General Election 2017 Mega Thread

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:55 am

Right_winger wrote: Do you genuinely believe that the cut in the number of police has actually contributed to the recent attacks? Do you not think that the mass migration and us taking in the rubbish the rest of the world don't want hasn't contributed to it?

The police warned that police cuts will lead to more attacks. Watch the video.
https://twitter.com/WillBlackWriter/sta ... 7622085632

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:56 am

Right_winger wrote:A man who is in bed with the IRA and other terrorist factions, wants to scrap our armed forces and has absolutely no idea how a western economy works.

He's got some very outrageous views in fact hasn't he been under MI5 surveillance for the past 30 years because of his views?

Do you genuinely believe that the cut in the number of police has actually contributed to the recent attacks? Do you not think that the mass migration and us taking in the rubbish the rest of the world don't want hasn't contributed to it?

We have to make allowences all...Obviously a gutter press reader

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:56 am

DCWat wrote:Of course the police are going to say that they need more (I don't dispute that they do). I'm not convinced that more police would have prevented a single one of the recent attacks, whilst increased budget for our security services (which has been increased, I believe) does help to stop attacks.

As things stand I'd want more funding given to our security services than police.

Sure, but you consider their arguments. You don't publicly call them "scaremongers" or say they're "crying wolf". And if you're wrong you face up to that fact and its political consequences.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:57 am

Right_winger wrote:A man who is in bed with the IRA and other terrorist factions, wants to scrap our armed forces and has absolutely no idea how a western economy works.

He's got some very outrageous views in fact hasn't he been under MI5 surveillance for the past 30 years because of his views?

Do you genuinely believe that the cut in the number of police has actually contributed to the recent attacks? Do you not think that the mass migration and us taking in the rubbish the rest of the world don't want hasn't contributed to it?

Wait, you're saying he's been on a watch list? So do you think the opposition leader should be interned too?

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:00 am

Since people love saying that lone wolf attacks can't be stopped... what would 20,000 extra police do exactly do thwart this?

I know what it would do, it would leave them looking for something to do 99.5% of the time which means they'll come looking for YOU!

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:05 am

starting_11 wrote:Since people love saying that lone wolf attacks can't be stopped... what would 20,000 extra police do exactly do thwart this?

I know what it would do, it would leave them looking for something to do 99.5% of the time which means they'll come looking for YOU!

Total ********. Watch the video I linked above. He explained what extra officers can do. More police means more time to investigate intelligence given from the general public. Those who are "known" but on the periphery might have got investigated had they had the extra resource.
In the event of another Borough Market, outside of London or Manchester then the extra armed police would be vital in bringing a swift end to the attack.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:07 am

starting_11 wrote:Since people love saying that lone wolf attacks can't be stopped... what would 20,000 extra police do exactly do thwart this?

I know what it would do, it would leave them looking for something to do 99.5% of the time which means they'll come looking for YOU!

Community policing brings with it intelligence. Intelligence that can be acted upon either directly with arrests or indirectly with surveillance. Had we had more people working the intelligence about Salmon Abedi then perhaps his attack could have been prevented. Had we had any intelligence about the planning of an attack in London then maybe that wouldn't have happened.

More police means it's less likely an attack will succeed. It's no guarentee, and there's certainly a ceiling of acceptability before we literally become a police state, but she knew we faced threats and chose to make cuts against preventing those threats anyway.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:18 am

More surveillance / numbers in the security service would surely have been more likely to prevent these attacks.

I'm in no way discrediting community policing and accept that this may itself result in intelligence. Intelligence doesn't appear to have been the issue in London or Manchester.

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:27 am

Right_winger wrote:I can't wait to come on here tomorrow and rub the libtards nose's in it when the Tories return a huge majority.

I bloody hope that doesn't happen.

And so I'm sure do the poor,the disabled and the disadvantaged in our society

IAmAClaret · Post by **IAmAClaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:34 am

I simply can't vote for Labour due to the muppets at the top.... Corbyn eats cold baked beans from the tin, and Abbott simply can't add up = disaster.

So, a choice between the Tory's or the Lib Dems (pointless party who may as well give up).

So, a choice between the Tory's and UKIP (Hanging on in there - but surely a 'wasted' vote).

And I really don't buy this "Community Policing" thing - especially with the recent London attacks. They were all known, we had the intelligence regardless of the 'drastic cuts in policing' -we just didn't act on it.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:36 am

IAmAClaret wrote:I simply can't vote for Labour due to the muppets at the top.... Corbyn eats cold baked beans from the tin, and Abbott simply can't add up = disaster.

So, a choice between the Tory's or the Lib Dems (pointless party who may as well give up).

So, a choice between the Tory's and UKIP (Hanging on in there - but surely a 'wasted' vote).

Does Theresa May fill you with confidence, that she is the one to take us forward, after the past 6 weeks? The fact that Labour are still in the race shows just how weak a performance her and her team have put in. She's flip flopped on major policies. She's hidden from the public. She's ran from debate. Spineless. Doesn't have an ounce of Maggy Thatcher in her. As bad as Thatcher was, at least she was "ballsy".

IAmAClaret wrote: And I really don't buy this "Community Policing" thing - especially with the recent London attacks. They were all known, we had the intelligence regardless of the 'drastic cuts in policing' -we just didn't act on it.

They didn't act on it because they don't have the resources to carry out the actions on a lot of intelligence they receive, they prioritise based on what they feel are the biggest threats. Surely you can see that more police/MI5 will mean more intelligence can be acted upon?

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:41 am

Of all the pros and cons of who to vote for the "Corbyn eats cold beans from the tin" is the best and most relevant for me, it's just wrong and nobody should do it.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:49 am

You either believe the party of the rich with austerity for the masses, with a slogan that is total fabrication OR
You give the party of the people a chance to show they can deliver.

The fact that the Tories said it did not cost in...it only raises 40 billion not 49 billion, says to me that Labour can deliver 8p% of a dream programme versus Tories delivering austerity and lies.

Anyway Tory toffs kill foxes for sport!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:50 am

You can have 100,000 community police officers but if the community they serve ain't gonna bubble on a terrorist it ain't worth jack

66% of muslims would NOT inform the police of potential terrorism. According to the Asian Voice newspaper.

.https://www.asian-voice.com/News/UK/66- ... r-tip-offs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:51 am

IanMcL wrote:You either believe the party of the rich with austerity for the masses, with a slogan that is total fabrication OR
You give the party of the people a chance to show they can deliver.

The fact that the Tories said it did not cost in...it only raises 40 billion not 49 billion, says to me that Labour can deliver 8p% of a dream programme versus Tories delivering austerity and lies.

Anyway Tory toffs kill foxes for sport!

Please don't edit cos they probably have their 8p s £8 s wrong

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:51 am

Vote Labour.

If you want a terrorist for a neighbour........

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:59 am

Interesting feature today in the paper by Richard Deerlove (sp?) ex head of security services, saying Corbyn's past would have had him automatically rejected via the vetting process not only for any job in the security services but also rejected via vetting from seeing any sensitive intelligence if he held any cabinet post. The only job they can't do anything about is if he was PM.

Nobody will be persuaded against voting for that waste of space now, my point is just to highlight how incompetent the Tory campaign has been that they haven't made more of this, nor of the economy (with Hammond in hibernation apparently).

p.s. If someone like David Milliband was leader I would probably have voted Labour this time, apart from the Brexit issue, on other issues moderate Labour would be the best bet for me this time.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:00 am

If my neighbour is a terrorist, then I'm looking forward to the headlines when the "Zimmerframe bomber strikes"

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:04 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:You can have 100,000 community police officers but if the community they serve ain't gonna bubble on a terrorist it ain't worth jack

66% of muslims would NOT inform the police of potential terrorism. According to the Asian Voice newspaper.

.https://www.asian-voice.com/News/UK/66- ... r-tip-offs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's been clear from both the Manchester bombing and the London attacks is that the community DID inform the police. Abedi was reported multiple times from people close to him and two of the Borough Market attackers had been reported from people within their community.

It wasn't acted upon.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:05 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:If my neighbour is a terrorist, then I'm looking forward to the headlines when the "Zimmerframe bomber strikes"

My advice, along the lines of the 'Witches trials'
Set fire to his house, if he runs out unhindered he was a terrorist in disguise, if he doesn't then, well at least you'll know for sure.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:09 am

Dom wrote:What's been clear from both the Manchester bombing and the London attacks is that the community DID inform the police. Abedi was reported multiple times from people close to him and two of the Borough Market attackers had been reported from people within their community.

It wasn't acted upon.

More police would not have changed that fact that, despite arguments to the contrary, all public bodies pussy foot around the Muslim community for fear of upsetting them, and being accused of being rascists and losing their votes.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:10 am

Dom,that survey you refer to is over a year old.

Opinions are changing as a result of the recent attacks.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:14 am

paulatky wrote:Dom,that survey you refer to is over a year old.

Opinions are changing as a result of the recent attacks.

Do you mean Ringo?

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:15 am

paulatky wrote:Dom,that survey you refer to is over a year old.

Opinions are changing as a result of the recent attacks.

Mate I didn't refer to it, Ringo did. I was pulling him up on the fact that the recent attackers were reported by their own community.

BleedingClaret wrote:
More police would not have changed that fact that, despite arguments to the contrary, all public bodies pussy foot around the Muslim community for fear of upsetting them, and being accused of being rascists and losing their votes.

More police/more MI5 means more intelligence can be acted upon. The police don't pussyfoot around when it comes to counter terrorism but they have to prioritise intelligence based on the perceived threat. Ordinary muslims don't want terrorists in their midst, they get tarred with the same brush.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:17 am

Dom wrote:What's been clear from both the Manchester bombing and the London attacks is that the community DID inform the police. Abedi was reported multiple times from people close to him and two of the Borough Market attackers had been reported from people within their community.

It wasn't acted upon.

Then you have to assume that the informers were from the 33% of muslims who WOULD inform on terrorists.

We are therefore in a real life situation of hoping that it's the 33% that hear about a plot and not the majority 66%

Great!

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:19 am

The fact that you can go or try to go to Syria, to fight for IS come home and walk free and then kill innocent people.
That's not pussy footing by the authorities?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:21 am

BleedingClaret wrote:The fact that you can go or try to go to Syria, to fight for IS come home and walk free and then kill innocent people.
That's not pussy footing by the authorities?

It's already illegal to go and do that. Who is doing that and not being arrested for it? And if people aren't being arrested and tried then they should, providing the evidence is there.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:23 am

Sorry guys ,yes looking again it was Ringo.

I dont spend all my life on here like some of you, so not as bb savy as some of you.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:24 am

paulatky wrote:Sorry guys ,yes looking again it was Ringo.

I dont spend all my life on here like some of you, so not as bb savy as some of you.

We all make mistakes. Your parents, for example.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:27 am

paulatky wrote:Dom,that survey you refer to is over a year old.

Opinions are changing as a result of the recent attacks.

Or you could look at it another way Paul.

Since the survey was done, 2016 when there weren't any terrorist atrocities in england. Attitudes have actually worsened, and there are even fewer Muslims prepared to inform on islamic terrorists. Perhaps the number has risen to MORE than 66%?

That's why we've had Westminster bridge, the Arena and London.

Actions speak louder than survey results. Maybe.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:27 am

Labour supporters today...

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:28 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Or you could look at it another way Paul.

Since the survey was done, 2016 when there weren't any terrorist atrocities in england. Attitudes have actually worsened, and there are even fewer Muslims prepared to inform on islamic terrorists. Perhaps the number has risen to MORE than 66%?

That's why we've had Westminster bridge, the Arena and London.

Actions speak louder than survey results. Maybe.

Aside from the deadliest bombings on UK soil since the IRA, 7/7. You're totally correct.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:29 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:We all make mistakes. Your parents, for example.

@rse

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:29 am

You realy are a sad and vindictive individual Turtle. I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:29 am

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:29 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's already illegal to go and do that. Who is doing that and not being arrested for it? And if people aren't being arrested and tried then they should, providing the evidence is there.

The third London killer MorrocanItalian tried to go to Instanbul en route to Syria carrying IS material.
Italian authorities reported it through the Schengen system, he came here it would should have come up at passport control.

kendaldave · Post by **kendaldave** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:30 am

Qriously (which correctly predicted the Brexit result) final survey:

Labour - 41.3%
Conservatives - 38.5%

Final result too close to call because the difference falls within the 3.2 per cent margin of error.

Some polling company or other is going to be wildly wrong!

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:30 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Then you have to assume that the informers were from the 33% of muslims who WOULD inform on terrorists.

We are therefore in a real life situation of hoping that it's the 33% that hear about a plot and not the majority 66%

Great!

They surveyed 1000 people for the survey you talk about, surveys aren't an exact science. I don't believe that 66% wouldn't inform the police, especially now IS are killing fellow muslims in their thousands in the middle east.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:30 am

paulatky wrote:You realy are a sad and vindictive individual Turtle. I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Vote Corbyn and get a free sense of humour on the NHS.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:30 am

BleedingClaret wrote:The third London killer MorrocanItalian tried to go to Instanbul en route to Syria carrying IS material.
Italian authorities reported it through the Schengen system, he came here it would should have come up at passport control.

No arrest warrant was issued, that's how he came back here.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:32 am

Dom wrote:They surveyed 1000 people for the survey you talk about, surveys aren't an exact science. I don't believe that 66% wouldn't inform the police, especially now IS are killing fellow muslims in their thousands in the middle east.

Yes they are. Often they're conducted badly and are worthless, but acquiring data and reading it is a science.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:33 am

A science which in your eyes only you is capable of doing

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:35 am

If you knew the story behind my parents you would know how hurtful your remark was. It was not humourous in any way,far from it.

Anyway thats another victory for you,I am done with site.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:36 am

claretdom wrote:A science which in your eyes only you is capable of doing

Lol. what? Whatis it that informs that opinion?

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:37 am

Maybe you should conduct a survey as to why and study the data

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:38 am

paulatky wrote:If you knew the story behind my parents you would know how hurtful your remark was. It was not humourous in any way,far from it.

Anyway thats another victory for you,I am done with site.

The internet really isn't for you.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:38 am

claretdom wrote:Maybe you should conduct a survey as to why and study the data

I did, by asking you.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:38 am

You would reject my information as biased so ask everyone else.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:42 am

Dom wrote:Aside from the deadliest bombings on UK soil since the IRA, 7/7. You're totally correct.

Dom, I said Westminster bridge, the Arena and London.

Read what I posted.

I'm saying since the survey. The above could be evidence of a hardening of opinion of muslims . And at 66% there were no atrocities. We've had 3 since the survey. As you say the "deadliest bombings" may show there are fewer muslims who are willing to inform on islamic terrorists.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:43 am

Dom wrote:They surveyed 1000 people for the survey you talk about, surveys aren't an exact science. I don't believe that 66% wouldn't inform the police, especially now IS are killing fellow muslims in their thousands in the middle east.

Isis were killing fellow Muslims when the survey took place.