Incident in London

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:11 am

Police saying more than one fatality.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:11 am

USC wrote:As I said, NOTHING about this is hilarious, you sick individual. Stop making excuses for these evil terrorists by stating it is excused by their religion. Islam does not excuse this behavior. These people are evil terrorists, so stop making excuses for them.

There's only one of us making excuses here, and it's plain as day not me.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:16 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:When I see these ******* cowards come out with **** like "the only way to beat hate is with love" whilst they do it, that sounds to me like its their attempt at a solution.

It's the best one we have right now. If you can come up with a solution that neither sacrifices our values or makes the situation worse then i'll come on board. But I don't see how giving in to what ISIS want can help us. It's literally appeasement, except it is appeasing a group of people who want a war between civilisations. Which makes me think that that's what you want to, because you have to know that's what they want.

The best articulation of my argument against fighting the likes if ISIS with the kind of tactics you advocate was this from Jim Jefferies. Jefferies isn't the first to make this point, and neither am I, but he puts it better than i could so here you go. And a pre-emptive "**** you" for thinking that i get my opinions from a comedy show, of course i don't but we both know that's where you'd have gone anyway.

https://youtu.be/c_oV9k09qc0?t=3523" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:16 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:There's only one of us making excuses here, and it's plain as day not me.

Who's making excuses?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:19 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Who's making excuses?

The person saying above that is saying their actions were in no way inspired by religion. I can't believe there are still people who honestly believe that.

Also, I know they want that. But they also just want to kill us too. So either way, they are ******* winning aren't they?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:24 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The person saying above that is saying their actions were in no way inspired by religion. I can't believe there are still people who honestly believe that.

Also, I know they want that. But they also just want to kill us too. So either way, they are ******* winning aren't they?

So you think by blaming the very person for doing exactly what they do, that that is somehow "making excuses" for them?

And no, killing us isn't them "winning". But even if it was, why would you want to just hand them another win? Talk about just rolling over and giving up, for **** sake grow a ******* backbone.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:24 am

The only way we have even the slightest chance of stopping these incidents is to work with the decent Muslims in the UK.
Alienating them won't help

USC · Post by **USC** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:24 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:There's only one of us making excuses here, and it's plain as day not me.

So who is the one person that you state is making excuses? - gIve me some quotes. I, as as most others on here, have stated that I find this act evil and despicable on multiple posts. You are the one who excusing the vile individuals as simply following their religion - stop making this excuse. Just come out and say these individuals are evil, regardless of their religion. And I would suggest you stop declaring your "hilarity".

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:27 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:

So you think by blaming the very person for doing exactly what they do, that that is somehow "making excuses" for them?

And no, killing us isn't them "winning". But even if it was, why would you want to just hand them another win? Talk about just rolling over and giving up, for **** sake grow a ******* backbone.

I'm honestly lost for words at the irony.

WadingInDeeper · Post by **WadingInDeeper** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:30 am

USC wrote: Stop trying to make excuses for them by suggesting it is their religion that makes them commit these atrocities.

To completely rule out any religious influence, on the actions of religious extremists, is as ignorant as those who want to blame such incidents on all Muslims.

They are being radicalised by extremists who interpret scripture for their own end and promise them paradise. How else do you convince them to take their own lives?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:31 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I'm honestly lost for words at the irony.

I thought you would be because you don't understand how it is that i'm stronger than you.

You want to give them exactly what they want. I don't. It's that simple.
I won't let them win. You would. That's why i'm stronger than you and why you're the appeaser and not me.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:34 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I thought you would be because you don't understand how it is that i'm stronger than you.

You want to give them exactly what they want. I don't. It's that simple.
I won't let them win. You would. That's why i'm stronger than you and why you're the appeaser and not me.

I bench 120kg, ain't stronger than me fam

USC · Post by **USC** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:42 am

WadingInDeeper wrote:To completely rule out any religious influence, on the actions of religious extremists, is as ignorant as those who want to blame such incidents on all Muslims.

They are being radicalised by extremists who interpret scripture for their own end and promise them paradise. How else do you convince them to take their own lives?

Hi WiD.

You misunderstand what I write - I am not saying there is no religious influence or coercion. I am stating that people can not give these evil terrorists "excuses". No individual can fall back on their religion as giving them the right to commit these atrocities.

I work with many Muslims and Christians; they all deplore these attacks and Muslims are appalled their religion is coming into question.

The simple matter is there are evil people in this world that have an "agenda", religious or not. We should not excuse their actions by stating they are only doing this because of their religion (or other reason). They are doing this because they are evil (and often have been coerced into their actions by other evil people).

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:46 am

Right_winger wrote:Unfortunately this problem isn't going away anytime soon.
Our country is flooded with foreigners who want to do us harm, all because the politicians were far too weak to deal with it/actively encouraged it for their own personal gains.

Appeasement isn't going to cut it, sooner or later people will start taking matters into their own hands. You can't continually ignore a group of people who are harming you.

So it's foreigners now?

I thought the Manchester concert bomber (to use just one example) was born and bred here.

I haven't heard anyone, literally anyone, say that we should appease these cretins... perhaps you know differently?

Are you one of these people who wants to give daesh exactly what they want by "taking matters into their own hands" as you put it? Perhaps you've already got your tin hat and rifle at the ready?

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:51 am

USC wrote:They are doing this because they are evil (and often have been coerced into their actions by other evil people).

These 'other evil people' ..are they not muslim ?

USC · Post by **USC** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:06 am

Dazzler wrote:These 'other evil people' ..are they not muslim ?

Not all Muslims are evil. Not all evil people are Muslims. Refer to my earlier post (below) for examples. My point is that it is the people that commit these atrocities that are evil - not their religion. There are Evil Muslims. There are Evil Christians. There are Evil People.

USC wrote:Ringo. Just to remind you that an individual in Portland, OR recently killed two people with a knife and attempted to kill another on a tram. It was a "hate" attack which began with the white nationalist individual attacking a young Muslim girl, and ended with those that stepped in to help being killed by his knife. From what you write, it suggests you don't consider this to be "terror".

We have to remember that similar despicable acts; the one I cite above, plus the Dylann Roof attack in Charleston, SC and the killing of 6 Muslims earlier this year in Quebec are not always committed by Muslims.

Note that no-one is stating that the atrocities committed by Muslims is anything other than completely despicable. However, you should not be stating that only Muslims are responsible for deplorable acts. We are living in bad times and there are a lot of evil people; Muslims and others.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:14 am

20 casualties at 6 different London hospitals.

Mail Online SAYING 7 killed in two locations - London Bridge and Borough Market.

There are a large number of police vehicles and ambulances in the area.

Ex-soldier says he heard a lot of gunfire from his flat near Southwark Bridge.

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:19 am

https://youtu.be/5sEcBzxoMB8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:53 am

There are 6 dead people and three dead terrorists.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:09 am

time to stop ******* about, get the military on the streets, rush through much tougher terrorism laws that don't appease the PC brigade and stop all the ******* about, it's got way out of hand

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:20 am

You're right Vegas but too many Trojans still believe that the horse is a wonderful gift and that all Greeks are very nice people who should be left alone to get on with their good deeds.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:25 am

I honestly thought Vegas was joking. Martial law? Make running people over and stabbing them even more illegal? lol. Surely a joke, right?

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:31 am

Those that think Islam is not the problem need to think about the fact only countries who have taken "refugees " have had terrorism.

Look at Hungary,Poland and Asia where they dont allow Islam into the country.They dont gave any terrorist activity.Hard to miss the correlation.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:35 am

IT at least 80% of the populaton agree with Vegas. Get real,something has to be done.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:37 am

Asia doesn't have Islam or terrorism?

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:41 am

What a load of nonsense is posted at times.

Indonesia formed part of Asia the last time I looked at the map.

That country has suffered far more terrorist incidents than Britain and lost many more lives as a consequence including the Bali bombing.

That leaves Hungary and Poland then.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:55 am

turtle, don't be such a dick - as it stands at present all those people on the watch lists can only be held for a short period of time. Let's say they have a load of pro Isis stuff on their computer, that still wouldn't be enough for a conviction - that's what has to change, the law needs to be far less tolerant.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:55 am

kentonclaret wrote:What a load of nonsense is posted at times.

Indonesia formed part of Asia the last time I looked at the map.

That country has suffered far more terrorist incidents than Britain and lost many more lives as a consequence including the Bali bombing.

That leaves Hungary and Poland then.

Hungary suffered a terrorist attack last year.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:08 am

One thing is clear this morning. The police did a great job last night. From the point of being alerted it took them 8 minutes to kill the terrorists. Impressive.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:10 am

Vegas Claret wrote:turtle, don't be such a dick - as it stands at present all those people on the watch lists can only be held for a short period of time. Let's say they have a load of pro Isis stuff on their computer, that still wouldn't be enough for a conviction - that's what has to change, the law needs to be far less tolerant.

Who decides what amount of "pro isis stuff" one is allowed to possess before it becomes a crime? Can you imagine no reason other than an intent to commit or promote terrorism for someone to possess "pro isis stuff"? I can. For example it could have been confiscated from a family member or by an imam, are they now a criminal? How do they prove they're not? Can an imam not use it to inform himself on the techniques and arguments used in order to help him prevent his flock from being radicalised? Can a journalist not possess it to learn and report tactics used by ISIS which can help inform us all?

Indiscriminently turning everyone into terrorists merely for possession of pro isis propaganda isn't going to prevent extremists from accessing it. They'll just do it anonymously, which they're almost certainly doing anyway. All it will do is turn people who have good intentions into criminals. And what do you think will happen when we start locking up imams who can't prove they possessed it for positive purposes? Do you think those who attended his mosque are more or easier or harder to radicalise when we've imprisoned the guy they looked up to and respected?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:11 am

taio wrote:One thing is clear this morning. The police did a great job last night. From the point of being alerted it took them 8 minutes to kill the terrorists. Impressive.

2 minute response time too.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:17 am

Turtle uou could say the same thing about chold porn laws,having material on a computer.

Do yoh actually watch the clarets. Would love to discuss this with you over a pint in the miners.

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:18 am

Nearly as good as Turtle's thread comment retort response time.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:21 am

Sorry about the typo's but I am literally shaking with anger about you defending taking any constructive action against those people on the list.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:21 am

I'm afraid to take my kids to city centres and popular tourist attractions at the moment.

Any Muslim people who know of any information which may help stop the next attack. And there will be hundreds of people who know someone who is edging towards extremism across the country. People who preach and glorify these atrocities. Places where worship takes place as well as radicalism seeds planted.

You must help stop this please for the country to progress as one society. We are all here for a blink of a second to enjoy our lives and see our families grow.

The UK needs a full task force across the country working with the Muslim community to out there clerics and children who have turned to hate. Coupled with tougher laws when evidence is presented.

This is very much an Islamic issue a Muslim issue and our people are dying on our streets due to a silence from the Muslim/Islamic community.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:24 am

paulatky wrote:Turtle uou could say the same thing about chold porn laws,having material on a computer.

Do yoh actually watch the clarets. Would love to discuss this with you over a pint in the miners.

Not really. That child porn isn't free and the production of it necessitates the abuse of a child. That's why it's illegal, because by simply downloading it you provide a market for the sexual abuse of children.

Nothing remotely the same can be said about some words written down by a jihadi.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:27 am

sorry to hurt your feeling imploding turtle but I'm going to say it.
Concentration camps. round up all the extremists and there families and put them
In concentration camps. Make them work 12 hours a day making shoes or clothes for no money an scraps to eat.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:27 am

paulatky wrote:Sorry about the typo's but I am literally shaking with anger about you defending taking any constructive action against those people on the list.

Wow. You need a ******* Horlicks. If you get so angry that it gives you shakes just because, well, i'm not sure why actually, but you need to calm yourself.

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:28 am

Bfcboyo wrote:I'm afraid to take my kids to city centres and popular tourist attractions at the moment.

Any Muslim people who know of any information which may help stop the next attack. And there will be hundreds of people who know someone who is edging towards extremism across the country. People who preach and glorify these atrocities. Places where worship takes place as well as radicalism seeds planted.

You must help stop this please for the country to progress as one society. We are all here for a blink of a second to enjoy our lives and see our families grow.

The UK needs a full task force across the country working with the Muslim community to out there clerics and children who have turned to hate. Coupled with tougher laws when evidence is presented.

This is very much an Islamic issue a Muslim issue and our people are dying on our streets due to a silence from the Muslim/Islamic community.

In the US they have a Muslim advocacy group called CAIR - the equivalent of our Muslim Council of Britain. When the authorities begged them to be vigilant and to report anything suspicious in order to save lives, this was their response -

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:28 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:sorry to hurt your feeling imploding turtle but I'm going to say it.
Concentration camps. round up all the extremists and there families and put them
In concentration camps. Make them work 12 hours a day making shoes or clothes for no money an scraps to eat.

Why would you think that hurts my feelings? It's extremely stupid, but I don't feel insulted or offended by people making dumb suggestions intended to make things worse.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:29 am

8 minutes after .

I would prefer 8 minutes before.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:30 am

Imploding why is it a dumb solution? Takes the threat of our streets and doesn't exterminate like you quite evidently want.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:33 am

Newcastle,80% of people agree with you.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:34 am

morpheus2 wrote:In the US they have a Muslim advocacy group called CAIR - the equivalent of our Muslim Council of Britain. When the authorities begged them to be vigilant and to report anything suspicious in order to save lives, this was their response -

That wasn't their response. That poster was created in the 70s or 80s according to CAIR, not recently. And they no longer use it because of how its been misinterpreted.

Here's a Fox News article, of all sources, about it.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/13/ca ... reted.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:37 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:Imploding why is it a dumb solution? Takes the threat of our streets and doesn't exterminate like you quite evidently want.

I've explained why a number of times, and given that you hold the attitude that i want people to die you don't seem like the kind of mind worthy of my time.

But i will summarise why it's a dumb solution for you. It would make it worse. How can something that makes things worse be a "solution"?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:40 am

After every one of these attacks, the leftists sink deeper and deeper into their comfort blanket of denial. Facebook and Twitter is totally awash with comments defining Islam as "a religion of peace, with only one entry or two bad apples who aren't even real Muslims anyway."

It's this denial that worries me, how many more terrorists have to kill, screaming god is great whilst willing giving their lives in the process for these leftists to face reality? I fear it will never happen.

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:43 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:That wasn't their response. That poster was created in the 70s or 80s according to CAIR, not recently. And they no longer use it because of how its been misinterpreted.

Here's a Fox News article, of all sources, about it.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/13/ca ... reted.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Used until they were recently called up about it - as soon as news networks found it displayed on their California chapter in 2011, CAIR will of course say whatever they want to save face. What other way is there to represent it?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:45 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:After every one of these attacks, the leftists sink deeper and deeper into their comfort blanket of denial.

You accuse others of denial yet you think internment and persecution is a solution even though it's been made crystal clear to you how such "solutions" would make things far worse.

Is making it worse actually what you want? This isn't a rhetorical question. I'd like to know if you actually want a war between the west and all Muslims, because your persistence in wanting to give in to the likes of ISIS certainly suggests so.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:47 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:After every one of these attacks, the leftists sink deeper and deeper into their comfort blanket of denial. Facebook and Twitter is totally awash with comments defining Islam as "a religion of peace, with only one entry or two bad apples who aren't even real Muslims anyway."

It's this denial that worries me, how many more terrorists have to kill, screaming god is great whilst willing giving their lives in the process for these leftists to face reality? I fear it will never happen.

Strange that because all I seem to see is idiots in favour of deporting them all or banging them all in concentration camps.
Now obviously they don't know who they are so it's not a solution. But it makes them feel better.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:48 am

morpheus2 wrote:Used until they were recently called up about it - as soon as news networks found it displayed on their California chapter in 2011, CAIR will of course say whatever they want to save face. What other way is there to represent it?

Do you really think they had been using it across the country for 10 years after the 9/11 attacks and this was the first time its use was reported by the likes of Fox? Or do you think that perhaps this was one of probably very few times (maybe even the first time) it was used since 9/11 and that the leadership of CAIR didn't know about it until the press reported on it?

There are far better explanations than to assume that the entire organisation of CAIR is actively impeding the investigation of terrorism.