A couple of years old, but teachers vote Labour... https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/01/02/te ... r-lead-41/Paul Waine wrote:Some young people will be better educated than some older people, but ask yourself, who is doing the educating?
McDonnell's Lies
-
- Posts: 5069
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:14 pm
- Been Liked: 1157 times
- Has Liked: 496 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Re: McDonnell's Lies
I'm curious what this anecdote shows. Your son-in-law conducted research and decided that Corbyn was the one he wanted to vote for but you decided with no research that he was wrong? It doesn't seem like a strong argument.Claretski wrote:And there UTB lies the rub
Most younger people are idealistic, I was myself, it is usually experience gained as you get older that allows a more balanced and reflective view of society.
There is also another factor in play as well now, social media which can have a band waggon effect and whilst yes us "oldies" do use social media (I am now obviously) we do not generally let it rule our lives.
I was discussing the "Corbyn" effect with my son in law just before the election as he had "researched" the internet and got all of the answers he needed to support him and my reply to the question as to why I wasn't voting for him was that I was voting for his and my sons future.
If the current incarnation of Labour come to power I am afraid that the country is going to face some very hard times far removed from the idealistic utopia that is being fed to the younger generation.
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Blatant fishing attempt, 2/10UpTheBeehole wrote:With easier access to higher education, the younger generations are therefore a lot more intelligent than the older generations.
Which generation is it which votes for Brexit and the Tories?
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: McDonnell's Lies
But the onus is on the current government to offer something for the young.
So far they have
-austerity
-leaving the EU, with the indication being a "Hard Brexit"
-keeping the triple lock
-student fees/nursing bursaries costing a lot
-very high house prices
-not enough safe social housing
You can see why they ignore anyone old going "oh, its all going to go wrong if you listen to that bloke with the beard"
So far they have
-austerity
-leaving the EU, with the indication being a "Hard Brexit"
-keeping the triple lock
-student fees/nursing bursaries costing a lot
-very high house prices
-not enough safe social housing
You can see why they ignore anyone old going "oh, its all going to go wrong if you listen to that bloke with the beard"
This user liked this post: CrosspoolClarets
-
- Posts: 5069
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:14 pm
- Been Liked: 1157 times
- Has Liked: 496 times
-
- Posts: 5069
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:14 pm
- Been Liked: 1157 times
- Has Liked: 496 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Thick old people vote Conservative
Re: McDonnell's Lies
I think what he was saying was his son-in-law did his research on social media where quite a lot of ******** was posted.aggi wrote:I'm curious what this anecdote shows. Your son-in-law conducted research and decided that Corbyn was the one he wanted to vote for but you decided with no research that he was wrong? It doesn't seem like a strong argument.
Specifically by Labour supporters
Re: McDonnell's Lies
The offer of free "tossing it off for three years at everyone else's expense" might just of skewed that a little.
Also, it shows that Labour is no longer the party of the working classes
This user liked this post: CardyTheClaret
-
- Posts: 5069
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:14 pm
- Been Liked: 1157 times
- Has Liked: 496 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Pardon?Damo wrote:The offer of free "tossing it off for three years at everyone else's expense" might just of skewed that a little.
Also, it shows that Labour is no longer the party of the working classes

-
- Posts: 6747
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
- Been Liked: 1973 times
- Has Liked: 504 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Very true that comment. The trouble is, it won't work.Lancasterclaret wrote:Arguing on here won't change the fact that a large percentage of people younger than me are prepared to make you pay more so they can have the same chances that you had.
People will apply a multitude of tactics to avoid it, from retiring early, going part time, setting up a business, moving abroad, hiring a good accountant and sacking people who work for them. I did that under Gordon Brown, leaving the NHS and setting up a business instead, and have paid far less tax since. The combination of the tax I paid and the politics I had to stomach was too much.
One of many reasons why a Corbyn government would ruin the lives of those young people who elected him, but people would probably think it would be the Tories that follow him that are to blame because Corbyn would be long gone by the time the real hardship would start (e.g. 10% interest rates and inflation).
This is also very true.Lancasterclaret wrote:But the onus is on the current government to offer something for the young."
Let's ignore that I believe leaving the EU is offering something to the young by making them less dependant and more entrepreneurial (who simply don't realise it or believe that would benefit them).
The current Government did indeed make a Horlicks of it by not offering something. Tories should be low tax but couldn't even drive that advantage forward, and finding a way to cut tuition fees was crucial, in that they shouldn't have been implemented in the first place. Osborne and Hammond to blame for that, failing to recognise when a change in economic direction was necessary.
Re: McDonnell's Lies
This very awkward graphic suggests that Labour is still the party of the working classes (just).
The Male/Female disparity is interesting

The Male/Female disparity is interesting

Re: McDonnell's Lies
1. Many more young people have degrees compared with old people.
2. Many more young people voted Labour than old people.
3. Therefore, by definition, more people with degrees voted Labour. Stands to reason.
They could produce similar graphs showing, with even more certainty, that people who can run 100m in less than 20 seconds voted Labour. It doesn't mean that natural born sprinters are Labour voters' just that people who run faster tend to be younger.
2. Many more young people voted Labour than old people.
3. Therefore, by definition, more people with degrees voted Labour. Stands to reason.
They could produce similar graphs showing, with even more certainty, that people who can run 100m in less than 20 seconds voted Labour. It doesn't mean that natural born sprinters are Labour voters' just that people who run faster tend to be younger.
-
- Posts: 3891
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:15 am
- Been Liked: 1862 times
- Has Liked: 2716 times
- Location: Ashington, Northumberland
Re: McDonnell's Lies
All that your chart proves is that there are many more universities (so called) these days, therefore, more students are able to study for degrees, hence the younger end appear to be better educated because they have more degrees.UpTheBeehole wrote:Thick old people vote Conservative
As has been stated previously, many of the older age group did not have the choice or the chance to go to Uni and went out to work instead.
Statistics can be read whichever way you want them to fit your agenda.
This user liked this post: tiger76
-
- Posts: 7653
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1917 times
- Has Liked: 4254 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Except that those who would benefit from free tuition in future weren't old enough to vote.Damo wrote:The offer of free "tossing it off for three years at everyone else's expense" might just of skewed that a little.
This is why the Tories need to have a long hard look at themselves and their policies. The current 16 and 17 year olds will most likely be old enough to vote at the next election, and maybe 3 million EU citizens will have the right to vote too by then too. That's potentially 5 million votes up for grabs.
(Don't forget also that there's only been a majority Tory administration in Parliament for 2 years in the past 23, (a v slim majority too), and no majority at all in Scotland, Wales or Ireland.)
-
- Posts: 5069
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:14 pm
- Been Liked: 1157 times
- Has Liked: 496 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Survivial of the fittest dsr, the capitalist way.
Unfortunately for the Tories they're done for in 20 years or so, when their core support of Daily Mail/Express oldies shuffles off this mortal coil.
Unfortunately for the Tories they're done for in 20 years or so, when their core support of Daily Mail/Express oldies shuffles off this mortal coil.
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Did you out to work in Starbucks or McDonalds?
On zero hours contracts?
On zero hours contracts?
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Unfortunately for you, Beehole, what you don't know is that people change as they get older. Young people have always tended to be left wing, and on average as they get older, gravitate to the right wing. Cast you r mind back to the sixties - it wasn't a time of deep conservatism, was it? And yet those sixties children are the ones voting Tory now.UpTheBeehole wrote:Unfortunately for the Tories they're done for in 20 years or so, when their core support of Daily Mail/Express oldies shuffles off this mortal coil.
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Well I'm not !dsr wrote:Unfortunately for you, Beehole, what you don't know is that people change as they get older. Young people have always tended to be left wing, and on average as they get older, gravitate to the right wing. Cast you r mind back to the sixties - it wasn't a time of deep conservatism, was it? And yet those sixties children are the ones voting Tory now.
-
- Posts: 4751
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
- Been Liked: 953 times
- Has Liked: 238 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
This is not true, Labour announced an additional bribe that free tuition would be available from this september, totally uncosted.nil_desperandum wrote:Except that those who would benefit from free tuition in future weren't old enough to vote.
This is why the Tories need to have a long hard look at themselves and their policies. The current 16 and 17 year olds will most likely be old enough to vote at the next election, and maybe 3 million EU citizens will have the right to vote too by then too. That's potentially 5 million votes up for grabs.
(Don't forget also that there's only been a majority Tory administration in Parliament for 2 years in the past 23, (a v slim majority too), and no majority at all in Scotland, Wales or Ireland.)
-
- Posts: 7653
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1917 times
- Has Liked: 4254 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Why not look at the charts rather than making it up?dsr wrote: Cast you r mind back to the sixties - it wasn't a time of deep conservatism, was it? And yet those sixties children are the ones voting Tory now.
By children of the sixties, I assume you mean those born between about 1954 and 1965?
The stats show that something between 47 and 40% of this demographic voted Conservative in 2017, so not the majority that you seem to imply.
-
- Posts: 9064
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
- Been Liked: 3429 times
- Has Liked: 5646 times
- Location: Catterick N.Yorks
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Speaking as a parent of a 29 and a 31 year old, both who did very well at school, and the youngest at University, education over the last 40 years has been really dumbed down. Successive governments, in order to raise the pass rates, and improve SAT results, have made things far too easy. Learning the 3r's, learning by rote, calculating on paper or in your head. My children still ask me things today, that I can answer, and when they ask me how I know so much, it's because I learnt it at school, 40-50 years ago.
I don't blame pupils, or even the teachers, but government have made British kids some of the poorest performing in the world. Teaching in small groups within a single class, teaching at the speed of the slowest, course work, which negates the need to actually retain anything you may have 'learnt'.
Education aside I think the older generation grew up with a lot less, therefore your appreciation of what you did have was much higher. Mobile phones, computer games, TV , have all led to a group of kids who on a whole don't grasp that life is what YOU make it. They expect things to be laid out for them, when they need to get out there and make it for themselves. Society as a whole has let them down, but they don't always help themselves. It's easier to blame the older generation.
I don't blame pupils, or even the teachers, but government have made British kids some of the poorest performing in the world. Teaching in small groups within a single class, teaching at the speed of the slowest, course work, which negates the need to actually retain anything you may have 'learnt'.
Education aside I think the older generation grew up with a lot less, therefore your appreciation of what you did have was much higher. Mobile phones, computer games, TV , have all led to a group of kids who on a whole don't grasp that life is what YOU make it. They expect things to be laid out for them, when they need to get out there and make it for themselves. Society as a whole has let them down, but they don't always help themselves. It's easier to blame the older generation.
This user liked this post: tiger76
-
- Posts: 3603
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:10 am
- Been Liked: 1338 times
- Has Liked: 757 times
- Location: Nantwich
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Bolloxs. In 20 years the stupid left wing students will begin to realise that the good jobs they got from free University education will be taxed, taxed and taxed again. This, when they are trying to raise a family, will p!ss them off to the point they will start to realise that Labour is the death knell of aspiration. Look at the stats; the core of Labour support is the unemployed, unemployable, feckless, stupid and militant. The ones that grow up will move over to the Tories and Lib Dems.UpTheBeehole wrote:Survivial of the fittest dsr, the capitalist way.
Unfortunately for the Tories they're done for in 20 years or so, when their core support of Daily Mail/Express oldies shuffles off this mortal coil.
-
- Posts: 7653
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1917 times
- Has Liked: 4254 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Yes - for students "who start University this September".claretandy wrote:This is not true, Labour announced an additional bribe that free tuition would be available from this september, totally uncosted.
So as I said. It would affect very few people who actually voted. You would have had to become 18 between September 2016 and May 2017 and applying / applied to go to Uni this year in order to benefit, (unless of course, fair enough, you were going to Uni at an older age).
-
- Posts: 9064
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
- Been Liked: 3429 times
- Has Liked: 5646 times
- Location: Catterick N.Yorks
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Whilst I agree the students of today will have their eyes opened by the reality of making a home and raising a family, I don't believe it will be the death knell of the Labour Party. Rather the death knell of the left wing loons in charge.BennyD wrote:Bolloxs. In 20 years the stupid left wing students will begin to realise that the good jobs they got from free University education will be taxed, taxed and taxed again. This, when they are trying to raise a family, will p!ss them off to the point they will start to realise that Labour is the death knell of aspiration. Look at the stats; the core of Labour support is the unemployed, unemployable, feckless, stupid and militant. The ones that grow up will move over to the Tories and Lib Dems.
I pray Labour return to fight the centre ground, it's the only way they will get any lasting success, and the only way the country can go forward as a whole.
This user liked this post: Chip Harrison
Re: McDonnell's Lies
The promise was also made to those currently studying for their remaing terms.nil_desperandum wrote:Yes - for students "who start University this September".
So as I said. It would affect very few people who actually voted. You would have had to become 18 between September 2016 and May 2017 and applying / applied to go to Uni this year in order to benefit, (unless of course, fair enough, you were going to Uni at an older age).
-
- Posts: 3896
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:19 pm
- Been Liked: 1218 times
- Has Liked: 807 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
I wasn't.Colburn_Claret wrote:I fear for the young, they are idealistic. We all were at that age. They've yet to learn that ideals don't put food on the table, or that some politicians lie.
-
- Posts: 9811
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:45 pm
- Been Liked: 3226 times
- Has Liked: 10705 times
- Location: Staffordshire
Re: McDonnell's Lies
You lost your majority, get over it.
-
- Posts: 3896
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:19 pm
- Been Liked: 1218 times
- Has Liked: 807 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Honestly, I do this with UTB a lot, he isn't trolling here.Caballo wrote:Blatant fishing attempt, 2/10
-
- Posts: 10172
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
- Been Liked: 2411 times
- Has Liked: 3315 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't JC also promise that all debt for uni fees from previous years would also be cancelled?nil_desperandum wrote:Yes - for students "who start University this September".
So as I said. It would affect very few people who actually voted. You would have had to become 18 between September 2016 and May 2017 and applying / applied to go to Uni this year in order to benefit, (unless of course, fair enough, you were going to Uni at an older age).
It was an unusual offer from a socialist - grant free university education to the children of the better off - and those that will be better off for their 40+ years of their working life.
I can't remember if he said anything about limiting the number of uni places - which is how Scotland provides free uni places to some in Scotland.
-
- Posts: 7653
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1917 times
- Has Liked: 4254 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Hi Paul,Paul Waine wrote:Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't JC also promise that all debt for uni fees from previous years would also be cancelled?
I can't find anything in the manifesto or in the news that says this, or indeed anything in the manifesto that says free tuition would apply to current students - as has been asserted. This doesn't however mean that it wasn't said at some point by someone - and maybe even Corbyn. (It only means that I have looked and can't find anything!).
-
- Posts: 10172
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
- Been Liked: 2411 times
- Has Liked: 3315 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
If my memory is accurate it wasn't in the manifesto, but was added on in the last few days of the campaign - I guess when JC felt that people were "responding well" to the manifesto proposal.nil_desperandum wrote:Hi Paul,
I can't find anything in the manifesto or in the news that says this, or indeed anything in the manifesto that says free tuition would apply to current students - as has been asserted. This doesn't however mean that it wasn't said at some point by someone - and maybe even Corbyn. (It only means that I have looked and can't find anything!).
For "responding well" some people may like to read "pulling some more fruit from the money tree."
Remember, the only people who were going to pay for all JC's generosity were the top 5% of tax payers/wealth earners...
How long would that have lasted? And, how many of the students who would be happy to get free uni education would also aim to be among the "top 5%?"
Still general election was nearly 3 weeks ago...
Re: McDonnell's Lies
100% the offer was extended to those currently at uni, I can be so certain because I discussed it at length with my son who is currently 19 and finished his 1st year today.
-
- Posts: 7653
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1917 times
- Has Liked: 4254 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
As I said in my previous post, this may well be true, and I'm not suggesting you are making it up. It's just that no one so far has provided any quote or link to support it, and I have also googled it, so you can't blame me for not being aware of it until now.Caballo wrote:100% the offer was extended to those currently at uni, I can be so certain because I discussed it at length with my son who is currently 19 and finished his 1st year today.
(Incidentally I consider it completely wrong and immoral that your son is having to pay approx £9000 a year for something that I got free for 5 years in the 70s along with a maintenance grant and other benefits. I wish him well in his results and future career path).
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Thanks Nil, that's appreciated.
Incidentally he voted Labour but was always doing so. He's accepting of the current costs of uni and feels the 'sweetener' was squarely aimed at those doing media studies at Glyndwr, not at him (probably a bit of uni snobbery on his part to be honest).
Incidentally he voted Labour but was always doing so. He's accepting of the current costs of uni and feels the 'sweetener' was squarely aimed at those doing media studies at Glyndwr, not at him (probably a bit of uni snobbery on his part to be honest).
Last edited by Caballo on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 10172
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
- Been Liked: 2411 times
- Has Liked: 3315 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Hi nil_d, no criticism on my side for anyone who can or can't remember all the details of the GE campaigns. In fact, in my mind, we are better of forgetting them.nil_desperandum wrote:As I said in my previous post, this may well be true, and I'm not suggesting you are making it up. It's just that no one so far has provided any quote or link to support it, and I have also googled it, so you can't blame me for not being aware of it until now.
(Incidentally I consider it completely wrong and immoral that your son is having to pay approx £9000 a year for something that I got free for 5 years in the 70s along with a maintenance grant and other benefits. I wish him well in his results and future career path).
I'm not sure that it is "completely wrong and immoral" though I agree uni fees needs re-thinking. When you and I went to uni (I only did 3 years) there was less than 5% of the youth population at uni, today the figures are a lot, lot higher - are we over 40% now, or even as high as 50%?
I believe there are imbalances in the economy and that the younger generation are on the wrong side of some of these imbalances. On the other hand, the standard of living of the 18-35 age group are massively, massively, higher than the standard of living that the equivalent age group enjoyed 20 years earlier - and this cohort's standard of living will be higher over the next 20 years than the current equivalent age group is today. Provided, of course, that the economy is managed in a moderate manner.
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Actually I was thinking more of the "free love and flower power" generation. So about 10 years older.nil_desperandum wrote:Why not look at the charts rather than making it up?
By children of the sixties, I assume you mean those born between about 1954 and 1965?
The stats show that something between 47 and 40% of this demographic voted Conservative in 2017, so not the majority that you seem to imply.
-
- Posts: 3603
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:10 am
- Been Liked: 1338 times
- Has Liked: 757 times
- Location: Nantwich
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Apologies CC, you are correct. My post didn't read quite as I intended to write it; I meant to say that the rabid left wing are the death knell of aspiration and having Dustbin in charge would be a disaster of biblical proportions. Never has the phrase 'be careful what you for as you might just get it' rung truer for the 'younger' generation.Colburn_Claret wrote:Whilst I agree the students of today will have their eyes opened by the reality of making a home and raising a family, I don't believe it will be the death knell of the Labour Party. Rather the death knell of the left wing loons in charge.
I pray Labour return to fight the centre ground, it's the only way they will get any lasting success, and the only way the country can go forward as a whole.
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Benny, with the greatest respect you have to offer the young some way forward.
Its amazing that they have come out to vote, but if you don't want them voting for left wing policies, then they need to be enthused by something else.
No kids go "Oh wow! More austerity"
Its amazing that they have come out to vote, but if you don't want them voting for left wing policies, then they need to be enthused by something else.
No kids go "Oh wow! More austerity"
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Students will vote Corbyn wether they will directly benefit from his proposal or not. They will be sourounded by people in favour of free education for starters. Every single influence in their student life will be pro Corbyn. The lecturers. The student unions, the bars they frequent, the shops local to campus, the landlords, the restaurants, every single local business will directly benefit from an influx of students. They will no doubt feel empathy too for the people who follow them into a student life. This will too be seen as their revolution. Especially as he has dressed it up as such when appealing for their votes. Then take into account the young who didn't continue their studies. He promised them £10 per hour from the age of 16. Who wouldn't want to be paid that sort of money at that age when you have few outlays and no dependants. What they don't realise is, that decision to force employers to pay everyone that sort of basic wage will render the youth unemployable.
-
- Posts: 9064
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
- Been Liked: 3429 times
- Has Liked: 5646 times
- Location: Catterick N.Yorks
Re: McDonnell's Lies
If I offered free education, and everybody a 1000 reduction in taxes, the young would vote for me too.Lancasterclaret wrote:Benny, with the greatest respect you have to offer the young some way forward.
Its amazing that they have come out to vote, but if you don't want them voting for left wing policies, then they need to be enthused by something else.
No kids go "Oh wow! More austerity"
You and most people wouldn't because you know I couldn't deliver.
It's easy to make promises when you're not in power. It's easy to score points off the incumbents when you're in opposition. You don't need a position of your own, just point an accusing finger and sit back.
The reality hits if he ever gets in power, because although they might make a great sound bite, his policies will have a heavy price, and his polarisation of the British public would set the country back decades. A couple of years of sunshine isn't worth the pain to follow.
To make matters worse, he wouldn't even be bothered. He doesn't even like this country anyway. He'd hand the whole lot over to Putin at the drop of a hat.
This user liked this post: BennyD
-
- Posts: 7653
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1917 times
- Has Liked: 4254 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Corbyn didn't offer everyone a 1000 reduction in taxes, in fact the manifesto contained many plans for tax rises. It's more a question of whether you agree with who and what was going to be taxed and whether you think it would work, and result in a better and fairer society.Colburn_Claret wrote:If I offered free education, and everybody a 1000 reduction in taxes, the young would vote for me too.
You and most people wouldn't because you know I couldn't deliver.
.
There's actually much in Corbyn's manifesto, (though by no means all) that I agree with, but I do share concerns about whether sufficient tax could be raised from the highest earners, corporation tax etc.
However. One should always bear in mind that we are still in the top 10 wealthiest countries in the world, (and by some calculations the 5th) and that Britain's wealthiest 1,000 people now have a record total wealth of £658 billion, so the current poverty experienced by many as a result of austerity is in many eyes unacceptable.
It's also worth remembering that when the International banks collapsed, the govt found 100s of billions to bail them out - far more than the Labour party was proposing to spend if elected, and that we have squandered billions on unnecessary and costly wars.
Could Corbyn deliver? I doubt it, but many of his policies chimed with large sections of the electorate - and not just young people. Remarkably it would appear that there was significant support for Labour from the middle-classes, who presumably did not accept the inevitability of more austerity, privatisation and a continued diminution of public services.
Last edited by nil_desperandum on Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This user liked this post: keith1879
Re: McDonnell's Lies
Why is it wrong for Labour to target a section of our population with specific policies when the tories have spent years specifically targeting their policies at pensioners. They didn't do it this time round admittedly, but given the way it backfired so spectacularly it's the last time they won't.
-
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:15 am
- Been Liked: 18 times
- Has Liked: 15 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
But more importantly, is he a Claret? He studied at Burnley Technical College.
-
- Posts: 25697
- Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
- Been Liked: 4645 times
- Has Liked: 9849 times
- Location: Glasgow
Re: McDonnell's Lies
The problem is if you give 16 year olds £10 minimum wage,, what incentive do they have to upgrade their skills and experience and therefore prove to their employer they are worth re-training etc, when i started work in the mid 1990s, just before Blair's first government, i was earning 2.50 per hour, i left the said job after two years managed to get another job, which paid above the minimum wage and gave me more hours if i wanted,Blair incidentally created this problem, because he wanted many extra university places to keep the unemployment figures low leading to a 10 fold increase in students, i personally work with graduates who cannot find employment they should be qualified for e.g teaching jobs, and have to resort to manual labour work, their earnings would certainly be below 21,000 so they would not be liable to repay any outstanding loans so effectively they have had free education also.When about 5/10% of school leavers where going onto university, the free tuition fee policy may have been viable, with the present numbers it is not unless you make savings elsewhere like in Scotland, where college places have been slashed.Damo wrote:Students will vote Corbyn wether they will directly benefit from his proposal or not. They will be sourounded by people in favour of free education for starters. Every single influence in their student life will be pro Corbyn. The lecturers. The student unions, the bars they frequent, the shops local to campus, the landlords, the restaurants, every single local business will directly benefit from an influx of students. They will no doubt feel empathy too for the people who follow them into a student life. This will too be seen as their revolution. Especially as he has dressed it up as such when appealing for their votes. Then take into account the young who didn't continue their studies. He promised them £10 per hour from the age of 16. Who wouldn't want to be paid that sort of money at that age when you have few outlays and no dependants. What they don't realise is, that decision to force employers to pay everyone that sort of basic wage will render the youth unemployable.
-
- Posts: 9064
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
- Been Liked: 3429 times
- Has Liked: 5646 times
- Location: Catterick N.Yorks
Re: McDonnell's Lies
It was a tongue in cheek manifesto to highlight the fact that what you offer can be very different from what you deliver and if you do succeed and deliver the long term consequences could be disastrous.nil_desperandum wrote:Corbyn didn't offer everyone a 1000 reduction in taxes, in fact the manifesto contained many plans for tax rises. It's more a question of whether you agree with who and what was going to be taxed and whether you think it would work, and result in a better and fairer society.
There's actually much in Corbyn's manifesto, (though by no means all) that I agree with, but I do share concerns about whether sufficient tax could be raised from the highest earners, corporation tax etc.
However. One should always bear in mind that we are still in the top 10 wealthiest countries in the world, (and by some calculations the 5th) and that Britain's wealthiest 1,000 people now have a record total wealth of £658 billion, so the current poverty experienced by many as a result of austerity is in many eyes unacceptable.
It's also worth remembering that when the International banks collapsed, the govt found 100s of billions to bail them out - far more than the Labour party was proposing to spend if elected, and that we have squandered billions on unnecessary and costly wars.
Could Corbyn deliver? I doubt it, but many of his policies chimed with large sections of the electorate - and not just young people. Remarkably it would appear that there was significant support for Labour from the middle-classes, who presumably did not accept the inevitability of more austerity, privatisation and a continued diminution of public services.
-
- Posts: 3741
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:53 am
- Been Liked: 1694 times
- Has Liked: 193 times
- Location: Got a ticket from a mashed up bloke in Camden Town
Re: McDonnell's Lies
It is good to see that over 12 months later the far more intelligent people who voted remain still think telling anyone who voted leave they are thick works.
You would think with all this extra intelligence they have, that they would realise this attitude has helped them lose the brexit vote and also given them a government they didn't want. Hard to work out who the thickest is.
You would think with all this extra intelligence they have, that they would realise this attitude has helped them lose the brexit vote and also given them a government they didn't want. Hard to work out who the thickest is.
This user liked this post: LeadBelly
Re: McDonnell's Lies
You could pretty much turn this one round and note that the intelligent leavers still think that calling the stupid remainers thick will do any good at all. The only effect either way is to irritate people. Now of course if that is what we want to do then fine - but it kind of says something about the value of our arguments.claretdom wrote:It is good to see that over 12 months later the far more intelligent people who voted remain still think telling anyone who voted leave they are thick works.
You would think with all this extra intelligence they have, that they would realise this attitude has helped them lose the brexit vote and also given them a government they didn't want. Hard to work out who the thickest is.
Re: McDonnell's Lies
This is interesting, because Labour put together quite a detailed manifesto, and the Tories put out one without coatings and very low on specifics (indeed one policy was changed only days after it came out). To top this off Theresa May didn't go out meeting the public - the reason she gave for avoiding debates - and ran a negative campaign at Corbyn. It was really the Tories who pointed accusing fingers at Labour the whole time.Colburn_Claret wrote:If I offered free education, and everybody a 1000 reduction in taxes, the young would vote for me too.
You and most people wouldn't because you know I couldn't deliver.
It's easy to make promises when you're not in power. It's easy to score points off the incumbents when you're in opposition. You don't need a position of your own, just point an accusing finger and sit back.
The reality hits if he ever gets in power, because although they might make a great sound bite, his policies will have a heavy price, and his polarisation of the British public would set the country back decades. A couple of years of sunshine isn't worth the pain to follow.
To make matters worse, he wouldn't even be bothered. He doesn't even like this country anyway. He'd hand the whole lot over to Putin at the drop of a hat.
As for the rest of your nonsense about him not liking the country; going off the record I'd say he's a lot more patriotic than any Tory MP. It is the Tories after all who are content for our water, power, and railways to be owned by foreign companies. That will allow. China and France to run our nuclear industry. It's not patriotic to put the profits of foreign multinationals ahead of our own people. And it's certainly a weird kind of love of country when you look after only the richest and leave 90% of the population with reduced and crumbling services. Corbyn will be far better than what we have right now - a donkey-braying stand in for a PM surrounded by idiots.
These 2 users liked this post: SonofPog whereeaglesfly
-
- Posts: 2894
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:21 am
- Been Liked: 1863 times
- Has Liked: 3251 times
Re: McDonnell's Lies
It's pretty obvious why young people today are cheesed off at the generation (which includes me..I'm 56) that did all right then pulled up the drawbridge.Dsr states " it took the combined wage of a chartered accountant and a teacher to be able to buy a Colne terraced house - and that was without running a car, that came later still".....well where I live that terraced house now costs a minimum £475,000 and is completely out of range for any young couple who don't have a fat Bank of Mum and Dad helping them. That was certainly not the case 30 or 40 years ago but arose because of an uncontrolled free market boom in the 80s and 90s which led to a minority becoming richer and richer whilst the majority either got left behind or tried to keep up via a credit boom ending in a crisis and a long-term austerity "solution" . Bye bye decent pensions, Farewell subsidised education to give you more of a chance in life and Toodle-pip affordable housing because those who were sitting down when the music stopped in 2008 have ensured the price - wage ratio has carried on spiralling as they pass their wealth on.
-
- Posts: 2551
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:29 pm
- Been Liked: 605 times
- Has Liked: 346 times
- Location: Hertfordshire
Re: McDonnell's Lies
You only 56 ?Stalbansclaret wrote:It's pretty obvious why young people today are cheesed off at the generation (which includes me..I'm 56) that did all right then pulled up the drawbridge.Dsr states " it took the combined wage of a chartered accountant and a teacher to be able to buy a Colne terraced house - and that was without running a car, that came later still".....well where I live that terraced house now costs a minimum £475,000 and is completely out of range for any young couple who don't have a fat Bank of Mum and Dad helping them. That was certainly not the case 30 or 40 years ago but arose because of an uncontrolled free market boom in the 80s and 90s which led to a minority becoming richer and richer whilst the majority either got left behind or tried to keep up via a credit boom ending in a crisis and a long-term austerity "solution" . Bye bye decent pensions, Farewell subsidised education to give you more of a chance in life and Toodle-pip affordable housing because those who were sitting down when the music stopped in 2008 have ensured the price - wage ratio has carried on spiralling as they pass their wealth on.

This user liked this post: Stalbansclaret