jerusalem

[tim_noone]

Last night at the proms and a great rendition from hyde park eniskillen and the albert hall......long may it contiue. To absent freinds where ever they shine!

[Bin Ont Turf]

I was just about to start a thread about the Last Night At The Proms, but this will do.

Plenty of absolute tossers there waving the EU flag and trying to politicise the event.

I think it's great that we see so many different nations flags being waved, but them whining tossers waving the EU flag should have been taken out the back and had the flag shoved up their arse.

[IanMcL]

Singing Jerusalem should have the same punishment.

[IanMcL]

Not only that. Anyone singing 'for the sake of' in Auld lang syne should have their larynx removed.

[tim_noone]

Singing Jerusalem should have the same punishment.

I personally love the song ....though if im honest havent researched the jerusalem bit.that said its great to see everyone in great voice and enjoying themselves at the event. I kind of understand why turf moor is a little flat on the singing front now.

[nil_desperandum]

I was just about to start a thread about the Last Night At The Proms, but this will do.

Plenty of absolute tossers there waving the EU flag and trying to politicise the event.

I think it's great that we see so many different nations flags being waved, but them whining tossers waving the EU flag should have been taken out the back and had the flag shoved up their arse.

I think you'll find that waving the EU flag has been v common at the Last Night of the Proms for many, many years. It's a major international festival, as was demonstrated by the wide range of music performed throughout the season, and indeed this evening, and the majority of artists taking part are from the international stage. It's also transmitted all over Europe, and beyond.
Why is it such an issue that people wave an EU flag but you think it's great that "so many different nations flags" are being waved?. I really don't get that.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I just find it bemusing that people want to wave flags on behalf of a trading block. I get the bit about some people want to stay in it, but I don't get how you can be patriotic for a trading block, to an even greater degree than your own country.

Come to think of it, I can't figure out why it has a flag in the first place (not to mention a political union, unelected president, anthem, army and currency).

I couldn't imagine it for the other trading blocks like EFTA, ASEAN, NAFTA, Aus/NewZea etc. Quite bizarre.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Why is it such an issue that people wave an EU flag but you think it's great that "so many different nations flags" are being waved?. I really don't get that.

It's pretty easy to understand.

You have a Lithuanian national there waving a Lithuanian flag, someone from Japan waving a Japanese flag, a Swede waving the Swedish flag etc.

Then you have someone from Leamington Spa waving an EU flag (that they got at the door) because a vote didn't go the way he/she wanted it to.

[nil_desperandum]

I just find it bemusing that people want to wave flags on behalf of a trading block. I get the bit about some people want to stay in it, but I don't get how you can be patriotic for a trading block, to an even greater degree than your own country.
.

Fair enough comments above, but I think you'll find that a large number of Europeans associate the EU with peace, harmony and a sense of belonging together, and a flag is symbolic of this relationship. (Let's not forget that up until the last 60 years the European superpowers have virtually constantly been at war with each other).
The French are a very patriotic nation, but pretty much everywhere you see a French flag you'll find the EU flag alongside it. This is something we've never fully embraced in the UK.
The Proms is a great celebration of music, a universal language and an art form that crosses boundaries and divisions. It has the capacity to bring together people of all races, cultures, gender, sexuality etc. in a way that virtually nothing else does. The way that Europeans embrace and participate in our "Last Night", is something we should celebrate, and - so far as I'm concerned the more diverse the audience and the flags the better.

[tim_noone]

It's pretty easy to understand.

You have a Lithuanian national there waving a Lithuanian flag, someone from Japan waving a Japanese flag, a Swede waving the Swedish flag etc.

Then you have someone from Leamington Spa waving an EU flag (that they got at the door) because a vote didn't go the way he/she wanted it to.

How do you know what they were thinking?

[nil_desperandum]

It's pretty easy to understand.

You have a Lithuanian national there waving a Lithuanian flag, someone from Japan waving a Japanese flag, a Swede waving the Swedish flag etc.

Then you have someone from Leamington Spa waving an EU flag (that they got at the door) because a vote didn't go the way he/she wanted it to.

How do you know where these people come from? I bet that all those waving EU flags are from the EU, and as I said, people have been doing it for years, so why should they stop now?
Is it going to be an offence in post-Brexit Britain to carry a flag that's not the Union Jack or the St George?
What about the Proms themselves? Are we to ban non- British artists and music? I think you're getting a bit carried away.
Leaving the EU? Yes. Banning the flag? This is why some Brexiteers, (I'm sure a minority), are getting a reputation for being a bit fascist.

[tim_noone]

Fair enough comments above, but I think you'll find that a large number of Europeans associate the EU with peace, harmony and a sense of belonging together, and a flag is symbolic of this relationship. (Let's not forget that up until the last 60 years the European superpowers have virtually constantly been at war with each other).
The French are a very patriotic nation, but pretty much everywhere you see a French flag you'll find the EU flag alongside it. This is something we've never fully embraced in the UK.
The Proms is a great celebration of music, a universal language and an art form that crosses boundaries and divisions. It has the capacity to bring together people of all races, cultures, gender, sexuality etc. in a way that virtually nothing else does. The way that Europeans embrace and participate in our "Last Night", is something we should celebrate, and - so far as I'm concerned the more diverse the audience and the flags the better.

I aggree totally with your words. The point of the thred was how people embrace the occassion and enjoy themselves and have done for over a hundred years... some prefer to 'remain' miserable with anything enjoyable in life.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Volunteers for EU Flags Proms Team will stage their publicity stunt outside the concert venue to highlight how “music is a universal language” that transcends borders.

a campaign group handing out 10,000 pro-EU flags to audience members at the BBC’s Last Night of the Proms show.

From the EU my arse.

[nil_desperandum]

From the EU my arse.

I think you fell for that one.

[nil_desperandum]

With regards to flags. I think it should be pointed out that EU flags were actually banned from the Proms concerts this season - except for tonight, and whilst it is the case that EU flags were made available outside the hall for those who wanted them, it was publicised in advance by some tabloids, and there was absolutely nothing to prevent other people dishing out Union Jacks.

[Bin Ont Turf]

I think you fell for that one.

I do struggle with a wind instrument.

[RingoMcCartney]

I think you'll find that waving the EU flag has been v common at the Last Night of the Proms for many, many years. It's a major international festival, as was demonstrated by the wide range of music performed throughout the season, and indeed this evening, and the majority of artists taking part are from the international stage. It's also transmitted all over Europe, and beyond.
Why is it such an issue that people wave an EU flag but you think it's great that "so many different nations flags" are being waved?. I really don't get that.

"Why is it such an issue that people wave an EU flag but you think it's great that "so many different nations flags" are being waved?. I really don't get that."

Because the EU isn't a nation.

I know that's what the eurocrats have had planned all along. Despite telling the gullible europhiles and Remoaners it wasn't.

Nations are nations. The EU is a failed experiment......

[Vintage Claret]

Great anthem.
Reminds me of schooldays at BGS.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Great anthem.
Reminds me of schooldays at BGS.

I used to love going to church with the school to sing all the hymns.

I've never been religious but there was something proper about singing hymns in a church (a real church and not one of them modern lego sets).

The Lord is my Shepherd being my favourite.

[tim_noone]

I shall not want.....really?

[nil_desperandum]

"Why is it such an issue that people wave an EU flag but you think it's great that "so many different nations flags" are being waved?. I really don't get that."

Because the EU isn't a nation.

I know that's what the eurocrats have had planned all along. Despite telling the gullible europhiles and Remoaners it wasn't.

Nations are nations. The EU is a failed experiment......

Ringo, I already answered this point in post 9, though Crosspool made your point much more sensibly.
I note that you are once again trotting out the "remoaner" line. I didn't see much "remoaning" at the Albert Hall this evening. It was an occasion of great joy, with people of all countries, politics, backgrounds and beliefs celebrating our shared cultural heritage, (in a peculiarly "British" way)
As for the failed "EU experiment", you need to open your eyes. As I pointed out in a subsequent post, Europe is enjoying a period of unprecedented peace, and due to the Single Market and Customs Union countries from the East of the continent are beginning to enjoy a standard of living they could not have dreamed of 60 years ago. Additionally good practice in science, education ,and industry is shared throughout the area, and young people are free to travel and work wherever they want, (and can do so easily thanks to the harmonisation of air travel and health cover throughout the EU).
Of course there's much about the EU that could be improved, but its achievements in a relatively short period of time are quite remarkable. If you think that the EU is failing or likely to fail anytime soon, you should try living or working out there for a while, and I think you'll get a rather different picture.

[Saxoman]

All I think of when church is mentioned is dodgy vicars or priests..

[RingoMcCartney]

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green? 
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen? And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic mills? Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire! I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

Dark satanic mills, clouded hills and pleasant pastures.

After days and days of grey, cold and miserable damp days. You can be driving around here on the tops somewhere, and the sun will come out and light up the valley before you. And it looks entirely different.

When I hear this hymn I think of those who toiled for 12 hour shifts in cotton mills and till dinner time on Saturday. The men would go on't Turf Saturday afternoon, after looking forward to it all their working week.

Sunday, after mass/church, would be for rest and their family. And in summer they'd, perhaps, go up on the hills, with their loved ones, and fill their lungs with clean, fresh air, and look down on the green lush valleys that give way to the harsh grey towns where they'll return to, to begin another gruelling week in the "satanic mills".

Jerusalem could never be the national anthem for England's common man, the South would never accept it. But it could easily be Burnleys....

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo, I already answered this point in post 9, though Crosspool made your point much more sensibly.
I note that you are once again trotting out the "remoaner" line. I didn't see much "remoaning" at the Albert Hall this evening. It was an occasion of great joy, with people of all countries, politics, backgrounds and beliefs celebrating our shared cultural heritage, (in a peculiarly "British" way)
As for the failed "EU experiment", you need to open your eyes. As I pointed out in a subsequent post, Europe is enjoying a period of unprecedented peace, and due to the Single Market and Customs Union countries from the East of the continent are beginning to enjoy a standard of living they could not have dreamed of 60 years ago. Additionally good practice in science, education ,and industry is shared throughout the area, and young people are free to travel and work wherever they want, (and can do so easily thanks to the harmonisation of air travel and health cover throughout the EU).
Of course there's much about the EU that could be improved, but its achievements in a relatively short period of time are quite remarkable. If you think that the EU is failing or likely to fail anytime soon, you should try living or working out there for a while, and I think you'll get a rather different picture.

The EU - Don't believe the hype.

[tim_noone]

Englands common man is usually on here arguing and mainly from Burnley,But that apart i like your sentiments.

[RingoMcCartney]

Englands common man is usually on here arguing and mainly from Burnley,But that apart i like your sentiments.

Cheers for that.

[andyh]

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green? 
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen? And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic mills? Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire! I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

Dark satanic mills, clouded hills and pleasant pastures.

After days and days of grey, cold and miserable damp days. You can be driving around here on the tops somewhere, and the sun will come out and light up the valley before you. And it looks entirely different.

When I hear this hymn I think of those who toiled for 12 hour shifts in cotton mills and till dinner time on Saturday. The men would go on't Turf Saturday afternoon, after looking forward to it all their working week.

Sunday, after mass/church, would be for rest and their family. And in summer they'd, perhaps, go up on the hills, with their loved ones, and fill their lungs with clean, fresh air, and look down on the green lush valleys that give way to the harsh grey towns where they'll return to, to begin another gruelling week in the "satanic mills".

Jerusalem could never be the national anthem for England's common man, the South would never accept it. But it could easily be Burnleys....

You are aware that the satanic mills were the Orthodox Church don't you?

[RingoMcCartney]

You are aware that the satanic mills were the Orthodox Church don't you?

No I didn't to be honest. But coming from round here, when I hear "dark satanic mills". I can't help think of a mill worker, with his family, all in their Sunday Best, on a gloriously sunny Sunday afternoon. Looking down on, firstly, green lush pastures, then the dark satanic mill where he'll spend another gruelling, 5 and a half day week. His hearts sinks, momentarily, but he then looks at his loved ones with pride, and his spirits are restored once again. His youngest lad then challenges him to a race to gate at the bottom of the field. It was a great day!

So no, l genuinely didn't realise it was a reference to the orthodox church. But that's the image that great song conjures up.

[JohnMcGreal]

I was just about to start a thread about the Last Night At The Proms, but this will do.

Plenty of absolute tossers there waving the EU flag and trying to politicise the event.

I think it's great that we see so many different nations flags being waved, but them whining tossers waving the EU flag should have been taken out the back and had the flag shoved up their arse.

It sounds like this snowflake needs a safe space.

[UpTheBeehole]

I think it's perfectly acceptable to wave a European flag at the Last Night of the Proms, when the evening's setlist includes music from:

Richard Wagner(Germany)
Lotta Wennakoski (Finland)
Zoltan Kodaly (Hungary)
Jean Sibelius (Finland, again)

performed by a Swedish soprano, among others

[fatboy47]

You are aware that the satanic mills were the Orthodox Church don't you?

Pompous post...and not necessarily even correct.

Blake never explained his meaning, and the various interpretations on offer are merely the guesses of different academics.

[andyh]

Pompous post...and not necessarily even correct.

Blake never explained his meaning, and the various interpretations on offer are merely the guesses of different academics.

Your tone is a model I will strive to emulate.

As for the poem's meaning Blake was a radical in an intolerant era. His opening lines can all be answered no. It is a poem of hidden meanings behind a thin facade of respectability. Doesn't make it bad. It is bit like my 8 yr old singing Katie Perry songs. Or do you think those should be taken at face value too.

[fatboy47]

You stated what is speculation as fact in an attempt to make another poster look small.

I've nothing to add.

No doubt you will have.

[andyh]

I've obviously done something to offend you. I did not mean to, nor to belittle anyone.

Blake was a radical that is a fact. His beliefs were not mainstream church belief that too is a fact.

To me it be a real work of art, and the words gain more significance when you know what Blake was trying to do within the world he lived.

I thought it was informative and even if it is unproved it is widely theorised that the mills are indeed churches and you wont find any academics arguing that the hymn should be taken at face value.

[DavidFishwicksDad]

Beautiful city utc

[IanMcL]

Beautiful city utc

Burnley is a town.

[DavidFishwicksDad]

Burnley is a town.

It's not colne though utc

[Siddo]

I've just bought the book and there are some interesting looking recipes in it.