Soft Brexit defeated

[claretandy]

MP's vote 322 v 101 against soft brexit, even Ken Clarke !

[Blackrod]

Where's the 'can't they vote again ?' Brigade ?

[Right_winger]

there's no such thing as a hard and soft brexit anyway. It was just the libtards way of subverting the referendum
Result.

[Sidney1st]

Always amusing how it was named as one of the other before negotiations even properly began.

[Bin Ont Turf]

I always thought that hard Brexit was something to do with them mucky videos that I've never watched.

[hampsteadclaret]

There'll be some fun later, with some of these 'amendments'..eg - abortion.

[Devils_Advocate]

there's no such thing as a hard and soft brexit anyway. It was just the libtards way of subverting the referendum
Result.

You are dead right the terms we should be using are a bad Brexit or a disastrous Brexit.

Its gonna be bad on whatever terms we leave on but you small minded Billy Britain numskulls who are scared of your own shadow are pushing for complete disaster whilst the majority of us now want at the very least to do a damage limitation exercise

[HatfieldClaret]

I can't possibly understand why anyone would want to stop those from Ulster coming to Britain for terminations, even for free. The holier than thou brigade in NI should be ashamed of themselves.

[claretandy]

Jezza has sacked 5 shadow ministers for voting to stay in the single market, good strong leadership from Jezza, crush the saboteurs

[Imploding Turtle]

there's no such thing as a hard and soft brexit anyway. It was just the libtards way of subverting the referendum
Result.

Then perhaps your side shouldn't have campaigned on the promise that we can keep access to the single market in order to secure Leave votes.

Funny how you're OK when it's your side that is lying. It's reminiscent of those across the Atlantic who are OK with Russia interfering in an election as long as it's on their side. You have no integrity.

[Right_winger]

You are dead right the terms we should be using are a bad Brexit or a disastrous Brexit.

Its gonna be bad on whatever terms we leave on but you small minded Billy Britain numskulls who are scared of your own shadow are pushing for complete disaster whilst the majority of us now want at the very least to do a damage limitation exercise

No that's your opinion Of which your are in the minority.

We are either leaving the corrupt union who rob us blind and dictate the terms of our lives or we carry being raped and pillaged at every turn.

Thankfully it's the former voted for by the majority of people. You might want to research what majority means as you clearly fail to understand it.

[Imploding Turtle]

Jezza has sacked 5 shadow ministers for voting to stay in the single market, good strong leadership from Jezza, crush the saboteurs

Where'd you read that?

[Lowbankclaret]

Really grates on me the soft and hard brexit. No such thing.
We voted to regain control of our laws and borders.

That means we cannot have access to the single market with out paying for it in some way.

I really struggle with people who did not understand that. Its pretty simple.

[Devils_Advocate]

Thankfully it's the former voted for by the majority of people. You might want to research what majority means as you clearly fail to understand it.

Only 52% voted to leave when it was a just a basic Stay or Leave vote. Even if we ignore that a lot of people felt misled over the leave campaign its a fair assumption that over 2% of those leave voters were not voting for what has been termed (badly as we have both agreed) a hard Brexit and thus the majority isnt in your sorry camp

[Imploding Turtle]

Only 52% voted to leave when it was a just a basic Stay or Leave vote. Even if we ignore that a lot of people felt misled over the leave campaign its a fair assumption that over 2% of those leave voters were not voting for what has been termed (badly as we have both agreed) a hard Brexit and thus the majority isnt in your sorry camp

He doesn't give a ****. He likes likes that push policies he likes, especially if they work. There' no point engaging in hypocrites and liars like him.

[Lowbankclaret]

Current polls have put the Percentage of people who would now vote out at over 60%. no doubt thats due the the apocalpse not happening we were told would

[Imploding Turtle]

Really grates on me the soft and hard brexit. No such thing.
We voted to regain control of our laws and borders.

That means we cannot have access to the single market with out paying for it in some way.

I really struggle with people who did not understand that. Its pretty simple.

We already have control of our laws and borders. Just because your stupid Tory government doesn't want to implement those laws and controls doesn't mean we don't already have them.

[Imploding Turtle]

Current polls have put the Percentage of people who would now vote out at over 60%. no doubt thats due the the apocalpse not happening we were told would

You're going to need to cite such a poll otherwise you're just talking bullshit.

[Lowbankclaret]

No we do not, we have to adopt every EU law and we have free movement of EU nationals.

I dont vote tory and never have.

You seem to not understand some basics.

[claretandy]

Where'd you read that?

3 sacked, 2 resigned before the vote.

[Quickenthetempo]

We already have control of our laws and borders. Just because your stupid Tory government doesn't want to implement those laws and controls doesn't mean we don't already have them.

Labour held areas had massive Leave votes.

[ClaretMoffitt]

3 sacked, 2 resigned before the vote.

He genuinely does remind me of a communist totalitarian

[aggi]

No we do not, we have to adopt every EU law and we have free movement of EU nationals.

I dont vote tory and never have.

You seem to not understand some basics.

Do you know what free movement means though?

Basically you're allowed three months of what people picture as "Freedom of Movement" in a country. After that you need Sufficient resources not to be a burden on the benefit system of the country. If you're jobless without savings then the country can kick you out, regardless of being an EU national. The UK doesn't bother implementing this though as the belief is that the administration would be too costly.

We can veto EU laws in these areas:
Common Foreign and Security Policy (with the exception of certain clearly defined cases which require qualified majority, e.g. Appointment of a special representative)
Citizenship – the granting of new rights to EU citizens
New EU membership
Harmonisation of national legislation on indirect taxation
EU finances (own resources, the multiannual financial framework)
Certain provisions in the field of justice and home affairs (the European prosecutor, family law, operational police cooperation, etc.)
Harmonisation of national legislation in the field of social security and social protection.

Others, as you say, we have to put up with.

[joey13]

Didn't Mayhem say we were having a red,white, and blue Brexit

[aggi]

On a separate note, it was never going to pass. It was a strange amendment from Chuka Umunna that mainly served to get his name out there and flag himself up as a potential replacement for Corbyn.

[Holmeclaret]

Brexit has to come because the majority voted for it. However, the vote was undeniably close and the result of the last election might suggest that a significant portion of the population are nervous about the future, particularly as the purpose of it was supposed to be a vote of confidence in May's hard Brexit stance.
We are admired worldwide for our ability to hammer out a compromise but this seems to be disappearing fast.
If we get a hard Brexit, that's what we get, but if some aspects of operation fear turn out to be true, I trust that hard Brexiteers will accept a portion of the blame.

[Sidney1st]

We already have control of our laws and borders. Just because your stupid Tory government doesn't want to implement those laws and controls doesn't mean we don't already have them.

Just following on from the stupid Labour one that chucked the doors wide open.

[Imploding Turtle]

Just following on from the stupid Labour one that chucked the doors wide open.

So you accept that we already have control of our laws and borders.

[Imploding Turtle]

He genuinely does remind me of a communist totalitarian

Yeah, because the Tories would never sack someone from their cabinet or shadow cabinet for disobeying a voting instruction.

[Sidney1st]

I've never stated otherwise have I?

For whatever reason, Labour decided they wanted as many people as possible to wander over here.
The Tories seem to have ignored the fact they could control this flow of people to a degree.

I just found it odd you labelled the Tories stupid when it was Labour who started it.

[Imploding Turtle]

I've never stated otherwise have I?

For whatever reason, Labour decided they wanted as many people as possible to wander over here.
The Tories seem to have ignored the fact they could control this flow of people to a degree.

I just found it odd you labelled the Tories stupid when it was Labour who started it.

I labelled them stupid because they could already do the things they claim we had to leave the EU to do. It's not odd at all when you understand it.

[Sidney1st]

So we can label Labour stupid too?

Just to be fair.

[JohnMcGreal]

We are either leaving the corrupt union who rob us blind and dictate the terms of our lives or we carry being raped and pillaged at every turn.

I didn't know we were leaving the United Kingdom...

[Sidney1st]

The Scots will be when Sturgeon gets her own way.

[Imploding Turtle]

No that's your opinion Of which your are in the minority.

We are either leaving the corrupt union who rob us blind and dictate the terms of our lives or we carry being raped and pillaged at every turn.

Thankfully it's the former voted for by the majority of people. You might want to research what majority means as you clearly fail to understand it.

In what way are we being raped and pillaged by the EU?

[Imploding Turtle]

The Scots will be when Sturgeon gets her own way.

It won't be her own way though, will it? It'll be with majority support of those who vote. And apparently a tiny majority is enough to make such a permanent and irreversible decision.

[Sidney1st]

It will be her way though, she's making the most noise about it, or was until she almost got her arse handed to her in the election.

Seems to have shut her up about it for a while thankfully.

[Imploding Turtle]

It will be her way though, she's making the most noise about it, or was until she almost got her arse handed to her in the election.

Seems to have shut her up about it for a while thankfully.

So when it's about leaving the EU it's a democratic decision and the will of the people, but when it's Scotland leaving the UK it's "Sturgeon's own way". Do you even care about this double standard? Right winger wouldn't, but then he's a hypocrite. Are you?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Yeah, because the Tories would never sack someone from their cabinet or shadow cabinet for disobeying a voting instruction.

Its not even just that, it's the way he clinged on to power when almost all his party wanted him out as well.

[Paul Waine]

I read a report in the Times on Tuesday, 27th June. Defying gravity: was Treasury’s Brexit analysis too pessimistic?
Dr Graham Gudgin, Chief Economic Adviser at the Policy Exchange think tank

The Policy Exchange press release, which accompanied the report is quoted below.

The full report is available here: http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publication/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll let you guys read and make your own minds up. No other comment from me.

Defying Gravity: A critique of estimates of the economic impact of Brexit
Jun 26, 2017

The models used to assess the economic impact of Brexit were misleading, according to new analysis published today by Policy Exchange. At the time, the projections made by the Treasury, OECD and IMF were used by the then government and Remain campaign to argue that the British economy would face a significant and permanent loss of income in the event of a vote to leave. A careful analysis of the gravity trade economic models used to generate these pessimistic projections suggests that the impact of Brexit on our economy will be much less significant than the economic consensus constructed at the time of the referendum.

Dr Graham Gudgin, Policy Exchange’s new Chief Economics Adviser and the co-author of the report, said:

“As we start formal negotiations to leave the European Union, now is a good time to reflect on the predictions which suggested that the British economy would collapse immediately in the event of a Brexit vote.”

“The forecasts for the impact of Brexit on international trade undertaken by the Treasury, OECD and IMF were based on ‘gravity models’, which predict the amount of trade between countries based on account factors like the size of trading economies and the distance between them. We have replicated the Treasury’s gravity model results and examined them in detail and we believe that they were overly pessimistic.”

“The Treasury’s models did not take into account that not all economies are created equal and the UK is a significantly larger and stronger economy than many of the smaller countries which were given equal weight in the model. We therefore estimated an alternative gravity equation based on data for the 60 largest UK export partners, which account for close to 100% of UK exports and include all 28 EU members. The result is that the measured impact of EU membership on goods trade for all EU countries on average falls from 115% to 90%.”

“Most important is the fact that the Treasury and OECD estimated the average potential trade loss across all 28 EU members, and did not take into account that the UK has a very different trade relationship with the EU. In our analysis the estimated loss of UK trade is only 23%. This is consistent with the declining importance of the EU in UK trade over the last 20 years.  The overall conclusion is that the effect of leaving the EU on economic growth, while negative, will be small, and any associated knock-on impacts will similarly not be large.”

“We concluded that the gravity model approach lacks the degree of precision needed to make a definitive estimate of the impact of EU membership on trade. In particular, estimates need to focus on the UK itself if they are to have relevance to the Brexit negotiations. A smaller economic impact is in line with our view that the small average external tariff of the EU, together with the fact that most UK firms are already compliant with EU regulations, will mean that the impact will be more limited than the Treasury estimated.”

[Imploding Turtle]

Its not even just that, it's the way he clinged on to power when almost all his party wanted him out as well.

Ah, so Brexit must be enacted because a majority voted for it, but a majority voting for Corbyn (twice) to be leader should be ignored because some other people said so.

When are these double-standards going to end?

[Damo]

IMG_20170629_192025.jpg (194.98 KiB) Viewed 4568 times

[Imploding Turtle]

IMG_20170629_192025.jpg

Drink it. Please.

[Paul Waine]

[quote="Imploding Turtle"]So when it's about leaving the EU it's a democratic decision and the will of the people, but when it's Scotland leaving the UK it's "Sturgeon's own way". Do you even care about this double standard? Right winger wouldn't, but then he's a hypocrite. Are you?[/quote

Hi IT, didn't the Scottish people vote to stay in the UK in 2014? And, hasn't Nicola Sturgeon concluded that the outcome of the recent (UK) General Election in Scottish constituencies means that the SNP would lose a new IndyRef vote if it was held anytime soon?

[Imploding Turtle]

They did vote to stay. They also elected the SNP to power in Scotland last year with the manifesto promise of another independence referendum if Scotland was being taken out of the EU against its will. I'm getting a little bit bored of having to explain this.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Its not even just that, it's the way he clinged on to power when almost all his party wanted him out as well.

Didn't his own party vote for him unanimously? Twice?

[Imploding Turtle]

Didn't his own party vote for him in a landslide? Twice?

Fixed your post.

[Lancasterclaret]

It doesn't really matter what the vote or what it was about.

TM took to the country to get her "red, white and blue brexit" which was (correctly) interpreted as a "Hard Brexit" (ie leaving with no deal)

She lost her majority.

They know they have to come out with something from the negotiations that satisfies business and a whole host of other factors.

Most people now understand that. Most.

And what aggi said above is 100% correct, but not used correctly by the govt.

[Sidney1st]

So when it's about leaving the EU it's a democratic decision and the will of the people, but when it's Scotland leaving the UK it's "Sturgeon's own way". Do you even care about this double standard? Right winger wouldn't, but then he's a hypocrite. Are you?

Eh?

Both will be democratic decisions you moron, I merely stated Sturgeon is desperate for Scottish independence and makes the most noise about it.

[Imploding Turtle]

Eh?

Both will be democratic decisions you moron, I merely stated Sturgeon is desperate for Scottish independence and makes the most noise about it.

It has been SNP policy to push for independence long before Sturgeon became First Minister.