Tarkowski

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:37 pm

This is a very weird thread, in a board full of very weird threads.

Its a stunning result, and we should just be enjoying it.

Hell, I am!

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:39 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:This is a very weird thread, in a board full of very weird threads.

Its a stunning result, and we should just be enjoying it.

Hell, I am!

I for one can find no joy in beating last seasons champions on their home ground. Dyche out.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:41 pm

Tarks played fantastic today did his job well also put his body all the line more than once . He made 2 mistakes which lead to both goals . We got away with it today and rightly so people need to remember he his new to playing instead of watching from the bench . He will grow in confidence

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:57 pm

Most goals are scored due to defensive errors, our defenders are out of the bargain basement in PL terms, have done remarkably well today.
Fantastic team effort to win at Chelsea.

At least Ben Mee gets a break.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:24 pm

We beat the champions of england, away from home on the first day of the season, and someone's first thought is to log onto the messageboard to single out one of our players for criticism.
Weird behaviour

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:33 pm

Damo wrote:We beat the champions of england, away from home on the first day of the season, and someone's first thought is to log onto the messageboard to single out one of our players for criticism.
Weird behaviour

Not really considering the tools on here.

ClaretRock · Post by **ClaretRock** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:38 pm

don't think anyone has been too critical to be fair. The two mistakes were poor mistakes. If anyone has written him off based on that they need to have a word with themselves. If he does it week in week out then we have a problem. Today they didn't cost us and we got an unexpected result!!

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:22 pm

We all make mistakes, that's why they put rubbers on top of pencils.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:51 pm

Right_winger wrote:What's your point? Nobodys making him a whipping boy but pointing out some costly mistakes or isn't that allowed on a footballing forum?

They weren't costly.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:02 pm

1-11 we were superb and had to be to even make it a game. Id understand the criticism if we lost but we didn't so quite frankly I don't care about two insignificant goals conceded.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:05 pm

He's not at fault for their first. Sometimes you just get done by good movement.

He's asleep for their second though. Lets Luiz run in a straight line beyond him.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:11 pm

Just watched this.

Both goals were top class, movement sublime, beating the offside trap with perfect timing both times. Morata and Luiz both brilliant at that.

Whether Tarks was in any way culpable was debatable. Starting a thread on the subject after our best away win in 40 years was disgraceful.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:15 pm

Win, lose or draw errors can and should still be discussed. Saying otherwise is just bloody daft. Of course it's a fantastic result that should be applauded but it doesn't mean that improvements can't be made or mentioned.

Tarkowski had a decent game on the whole, I'm sure though that he'd be the first to admit that he wasn't as alert as he should have been on a couple of occasions.

It shouldn't be unexpected, and he will learn a lot from games like this, but saying that criticism shouldn't be allowed after a great win is ******* stupid.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:25 pm

We need an experienced centre back in, not because of anything that has happened today but because we've lost Keane.

It's really that simple.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:25 pm

Surely, he should be in midfield.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:37 pm

Tarks did more things right today than he did wrong! On the whole well done Tarks you played your part in a brilliant win

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:39 pm

I think he can do better for both but it's a big step up against teams like this.
I genuinely think he'll improve with game time.

On the whole, part of a fantastic victory.

oswyclaret · Post by **oswyclaret** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:49 pm

Il Duce wrote:He played well but his two mistakes cost us two goals. He'll learn from it.

He,ll probably make a few more mistakes as well..personally, thought he was immense today!

Not been back long and still buzzing.

Tell you what..lets spend 15-20 mill on a centre half and put tarks back on the bench !

That will do his confidence a world of good..eh

Oh by the way... sack Vokes too, an bring in a big name centre forward..lets blow the Fac%in lot, we can afford it!

Lets just enjoy the moment!

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:01 am

oswyclaret wrote:He,ll probably make a few more mistakes as well..personally, thought he was immense today!

Not been back long and still buzzing.

Tell you what..lets spend 15-20 mill on a centre half and put tarks back on the bench !

That will do his confidence a world of good..eh

Oh by the way... sack Vokes too, an bring in a big name centre forward..lets blow the Fac%in lot, we can afford it!

Lets just enjoy the moment!

We should enjoy the moment, no question. At the same time, we shouldn't rest on our laurels and accept errors. Tarkowski can be a great player - it's not about dumping him for someone else, it's about having the best that we can for Burnley, whether that's Tarkowski starting or earning his place as back up.

Clarinetclaret · Post by **Clarinetclaret** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:04 am

Yes it's a brilliant win but somebody was just pointing out mistakes that will cost us down the line. Do you happy clappers think Dyche won't point these mistakes out? Just because we've got a massive win doesn't mean players can't be held up for mistakes. Hopefully he will learn as the season goes on, if he doesn't he will be dropped. Think some of you lot need to give your heads a wobble, players can be criticised even after a win.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:05 am

I said pretty much the same thing in the pub after the match. Just assuming that everything is perfect because we won is a bit complacent. I'm pretty sure that those who were there will remember how nervous that second half is.

If he cuts the mistakes out then fine but you can't just ignore them and hope for the best. I'm sure our management team won't be.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:07 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:This is a very weird thread, in a board full of very weird threads.

Its a stunning result, and we should just be enjoying it.

Hell, I am!

although you are normally quick of the mark slagging off all and sundry when the results are not quite so good.

Rumbletonk · Post by **Rumbletonk** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:19 am

Today was a special day. Tarkowski switch off for both goals. It's still a special day.

1968claret · Post by **1968claret** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:24 am

Clarinetclaret wrote:Yes it's a brilliant win but somebody was just pointing out mistakes that will cost us down the line. Do you happy clappers think Dyche won't point these mistakes out? Just because we've got a massive win doesn't mean players can't be held up for mistakes. Hopefully he will learn as the season goes on, if he doesn't he will be dropped. Think some of you lot need to give your heads a wobble, players can be criticised even after a win.

I'm sure he will point them out once the dust has settled and he has let the lads enjoy the well deserved win. What he won't do is focus on the minor negatives as the OP did whilst we were deservedly leading the champions away from home. Almost as if some people can't see the positives. I would rather enjoy the moment, if that makes me a happy clapper then that's fine.
Having just watched the full 90 minutes on sky maybe I should start a new thread
Immense first half performance from Mee and Tarks. Discuss!

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:35 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:We need an experienced centre back in, not because of anything that has happened today but because we've lost Keane.

It's really that simple.

Tarkowski was signed as cover for Keane/Mee. He has been very patient. Now he gets his chance, deservedly. He now needs games to settle in. It's really that's simple. Or shall we just discard him? That sends the wrong signal in my opinion.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:59 am

I feel like quite a lot of people who post on here don't understand the point of a message board. I'm not why it is. Could it be because there are a lot of older posters or perhaps just because many football fans just haven't posted on other internet forums before?

Just because someone points out a mistake does not mean they are not happy with the result. Its just discussion. There is no rule in place that states that someone can't give their own opinion.

People get slated for having different opinions to the majority on here, but it seems like many users think that everyone should just think the same thing. If that was the case there would be no discussion, no forum, nothing.

I don't get why there has to be such conflict between people, why can't there be healthy discussion? We all support the same team.

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:17 am

Played well.

Occasionally, in the Prem, the opposition may score an odd goal. We will have to learn that this is in fact normal.

Blyclaret · Post by **Blyclaret** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:22 am

Watching on tv
My opinion it was fantastic movement from Morata for first goal
And a brilliant flick header for second to get the ball through.
Think the doubters are being very hard on Tarkowski.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:52 am

Blyclaret wrote:Watching on tv
My opinion it was fantastic movement from Morata for first goal
And a brilliant flick header for second to get the ball through.
Think the doubters are being very hard on Tarkowski.

My sentiments entirely.Dont think even the mighty Keane would have stopped Morata getting in that position for the first goal.Hope we are not going to make Tarks a whipping boy this season because he is not as good as Keane.Dont think it warranted its own thread.People could have marked him down on the ratings thread if necessary.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:05 am

Shocking really how a defender with limited experience in the Premier League failed to handle with 100% success a few high end Internationals for the whole 90 minutes of the game.

Literally shocking

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:09 am

First goal is just brilliant movement. Second goal both centre halves are rank. Mee doesn't challenge the initial header and Tarkowski is then caught on his heels.

Tarks reminded me of Keane where he first played at this level. A bit naive but more than capable.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:09 am

I would venture to suggest having Michael Keane at centre half yesterday wouldn't have made one iota of difference to the two quality goals Chelsea scored.

It's the usual 'one way syndrome' as well, our goals were brilliantly crafted but theirs were from mistakes.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:20 am

Tark had an excellent 1st half. 2nd half he appeared to lose the plot in the last 30, but to be fair he was not helped by his team mates as chelsea took complete control of the midfield. Brady was at fault on the 2nd. Mee and Tark equally responsible for the 3rd

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:31 am

Worth mentioning as well that if Tarks made two mistakes, then so did David Luiz (who was magnificent last season)

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:34 am

I feel I must apologise for commenting yesterday, it wasn't the day for that , as someone posted our best away win in over 40 years , my only defense was the game was still going on and it looked like we could concede a third .
Again apologies, still buzzing this morning, I expect everyone else is too.
Have a good day people.

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:35 am

[quote="MDWat"]First goal is just brilliant movement. Second goal both centre halves are rank. Mee doesn't challenge the initial header and Tarkowski is then caught on his heels.

Pretty much somes up my opinion having watched the game this morning. Tarks does lose sight of him on the first for a split second and Morata takes full advantage. On the second Ben Mee doesn't challenge the header and Luiz is already on the move making it difficult for tarks who doesn't really respond

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:37 am

[quote="KlyBfc"][quote="MDWat"]First goal is just brilliant movement. Second goal both centre halves are rank. Mee doesn't challenge the initial header and Tarkowski is then caught on his heels.

Pretty much somes up my opinion having watched the game this morning. Tarks does lose sight of him on the first for a split second and Morata takes full advantage. On the second Ben Mee doesn't challenge the header and Luiz is already on the move making it difficult for tarks who doesn't really respond.

Ps anybody worried about our defence, take a look at Palaces defending

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:40 am

KlyBfc wrote:

Agree with both of those comments. Way too much finger pointing at Tarkowski. It's almost like some of those who have done so have simply considered who was marking the goal scorer and then automatically apportioned blame without considering other important factors.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:55 am

I was at the game yesterday, great day. Tarks was amazing in the first half.

The whole reason I don't look at UTC until 15 hours after the result is because of Belmtard threads like this. Posted minutes after the final whistle, what special kind of idiot has this as their first reaction?

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:13 am

It's not negativity. I think most people pointing out he lost his man are also saying he will get better with more games. He was very impressive first half

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:17 am

Having a pop at him being undone by one of the best strikers in Europe, we won the game. Some people are happiest when they have something to complain about.

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:27 am

Defensive mistakes as they may be, or naivety. Tarkowski is a relative newcomer to the Premier League and is not used to playing against seasoned internationals of considerable repute. Even with nine men Chelsea looked a threat in the second half and should be. They have a whole squad full of top quality internationals. He can chalk it off as experience and part of a learning curve. Far better players than him have been to blame for howlers. Just look at Luiz for Brazil against Germany, he had a stinker.
The time to worry about Tarkowski not being good enough is if he isn't learning from his mistakes and continues to make elementary errors. Bearing in mind who we were up against yesterday and their individual abilities and movement. He did quite well considering his lack of game time against top quality players.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:34 am

He won some very important headers and made interventions and blocks. Well done to the lad.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:49 am

Some people are being far too harsh on Tarks. He has the potential to be a Burnley legend.

There is no way against 9 men that even Chelsea should be putting us under so much pressure and getting such good balls into the box. Hard to believe that we did not have more possesion against 9 men and that is down to the midfield/tactics.

Obviously we need another centre back, but Tarks deserves his chance now.

billyhamilton82 · Post by **billyhamilton82** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:50 am

"Defensive mistakes as they may be, or naivety. Tarkowski is a relative newcomer to the Prermier League and is not used to playing against seasoned internationals of considerable repute. Even with nine men Chelsea looked a threat in the second half and should be. They have a whole squad full of top quality internationals. He can chalk it off as experience and part of a learning curve. Far better players than him have been to blame for howlers. Just look at Luiz for Brazil against Germany, he had a stinker.
The time to worry about Tarkowski not being good enough is if he isn't learning from his mistakes and continues to make elementary errors. Bearing in mind who we were up against yesterday and their individual abilities and movement. He did quite well considering his lack of game time against top quality players."

Totally agree with all of that apart from that you seem to accept that both situations were Tarkowski's fault.

The real problem is that it doesn't take much for certain "Burnley fans" to find a scapegoat.

What happens when he does actually make a mistake?

This thread is worrying in the respect that a player coming in and trying to fill the boots of a current England International and our most expensive sale by a distance and trying to create a new partnership with Ben Mee.

He needs all the help and support from everyone including the fans.

Why would we immediately get on the back of one of our own after a result like that?

It really doesn't make sense.

Tarkowski was excellent yesterday as he was at Palace in our last away win.

Is it coincidence he was playing in our only away wins of 2017?

I think not.

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:06 am

billyhamilton82 wrote: Totally agree with all of that apart from that you seem to accept that both situations were Tarkowski's fault.

My point was, even if it was him to blame, considering the opposition and his relative lack of experience at this level. He could be forgiven for any mistakes he made. He was up against top quality internationals and even the best defenders make elementary errors.
Overall I thought he played well. I wasn't singling him out, but merely saying considering his experience at this level. He could be forgiven for a lapse or two against the Champions. To be fair. I didn't see much wrong from him. Considering some of the keystone cops defending yesterday and Friday by more experienced defenders at other clubs. Tarkowski performed admirably.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:52 am

ExistentialWanderer wrote:My point was, even if it was him to blame, considering the opposition and his relative lack of experience at this level. He could be forgiven for any mistakes he made. He was up against top quality internationals and even the best defenders make elementary errors.
Overall I thought he played well. I wasn't singling him out, but merely saying considering his experience at this level. He could be forgiven for a lapse or two against the Champions. To be fair. I didn't see much wrong from him. Considering some of the keystone cops defending yesterday and Friday by more experienced defenders at other clubs. Tarkowski performed admirably.

That's an excellent point. Our defending was for the most part pretty solid yesterday and we were largely undone by the additional movement from Morata who was superb. It's no coincidence that Chelsea started to look a decent outfit as soon as Willian (who was also brilliant for them) had someone else capable of pulling our defenders out of shape a bit. The disappointing thing was to concede the second - Luis really should have been tracked although it's a peach of a header from Morata for the assist.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:56 am

He looked bloody good. Shockingly good in the first half.

What happened in the 2nd??

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:14 pm

It's not finger pointing, it's identifying possible areas for improvement. Dyche and Tarkowski himself will no doubt be analysing and doing exactly them same - it's how he will learn and improve.

Posters get slated for criticism post defeat and for criticism post a win. Criticism should always be allowed as long as it's presented in the right way.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:15 pm

Clarinetclaret wrote:Yes it's a brilliant win but somebody was just pointing out mistakes that will cost us down the line. Do you happy clappers think Dyche won't point these mistakes out? Just because we've got a massive win doesn't mean players can't be held up for mistakes. Hopefully he will learn as the season goes on, if he doesn't he will be dropped. Think some of you lot need to give your heads a wobble, players can be criticised even after a win.

Tarky was great yesterday - as I've posted on other threads, he looked like he'd been playing Premier League all his life. He's made the step up - remember we signed him when we were Championship.

Sure, there were some things he didn't get right, but that's true of all footballers. Sure, Tarks will want to avoid those mistakes in future, and sure, Sean Dyche will work on those things with him.

Gary Cahill has been playing CH in Premier League for a lot longer. He's also got some mistakes to work on. Same for a lot of the Chelsea players. Morata looks good for £60 million.

We should all be happy clapping - we've taken 3 points at Stamford Bridge. That's all that counts about yesterday.

UTC