Kev McDonald 7m

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:02 pm

Just been on twitter and loads of Forest fans are asking Nixon who they have lined up. One asked about a midfielder and he said if you want McDonald (which I think they do) then he will cost 7m.

Is that about the right price in todays market or does it prove he has had a decent career after leaving us?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:04 pm

He has had a decent career since leaving us

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:05 pm

Decent as in solidly average.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:08 pm

He's forged himself a solid career in the championship after a good spell at Sheff Utd in league one.

He could end up in the PL.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:13 pm

'...He could end up in the PL...'

that's where he was when he went wandering at half-time against Citea!

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:14 pm

The way McDonald was hung out to dry by Brian Laws was disgusting.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:19 pm

When?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:20 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:The way McDonald was hung out to dry by Brian Laws was disgusting.

What was he supposed to do? He at least brought him back into the squad and he did get a couple of substitute appearances. Eddie Howe soon banished him. At the CM evening with Howe he told us he was going to a club that McDonald considered below where he should be. He went to Scunthorpe and they sent him back. I don't think his family helped to be honest and they were there that day of the City game. At St. Johnstone for the pre-season friendly a few months earlier they were escorted out of the ground by the police.

Good on him to have re-established himself in the Championship, which he has clearly done. But to blame Laws for anything is a nonsense. Having said that, Blake was the one who cleared off with him and didn't come back.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:25 pm

The City game, obviously. The problem that game wasn't the young Scottish lad in midfield, it was the lottery winner in the dugout.

Joey Gudjonsson nailed it about him:

"He (Laws) lost the dressing room long ago.
"I think all the players have lost faith in him, the performances say all that has to be said."

"This shows that the guys do not believe in what he is doing."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Laws.html

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:30 pm

This will be the Gudjonsson I assume who totally showed himself up by playing in a reserve game with a hat on at Wigan.

Bad appointment he might have been but some of the players were a total disgrace once Coyle had gone and they didn't get their own way all the time.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:32 pm

Maybe if the players did get their own way we might have stayed up that season. They probably had more idea of how to win than Laws.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:37 pm

I wrongly assumed everyone knew the players downed tools after Coyle left.
There's a reason Howe had a clear out when he took over.

Yes Laws was the wrong man for the job, but he wasn't helped by senior players.

The same senior players certain people on here decided Howe couldn't manage because they were older than him.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:39 pm

I'd be close to downing tools if the successful boss of my business was replaced by a guy who got sacked from his last job at a crap firm, just because he was mates with the owner.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:41 pm

You don't get sacked from B&M Bargains and end up running Harrods.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:47 pm

So he got the job by being mates with Kilby??

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:48 pm

Without Thompson, Carlisle and Alexander we'd have never made it to the Premier League in the first place. If Laws couldn't handle winners, that's his problem.

mealdeal · Post by **mealdeal** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:49 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I wrongly assumed everyone knew the players downed tools after Coyle left.
There's a reason Howe had a clear out when he took over.

Yes Laws was the wrong man for the job, but he wasn't helped by senior players.

The same senior players certain people on here decided Howe couldn't manage because they were older than him.

You do well to remember all that, given you were a Liverpool fan back in 2009/10

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:53 pm

mealdeal wrote:You do well to remember all that, given you were a Liverpool fan back in 2009/10

I have a good memory, better than others it would appear.
I'm impressed some people are still bitter about that.

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:54 pm

I've got it on a hard drive somewhere, but I'm pretty sure that during the City home game, the camera zooms in on Laws after we'd gone 0-3 down and behind him in the dug out Clarke Carlisle is basically laughing is cock off.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:55 pm

dushanbe wrote:I've got it on a hard drive somewhere, but I'm pretty sure that during the City home game, the camera zooms in on Laws after we'd gone 0-3 down and behind him in the dug out Clarke Carlisle is basically laughing is cock off.

Wouldn't be at all surprised

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:56 pm

The senior players were outstanding that promotion season, but if we're all honest the prem was a step too far for most of them. Within a year of being relegated most of them were all playing at a level lower than Championship.

Laws wasn't good enough, but neither were the players at the end of the day.

mealdeal · Post by **mealdeal** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:59 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I have a good memory, better than others it would appear.
I'm impressed some people are still bitter about that.

Its not bitterness, I'm impressed you can speak with authority on matters that you can't have been paying much attention to.

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Wouldn't be at all surprised

I'll see if I can dig it out. It could be my memory playing tricks on me.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:What was he supposed to do? He at least brought him back into the squad and he did get a couple of substitute appearances. Eddie Howe soon banished him. At the CM evening with Howe he told us he was going to a club that McDonald considered below where he should be. He went to Scunthorpe and they sent him back. I don't think his family helped to be honest and they were there that day of the City game. At St. Johnstone for the pre-season friendly a few months earlier they were escorted out of the ground by the police.

Good on him to have re-established himself in the Championship, which he has clearly done. But to blame Laws for anything is a nonsense. Having said that, Blake was the one who cleared off with him and didn't come back.

Don't I know it Tony , they were sat behind me and my then 10 year old daughter, I understand when you go to football you should expect to hear some bad language, but this was appalling, I had words with them , which they didn't like and then they never appeared for the second half , the rest as they say is history.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:04 pm

I don't care how useless they thought their manager was, for professional footballers to down tools like they did was a disgrace. They were cheating the fans who paid good money to support them.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:05 pm

McDonald preferred to be in the 110 club.

That's how much id be prapared to pay for him.

£1.10.....

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:06 pm

ClaretTony - Where do you believe the blame lies? I mean in Alexander we had a player I always believed to be a consummate pro. Playing wise Carlisle was very much the same with regards keeping himself fit and Thompson is still playing though not at a great level. It shows though that they were grown men and looked after themselves.

Was the problem that they went from having a manager who wanted to be their best friend to a manager who wanted structure and a disciplined approach?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:07 pm

mealdeal wrote:Its not bitterness, I'm impressed you can speak with authority on matters that you can't have been paying much attention to.

So I sat there watching the game and not paying attention to it or anything that's happened since ?
It's been spoken about enough times that its easy enough to piece together, its simply a case of reading it and remembering, not difficult.

Ok, weird opinion you've got.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:12 pm

Give it five years, and people will believe that the only reason we didn't win the champions league under Laws was the players.

No one came out of that period well, but JFW.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:20 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Was the problem that they went from having a manager who wanted to be their best friend to a manager who wanted structure and a disciplined approach?

I honestly think so. Coyle had a different approach to most managers. He quickly banished some of the players he thought he wouldn't be mates with - such as Gray and Lafferty - and then the team spirit was, I'm told, brilliant. Duff said at a testimonial event that they must have been the most unprofessional team to ever win promotion with no pre-match planning and having Krispy Kreme competitions on a Friday. But it worked, it worked so well it took us into the Premier League and everyone was happy.

Then we replaced him with managers completely different who wanted some discipline and they didn't seem to like it and, from what I'm told, didn't fully support the managers. Duff said they didn't give him a chance and that continued initially with Howe but he was strong enough to get rid. Not for one minute do I think Laws approached it as best he could, but the players have to take a lot of responsibility.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:30 pm

We were on the downward slope before Horseface jumped ship. Laws had no chance, but I doubt any other manager could have done much better.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:33 pm

The 'downward slope' under Coyle was 3 wins from 16.

We ended last season with 2 wins from 16.

Some people will not say however that last season ended on a downward slope.

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:33 pm

boatshed bill wrote:We were on the downward slope before Horseface jumped ship. Laws had no chance, but I doubt any other manager could have done much better.

It was always going to be a struggle, but we weren't that bad. Someone else could have kept us up.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:40 pm

Loads of skill but the heart of a gerbil
In these crazy times he is worth whatever anyone will pay for him.
I for one will never forgive him for going off to the pub at half time in the City game.Anyone who let's his club .fans and himself down deserves all ridicule he gets

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:44 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:The 'downward slope' under Coyle was 3 wins from 16.

We ended last season with 2 wins from 16.

Some people will not say however that last season ended on a downward slope.

I would.

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:53 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Give it five years, and people will believe that the only reason we didn't win the champions league under Laws was the players.

No one came out of that period well, but JFW.

JFW ?

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:55 pm

gawthorpe_view wrote:JFW ?

Think its either jesus f***ing wept or judas f***ing wa*ker

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:56 pm

Foshiznik wrote:It was always going to be a struggle, but we weren't that bad. Someone else could have kept us up.

Someone else was not available, the other name being quoted was Paul Ince.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:59 pm

levraiclaret wrote:Someone else was not available, the other name being quoted was Paul Ince.

The other name available won the Europa League 16 months later, as well as a league and cup double. Oh well.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:06 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:The other name available won the Europa League 16 months later, as well as a league and cup double. Oh well.

Shouldn't believe what you read - the other name available was still at Doncaster 16 months later

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:08 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:Loads of skill but the heart of a gerbil
In these crazy times he is worth whatever anyone will pay for him.
I for one will never forgive him for going off to the pub at half time in the City game.Anyone who let's his club .fans and himself down deserves all ridicule he gets

I do wonder why fans get so hot under the collar of Kev going the 110 club at half time. He went to see his family who were down for the day and drank Orange.
He had been subbed so could have no bearing on the game.

Most managers want players who are not involved in the game out of the way from the squad as they're more hinderence than help.

Do players watch games when injured or stay away? Would they be at Brighton away on a Tuesday night for team moral?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:10 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I do wonder why fans get so hot under the collar of Kev going the 110 club at half time. He went to see his family who were down for the day and drank Orange.
He had been subbed so could have no bearing on the game.

Most managers want players who are not involved in the game out of the way from the squad as they're more hinderence than help.

Do players watch games when injured or stay away? Would they be at Brighton away on a Tuesday night for team moral?

He wasn't out injured - he'd played the first half (maybe not played, but he'd been on the pitch)

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:10 pm

Sounds like 3 sets of people to blame for the debacle after Coyle left, then:

1. The board that appointed a manager whose methods were completely unsuited to succeeding the previous manager, who they would/should have known was so popular with the players and at a time when continuity ought to have been paramount;

2. The manager (and perhaps also his staff), for clearly completely failing to enter the job with the intention of winning over the players, and for being inflexible in his approach at a time when flexibility was essential;

3. The players, for failing to do their best, irrespective of their personal antipathy for the manager.

But that's the order of blame, for me - in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, the only conclusion is that the players (although no doubt sceptical of the appointment in the first place), took a dislike to him because of the way he started out in the job. Laws should never have been appointed if his intention was to be a disciplinarian. And he shouldn't have been so inflexible - he should have worked with the grain of the players he had at the time. There were some good characters at the core of that squad - Steve Caldwell, Duff, Wade Elliott and others - and Laws didn't do anything like enough to win them over.

As for McDonald, when looking for scapegoats at half time in an utter debacle, withdrawing a young kid making one of his first appearances for you is a bit crass. We weren't going to win that game at 5-0 down, and McDonald wasn't the worst player on the pitch. So to single out the kid was indicative of the poor judgment Laws showed throughout his tenure.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:13 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I honestly think so. Coyle had a different approach to most managers. He quickly banished some of the players he thought he wouldn't be mates with - such as Gray and Lafferty - and then the team spirit was, I'm told, brilliant. Duff said at a testimonial event that they must have been the most unprofessional team to ever win promotion with no pre-match planning and having Krispy Kreme competitions on a Friday. But it worked, it worked so well it took us into the Premier League and everyone was happy.

Then we replaced him with managers completely different who wanted some discipline and they didn't seem to like it and, from what I'm told, didn't fully support the managers. Duff said they didn't give him a chance and that continued initially with Howe but he was strong enough to get rid. Not for one minute do I think Laws approached it as best he could, but the players have to take a lot of responsibility.

This thread has made me look back at Laws Tenure. When I actually looked at the signings I was surprised at what good business he actually did though is always slated for the Cort signing. He obviously signed Cort more for his influence he hoped he would have on the dressing room, this didn't work out but looking at his signings he hardly made a mistake in my opinion.

Nimani - never got a chance to see, loan and with little chance to prepare he couldn't be blamed, probably a signing he had in mind when at Wednesday.

Weaver - Good backup, after rewatching the City 6-1 defeat I forgot just how awful Jensen had become.

Fox - Again believe he might of had him in mind for Wednesday. Good player on his day, just a step too far in the Prem

Marney - Words cant describe what a good signing he has been

Grant - Very good Goalkeeper

Wallace - Another good servant

Iwelumo - Probably brought in much like Cort with the dressing room influence playing heavily on Laws mind. A signing for him much like Johnrose, Jepson were for Ternant.

Cork - Unsure where he is now

Guidetti - Very good player but probably a year or two too early to be at a club as toxic as ours was at the time.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:19 pm

ClaretTony wrote:He wasn't out injured - he'd played the first half (maybe not played, but he'd been on the pitch)

Yeah I know but he couldn't have any influence on the game after being subbed. A bit like an injured player.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:21 pm

I'm surprised to hear Steve Thompson was one of the rebels, I had always been told you could not meet a nicer bloke.

Following OC must have been the worst possible scenario for Brian Laws. Remember Laws served under Mr Miller - he didn't suffer fools when it came to the football field, Martin Dobson Ditto' ; and then had a long career under Clough who ruled like the almighty I hear at Forest.

I continue to have a lot of time for Brian Laws, (arguably given Ward) the best right back I've watched live for Burnley. He was class.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:25 pm

We had a championship squad of players and a couple of League One / Championship managers.

You can pick the bones out of getting relegated all day, but it's hardly a mystery. The 2008/9 season is a stranger one.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:29 pm

Nimani - Can't blame him as it was Coyles signing. I was told this weekend he got fined for being late to an away game and running across the tracks at Preston train station, which he was arrested for.

Weaver - Bit like Robbo signing.

Fox - Looked the part but always seemed to make an error for our goals or the one outjumped etc. Very good in the championship for us.

Marney - Great signing

Grant - Very good at times with a great last season, error stricken for too long previously.

Wallace - Very talented but you always felt he could give a bit more.

Iwelumo - I thought he was a very good signing and we got shut at the right time. If only his legs were fit.

Cork - Brilliant signing

Guidetti - Underwhelming for us

Cort - just about sums Laws time up with us.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:30 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I do wonder why fans get so hot under the collar of Kev going the 110 club at half time. He went to see his family who were down for the day and drank Orange.
He had been subbed so could have no bearing on the game.

Most managers want players who are not involved in the game out of the way from the squad as they're more hinderence than help.

Do players watch games when injured or stay away? Would they be at Brighton away on a Tuesday night for team moral?

Are you serious? A professional footballer being paid several thousand pounds a week cant sit on the bench like is protocol just because his family are visiting. He could have waited 2 hours, yes 2 hours to see them. Was he drinking orange as I had heard he was drinking pints and laughing at Burnley players on the TV with his family. Maybe this is wrong but it is what I had heard.

If a player was injured I would think that the medical staff would not want said player sitting on a coach for potentially 12 hours in a day. With most footballers injuries being leg related sat on a coach would do more harm than good. Home games you will find most of the Burnley players that are out injured sat together

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:32 pm

[quote="Quickenthetempo"]Nimani - Can't blame him as it was Coyles signing. I was told this weekend he got fined for being late to an away game and running across the tracks at Preston train station, which he was arrested for.

Never heard that but that is absolutely class if true