Jack Cork

MarkGreen · Post by **MarkGreen** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:44 am

Top Claret wrote:and they finished below us in the league

FAKE NEWS: ... They finished above us

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:49 am

If we have agreed a price seemingly so quickly the I'd suspect it's because we want to get our business, or the majority of it, done before too many silly deals go through and really inflate the market. (As well as getting the players bonded as quickly as possible)

Here's hoping that this goes through in the next day or two....

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:54 am

claretspice wrote:£10 million seems quite steep, but as ever these things involve lots of add-ons and other fees and given that as Dom has pointed out he can certainly be classed as a first team regular at Swansea, perhaps something like £6 million rising to £10 million is a fair price.

£4m in add ons seems very heavy! That's almost 40% of the overall fee (if the £10m+ fee is correct). Add ons usually make up 20% of the fee max.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:00 am

What % of add ons would you say we paid for Gray

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:01 am

Its great that we've moved on to arguing about add ons, rather than the lack of signings.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:04 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its great that we've moved on to arguing about add ons, rather than the lack of signings.

I am waiting for us to be linked to a goalkeeper and a winger and I will have an a fully underwhelmed 11 from on here. Although I don't think I am likely to see a player linked with us who won't underwhelm somone.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:07 am

Aye, the fact that the best left back in the championship, an established premier league striker and an established premier league midfielder have signed or are on the verge of signing appears to have not registered with some.

We might not agree with the signings, but the fact that we are there or thereabouts already shows how far we have come.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:09 am

They only paid 3m for him, he has 1 year left on his contract so I'd say 5m plus add ons would be a fair price.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:09 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:but the fact that we are there or thereabouts already shows how far we have come.

I hate that phrase but it's true

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:11 am

claretandy wrote:They only paid 3m for him, he has 1 year left on his contract so I'd say 5m plus add ons would be a fair price.

Would that be ok if we had sold Keane using that guide and also if we sell Gray ? It becomes hard if you judge players with other deals.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:12 am

claretdom wrote:What % of add ons would you say we paid for Gray

Sounds like it was 25-30%...which is unusually heavy for add ons.

Slightly different though as Gray's previous clubs were invloved in the deal with sell ons. Can't imagine Saints or Chelsea have much of a sell on with Cork.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:13 am

claretandy wrote:They only paid 3m for him, he has 1 year left on his contract so I'd say 5m plus add ons would be a fair price.

I'd say 2m would be a fairer price, on the assumption there's something in this rumour.
Not sure how old he was when they signed him but he's 28 now so will likely be a fast depreciating asset, but probably not quite as fast as Glen Whelan...

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:20 am

I'll join in

Anything more than £1 million and we've been ripped off.

They don't want him. In fact, they should pay us to take him off their hands.

Andingle · Post by **Andingle** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:25 am

Can't agree , dont think they will pay us what he's not worth , move on

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:27 am

They paid £8 million for Cork didn't they?

Either way £10 million plus add ons for a bloke who was also their captain at time last season is a bargain.

Les latcham fan club · Post by **Les latcham fan club** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:38 am

My Swansea fan at work thinks this will happen to free up funds given the huge wage and signing on fee Roque Mesa's agent managed to secure, Swansea if GS goes too will have to splash the cash. Cork is apparently out of favour with Clement. This is from a 30 year season ticket holder who eats and breaths the Swans and pulls sickies to see them train!!!
10 Mill seems steep to me but in dyche we trust.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:38 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Aye, the fact that the best left back in the championship, an established premier league striker and an established premier league midfielder have signed or are on the verge of signing appears to have not registered with some.

We might not agree with the signings, but the fact that we are there or thereabouts already shows how far we have come.

Just to be picky, I think Ryan Sessegnon was voted as the best left back in the division, last season.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:42 am

No probs, but he was wanted by established premier league clubs.

We are in a good place, and I just wish more people realised that.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:44 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Aye, the fact that the best left back in the championship, an established premier league striker and an established premier league midfielder have signed or are on the verge of signing appears to have not registered with some.

We might not agree with the signings, but the fact that we are there or thereabouts already shows how far we have come.

Well said .

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:54 am

claretandy wrote:They only paid 3m for him, he has 1 year left on his contract so I'd say 5m plus add ons would be a fair price.

Look at how fees were at the time they signed him

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:58 am

If Hendrik was worth 10 mil and Brady was worth 13 mil then Cork is a bargain at 10 mil

ashtonlongsider · Post by **ashtonlongsider** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:01 pm

If we are really interested in bringing Cork back at £10m we really must have money to burn IMO.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:02 pm

DCWat wrote:Just to be picky, I think Ryan Sessegnon was voted as the best left back in the division, last season.

Sessegnon played as a wide midfielder rather than a left back last season.... at least he did I everytime I watched him with my then gf (who is a season ticket holder at Fulham!).

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:03 pm

Why is £10 million steep, could someone explain??

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:05 pm

ashtonlongsider wrote:If we are really interested in bringing Cork back at £10m we really must have money to burn IMO.

We do. Keep up.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:13 pm

We have just sold Keane for the best part of 30m. This is very clever business by the club imo. We use the Keane money to bulk up the squad with some experienced campaigners and use our initial budget to bring in our key targets.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:20 pm

How is Cork not good business at £10m given some of the transfers going through at the moment. For example, how many games has Will Hughes played? He's just gone for £8m. We paid upward of £10m similar for Hendrick last year as well. Yes it's true that Cork might not go up in value but that's not really the point with this signing. Get him on a 4 year deal and we have him for his prime years at the very least. He's a terrific player who I suspect will suit Dyche down to the ground!

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:21 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:We have just sold Keane for the best part of 30m. This is very clever business by the club imo. We use the Keane money to bulk up the squad with some experienced campaigners and use our initial budget to bring in our key targets.

Whoa whoa whoa. Sounding like far too much common sense being spoken there.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:21 pm

We spend a lot of time with our midfield shielding the defence, so who better to buy than someone excellent at positioning themselves, intercepting passes, retaining the ball and playing a tidy pass out wide to get us going again?

Not the kind of attributes I expect Swansea fans to note, but one that I bet many managers do.

Besides, Jack is yet another diamond that we seem to make a habit of enticing to our club. He is in my top three of footballers I enjoy having a chat with, whereas most of them I wouldn't even be in the same postcode as. That matters to me.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:30 pm

Just one point re Hughes, Brady and Hendrick. All are a good few years younger than Cork and have chance to improve. I'd suggest that Cork is probably at his peak right now and isn't likely to further improve.

Fee wise, I think there's more potential value in the likes of the three names mentioned, than Cork.

northernpowerhouse · Post by **northernpowerhouse** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:30 pm

I'd be very happy with this. Solid player and an upgrade on Westwood. There were even a few rumours of him making the England squad back when he was at Southampton.

ashtonlongsider · Post by **ashtonlongsider** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:32 pm

Rileybobs wrote:We do. Keep up.

I can assure you Rileybobs I am keeping up. Must be my age but I like a sense of realism. I know at times this is difficult in the PL. I just wouldn't like my beloved club to go the way of some of the supposed big clubs now trading their wares in the Championship or the likes of Bradford who don't seem to have recovered from their tIme in the PL. The way things are going it's only a matter of time before one of the established PL clubs goes bust. £10m for a potential bench warmer at Swansea does't represent good business in my view. Thanks for the goal at Preston Corky but lets move on.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:41 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:Sounds like it was 25-30%...which is unusually heavy for add ons.

Slightly different though as Gray's previous clubs were invloved in the deal with sell ons. Can't imagine Saints or Chelsea have much of a sell on with Cork.

I don't agree at all that 20% is the normal amount for add ons, I'm afraid.

As I understand it, there are different types of add-ons, some reported in the initial fee, some not. So its quite common for a fee to include a significant additional payment if a team stays up or goes up (as our agreement with Brentford re: Gray did - something like 3 million over an initial 6 million fee, which I make to be more than 25-30%). But there are also additional fees depending on appearances and/or goals, etc. which can significantly defer some payments. These can total up to a very significant proportion of the fee.

We don't have a Scooby doo what the proposal is for Cork - it could easily be that 50% or more or it could be a lot less - so I'd advise that anyone seeing the 10 million figure treat it with extreme caution, bearing in mind we're not known for overpaying.

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:00 pm

He signs monday

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:02 pm

ashtonlongsider wrote:I can assure you Rileybobs I am keeping up. Must be my age but I like a sense of realism. I know at times this is difficult in the PL. I just wouldn't like my beloved club to go the way of some of the supposed big clubs now trading their wares in the Championship or the likes of Bradford who don't seem to have recovered from their tIme in the PL. The way things are going it's only a matter of time before one of the established PL clubs goes bust. £10m for a potential bench warmer at Swansea does't represent good business in my view. Thanks for the goal at Preston Corky but lets move on.

30 appearances last season.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:04 pm

If (big if) the £10m fee for Cork is correct, even if it is partially made up of add-ons, it seems like a lot of money to pay for a player of Cork's age & ability. Likewise the £3m (or up to £3m) for Walters. Of course, the market is what the market is - but if does make me wonder why we don't seem to make more of an effort to make the European market work for us. I'd be amazed if we couldn't get more for £13m by shopping outside of this country.

That's not to say they're bad signings or that they won't add something to our squad, just questioning whether they represent the best possible use of our comparatively limited resources.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:04 pm

DCWat wrote:Just one point re Hughes, Brady and Hendrick. All are a good few years younger than Cork and have chance to improve. I'd suggest that Cork is probably at his peak right now and isn't likely to further improve.

Fee wise, I think there's more potential value in the likes of the three names mentioned, than Cork.

I agree with your comments but surely the reason he's valued at £10m is because he's in his prime. He won't go for more than that again but sometimes you need to spend money on the here and now rather than future potential. Cork is straight into our first team and I assume he'd take the number four shirt vacated by Flanagan.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:04 pm

ashtonlongsider wrote:
The way things are going it's only a matter of time before one of the established PL clubs goes bust. £10m for a potential bench warmer at Swansea does't represent good business in my view.

Some people seem to think that if this line gets repeated enough it will happen. They have been saying it for nearly 20 years but the spending continues apace. My grandad used to say it and he passed away 18 years ago.

AGENT_CLARET · Post by **AGENT_CLARET** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:08 pm

He's In Burnley this morning, he was driving a black range rover, I hope this deal will happen late today or tuesday we are starting to build a better team for next season.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:11 pm

jlup1980 wrote:I agree with your comments but surely the reason he's valued at £10m is because he's in his prime. He won't go for more than that again but sometimes you need to spend money on the here and now rather than future potential. Cork is straight into our first team and I assume he'd take the number four shirt vacated by Flanagan.

Yes, I think you do, and there is logic in signing a player that is experienced in the Premier League.

I know that transfer fees are at silly levels but I'm sure that we could be getting better value, be that abroad or by looking at younger players (a bit of a risk I admit).

What I don't want to see is a team full of experienced pros. I want us to be looking at players (as well as) that we can turn a profit on. Yes, we have mega bucks now, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be looking to the future as well - such as we've done with Keane, Mee, Trippier and Taylor just recently.

Experienced players have their place at Burnley, I'm not disputing that, but lets open up the market place and see if we can get some better value.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:14 pm

Bacchus wrote:If (big if) the £10m fee for Cork is correct, even if it is partially made up of add-ons, it seems like a lot of money to pay for a player of Cork's age & ability. Likewise the £3m (or up to £3m) for Walters. Of course, the market is what the market is - but if does make me wonder why we don't seem to make more of an effort to make the European market work for us. I'd be amazed if we couldn't get more for £13m by shopping outside of this country.

That's not to say they're bad signings or that they won't add something to our squad, just questioning whether they represent the best possible use of our comparatively limited resources.

i think we'd like to get the european market to work for us but its likely that its something we're still building towards.

i suspect its partially to do with trying to avoid the second season syndrome thing.

10m for cork and £3m for walters do seem a lot but what you're getting is a lot of premier league experience which will be vital as we attempt to transition from newcomers to establishing ourselves.

both players are a known quantity whereas no matter who you buy from europe, its more of a gamble. next season is likely to be more of a battle and more difficult than last season was so players who know their way around this league will count for a lot.

signing a few players like this along with a couple with something to prove - either making a step up or from another country - will encourage steady progress. not getting ahead of ourselves whilst making sure we have the qualities to stay up is key.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:19 pm

It seems a little excessive to me, but if the main man wants him and we get him for that much then that'll do for me.

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:21 pm

Nixon saying we're interested but not at that price. Swansea looking to auction with at least 1 other party interested.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:24 pm

If we really want to keep Sean Dyche then we have to allow him to continue spending some of the money that he as won us through his fantastic management of our club.

Sean's not reckless and I doubt the board would allow him to go out of control anyhow.

If Sean wants Jack Cork he is available and we can afford what Swansea want then go and get him.

Too many experts on here, That Jon Walters medical video should tell us we all know next to **** all about running a football club and valuing and signing players.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:24 pm

Pearcey wrote:Nixon saying we're interested but not at that price. Swansea looking to auction with at least 1 other party interested.

Got caught out with this one though did Nixon - while everyone was talking Cork, he was talking Whelan.

The suggestions are that the fee, if we were to sign him, could rise to £10 million.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:25 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:i think we'd like to get the european market to work for us but its likely that its something we're still building towards.

i suspect its partially to do with trying to avoid the second season syndrome thing.

10m for cork and £3m for walters do seem a lot but what you're getting is a lot of premier league experience which will be vital as we attempt to transition from newcomers to establishing ourselves.

both players are a known quantity whereas no matter who you buy from europe, its more of a gamble. next season is likely to be more of a battle and more difficult than last season was so players who know their way around this league will count for a lot.

signing a few players like this along with a couple with something to prove - either making a step up or from another country - will encourage steady progress. not getting ahead of ourselves whilst making sure we have the qualities to stay up is key.

I understand that, and agree to a point. I guess what none of us knows is what the budget is - it could be that within the context of our budget these fees aren't as extravagant as they first appear to be. My concern is that we end up spending most of out budget on players that might marginally improve us because we're too risk averse to take a chance on players who might really take us forward.

Either way, it still amazes me that we (about to enter our 4th Premier League season) have still not managed to make a single signing from outside the UK that can be considered to be a resounding success. Given the spiralling cost of fairly average players in this country that's something that surely needs to be addressed with some urgency.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:25 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:Too many experts on here, That Jon Walters medical video should tell us we all know next to **** all about running a football club and valuing and signing players.

Spot on - and the medical video was a real eye opener

claretdj · Post by **claretdj** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:26 pm

£10m? Walk away bfc, I would rather have Leroy Fer than Jack cork for that money.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:26 pm

I did like Nixon's comment when we were selling Keane and he claimed Burnley are already looking to spend. Nothing gets past him.

Although when asked on who he has problems seeing his screen and was unable to reply with any names

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:27 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:If we really want to keep Sean Dyche then we have to allow him to continue spending some of the money that he as won us through his fantastic management of our club.

Sean's not reckless and I doubt the board would allow him to go out of control anyhow.

If Sean wants Jack Cork he is available and we can afford what Swansea want then go and get him.

Too many experts on here, That Jon Walters medical video should tell us we all know next to **** all about running a football club and valuing and signing players.

There are no experts on here, just fans of the club with opinions, that you're entitled to agree or disagree with. A night with the lads in a pub would be pretty quiet if we couldn't have our say on targets, transfers, fees and the like.