Guardian PL Season Preview: Burnley

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:We lost pathetically to a relegation rival on the opening day

I remember, although it wasn't pathetic. We then went on and stayed up.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:35 pm

We had 3 shots on target, brought on Jutkiewicz, and conceded a tap in. It was pathetic.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:42 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:We had 3 shots on target, brought on Jutkiewicz, and conceded a tap in. It was pathetic.

In the next game we had two shots on target and brought on Jutkiewicz. Was that pathetic as well?

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:52 pm

"Convincing as their home form was, Burnley were fairly woeful on the road"

Is it possible to be fairly woeful? Anyway, we could really do with an away win fairly early to avoid too much pressure at home. Our home form is unlikely to be repeated this season - not to the same extent anyway. I'd really like to see us go for it away from home but we'll probably try and keep things tight.

Overall, a fair summary I feel. I'm happy enough with the signings we've made so far but it's obviously not enough. I hope to see at least 2 or 3 more high profile signings (a centre back, winger and maybe a striker) before the window closes.

Stacky_claret · Post by **Stacky_claret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:29 pm

It must be just me who thinks that if we get a good centre half to replace Keane then I think that we have a much much stronger squad than 12 months ago

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:36 pm

Tarkowski knows our framework, just needs to hit the ground running in his first full premier league season, I'm prepared for him requiring 10 games at least to get up to speed. Should he do so, we will have a great back five yet again.

Pope is learning his trade training with an England international.

Bardsley is experienced cover for Lowton, who got to grips with the framework and league finishing strongly. I'd expect him to take that form into this season.
Taylor is a good understudy to the excellent Ward. At 23, he has time to learn what will be required when it's time to take over. This is great succession planning by the manager.
Mee, Heaton's greatest asset, could do with a promising understudy to pass on his experience. Cover at centre back cannot be down to only Long.

Overall I'm happy so far with our first choice defence, just the backup in the centre requires addressing, and we have plenty of time to sort it.

Walters and Gudmundsson on the right gives us at least two options, there's quality and experience there. As does Brady and Arfield on the other side. I think we know what we can expect from Walters and Arfield, Brady and Gudmundsson I'm looking to kick on.

Westwood, Defour, Hendrick, Cork, ought to provide us with a mix of defensive and offensive midfield options. I'm excited at what combination SD uses in each game and that all four will have benefited from a full pre season.

I'm hoping for a more refreshed Vokes this season. I think he benefitted massively in one sense from the Welsh run in the European competition, but I feel he wasn't as fresh as he could have been when he started the season as he would have been had he had the summer off.

Will he or won't he? I think he will. Having had a full season to taste the quality of what this league is and what he's up against, I reckon Gray will find a way to make the best of his natural talent. This doesn't necessarily mean scoring 20 plus, though that would be great, but his ability off the ball to create openings for the team will be invaluable. A greater spread of goals across the squad will be harder for the opposition managers to plan against than a concentration between Vokes, Gray and Barnes.

I'd like to see young Aggers be afforded more opportunities here at Burnley than loaned out this season. Very unlikely to start, but more involvement would give me enormous hope for the level of quality we are developing at the club going forward.

Keep them all fit and we're looking pretty good. Strongest squad we've had for decades.

Whether it's owners looking to sell, internal politics, managers and players getting upset etc. There's always something that seems to knock a club or two off tracks each season. Along with the newcomers to the league, I think there'll be a few clubs below us come May next year. At times it won't be pretty and could get a bit tight, but we'll stay up.
UTC.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:43 pm

A well written article that expresses nothing that we don't already know.
But a decent read in any case.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:43 pm

Expect nothing from the Burnley hating media and you will never be disappointed We get scant praise for any of our marvellous achievments of the last 4 yrs.
I know we will survive and improve on.last year's league position.We have added quality and are just two players, a fast attacking winger and a decent cb , off being a very good mid table team UTC

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:45 pm

Taking off the claret and blue specs, a fairly accurate summary of the club at this moment in time

There may be a month to the end of the window but I fear that our core business in upgrades has not been met so far

No CB replacement for Keane, no pace on either flank and no striker upgrade will leave us conceding more and still not scoring enough

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:50 pm

jojomk1 wrote:Taking off the claret and blue specs, a fairly accurate summary of the club at this moment in time

There may be a month to the end of the window but I fear that our core business in upgrades has not been met so far

No CB replacement for Keane, no pace on either flank and no striker upgrade will leave us conceding more and still not scoring enough

We scored more than enough, if we hadn't have done we would have gone down last season!

Stacky_claret · Post by **Stacky_claret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:58 pm

Doom and gloom lol
Personally I can't wait for a week on Saturday
Bring on Chelsea
UTC

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:05 pm

Spijed wrote:We scored more than enough, if we hadn't have done we would have gone down last season!

On the other hand, it could be argued that excellent displays from our defensive unit (inc Keane), meant we got the points to stay up

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:06 pm

Predicting this season is impossible, there is hope and fear in equal measure.
We might be out of our depth, we might not gel, we might be played off the park, but there are at least 4 more clubs who aren't much better or as good as us, so there is a reasonable chance we will survive. Shame we aren't hoping to kick on.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:10 pm

IndigoLake wrote:Anyway, we could really do with an away win fairly early to avoid too much pressure at home.

You might be unlucky there. It's into November before we play an away game at anyone who didn't qualify for Europe (ie. Everton and above), and it's December 2nd before we play away to anyone outside the top 10 of last year. The pressure's on at home!

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:14 pm

dsr wrote:You might be unlucky there. It's into November before we play an away game at anyone who didn't qualify for Europe (ie. Everton and above), and it's December 2nd before we play away to anyone outside the top 10 of last year. The pressure's on at home!

True

But our first 6 home games are where we could be looking to pick up maximum points - here's hoping

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:16 pm

dsr wrote:You might be unlucky there. It's into November before we play an away game at anyone who didn't qualify for Europe (ie. Everton and above), and it's December 2nd before we play away to anyone outside the top 10 of last year. The pressure's on at home!

Good point! It's not beyond us to win away at one of the market leaders though (heh - Dychespeak). An early win will provide a lot of confidence after a tough season away from home last year. In order to do that, I'd hope we take the game to such teams a little more as inviting too much pressure is just asking to concede. It's all about striking the right balance I guess.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:19 pm

Having those hard away games early is a bonus, if we are prepared to experiment and catch sides out before they settle.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Fair summary. No problem with any of that article.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:32 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Don't think anyone could reasonably disagree with any of that to be honest.

As has been said, they predicted us 19th last season. The Guardian also proclaimed our transfer window a "failure" - a matter of weeks before it actually closed and before we had signed Hendrick or Defour.

taio · Post by **taio** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:37 pm

It's a totally fair and reasonable article. Separate to that it's not surprising people will tip us for relegation. After all, some of our supporters think the same.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:12 pm

Given it's the Guardian, I'm surprised they haven't blamed our away form on Brexit!

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:26 pm

"THE BIG KICK OFF" supplement previewing the upcoming football season from a punting perspective is published tomorrow in the Racing Post. It would be a major surprise if many of the pundits did not also tip us for relegation and a return to the Championship.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:57 pm

PANIC the window closes in 4 weeks....

That's the impression I'm getting from some on here and the bare minimum lists are usually amusing.

mohamed69 · Post by **mohamed69** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:11 pm

They had us at 19th last year and we did ok !

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:14 pm

To be fair to the football pundits they are asked to give their predictions before the PL kicks off not wait until after the transfer window closes. They can only base their predictions on the squad strengths as they stand at present and nobody knows as to whether our squad will be stronger or weaker come the end of the window.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:34 pm

People on here seem to know

Stan Tastic · Post by **Stan Tastic** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:40 pm

taio wrote:It's a totally fair and reasonable article. Separate to that it's not surprising people will tip us for relegation. After all, some of our supporters think the same.

It's pointless doing these prediction articles a month before the transfer window closes for obvious reasons.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:43 am

I mentioned earlier up the thread that the Racing Post supplement "BIG KICK OFF" previewing the upcoming football season with related betting advice was published today. Not surprisingly the article covering Relegation from the Premier League carries the headline "KEANE SALE COULD BE COSTLY FOR BURNLEY" and concludes that Burnley should be the main bet in the relegation market with a 2 points stake.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:51 am

We do have to show there is life after Keane, I think we will but doubts do remain.

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:11 am

Michael Carrick is 36 and JM doesn't see his age as a problem, in fact he made him captain.
Walters is a top professional who has looked after himself and is 2 years younger than the captain of the world's biggest club, so no problem here.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:28 am

No Ney Never wrote:Tarkowski knows our framework, just needs to hit the ground running in his first full premier league season, I'm prepared for him requiring 10 games at least to get up to speed. Should he do so, we will have a great back five yet again.

Pope is learning his trade training with an England international.

Bardsley is experienced cover for Lowton, who got to grips with the framework and league finishing strongly. I'd expect him to take that form into this season.
Taylor is a good understudy to the excellent Ward. At 23, he has time to learn what will be required when it's time to take over. This is great succession planning by the manager.
Mee, Heaton's greatest asset, could do with a promising understudy to pass on his experience. Cover at centre back cannot be down to only Long.

Overall I'm happy so far with our first choice defence, just the backup in the centre requires addressing, and we have plenty of time to sort it.

Walters and Gudmundsson on the right gives us at least two options, there's quality and experience there. As does Brady and Arfield on the other side. I think we know what we can expect from Walters and Arfield, Brady and Gudmundsson I'm looking to kick on.

Westwood, Defour, Hendrick, Cork, ought to provide us with a mix of defensive and offensive midfield options. I'm excited at what combination SD uses in each game and that all four will have benefited from a full pre season.

I'm hoping for a more refreshed Vokes this season. I think he benefitted massively in one sense from the Welsh run in the European competition, but I feel he wasn't as fresh as he could have been when he started the season as he would have been had he had the summer off.

Will he or won't he? I think he will. Having had a full season to taste the quality of what this league is and what he's up against, I reckon Gray will find a way to make the best of his natural talent. This doesn't necessarily mean scoring 20 plus, though that would be great, but his ability off the ball to create openings for the team will be invaluable. A greater spread of goals across the squad will be harder for the opposition managers to plan against than a concentration between Vokes, Gray and Barnes.

I'd like to see young Aggers be afforded more opportunities here at Burnley than loaned out this season. Very unlikely to start, but more involvement would give me enormous hope for the level of quality we are developing at the club going forward.

Keep them all fit and we're looking pretty good. Strongest squad we've had for decades.

Whether it's owners looking to sell, internal politics, managers and players getting upset etc. There's always something that seems to knock a club or two off tracks each season. Along with the newcomers to the league, I think there'll be a few clubs below us come May next year. At times it won't be pretty and could get a bit tight, but we'll stay up.
UTC.

Good post and I agree with almost all of it, but Walters hasn't been used out wide or in midfield at all in pre-season, I don't think he's going to be filling in for Boyd in our 442. Even last night it was Barnes who was pushing wide in the 451/433, Walters was always central.

I rate Brady, Gudmundsson and Arfield but if Walters isn't Boyd's replacement then we're weaker in wide midfield than we were last season.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:38 pm

It is a reasonable article.

The one thing Paul Wilson can't possibly be expected to take into account is the extent to which Dyche and his staff believe that Tarkowski is a ready-made replacement for Keane. Commentators have to assume that we will need to spend big to replace him. That isn't automatically the case, and as I've said elsewhere I think that people are overplaying the extent to which we will feel the difference in quality between Keane and Tarkowski - the assets Keane had which Tarkowski doesn't have (chiefly related to pace) are ones that aren't shown up that often in our set up. That said, the lack of an alternative is clearly a concern but there's no reason why we'd be desperate to bring in someone who would start as back up in before the season kicks off.

Too much is being made of our run in the new year, incidentally. The fixture card was always skewed in a way which made it likely we'd pick up more points before the turn than after it, and the run from February through to April was always a shocker. The fact we eased up after we got effectively safe and had key players missing is also neither here nor there. Its every bit as relevant that Robbie Brady wasn't really able to contribute this year, and he will next year, and we'll also see the benefit of a full pre-season in Hendrick, Westwood and Defour, all of whom looked far leaner at Preston.

Not sure about the pace out wide thing either. Brady is quicker than either Arfield or Boyd, and whilst JBG is probably short of the burst of out and out pace he needs to mark himself out at this level, he's by no means pedestrian. If we put out a front 4 of Brady, Walters, Gray and JBG, I'd argue we will have more mobility amongst that 4 than almost anyone else in the bottom half. I'd like another pacey forward/wide option because the one thing those 4 don't do particularly is carry the ball at pace, but we're not that under-resourced in that department.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:53 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:First choice striker (with pace or skill)
Winger better than Gudmundsson and Arfield
Centre Back better than Mee or Tarkowski
Experienced goalkeeper who'd be more use to the first team than Paul Robinson was

At the bare minimum.

Spot on but I would say a winger with more pace rather than better and a centre back as an alternative if Tarkowski doesn't make the grade.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:59 pm

We don't need a first choice striker with pace unless Gray goes. That's just being ridiculously greedy.

What we could ideally do with is someone who can play wide or in a central role, perhaps off a target man, who can potentially play in the same side as Gray this season, but also be part of the answer to replacing him next season. A sort of version of Ings who is perhaps more comfortable wide.

We also don't need an experienced goalkeeper who'd be "more use" than Robinson. Robinson was perfectly acceptable cover.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:38 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Given it's the Guardian, I'm surprised they haven't blamed our away form on Brexit!

According to one of the comments on there, we're the " BNP & EDL " team...

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:02 pm

Laughed at the following comment beneath the article:

"Awful town, club, manager, players and fans. Boring cloggers. 20th please. Their place is in League One."

which is why it's great to be confounding both the learned critics and the throbbing bellends. My prediction is that we'll finish 16th this season and it still won't be good enough for some people on this site.

Claretrew · Post by **Claretrew** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:29 pm

I don't think we saw the best of Brady, Hendricks, Gud or Defour last season hopefully that will change. I like the addition of Cork. Having sold Keane we do need to bring someone else in with pace to the defence. I still think there will be more signings to come but don't feel too concerned.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:45 pm

claretspice wrote:We don't need a first choice striker with pace unless Gray goes. That's just being ridiculously greedy.

What we could ideally do with is someone who can play wide or in a central role, perhaps off a target man, who can potentially play in the same side as Gray this season, but also be part of the answer to replacing him next season. A sort of version of Ings who is perhaps more comfortable wide.

We also don't need an experienced goalkeeper who'd be "more use" than Robinson. Robinson was perfectly acceptable cover.

'What we could do with' is a goal-scoring centre forward. Same applies to a lot of other teams but I'm only bothered about us. They cost money,a lot of money, but the current incumbent(s) at their best won't score enough goals. There is money available.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:04 pm

Code: Select all

Silkyskills1 wrote:'What we could do with' is a goal-scoring centre forward. Same applies to a lot of other teams but I'm only bothered about us. They cost money,a lot of money, but the current incumbent(s) at their best won't score enough goals. There is money available.

Only 12 of 20 clubs had a player last season who scored more than the 10 goals Vokes scored last season. Only 13 had a player that scored more than the 9 Gray managed. And i'd guess Vokes and Gray spent more time on the bench than a handful of players who finished above them in the standings.

Lets put the goalscoring achievements of our strikers last season in perspective.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:24 pm

Accept your stats. and obviously can't argue with them. We need to be more of a threat in front of goal this time though. Walters,I think, is a shrewd investment but I was/am hoping for a more dynamic player to be part of our firepower. Like all current Clarets I have lots of time for both Sam Vokes and Ashley Barnes but just don't see them as being good enough for a second season in this league. Hope I'm proved wrong,of course.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:09 pm

But what is Gray if not dynamic? What is it in his and Vokes' 1 in 3 strike rates last season, or the 1 in2 they each managed the year before, in a team that wasnt an enormous creator of chances, that makes you think they won't score a reasonable quota of goals next season?

Seems to me its all based on an insecurity about what we have at our disposal - a tendency to underestimate our quality. If anything, what we lacked last season was goals from midfield, and the ability to work the ball through the units to create chances, particularly away from home. Its nothing to do with the strikers particularly.

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:21 pm

The Guardian may want to review their review after Chelsea have their Championship ar5e5 handed to them on a plate a week Saturday.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:35 am

claretspice wrote: Its nothing to do with the strikers particularly.

I beg to differ on that point so I suppose we will have to wait and see.