Centre Back Speculation

[ralph]

I'm intrigued as to your views on this bonus system that seems to feature large on your horizon of gloom ...please tell me all about it ..

[ablueclaret]

The Bumpkin thinks we have had to spend considerable amounts of money at the end of each season because of bonuses which means that money is lost for recruitment, not rocket science Ralph.

[Bordeauxclaret]

What are these bonuses paid for?

[ralph]

The Bumpkin thinks we have had to spend considerable amounts of money at the end of each season because of bonuses which means that money is lost for recruitment, not rocket science Ralph.

Not rocket science and not correct either...I'll ask you again when did the bonus system kick in and how many points did the team win afterwards .. ?

[ralph]

What are these bonuses paid for?

achieving X amount of points for example or during a Championship season maintaing a certain position in the table

[ralph]

The Bumpkin thinks we have had to spend considerable amounts of money at the end of each season because of bonuses which means that money is lost for recruitment, not rocket science Ralph.

I'll make it easy for you abc sometimes on these kind of boards you will encounter people from Burnley who do actually know a few things .. like really know .. this is one of those times.

[ablueclaret]

The mechanism is irrelevant Ralph.
If no bonuses have been paid please inform us all.

[Bordeauxclaret]

achieving X amount of points for example or during a Championship season maintaing a certain position in the table

So in other words we are paying out money for being successful.

[ralph]

So in other words we are paying out money for being successful.

Yes entirely normal I'd have said

[ralph]

The mechanism is irrelevant Ralph.
If no bonuses have been paid please inform us all.

I didn't say that I was asking you and I'll ask again how they were calculated to cause this black hole you perceive in the transfer kitty

The mechanism is completely relevant to your argument because the mechanism defines the amount or can you not comprehend that ?

Eg: any business may pay a ££ bonus on reaching a target .. yes ? So what was the target and how many points above it do you imagine we finished to cause this problem with funds that you mentioned ??

[ablueclaret]

You are obviously the fount of knowledge on this Ralph so give us the figure involved so that we can all be enlightened, even the Bumpkins amongst us.

[ralph]

You are obviously the fount of knowledge on this Ralph so give us the figure involved so that we can all be enlightened, even the Bumpkins amongst us.

Why ? It is none of your business .. what has the staff bonus structure got to do with you ?

Would you walk into a shop in town and demand to know the staff's bonus structure ?

I'm not about to be goaded into figures on an open message board but I have VERY GOOD reason to believe that your comments on bonus payments affecting the transfer kitty are indeed drivel

[ralph]

It is August 1st let the club get on with it ...conversation done.

[Quickenthetempo]

A fit Smalling would be a step up from Keane for me.

Keane could well keep improving and go beyond Smalling but at this time I would take Smalling any day of the week.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Keane'#s replacement was signed 18 months ago. And if Burnley aren't making efforts to sign expensive centre halves, it means the club thinks Tarkowski is still the replacement, and it's Tarkowski's place on the bench that needs filling.

That can't be seen in anyone's eyes as good enough for a club in our present position though.

We need a centre back in because we've lost Keane. We need one who is to be seen as good enough to be going straight into the team. Whether he does or not is another matter.

I still think we'll have one in before the end of the transfer window, so I'm not going to get all Ablue about it.

[Tall Paul]

You have to stay up if you buy those type of players otherwise they become an albatross around your neck financially.
The best method is to have young players vying for first team places, it's a tried and tested formula.
It's the young players Ings Trippier Mee Keane Gray who have made our recent sides dynamic, that is what youth provides, energy and new thinking.

Tried and tested when?

Four of those five young players were signed (and the other one only really broke through into the first team) in the Championship, where we could afford to give them time to develop. We're preparing for another relegation battle in the PL so we need players who are good enough now.

[mohamed69]

Taylor starts at CB...maybe a bad sign

[piston broke]

It's the young players Ings Trippier Mee Keane Gray who have made our recent sides dynamic, that is what youth provides, energy and new thinking.

Ings=£1m, Trips, Mee, Keane all initially on loan to a Championship side and Gray a proven Championship scorer when we were in the Championship.
We are playing with the big boys now and they are not looking to help you out.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Taylor starts at CB...maybe a bad sign

Or Dyche making a point.

[mohamed69]

Or Dyche making a point.

Hopefully! Like playing tarky and O'Neill at CM vs chelsea last year

[lovebeingaclaret]

We always have a lot of money to splash out before making any purchases it is a problem.

Don't worry about it abc, none of the money will be yours.

[ablueclaret]

Money never interested me lbc.

[lovebeingaclaret]

You are obviously the fount of knowledge on this Ralph so give us the figure involved so that we can all be enlightened, even the Bumpkins amongst us.

Erm I think he was asking you the question abc.

[lovebeingaclaret]

Money never interested me lbc.

Well when it comes to supporting burnley that is obvious.

[DCWat]

95% of the Premier League don't have a CB as good as Keane

75% at a push and you'd be right but 95%

[boatshed bill]

I'm sure we are looking for a decent centre back if we can get one. Charlie Taylor has just done 45mins partnering Kevin Long in the middle, this clearly is not a serious pairing at PL standard.

[Bullabill]

.


"Buying Cork at 28 is buying a player in their prime. What exactly is the problem with that?"

The problem with that is that our language is being distorted, bent, and twisted beyond all common sense. Why not 'a player in HIS prime' ...??

[Jambounchained]

I think we're waiting for Dawson at WBA.

They're being link with a few centre backs so might let him leave when they get one or two.

[Lancasterclaret]

My only problem with waiting for Dawson is that we've been here before with WBA.

We can't rely on them getting who they want as they didn't manage it last season either with their targets so we need a back up plan.

[Jambounchained]

Zouma would've been a decent one to try for but I'm not sure if we've burnt our bridges with Chelsea now anyway.

[billyhamilton82]

"My only problem with waiting for Dawson is that we've been here before with WBA.

We can't rely on them getting who they want as they didn't manage it last season either with their targets so we need a back up plan."

That's how it seems to work these days as you are relying on others to trigger the market and most of the process is out of your hands its more like buying a house relying on the chain.

You obviously want the house you have set your heart on but you have other viable options lined up just in case and if you have ever bought a house we all know patience is key.

We want to be as proactive as possible but the process in the main is reactive.

Its a volatile mix of greedy agents, desperate managers, stressed chairmen, confused players, patience and lots and lots of money.

[cricketfieldclarets]

There's talk of Smalling...

seen that. Cant imagine we have a chance but he would more than replace Keane

[claretspice]

Said before, I'm fairly relaxed about Tarkowski partnering Mee in substitution for Keane. Bluntly, non of us have seen enough of Tarkowski to know whether he's up to scratch, but Dyche has and has made it clear that he rates Tarks highly. That will do for me.

He might not be everything Keane was, but then he doesn't particularly need to be. As someone else pointed out, Keane had more gifts than the centre backs at the disposal of 75% of the Premier League, but the main attribute that Keane has that Tarks doesn't is pace, and perhaps with that an ability to defend 1v1 that most centre backs lack. But WBA finished 10th without any real pace at the back last season.

We simply didn't use Keane's pace or 1v1 abilities very much because our set up protect our centre backs incredibly well. Perhaps we'll have to focus on that even more this season, perhaps sit slightly deeper, but with the sort of athleticism Cork and Hendrick give us in midfield that shouldn't be that big a deal.

Were I am concerned, though, is in our back up options. Tarks strikes me as someone who could use a talker with premier league experience alongside him, and unless we bring in an alternative who has that, we'd obviously be short in that department if Mee is out for some reason (although I imagine this was part of the logic of signing experienced cover at right back). But that isn't necessarily an immediate concern - its just something we need to address no later than the end of the window, or earlier if we get a problem. That means that if we have a clear first choice target, be it Dawson (who makes an awful lot of sense) or someone else, we can afford to wait another couple of weeks before moving on to plan B and settling for second best.

[IanMcL]

It might well be Long rather than Tarkowski! Not sure the choice has been made.

[ŽižkovClaret]

.


"Buying Cork at 28 is buying a player in their prime. What exactly is the problem with that?"

The problem with that is that our language is being distorted, bent, and twisted beyond all common sense. Why not 'a player in HIS prime' ...??

#Triggered

[John Johnson 1605]

Is Leon Cort available?

[Selby Claret]

.


"Buying Cork at 28 is buying a player in their prime. What exactly is the problem with that?"

The problem with that is that our language is being distorted, bent, and twisted beyond all common sense. Why not 'a player in HIS prime' ...??

You'll be telling us next that you (correctly) say 'Burnley has signed Cork' rather than 'have'.....

[quoonbeatz]

The Bumpkin thinks we have had to spend considerable amounts of money at the end of each season because of bonuses which means that money is lost for recruitment, not rocket science Ralph.

that money is used for recruitment though.

we don't pay the kind of wages other clubs do so we have to attract players with bonuses. that way both club and player share in our success.

if we didn't offer those bonuses, just the flat salary, we wouldn't have been able to attract the players we have.

[Spijed]

Said before, I'm fairly relaxed about Tarkowski partnering Mee in substitution for Keane. Bluntly, non of us have seen enough of Tarkowski to know whether he's up to scratch, but Dyche has and has made it clear that he rates Tarks highly. That will do for me.

He might not be everything Keane was, but then he doesn't particularly need to be. As someone else pointed out, Keane had more gifts than the centre backs at the disposal of 75% of the Premier League, but the main attribute that Keane has that Tarks doesn't is pace, and perhaps with that an ability to defend 1v1 that most centre backs lack. But WBA finished 10th without any real pace at the back last season.

We simply didn't use Keane's pace or 1v1 abilities very much because our set up protect our centre backs incredibly well. Perhaps we'll have to focus on that even more this season, perhaps sit slightly deeper, but with the sort of athleticism Cork and Hendrick give us in midfield that shouldn't be that big a deal.

Were I am concerned, though, is in our back up options. Tarks strikes me as someone who could use a talker with premier league experience alongside him, and unless we bring in an alternative who has that, we'd obviously be short in that department if Mee is out for some reason (although I imagine this was part of the logic of signing experienced cover at right back). But that isn't necessarily an immediate concern - its just something we need to address no later than the end of the window, or earlier if we get a problem. That means that if we have a clear first choice target, be it Dawson (who makes an awful lot of sense) or someone else, we can afford to wait another couple of weeks before moving on to plan B and settling for second best.

Spice, the only worry I have is that despite the protection our defenders get we still looked a bit shaky at the end of the season against WBA, Bournemouth and West Ham with Tarkowski and Long at the back. It did look as though we missed Keane and Mee greatly in those games and no amount of protection can make up for any weaknesses.

[KRBFC]

Why ? It is none of your business .. what has the staff bonus structure got to do with you ?

Would you walk into a shop in town and demand to know the staff's bonus structure ?

I'm not about to be goaded into figures on an open message board but I have VERY GOOD reason to believe that your comments on bonus payments affecting the transfer kitty are indeed drivel

Ohhh look another ''im in the know, look at me'' poster. I want a full breakdown of inside knowledge, talk to me Mr Garlick

[evensteadiereddie]

He has a point, though. If ablue is talking ollocks, he needs to know.

[KRBFC]

He has a point, though. If ablue is talking ollocks, he needs to know.

But only someone at the club could confirm Ablue is talking 5hit not a poster pretending to be ''in the know''

[Lancasterclaret]

I don't think you'll get specifics, but its fairly well know we have a wage cap but do pay pretty big bonuses.

[elwaclaret]

I can see both sides to this one. The pay structure in football is really none of the fans business, it has just been reported so often by media outlets its now considered as accepted that it is public domain information; which it isn't.

On the other hand I do find the attitude of I know but its because I've got friends at the club, and therefore I'm a better fan than you ******** really petty and childish.

... I prefer the lets wait a couple of weeks and we'll all know what we are going with. I want the best we can afford, but I don't really want to know how much they're on a week any more than they care what I'm on a week.

[Blyclaret]

Another week almost gone and not a whimper of a rumour about a centre back or any player for that matter
All I hear is Dyche happy with the balance of squad.
I will be extremely disappointed if we don't sign at least 3 more players.
I honestly believe we will struggle this season if we go with what we have.

[claretspice]

Spice, the only worry I have is that despite the protection our defenders get we still looked a bit shaky at the end of the season against WBA, Bournemouth and West Ham with Tarkowski and Long at the back. It did look as though we missed Keane and Mee greatly in those games and no amount of protection can make up for any weaknesses.

Yep, fair comment: we did look a bit more shaky in those games. But I think there are three relevant points here. Firstly, in fairness, we were virtually safe at that point and particularly in the games re: Bournemouth and West Ham I suspect we'd lost a little bit of intensity (inevitably) - against WBA, we generally looked pretty secure but conceded two bad goals.

Secondly, Long and Tarkowski were both new to both the team (for all their training) and the Premier League and I am not sure either is much of a talker - I do think Tarkowski needs someone along side him to do the organising (something Duff and Mee did for Keane until the last few months of his time at Burnley).

Finally - we've now signed Cork, who I expect to provide a more athletic screen in front of the back 4, which will make a further difference.

[benstone12]

I think there will be a centre back signing, soon.
Plus an aging GK, (like Given) and that will be it.
Its already been stated our squad is basically 2 players for each position, competing with a couple of young players in the mix.
Apart from CB, we have 2 players now in all areas, playing either 442 or 433.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I would agree with people who suggest that our framework offers as much protection as individual talent does, so the gaps in that talent become less relevant.

I like Tarkowski better than Mee, mainly due to distribution, but as a pair they feel upper end Championship not mid table Premier League which is what we have to aspire towards. It is players like Dawson, McCauley, Shawcross etc who have ensured sides like West Brom and Stoke stay up year after year. Without at least one player of that calibre, we risk becoming bottom three standard defensively, and if we are, we are as good as down, though the above framework comment reduced the risk a bit.

I would add that if I were to pick one of the two to grow into that standard, it would be Tarks, mainly due to composure and distribution. I'd thus improve on Mee.

[Vegas Claret]

Looking at West Broms injury list and their lack of transfer activity I would say the chances of us getting Dawson at this moment in time are zero

[claretspice]

I would agree with people who suggest that our framework offers as much protection as individual talent does, so the gaps in that talent become less relevant.

I like Tarkowski better than Mee, mainly due to distribution, but as a pair they feel upper end Championship not mid table Premier League which is what we have to aspire towards. It is players like Dawson, McCauley, Shawcross etc who have ensured sides like West Brom and Stoke stay up year after year. Without at least one player of that calibre, we risk becoming bottom three standard defensively, and if we are, we are as good as down, though the above framework comment reduced the risk a bit.

I would add that if I were to pick one of the two to grow into that standard, it would be Tarks, mainly due to composure and distribution. I'd thus improve on Mee.

Macauley is an interesting one. Im not sure he's got anything any of our centre backs don't have. Hes slower than either Mee or Tarkowski. He's no ball player and he was a lower league player until his late 20s. But he's reliable abs he's suited to the rigid framework West Brom have. Which is precisely my point really.