recent years have gone to migrant workers but the contribution to society cannot be assessed unless one knows the work being done, the pay given, the tax and NI paid and what benefits are received.
The migrants tend to be young which is why the birth rate has rocketed. In one way that is good as we need more young people working to provide the State Pension for the retired. But the extra 200,000 births per year means we will need an extra 2.6 million school places and teachers; a reason why the education budget whilst the highest ever has seen the £/pupil fall. The same applies to maternity services. About 10 yr ago there was a cut back in numbers of midwives and Obstetricians in training but now we need more
Migrants to the UK working for the minimum wage for example harvesting vegetables may well keep the price of vegetables down but if they are entitled to housing benefit and tax credits will they be net contributors and takers from the "pot". More so if they have young families.
Our problem seems to be we have too many low paid unskilled jobs adding little to GDP per person and thus the tax take which is why we still have a PSBR and our National debt is approaching £2trillion.
And that is without the effects on the housing market.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:06 am

This thread could be ace.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:08 am

Spijed wrote:I presume you do realise that many of the people we employ already come from outside of the EU, meaning we can already control the numbers we take from those areas.

I'm amazed that so many people don't realise that the EU has no control over our non EU citizens. They think the UK has to have free movement of people from Asia, for example.

You will find that a number of non EU arrivals are from having first migrated to Europe got their EU passport and then arrived here often in my experience without work.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:10 am

If they hold EU passports then they're not 'non-EU' citizens, surely.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:15 am

Immigrants are part of the reason public services such as the NHS are on their knees. Immigration has needed tightening up for a long time. Theresa May failed to do this as Home Secretary. I hope this is the one thing she does get right despite the rest of her lame manifesto.

HollandsPies · Post by **HollandsPies** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:17 am

What about the 1.5m people not in work but seeking and available to work?
We should only be allowing migrants in where there is a specific shortage of skills.

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:25 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:This thread could be really boring.

Sorted it for you.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:32 am

Your own anus ?
Really is that the best you can do ?

Sad.

Rammy1968 · Post by **Rammy1968** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:38 am

Controlled immigration with skill sets we need yes open border immigration no.
We need to be looking after our own children improving their skill sets and getting them better wages.
My nephew works 60 hrs a week as an apprentice at an engineering firm for £3.75 an hour that's slave labour.
He wants to work and likes to graft but he sees his friends in unskilled jobs earning twice and three times as much for working a 37.5hr week.
We need skilled workers but to get them we need to incentives for the young people of our nation to go down these paths and learn their trade but get a decent wage whilst they are.

lovebeingaclaret · Post by **lovebeingaclaret** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:40 am

bfcjg wrote:Your own anus ?
Really is that the best you can do ?

Sad.

I'm afraid that it actually is the best he can do.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:09 am

Rammy
There is always a short term sacrifice for long term gain in developing skills. I hope your nephew is able to achieve a higher standard of living later for that sacrifice now.
Sadly the millstone of debt around those who go to Uni now means that for many, that sacrifice becomes economically no-viable.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:23 am

We don't have the infrastructure or resources to suit the current population.

It would be very rare for anyone to contribute more than they take out, regardless of their skills or jobs and this goes for people already here. It's only viewed in the numbers, how much money do you pay in tax v how much you take out in benefits, by that yardstick it is easy to saw immigration works.

For every person in Britain there is a need for:
Emplpyment
Schools
Food
Doctors and hospitals
Social care
Housing
Emergency services and policing
Road and travel infrastructure
Leisure facilities

The list goes on. Unless you are earning mega bucks you are likely to take more out than you put in. We just can't afford to accommodate more people. We need to bridge the skills gap internally before we start looking abroad.

If we could boot out the idle scroungers that had the good fortune to be born on this island then it would be great, but we can't.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:26 am

bfcjg wrote:Your own anus ?
Really is that the best you can do ?

Sad.

The hard left always resort to insults when they've lost the argument.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:30 am

bfcjg wrote:Your own anus ?
Really is that the best you can do ?

Sad.

You made things up to support an opinion you hold. If that's the best you can do then you haven't lost the argument, you never had one in the first place.

Stop being full of **** and i'll stop assuming you're talking out your arse.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:32 am

claretandy wrote:The hard left always resort to insults when they've lost the argument.

If you think criticism of your argument constitutes an insult then you're far too emotionally attached to your position.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:34 am

lovebeingaclaret wrote:I'm afraid that it actually is the best he can do.

How am I supposed to argue aganist made up statistics? The guy fabricated an entire argument, am I supposed to give that any respect?

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:43 am

There are around 1.5 million people unemployed in the UK, surely it would make sense to train people who are unemployed to take up post in areas that need extra staff, I do understand it takes time to train nurses and similar times for other trades but I think it would be easier if companies and the Government went into schools and recruited candidates from there, if teenagers left school and had a training/apprenticeship already set up with a guarantee of work surely that would be a great incentive as well to young people. I think it is a pointless exercise bringing in people to the country to work in jobs when we already have an out of work workforce.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:43 am

Blackrod wrote:Immigrants are part of the reason public services such as the NHS are on their knees. .

Despite people having continually pointed out to you - and others of the same view, that the NHS is not really on its knees, but would be in a state of total collapse without immigrants. (both from in and out of the EU). This is backed up by every survey and statistic available.
A really big issue at present, (potentially building to a crisis), is that applications for posts in the NHS from within the EU have dropped to a trickle since the referendum, partly because TM (and her team), have created uncertainty about their future status in post-Brexit England, (and partly because of the significant rise in racist incidents in hospitals since the vote).
This has resulted in vacant - currently unfillable posts - in just about every trust in the country, cancelled surgery, longer waiting lists etc.
Leaving this aside. If we only recruit our surgeons and clinicians from within the UK, then we are significantly reducing the pool of available talent. I want to be treated by the best qualified and most highly skilled surgeons and clinicians, as has been the case throughout my life, not by someone less able just because they happen to be British.
If you were Czech or Hungarian, and a leader in the field of hip replacements or a top cancer specialist and were considering applying for a job abroad, East Lancs is unlikely to look as attractive in the future as it has been in the past, and at present - with no guarantee as to your future status, what would you do?. I'd take my talents elsewhere.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:47 am

I work for the NHS, and can honestly say, first hand, from MY EXPERIENCE, there is no way that immigration has a detrimental effect on the service.

There are many very skilled and professional staff that work for the NHS from overseas/Europe etc, and without them the NHS would not be functioning.

To suggest that immigration is detrimental to our health service is laughable and a claim without foundation.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:53 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:We don't have the infrastructure or resources to suit the current population.

It would be very rare for anyone to contribute more than they take out, regardless of their skills or jobs and this goes for people already here. It's only viewed in the numbers, how much money do you pay in tax v how much you take out in benefits, by that yardstick it is easy to saw immigration works.

For every person in Britain there is a need for:
Emplpyment
Schools
Food
Doctors and hospitals
Social care
Housing
Emergency services and policing
Road and travel infrastructure
Leisure facilities

The list goes on. Unless you are earning mega bucks you are likely to take more out than you put in. We just can't afford to accommodate more people. We need to bridge the skills gap internally before we start looking abroad.

If we could boot out the idle scroungers that had the good fortune to be born on this island then it would be great, but we can't.

We could start by booting out the ones we import.
Total Government spending is about £800 billion so about £12307 for every man woman and child.Assume a population of 65million
Would need to be paying that much in tax, NI, VAT and Council tax and all that includes excise duty etc.
Just based on Tax and NI that is an income of about £49000/year. Given spending that incurs VAT and and Council tax one might be looking at an income of £35-40k and no benefits like child benefit etc
Of course not all the income is from NI income tax and VAT but most of it is.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat May 20, 2017 11:03 am

C&J
It does depend where one is working. But I know of an area where the NHS spends over £1million/annum in interpreters.
Caring for immigrants on average takes longer due to language and culture much as caring for the elderly does where an understanding of problems takes longer to assess.
All of these factors makes productivity in the NHS look poor. Poor Mr Hunt cannot grasp that it may be more efficient to deal with 3 people in an hour than 6. Now really off topic

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sat May 20, 2017 11:08 am

Skilled migrants not an issue with at all. Unskilled we should limit so that our own citizens without work can fill these roles.

If benefits were not available to immigrants including healthcare and our social services ( unless they pay to use ) then we would be a far less attractive to the scroungers who arrive to take advantage.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Sat May 20, 2017 11:17 am

mdd2 wrote:C&J
It does depend where one is working. But I know of an area where the NHS spends over £1million/annum in interpreters.
Caring for immigrants on average takes longer due to language and culture much as caring for the elderly does where an understanding of problems takes longer to assess.
All of these factors makes productivity in the NHS look poor. Poor Mr Hunt cannot grasp that it may be more efficient to deal with 3 people in an hour than 6. Now really off topic

I've had two direct experiences one at Pendle Community and the other in Burnley General with regards to translators.

One, a translator for Urdu or Punjabi I'm unsure which, where the care and treatment ran quite smoothly and as regular as directly conversing with someone who spoke English.

Another, Polish, which was more difficult, but I think perhaps due to the complexity of their needs.

I tink these things should be judged on their merits, but I don't have any stats to back up stuff, just my own experiences.

USC · Post by **USC** » Sat May 20, 2017 11:19 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:We don't have the infrastructure or resources to suit the current population. ... We just can't afford to accommodate more people.

So are you proposing laws to limit the number of children people are allowed to have, as that is going to increase the population? Or is it that we can accommodate more English people, but not foreigners?

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat May 20, 2017 11:24 am

Me too C&J. And these are generalisations the real facts are I believe almost impossible to get at due to All immigration is good and all immigration is bad brigades where in reality from my experience the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes.
I always cite the Russian professor in Manchester who, with others, re-discovered graphene in 2004. Good thing we didn't deport him

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 20, 2017 11:29 am

We need to properly control the types of immigrants we get.

Why do we let someone move country to work as a taxi driver or in a takeaway?
I'd need to check but I don't think I can move to the US or Australia to work on the till/checkout of a local convenience store.
If I can I'd still need to prove I've got x amount of savings first.

We also need to be harsher on those people here who stay out of work on purpose when there are jobs out there.
There's nothing wrong with working in a costa or stacking shelves if that's your skill level, people need to get over themselves sometimes.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sat May 20, 2017 11:39 am

'We need skilled workers'.

Then why aren't we training them?

As an example, the NHS. It seems the numbers of nurses being trained has been reduced:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/116 ... ected.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hence there is a shortage of nurses so we need to recruit from abroad. It is possible this is seen as a cheaper option as we don't bare the costs of training them - the often poorer countries do.

Apparently similar situations occur in industry. Why train local staff when you can get ready trained people from abroad.

Then there is the illegal immigrant which we 'allow' here. I know of a few in my locality, working in general store type shops, or car cleaning.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sat May 20, 2017 12:03 pm

The NHS benefits from skilled migrants and possibly some unskilled. These are few in numbers in relation to the masses that drain the 'free' system that they wouldn't benefit from in their place of origin.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Sat May 20, 2017 12:13 pm

USC wrote:So are you proposing laws to limit the number of children people are allowed to have, as that is going to increase the population? Or is it that we can accommodate more English people, but not foreigners?

No I'm not proposing that.

But there is a difference, I'm sure you will agree, in having a one child policy, and regulating immigration.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat May 20, 2017 12:41 pm

The guy made it up !! Oh come on do you think Sangatte is made up ?Do you think the million plus march into Germany is made up? Are the boat landings on the Kent coast made up ? Are the million plus illegals who have ignored deportation orders made up ? The abuse of the student visa system made up ?The numerous raids on Indian restaurants by border enforcement made up ? Get your head out of your anus turtle and look at the tele.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sat May 20, 2017 1:06 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Despite people having continually pointed out to you - and others of the same view, that the NHS is not really on its knees, but would be in a state of total collapse without immigrants. (both from in and out of the EU). This is backed up by every survey and statistic available.
A really big issue at present, (potentially building to a crisis), is that applications for posts in the NHS from within the EU have dropped to a trickle since the referendum, partly because TM (and her team), have created uncertainty about their future status in post-Brexit England, (and partly because of the significant rise in racist incidents in hospitals since the vote).
This has resulted in vacant - currently unfillable posts - in just about every trust in the country, cancelled surgery, longer waiting lists etc.
Leaving this aside. If we only recruit our surgeons and clinicians from within the UK, then we are significantly reducing the pool of available talent. I want to be treated by the best qualified and most highly skilled surgeons and clinicians, as has been the case throughout my life, not by someone less able just because they happen to be British.
If you were Czech or Hungarian, and a leader in the field of hip replacements or a top cancer specialist and were considering applying for a job abroad, East Lancs is unlikely to look as attractive in the future as it has been in the past, and at present - with no guarantee as to your future status, what would you do?. I'd take my talents elsewhere.

You've got it all wrong N-D.
Nobody is suggesting to refuse entry to health workers from the EU or anywhere else. Any migrant that comes here to work is welcome. The only reason applications might be dropping is because remainers keep raising the point that they might be asked to leave. Well I've never heard any Brexiteer saying all these migrant workers are going to have to go, IF they are in employment. The scare mongering pre and post vote, has always come from the remain camp.
It is, and always has been, the issue of migrants coming here to sign on for benefits, many of which are sent home for children you can't be sure they even have, in order to build nice homes for themselves. Worse still are the migrants who come over here to live off crime. We had no power to deal with these people, and as others have stated, we have enough issues of our own, without adding to it by carrying even more dead weight.
Mind if you can find it written or stated anywhere, by any genuine Brexiteer, that migrants are going to be kicked out regardless of their occupation, feel free to enlighten me.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat May 20, 2017 1:20 pm

Blackrod wrote:The NHS benefits from skilled migrants and possibly some unskilled. These are few in numbers in relation to the masses that drain the 'free' system that they wouldn't benefit from in their place of origin.

Again that's not true, but, in fairness, all surveys agree that it's difficult to exactly quantify the net benefit of EU immigrants to the NHS due to many factors. (e.g. the overwhelming majority of working age EU migrants are in good health, in work and under pension age, [so paying in and working and therefore net contributors,] whereas a large proportion of the ethnic British population are now over 60, so no longer paying into the NHS but taking a lot out.)
Everyone who resides in the UK is potentially an expense to the NHS, but the net expense of EU migrants is significantly lower (per head) than that of the native population.
Added to this, some 20% of NHS staff are non-British (5% from the EU), and 30% of doctors and GPs are non-British (10% from the EU).
How do you quantify their contribution?
It's also not true to suggest that the NHS is a free-for-all. There are fairly strict "residency" rules that now apply. You have to be an "ordinary resident" (for which there are criteria), and if we treat "visitors" from the EU then under the EHIC arrangement we can claim money back from their "home" country. (Admittedly, we're not v good at doing this at present, and EU countries claim a lot more back from us for treatment given to UK citizens under this agreement, than we claim back from them)

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat May 20, 2017 1:25 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:You've got it all wrong N-D.
Nobody is suggesting to refuse entry to health workers from the EU or anywhere else. Any migrant that comes here to work is welcome. The only reason applications might be dropping is because remainers keep raising the point that they might be asked to leave. Well I've never heard any Brexiteer saying all these migrant workers are going to have to go, IF they are in employment. The scare mongering pre and post vote, has always come from the remain camp.
It is, and always has been, the issue of migrants coming here to sign on for benefits, many of which are sent home for children you can't be sure they even have, in order to build nice homes for themselves. Worse still are the migrants who come over here to live off crime. We had no power to deal with these people, and as others have stated, we have enough issues of our own, without adding to it by carrying even more dead weight.
Mind if you can find it written or stated anywhere, by any genuine Brexiteer, that migrants are going to be kicked out regardless of their occupation, feel free to enlighten me.

If this is all evidence based, can you remind me of the official figures on the number of EU migrants in the country, and claiming benefits instead of working, and for those committing crimes?

And while your at it, can you remind us of the amount migrants from the EU contributed to the Uk exchequer at the last election?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat May 20, 2017 1:33 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:You've got it all wrong N-D.
Nobody is suggesting to refuse entry to health workers from the EU or anywhere else. Any migrant that comes here to work is welcome. The only reason applications might be dropping is because remainers keep raising the point that they might be asked to leave. Well I've never heard any Brexiteer saying all these migrant workers are going to have to go, IF they are in employment. The scare mongering pre and post vote, has always come from the remain camp.
It is, and always has been, the issue of migrants coming here to sign on for benefits, many of which are sent home for children you can't be sure they even have, in order to build nice homes for themselves. Worse still are the migrants who come over here to live off crime. We had no power to deal with these people, and as others have stated, we have enough issues of our own, without adding to it by carrying even more dead weight.
Mind if you can find it written or stated anywhere, by any genuine Brexiteer, that migrants are going to be kicked out regardless of their occupation, feel free to enlighten me.

Not sure that anything you have written there is relevant to what I wrote in my post,which was specifically in reply to a post about the negative impact of EU immigration on the NHS.
It isn't scaremongering from "remainers" that is deterring applications from the EU, it's the government's refusal, despite all the arguments and pressure from the House of Lords to guarantee the rights of EU workers who are either currently resident here, or are considering coming here. I'm not going to attempt to answer your last point because it's not relevant and it's not what I said. However, if I were to dig deep enough I bet there are members of the EDL who advocate this.
In your second sentence, you say "any migrant that comes here to work is welcome". I'm sure you believe this, and hopefully the majority agree. however, it's not what Paul Nuttall appears to be saying in the run-up to the election.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sat May 20, 2017 1:36 pm

The gist of the article is that the population is aging and we need to have a certain number of workers to support them, both in providing care etc., and in paying taxes to finance everything.

It's based on a report by an employers sponsored organisation:

http://ourglobalfuture.com/about-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What it doesn't talk about is robotics - the threat to jobs apparently coming soon - and how we finance the facilities for these migrants - houses, schools and so on.

It also doesn't explain how this population growth can continue indefinitely. Where is the end of it? What alternatives are there?

The aging population and how to support it is of course a very real issue which successive governments over the years have failed us in not looking for solutions until recently with measures such as raising retirement age and increasing pension contributions.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat May 20, 2017 1:55 pm

Hipper wrote: The aging population and how to support it is of course a very real issue which successive governments over the years have failed us in not looking for solutions until recently with measures such as raising retirement age and increasing pension contributions.

You've hit on an important point there. The relatively "young" cohort of migrant workers who are currently helping to pay our pensions will not be entitled to anything like the same benefits when they reach retirement age, unless they make a really significant contribution to a pension pot, and even then, they may not qualify until they are about 70 if things continue on the current trend.
For the present however, we rely on their contributions to fund our ageing population.