Gay and a claret? me too!

HuncoatClaret · Post by **HuncoatClaret** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:15 pm

Inchy wrote:Yes but it is a thought process that does exist.

No matter what some morons will always have a problem with homosexuality. If this club allows gay people to feel more comfortable then they should do it. I might join I bet they would go to more interesting pubs beforehand than the other supporters groups

I know what some of your mates are like after a pint and they drink in working mens clubs.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:52 pm

[quote="HuncoatClaret"]I know what some of your mates are like after a pint and they drink in working mens clubs.[/quote

Eh?

HuncoatClaret · Post by **HuncoatClaret** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:01 pm

Inchy wrote:
Before away games many supporters groups stop off at a working mens club somewhere outside the town/city we are playing. I would imagine that some gay men may feel uncomfortable holding hands in a working men's club because some pi55ed up bigot might say something.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:04 pm

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:05 pm

I'm getting confused now.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:09 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I'm getting confused now.

You are a prime candidate for this proposed group then

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:16 pm

Ah get it now. You play at towneley. Who are you?

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:24 pm

All the best with this Alice

mohamed69 · Post by **mohamed69** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:28 pm

I am bi. Starting a bisexual Muslim club if anyone fancies?

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:11 pm

AliceDevine wrote:As someone from the Tottenham LGBT supporters club says, I'd like to see a day where they don't have to or need to exist, because there aren't issues to be addressed.

Genuine question. At what point would this occur? What would it take for the whole LGBT society to think "Do you know what? We have set out to achieve what we want now, there's no need for this anymore"

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:14 pm

Probably around about the point where people no longer hold views such as...

JohnMac wrote:You are a prime candidate for this proposed group then

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:22 pm

Spiral wrote:Probably around about the point where people no longer hold views such as...

And how do we determine this? A test? A survey of every single person in the country?

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:24 pm

joey13 wrote:I'm ambidextrous can I start my own group ?

I'll join. So that makes at least two of us

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:31 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:And how do we determine this? A test? A survey of every single person in the country?

IQ test, yes. Splendid idea.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:41 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:Genuine question. At what point would this occur? What would it take for the whole LGBT society to think "Do you know what? We have set out to achieve what we want now, there's no need for this anymore"

When is Burnley Football Club going to say "Do you know what? We have set out to achieve what we want now, there's no need for this anymore"?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:44 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:Genuine question. At what point would this occur? What would it take for the whole LGBT society to think "Do you know what? We have set out to achieve what we want now, there's no need for this anymore"

It's all utter tosh. FFS it's almost as if Mr Jon Un needs to ramp it up to ww3 to get the world of PCBS back to reality.

Much more important issues in the world than feelings of different groups , religious, sexual orientation ,political etc. Especially in this spoilt brat country where everyone is a winner and peasant clans of times gone by live like Lords of the manner.

Is life really that harsh on everyone ? To be in this needy society? Where persecution claims are a daily agenda of the bored and wanna be down trodden .

Just get the f on with it .

I'm off ta pit in 6 hrs for another 14hr shift tha say.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:53 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:When is Burnley Football Club going to say "Do you know what? We have set out to achieve what we want now, there's no need for this anymore"?

Why should it be upto bfc to do that?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:57 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:Why should it be upto bfc to do that?

I'm talking about BFC closing. When is the club going to finally decide that it's acheived what it wanted?

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:59 pm

What does that have to do with this subject? It's completely irrelavant. So what you are basically saying is that this will go on indefinitely, which is not healthy.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:01 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:What does that have to do with this subject? It's completely irrelavant. So what you are basically saying is that this will go on indefinitely, which is not healthy.

I imagine any LGBTQ supporters club would close when it has unsustainably few numbers. Just like any other supporters club.
Why are you expecting an answer to that question about this proposed supporters club? Have you demanded the same question be answered about any other club?

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:18 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I imagine any LGBTQ supporters club would close when it has unsustainably few numbers. Just like any other supporters club.
Why are you expecting an answer to that question about this proposed supporters club? Have you demanded the same question be answered about any other club?

This stretches far beyond BFC though. It's the constant need to feel accepted and the need for equality that's so great that it is lost on some that it already exists. I do believe that everyone should be treated the same but somewhere along the line the very definition of equality has been lost.

I took a gay Ipswich supporter to the blackburn and burnley game a few seasoms ago who was a friend of my then gf from her uni. I took him with the lads and to this day they did not know he was gay, not because I was ashamed of telling them it was because it didn't matter at all. And there were no problems. That in my opinion is the definition of treating someone with the human equality they deserve. Having a separate group is most certainly not.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:19 am

Went to do the quiz. First two questions were multi guess.

Started asking for typed answers.

My opinion isnt that important for me to actually start typing answers to questions I don't really give a **** about.

L? G? B? T? Truth is, I don't really care. The "issue" if there is one, is yours. Most people I know don't give a shiny shite what you class yourself as. You either support Burnley, or you're a ******* imbecile.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:25 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:This stretches far beyond BFC though. It's the constant need to feel accepted and the need for equality that's so great that it is lost on some that it already exists. I do believe that everyone should be treated the same but somewhere along the line the very definition of equality has been lost.

I took a gay Ipswich supporter to the blackburn and burnley game a few seasoms ago who was a friend of my then gf from her uni. I took him with the lads and to this day they did not know he was gay, not because I was ashamed of telling them it was because it didn't matter at all. And there were no problems. That in my opinion is the definition of treating someone with the human equality they deserve. Having a separate group is most certainly not.

Have you considered the possibility that it wasn't a problem for any of them because they didn't know? If you think equality exists for minorities in all aspects of life then I trust you're enjoying the priviledge you probably don't think exists.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:38 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Have you considered the possibility that it wasn't a problem for any of them because they didn't know? If you think equality exists for minorities in all aspects of life then I trust you're enjoying the priviledge you probably don't think exists.

Again why should they know? I don't go up to someone and say I'm GFF and I'm heterosexual. It isn't important. Why should a gay have to say he is gay? Most people couldn't give a flying ****. If I had have said he was gay they wouldn't have cared but it would have potentially made they gay guy feel uncomfortable the fact he felt I needed to say that. I'm not saying equality exists for all minorities, equally the majories suffer from inequality also but if you think that it is ever going to get to a stage where everything is equal then you are aiming for a Utopia that simply will never exist.

spadesclaret · Post by **spadesclaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:42 am

Europa. Utopia?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:45 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:Again why should they know? I don't go up to someone and say I'm GFF and I'm heterosexual. It isn't important. Why should a gay have to say he is gay? Most people couldn't give a flying ****. If I had have said he was gay they wouldn't have cared but it would have potentially made they gay guy feel uncomfortable the fact he felt I needed to say that. I'm not saying equality exists for all minorities, equally the majories suffer from inequality also but if you think that it is ever going to get to a stage where everything is equal then you are aiming for a Europa that simply will never exist.

Do you even know what point you're trying to make? I'm not talking about whether they should or shouldn't know. I'm talking about the higher likelihood that one or more of them would have a problem with it if they did know, versus the lower likelihood that any of them would have a problem with the guy being straight. People are still shunned, beaten and even killed if the wrong person finds out they're gay. That doesn't happen to straight people if they come out as straight. that's how you equality for minority sexualities doesn't exist in all aspects of yet, and maybe that's why some of them feel the need to congregate.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:47 am

spadesclaret wrote:Europa. Utopia?

Yes. Sorry spades I still haven't got used to this bloody phone.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:51 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Do you even know what point you're trying to make?

Yes. I do and I have made enough points I feel for you to dicect but it has all gone over your head as per. No problem though. It's all opinions at the end of the day.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:40 am

As mentioned a few times over - The joy of going to a football match is that in those moments where everything clicks on the pitch ..... Not one person in those stands gives a to$$ who is sat next to them. It's the feeling of all the rubbish thats gone on during the week not making one iota of difference to your mood for 90 minutes (usually about 85 minutes if you smoke and sit in the CFS).

We could start a thousand groups with how people identify themselves but the fact is that come 3pm on a Saturday (When not in the prem) it doesn't matter how you identify yourself other than being a claret for those 2 hours.

I have no idea who sits around me is homosexual or trans or bi - and I honestly couldnt give 2 flying ...... There are people I have known years from just going to matches that I know by name and yet I don't know if they're single/married to a man or woman or even if they have switched sexuality before I met them - They're clarets and thats good enough for me.

Why would anybody want to move themselves away from other fans and be with "their own kind" for any reason - the joy of football .... And especially supporting a team like Burnley is that we all know that most of the time it will be a rough ride - which is why the good times bring the whole town together ... Not just the straight/gay/white/black supporters to celebrate with their own.

You could start a club if it makes you happy to do so and would make you feel more part of the club - but having lived in and supported Burnley all my life .... You'd only be distancing yourself from what makes us who we are.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:57 am

My ex son in law is a hobosexual.

He forms sexual relationships to prevent him being homeless.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:57 am

This view of "I don't have an issue with your sexuality so it must be your issue" is stupid.

People do have an issue that's the point. If no one cared about people's sexuality then there wouldn't be a need for a supporters group, but people do care. If two blokes started kissing in the stands at burnley what do you think would happen? You might ignore it as you don't have an issue with it. Others wouldn't

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:59 am

bfccrazy wrote:As mentioned a few times over - The joy of going to a football match is that in those moments where everything clicks on the pitch ..... Not one person in those stands gives a to$$ who is sat next to them. It's the feeling of all the rubbish thats gone on during the week not making one iota of difference to your mood for 90 minutes (usually about 85 minutes if you smoke and sit in the CFS).

We could start a thousand groups with how people identify themselves but the fact is that come 3pm on a Saturday (When not in the prem) it doesn't matter how you identify yourself other than being a claret for those 2 hours.

I have no idea who sits around me is homosexual or trans or bi - and I honestly couldnt give 2 flying ...... There are people I have known years from just going to matches that I know by name and yet I don't know if they're single/married to a man or woman or even if they have switched sexuality before I met them - They're clarets and thats good enough for me.

Why would anybody want to move themselves away from other fans and be with "their own kind" for any reason - the joy of football .... And especially supporting a team like Burnley is that we all know that most of the time it will be a rough ride - which is why the good times bring the whole town together ... Not just the straight/gay/white/black supporters to celebrate with their own.

You could start a club if it makes you happy to do so and would make you feel more part of the club - but having lived in and supported Burnley all my life .... You'd only be distancing yourself from what makes us who we are.

Spoken like a true CIS

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:01 am

Spiral wrote:Probably around about the point where people no longer hold views such as...

It's a sad sad world world when people are so easily offended and I would happily quote this at any A to Z meeting.

My own opinion is if the op feels the need to form a group then fine go ahead but I do not feel the need to join it, or any other exclusive club to support Burnley.

COYC73 · Post by **COYC73** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:46 am

What does LGBTQ+ Stand for? and what sort of things will the supporters club be doing/organising....? Interested to know

COYC73 · Post by **COYC73** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:55 am

COYC73 wrote:What does LGBTQ+ Stand for? and what sort of things will the supporters club be doing/organising....? Interested to know

I get the first 3 letters but I don't know what the T the Q and the + stand for.....
I wish people wouldn't just assume that everyone knows what all the abbreviations stand for

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:07 am

COYC73 wrote:What does LGBTQ+ Stand for? and what sort of things will the supporters club be doing/organising....? Interested to know

Lesbian
Gay
Bisexual
Trans
Queer
Which is ironic because we get told were in the wrong if we call somebody queer

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:07 am

At the current rate, we will subdivide society until we are all the only member of our own unique group of one, I think we could call it being an individual.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:00 am

JohnMac wrote:It's a sad sad world world when people are so easily offended and I would happily quote this at any A to Z meeting.

My own opinion is if the op feels the need to form a group then fine go ahead but I do not feel the need to join it, or any other exclusive club to support Burnley.

So why have you felt the need to come on the thread to say you don't feel the need to join it. I'm sure the op wasn't reaching out to you anyway. No one, but no one, comes on other supporter club requests/threads and preaches to the op about how they are 'separating themselves' from the rest of Burnley supporters. So why this one?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:09 am

AliceDevine wrote:Did you ask the disabled supporters club why they have one? or Accy clarets why they have one?

In my mind an LGBTQ+ supporters club would be open to anyone who felt a connection to, or support for the aims of the supporters club,

What like being a Burnley fan.

With Accy Gay supporters are welcome, obviously, Gracey and Tony are clearly in love, and a disabled lad travels too.

I don't get how wanting to be fully accepted and integrated into society it makes any sense to set yourself aside.

Accy Clarets on average taking 2 coaches is generally made up of approximately 20 from Nelson/Colne 50 from Burnley 30 from Accy.
The Accrington lads and lasses don't get all holier than thou and sit on a coach with 20 empty seats.
You are welcome, you may have traveled, how would I know, why would I care, you're a claret.
Now I actually don't have any friends, that I know of,????, that are LGBTQ, so it' sounds like I'm not welcome in your club or on your coach if I don't have any links, so how will it ever be a natural part of my life, if I'm excluded?
Seems like a backward step to me.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:12 am

4 pages, and people still don't get it.

I dunno why I'm surprised on here by that, but I still am.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:16 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:4 pages, and people still don't get it.

I dunno why I'm surprised on here by that, but I still am.

Couldn't you just tell us what we don't get? ......please.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:19 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:4 pages, and people still don't get it.

I dunno why I'm surprised on here by that, but I still am.

But apparently everyone's fine with it and their isn't a problem. Society's ills are fixed (as long as those gays keep quiet and don't bother the rest of us of course).

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:19 am

Read the thread Bleeding.

Read the thread

Its really obvious*

*to those of us who live in the 21st century

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:32 am

BleedingClaret wrote:Now I actually don't have any friends, that I know of,????, that are LGBTQ, so it' sounds like I'm not welcome in your club or on your coach if I don't have any links, so how will it ever be a natural part of my life, if I'm excluded?
Seems like a backward step to me.

Nowhere have I, or anyone else actually said that. In my opinion it would be open to ANYONE that supported Burnley regardless of gender, faith, sexuality providing they were happy and willing to promote and nurture an open and supportive environment and that they supported the aims and objectives (what ever they turned out to be) of the club.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:42 am

This thread makes painful reading....

There is potentially a section of fans that wish to form a group so they can support each other with something that is frowned upon by some people in society.
They're not asking to move seats, although that may happen, nor are they asking for segregation or special requirements.
They just want to know they aren't alone sometimes and if they need to talk to someone then they can about both football and non footballing issues.

It isn't bloody rocket science...

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:46 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:This stretches far beyond BFC though. It's the constant need to feel accepted and the need for equality that's so great that it is lost on some that it already exists. I do believe that everyone should be treated the same but somewhere along the line the very definition of equality has been lost.

I took a gay Ipswich supporter to the blackburn and burnley game a few seasoms ago who was a friend of my then gf from her uni. I took him with the lads and to this day they did not know he was gay, not because I was ashamed of telling them it was because it didn't matter at all. And there were no problems. That in my opinion is the definition of treating someone with the human equality they deserve. Having a separate group is most certainly not.

Hi gff, I support Alice's proposal for a Burnley FC LGBTQ+ supporters group. Many of the "hostile" statements on this thread demonstrate why a LBGTQ+ supporters group is a great idea. When will the group have fulfilled its purpose? When will equality exist? I guess when we are all members of the LGBQT+ group, perhaps when the "+" includes all those who don't currently feel that they would qualify as a member of the group.

You describe taking "a gay Ipswich supporter" to a game. So, there were no homophobic chants at that game? There were no conversations "with the lads" that might make your Ipswich friend feel uncomfortable? Nothing where he needed to pretend to be something he wasn't?

UTC

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:49 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Read the thread Bleeding.

Read the thread

Its really obvious*

*to those of us who live in the 21st century

I'm a scanner not a reader but if you're suggesting there is prejudice, of course there is, but combating it is surely about integration and inclusion and not separation?
I can understand a LGBTQ nightclub, because the reason people go to clubs is to be around their preferred kind of people and environment, but with BFC the reason, the commonality, is surely football and BFC.
Should they get their own seating block, stewarded off and their own half time area, that wouldn't help it to be accepted as the norm, just be a claret and be gay or not.
There's a strange relationship at Southern away games between the new attending Premier League away games Southern Clarets and Northern Clarets.
20 years ago the hardcore 1000 away fans were natural with each other wherever they were from but the extra numbers and no spaces between is a little awkward at times, should we segregate or let it blend.
Now if we split the away allocation to those who wanted to stand and those that wanted to sit that is practicality.
For football supporting why is gender and sexual preference an issue to those of LGBTQ?
Sounds like an stance that you're either with us or you're not, a look at us we are different, special maybe, and that's not very liberal or progressive in my opinion.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:51 am

If you're heterosexual and attend with your partner no one is going to care if you hold hands, kiss etc.

The same cannot be said for other sexualities.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:52 am

Of course, and maybe in our lifetime we will reach that level of understanding and tolerance.

We are not anywhere near that now, especially at football matches, and probably especially in northern towns like Burnley.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:54 am

Has anyone suggested that LGBT people get their own seating section?