50 years since decriminalisation of homosexuality

[Spijed]

Just shows what a backward country we were back then.

How could so many hate gay people simply because they wanted to have a relationship with someone of the same sex?

[Imploding Turtle]

Because humans are *****.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Just shows what a backward country we were back then.

How could so many hate gay people simply because they wanted to have a relationship with someone of the same sex?

Certain sections of our society still do.

[Hipper]

[quote="Imploding Turtle"]Because humans are *****.[/quot'e]

'......... some humans are *******'

[Greenmile]

#notallhumans

[Sidney1st]

Just shows what a backward country we were back then.

How could so many hate gay people simply because they wanted to have a relationship with someone of the same sex?

That's what happens when society is guided by religion, despite homosexuality being an act that's older than most of the current batch of religions....

[LeadBelly]

There are still quite a few places on earth where the death penalty is seen as the correct punishment and even more where long term (even life) imprisonment is the penalty.
UK is amongst the most liberal.

Germany just voted the other week to allow same-sex marriage although the good Frau Doktor Merkel was seen to vote against it.

[Blackrod]

Some people with religious beliefs don't agree with it and that is up to them. People hold different views. People should be allowed to do what they want behind closed doors. If we had all been gay historically the human race would have stopped so I'm sure it wasn't intended that way.

[Sidney1st]

Intended that way or not, it's been around longer than Christianity and Islam, the 2 religions which protest against it the most.

It's a bit sad that 2 people can't be with each other in certain parts of the world simply due to religious beliefs.

[Flatline]

God protested against it way before Christianity and Islam.

[Lord Beamish]

God protested against it way before Christianity and Islam.

He should have maybe designed a better beast then.

[Sidney1st]

God protested against it way before Christianity and Islam.

Which God?

It was common amongst the ancient Greeks and they had several gods....
Same with the Egyptians, who also had more than one god...

So which God decided two people couldn't be together?

It was the Abrahamic religions which decided it should be a punishable act.

That's Islam, Christianity and Judaism in case you aren't sure.

[Flatline]

Which God?

It was common amongst the ancient Greeks and they had several gods....
Same with the Egyptians, who also had more than one god...

So which God decided two people couldn't be together?

It was the Abrahamic religions which decided it should be a punishable act.

That's Islam, Christianity and Judaism in case you aren't sure.

The one God before all three of those religions just in case you're not sure.
The other gods are the fallen angels.

[Sidney1st]

The one God before all three of those religions just in case you're not sure.
The other gods are the fallen angels.

That's about as vague as you can make it

There have been hundreds, if not thousands of man made gods over tens of thousands of years, spread right across the globe...

Homosexuality only became an issue when the 3 Abrahamic religions rocked up and decided it was an issue, no one cared before then.

[ClaretAndJew]

Who made god?

[Sidney1st]

Which one?
There's been so many across tens of thousands of years you'll need to narrow down which particular god you're talking about.

That's why people like me say god is a man made idea.

[Blackrod]

Threads like this are designed to prompt a response that someone else can recoil in horror at. People have different views and sometimes moderate views and cannot be pigeon holed into an extreme view one way or another. I'm not keen on gay adoption of children personally but I don't care what people do with each other in their own homes if they both consent.

[Rileybobs]

Who made god?

God's mum and dad.

[Siddo]

That's what happens when society is guided by religion, despite homosexuality being an act that's older than most of the current batch of religions....

How many skinhead ed homophobes do you think are religious.

How many people at work who regularly make snide remarks about shirt lifters have been to church recently.

Why are catholic countries leading the way in LGBT recognition and support.

[JohnMcGreal]

.....

[JohnMcGreal]

People should be allowed to do what they want behind closed doors.

I don't care what people do with each other in their own homes

Why should gay people restrict their love to the confinement of their own homes? What's wrong with living their lives in the open?

[CoolClaret]

How many skinhead ed homophobes do you think are religious.

How many people at work who regularly make snide remarks about shirt lifters have been to church recently.

Why are catholic countries leading the way in LGBT recognition and support.

To cling on to a being as relevant as possible.

[Lord Beamish]

How many skinhead ed homophobes do you think are religious.

How many people at work who regularly make snide remarks about shirt lifters have been to church recently.

Why are catholic countries leading the way in LGBT recognition and support.

Atonement for multiple past indiscretions and trespasses?

[nil_desperandum]

I think it would be misguided to turn this into a thread about religious beliefs and practices. There's always been far more to prejudice based on sexuality than simply religion.

[Lord Beamish]

I think it would be misguided to turn this into a thread about religious beliefs and practices. There's always been far more to prejudice based on sexuality than simply religion.

It's always been fairly obvious that non-religious antipathy towards Homosexual has roots that are attached to cultural religion. They are a throwback to when most people believed in the Sky Fairy and the magic incantations in his Book.
Any efforts at conciliation by Christian Churches now are nothing more than firefighting a conflagration that they started.
And that whole 'Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin' rings hollow too. How on earth does it bear close scrutiny when the Sin in question is not to do something but to be something?

[Rowls]

Just shows what a backward country we were back then.

How could so many hate gay people simply because they wanted to have a relationship with someone of the same sex?

Quick point of order: 50 years since decriminalisation of specific sexual acts.

In 50 years time there will be something routine that we all agree upon now which our grandchildren etc will regard as "backward" or inhumane.

[Imploding Turtle]

Quick point of order: 50 years since decriminalisation of specific sexual acts.

In 50 years time there will be something routine that we all agree upon now which our grandchildren etc will regard as "backward" or inhumane.

Probably the demonisation of poor people and immigrants.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

As long as it doesn't become compulsory !

[Rowls]

Probably the demonisation of poor people and immigrants.

I think more likely it will be stuffing old people into death factories and calling them "care homes".

No people ever chose mass immigration, especially from people unlike their own. Looking after your own though, should be a duty.

[Imploding Turtle]

I think more likely it will be stuffing old people into death factories and calling them "care homes".

No people ever chose mass immigration, especially from people unlike their own. Looking after your own though, should be a duty.

Those immigrants are our own. The history of the human race is a timeline from division towards indivision. In the future we'll be more enlightened when dealing with our fellow man who happens to be from somewhere else. History shows that.

[RingoMcCartney]

Quick point of order: 50 years since decriminalisation of specific sexual acts.

In 50 years time there will be something routine that we all agree upon now which our grandchildren etc will regard as "backward" or inhumane.

It will be the current demonisation of everyday people, who are concerned about uncontrolled mass immigration.

[Sidney1st]

How many skinhead ed homophobes do you think are religious.

How many people at work who regularly make snide remarks about shirt lifters have been to church recently.

Why are catholic countries leading the way in LGBT recognition and support.

How about 2k yrs of conditioning to hate LBGT people?
If generations of your family went to church and were told being gay was a sin, this ultimately gets passed down the line.

Same when its incorporated into law.
Old habits die hard.

[Rowls]

Those immigrants are our own.

No I don't think you understand where the line is drawn. They are not British. Most of them struggle to integrate into our society. A number of them actively dislike or hate our liberal, secular society.

That's enough though now. Have an intelligent day turtle.

[TractorFace]

No I don't think you understand where the line is drawn. They are not British.

Says someone who puts their location down as Montpellier, France. Banging on about immigrants while living abroad as an immigrant. You couldn't make this stuff up.

[HelloHiGoodbye]

Quick point of order: 50 years since decriminalisation of specific sexual acts.

In 50 years time there will be something routine that we all agree upon now which our grandchildren etc will regard as "backward" or inhumane.

Eating meat.

[tim_noone]

Why should gay people restrict their love to the confinement of their own homes? What's wrong with living their lives in the open?

I like to think I'm open minded,but once went to sitiges near or on the costa brava.we left faster than we arrived! Not for me I'm afraid.

[Sidney1st]

Eating meat.

Nothing wrong with that.

[Rowls]

You couldn't make this stuff up.

[Rowls]

It's always been fairly obvious that non-religious antipathy towards Homosexual has roots that are attached to cultural religion.

Massive assumption here Beamish. It's a chicken and egg situation and you've taken a decisive side here.

[Sidney1st]

No I don't think you understand where the line is drawn. They are not British.

Says someone who puts their location down as Montpellier, France. Banging on about immigrants while living abroad as an immigrant. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Rowls point which you missed out referred to poor integration.

Then there is the matter of work, language barriers, housing and the benefits they'd need/expect if they aren't working.
Their customs will also be different to ours, which is fine generally, but FGM is one of those barbaric things that have been appearing more frequently over here now as a result.

[elwaclaret]

Those immigrants are our own. The history of the human race is a timeline from division towards indivision. In the future we'll be more enlightened when dealing with our fellow man who happens to be from somewhere else. History shows that.

Western History shows that, to a point. Politicians love events like pride they divert attention from real issues. Western society will wane and die like those of history as someone else quoted Egyptians - how liberal are they now? Romans - the far right have the upper hand despite their lessons with Mussolini, Even the communist experiment failed because there is always another empire, another Stalin, Hitler, Khan or Alexander on the horizon.

Liberalism assumes everyone wants the same thing, despotism relies on liberalism to gain control. The lesson is repeated throughout history.

[Sidney1st]

Massive assumption here Beamish. It's a chicken and egg situation and you've taken a decisive side here.

Not really.

Homosexuality wasn't an issue until the appearance of the 3 Abrahamic religions, specifically Christianity and Islam.

Those 2 then set about telling the world it was a sin because they decided it was and should be stamped out.
It was common in places like South America until the Catholics rocked up and put a stop to it.
Same with the Mediterranean, Africa, Middle east.

No one cared about it until specific religions put a stop to it.

Beamish took a decisive side because its the correct side.
2k years of social conditioning against homosexuality is bound to reach non religious people, especially when it was illegal until what you could call recently and its still illegal in various places around the world.

[elwaclaret]

But by definition homosexuality is only an issue now because homosexuals and liberals make it an issue. I really don't get this whole pride thing. No more than I would be interested in a Heterosexual pride march. What someone choses to do with their life is up to them, I just don't see the need to "celebrate it" it is what it is. Alexander lost his edge when his gay lover died, one of the great Samurai emperors did committed suicide when his favourate died in battle at the height of his power - but they didn't parade around the streets with rainbow flags.

[Sidney1st]

"what someone does with their life is up to them"

That would be correct, but considering that homosexuality has been oppressed for 2k years its hardly a surprise they want to show some pride in who they are.

Alexandre the Great was well before Christianity was created, so he could sleep with whoever he liked.
As for the Samurai Emperor was that before or after a middle eastern religion reached their islands?

[elwaclaret]

"what someone does with their life is up to them"

That would be correct, but considering that homosexuality has been oppressed for 2k years its hardly a surprise they want to show some pride in who they are.

Alexandre the Great was well before Christianity was created, so he could sleep with whoever he liked.
As for the Samurai Emperor was that before or after a middle eastern religion reached their islands?

Sorry I was vague with the Emperor deliberately as it is not my specialised period. I can tell you it was one of the last two or three standing in the war to unify Japan under one Shogan. If that helps

[Sidney1st]

I had a quick look after your comment and Christianity wasn't a big deal over there yet, although Westerners were making appearances.

Japan has had its own main religion for about 3k yrs and Buddhism is its 2nd religion.
Christianity or Islam aren't a big deal over there, but I'm still reading up on the reasons why homosexuality was oppressed over there.

[Hipper]

Not really.

Homosexuality wasn't an issue until the appearance of the 3 Abrahamic religions, specifically Christianity and Islam.

What evidence is there for this? I'm aware that Greek men, at least the higher classes of Greek men, liked 'young boys' - Plato writing about love is talking of the love of young boys. But civilisations before this? I recall that there were places that punished homosexual activity but can't recall where.

[Hipper]

Those immigrants are our own. The history of the human race is a timeline from division towards indivision. In the future we'll be more enlightened when dealing with our fellow man who happens to be from somewhere else. History shows that.

You have an optimistic view of the future. I don't!

I see a still rapidly increasing population (nearly trebled in my lifetime, albeit the increase is slowing down), and because of this, major environmental damage, the destruction and loss of resources and wars as a result, and the movement of people wanting a better life.

We talk about correcting these things but we don't actually do much to deal with them and most of us don't really want to.

Anti immigration is about not wanting to share our good fortune with others. There are surely very few people who will accept a reduction in their standard of living in order to accommodate others.

[Blackrod]

The pride thing is about ramming it down your throat. Everybody will like this and if they don't they are barbaric old fashioned and a fascist. I'm not interested in either a heterosexual or gay march. I know people who have many gay friends and others that are repulsed by them. People are entitled to their own views either way.

[Sidney1st]

The Greeks and romans didn't have much of an issue with it.
Same with other classical civilisations.

The South Americans didn't have much of an issue either prior to the arrival of the Catholics.

Not all civilisations approved of it, but it wasn't massively frowned upon prior to the creation of the Abrahamic religions, specifically Christianity and Islam.

It can't be a coincidence that the Bibles and Koran refer to Sodom & Gomorrah and all 3 religions view homosexuality as a sin, whilst most other religions are rarely settled on an opinion either way.

Even the Karma Sutra mentions it originally and that's older than Christianity, although later versions of the Karma Sutra were influenced by Christian colonists, unsurprisingly.

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