Middle aged white men in the media

CaptainKirk · Post by **CaptainKirk** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:02 pm

A dying breed if ever there was one.
I know the BBC and others have an agenda to increase the representation of women and also minority groups on our screens - no problem with that.
It does seem to me though that they are going overboard with it.

The News is almost always a woman/black woman/black man who usually hands over to someone similar. Adverts are the same and I never realised that 50% of the couples in this country are one black one white. How long before Kellogs Cornflakes feature a same sex couple (one black and one white of course) with kids that look like they have been borrowed from Angelina Jolie or Madonna?

There was a scene in the Rovers pub on Coronation St recently with about 10 people in the building comprised of: 4 black people, 4 gay people 1 disabled person and one middle aged white man (a wannabee serial killer).

Before I get insulted and/or blocked: I do not have anything against any of this except the scale of it being pushed by the Media.
Stand up for middle aged, white, male old farts I say.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:06 pm

Randomly I always thought the best news reader was Trevor McDonald.

Moira Stuart was the best female one when she was on there.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:15 pm

CaptainKirk wrote:A dying breed if ever there was one.
I know the BBC and others have an agenda to increase the representation of women and also minority groups on our screens - no problem with that.
It does seem to me though that they are going overboard with it.

The News is almost always a woman/black woman/black man who usually hands over to someone similar. Adverts are the same and I never realised that 50% of the couples in this country are one black one white. How long before Kellogs Cornflakes feature a same sex couple (one black and one white of course) with kids that look like they have been borrowed from Angelina Jolie or Madonna?

There was a scene in the Rovers pub on Coronation St recently with about 10 people in the building comprised of: 4 black people, 4 gay people 1 disabled person and one middle aged white man (a wannabee serial killer).

Before I get insulted and/or blocked: I do not have anything against any of this except the scale of it being pushed by the Media.
Stand up for middle aged, white, male old farts I say.

no they've had their day....jimmy Rolf and Stuart to blame....I cringe when I see white middle aged men now

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:20 pm

Similar situation in the services.

They "need" to have certain amounts of women and minority persons in.
I get why some should be in, as different skills needed for different scenarios.

However if a 10 vacancies become available, and 100 apply, I want the best 10 officers/firefighters etc, not the best 4, then the 41st because they were gay, then the 56th and 62nd best as they were black, then the 77th because she was female and the 83rd and 91st because they were registered as disabled.

The best people for the job is what it should happen, not whoever fits the equal opps ratios.

It is like the manager whinging Dwight Yorke does, you are not good enough, stop using a race/gender/sex card.

Edit - I couldn't care less if they were Martians, if my child is In need of urgent assistance, I want the best available person for the job.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:21 pm

Don't worry, the stuff Captain Kirk bemoans is purely cosmetic. Much of the power in this country lies with middle-aged white men whether in commerce, finance or politics.
I'm afraid the blessed Theresa proves the point. She is PM in name only.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:31 pm

Positive discrimination. Ultimately the middle aged white man could be discriminated against. Employers shouldn't be allowed to pick the best candidates regardless of background when there are forms and quotas to be completed. That makes far too much common sense and could be doing some form checker at the equality commission out of a job.

Zesty · Post by **Zesty** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:34 pm

Stupid, just like in the music awards and acting people complaining lack of black people.

If you're good enough then you'll be involved not just put in for a skin colour, which is kinda racist in itself

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:37 pm

The notion that the media isn't still dominated by middle aged white men is nearly laughable as the notion that it should be.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:50 pm

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:52 pm

I have to agree. Despite me being ahem more generous down South Lukaku gets the bl00dy song. Hope it doesn't stop the film parts rolling in.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:00 pm

Why they can’t just have a transgender lesbian mixed race blind disabled person doing it all I don’t know...

DISCLAIMER Tongue firmly set in cheek

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:04 pm

Regarding your opening post CaptainKirk. How does seeing more women and black people affect you? I don't see how you find it offensive or how it concerns you?

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:15 pm

I completely agree and It's a sign of the left pushing their agendas. It happens in the football though as they pan into the crowd. The BBC is by far the worst of the lot. They are the ultimate propaganda machine and we have to pay for the privilege.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:17 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:Regarding your opening post CaptainKirk. How does seeing more women and black people affect you? I don't see how you find it offensive or how it concerns you?

He obviously isn't concerned about that. It's a concern at how hard they're trying to force it. It's ridiculous. Positive discrimination (as mentioned earlier on in this thread) does more harm than good.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:22 pm

Ummm, it's like... called progress? Perhaps you have heard of it.

If you are such a backwards bigot that you can't handle that then you should probably go back to your brexit hole; damn white supremacist.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:34 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:Regarding your opening post CaptainKirk. How does seeing more women and black people affect you? I don't see how you find it offensive or how it concerns you?

The flip side is to ask, why does it seem to effect people if a certain number of people on TV, Services, football managers, footballers are not women, black, gay etc.

I don't walk into the doctors with my child and think "On my last 4 visits here, I have not had a white doctor, they must employ 75% white people to show a fair reflection on the UK"
I want my sick child seeing to, hopefully with the best available person for the job.
In a similar way, I don't think football chairmen/owners think, I am not giving them a job, because they are black. I heard one sport has a Rooney rule ( stuck in my head as thought was Wayne, but was a completely different sport ) that I think means a certain number of black people get at least an interview for the job.
Seems little strange to me.

I have often found, the ones who often push the race card or are offended for others, are usually the racist ones who see a none existent racial comment/meaning. Banging the racist drum so all can hear, yet it is them who has had that exact thought themselves, whilst the initial person had no idea, nor intended for it to cause offence or distress.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:49 pm

Middle aged white men are an endangered species everywhere, not just the media.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:58 pm

I don't understand why people are threatened by White Middle Aged men making way for others in the media.

As for recruitment, is it fair that people born with a different skin colour or genitalia should be overlooked? Having a transparent and equal process still determines the best person is employed for the job.

Leon C · Post by **Leon C** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:01 pm

Keep your printer running with printer ink cartridges and toner. £

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:11 pm

Well if it's any consoloation ive just turned the telly on (emmerdale i think) and a middle aged white man appeasr to have spent the night buggering a young handsome man who has just woken up next to him.All consensual mind..but 8pm tad early id say.

It is true the mainstream media/soaps etc do peddle a rather OTT bias with women/mixed race couples/homosexuals etc and it is a bit at odds with many people. But you gotta remembevr in this day and age noone dare be called out as non conforming to any sexual or race bias and therefore every company and organisation over compensates to say "look we're all more diverse than you, we have more black people more gay people more women and even a man who used to be Albert but he's now "Sarah Jane" etc etc

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:19 pm

I just can't picture Albert tatlock as Sarah jane not in a million years!

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:23 pm

Instead of struggling through life as a "normal" white heterosexual, I should have had a transgender operation a long time ago, and all of my problems would have been solved. I take that back. I probably would have ended up a Woevers fan. They're all "that way", aren't they?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:26 pm

Blackrod wrote:Positive discrimination. Ultimately the middle aged white man could be discriminated against. Employers shouldn't be allowed to pick the best candidates regardless of background when there are forms and quotas to be completed. That makes far too much common sense and could be doing some form checker at the equality commission out of a job.

Have you considered the idea that middle aged white men may not be amongst the best candidates for many of these media jobs, and that's why you're seeing more diversity?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:30 pm

If white, middle aged males are being marginalised yet Paddy ******* McGuiness keeps getting work.

There's something wrong somewhere.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:33 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:If white, middle aged males are being marginalised yet Paddy ******* McGuiness keeps getting work.

There's something wrong somewhere.

One for the pr!ck list?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:36 pm

tim_noone wrote:One for the pr!ck list?

Me or Paddy?

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:37 pm

No, Greenmile, I don't believe that. I do believe that in this age of political correctness, that everybody operates on some kind of quota system. That's alright, in my days as a life insurance underwriter, I saw people constantly being promoted because of what they were, not competency. I'm just glad that I got out when I did, before I went totally insane (in comparison to only half-insane, which I am now.)

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:41 pm

Listen, I admit. There are many things that females are better at than me (especially typing, as I sit here and peck this out). I just had a great deal of trouble with a French-Canadian lesbian, who was more concerned about my filing system than the underwriting decisions that I made.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:46 pm

ontario claret wrote:No, Greenmile, I don't believe that. I do believe that in this age of political correctness, that everybody operates on some kind of quota system. That's alright, in my days as a life insurance underwriter, I saw people constantly being promoted because of what they were, not competency. I'm just glad that I got out when I did, before I went totally insane (in comparison to only half-insane, which I am now.)

I didn't ask whether you believed it, only if you've considered the possibility, and I was talking (in the context of the OP) about media jobs, not underwriting ones.

I'm willing to accept that positive discrimination exists and that it is not always a good thing, although the Rooney rule mentioned by someone else was quite effective in increasing the number of ethnic minority coaches in the NFL, despite requiring no preference to be shown when it came to the actual hiring of coaches, only at the interview stage.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:48 pm

In fairness though can anyone think of anyhting more offputting than a "white middle aged man" I get a vision of belly overhanging,ill fitting clothes golf clubby florid faced,moaning well past their prime and a bit more of a perv than they uised to be.Give me a racy young balck girl or a couple of lipstick lesbians reading the news anyday.

Seriously though i dont think the vast majority of peaople give a flying feck who "gets the job" etc long as the person is the best candidate regardless of the field then thats all good. It's positive discrimination that tends to end in bitterness tears and recriminations

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:53 pm

Media. Underwriting. The same principles apply. Wrong is wrong.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:58 pm

How would you feel if your boss's boss's boss daughter-in-law was parachuted into your department and named a senior underwriter within 3 months while you were assigning work to other underwriters (a management function), while still classified as a "trainee" while handling twice the workload of anybody else, three years into you getting the position? Would you be happy?

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:01 pm

And I'm familiar with the Rooney Rule, but how many minority coaches have showed a definite superiority to white ones over an extended period of time? I would suggest none.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:01 pm

White, straight, male and proud if it.

I Welcome and treat all with any differences to those as an equal.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:02 pm

ontario claret wrote:How would you feel if your boss's boss's boss daughter-in-law was parachuted into your department and named a senior underwriter within 3 months while you were assigning work to other underwriters (a management function), while still classified as a "trainee" while handling twice the workload of anybody else, three years into you getting the position? Would you be happy?

This seems very specific. Did it happen to you? Do you think that this personal experience may have altered your views on this subject?

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:02 pm

The one field where minority coaches have an edge is when they relate to their players, who are predominately of colour and love Drake.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:06 pm

ontario claret wrote:And I'm familiar with the Rooney Rule, but how many minority coaches have showed a definite superiority to white ones over an extended period of time? I would suggest none.

Given your location, you probably know more about it than I do but Wikipedia says "At the start of the 2006 season, the overall percentage of African American coaches had jumped to 22%, up from 6% prior to the Rooney Rule", which suggests that at least a few black coaches interviewed better than white ones at that time, since there was no requirement to hire them, only to interview them.

The same Wikipedia page suggests that Mike Tomlin, for one, has a pretty good record.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:14 pm

I don't think that I'm the only one who had this experience (I couldn't make it up.) I have a good friend who worked for the provincial Ministry of Revenue who was treated the same way. I call it "Homer Simpsonism", the idea that because you're a white male, you're some kind of dolt. My experience in the field of American private life and health insurance was that most sales field personnel were almost exclusively motivated by personal greed. There were exceptions. Our Minnesota office was great to work with, but our Chicago manager was an out-and-out crook, who always had something going on the side with his brokers, and who took a 19-year-old with him to the Caribbean when he won a sales competition, and left the wife at home. The Los Angeles office were all coke addicts, and our only existing contract in the state of New York was to the longshoreman's union in the city of New York. It was arranged by our Italian-Canadian sales manager. Can you say "Mafia connection"?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:19 pm

ontario claret wrote:I don't think that I'm the only one who had this experience (I couldn't make it up.) I have a good friend who worked for the provincial Ministry of Revenue who was treated the same way. I call it "Homer Simpsonism", the idea that because you're a white male, you're some kind of dolt. My experience in the field of American private life and health insurance was that most sales field personnel were almost exclusively motivated by personal greed. There were exceptions. Our Minnesota office was great to work with, but our Chicago manager was an out-and-out crook, who always had something going on the side with his brokers, and who took a 19-year-old with him to the Caribbean when he won a sales competition, and left the wife at home. The Los Angeles office were all coke addicts, and our only existing contract in the state of New York was to the longshoreman's union in the city of New York. It was arranged by our Italian-Canadian sales manager. Can you say "Mafia connection"?

Sounds pretty bad, but more to do with nepotism and terrible managers than positive discrimination.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:20 pm

Mike Tomlin is a below-average coach in my opinion, who gets by on attitude alone. The best black coach ever was the late Dennis (I can't remember his last name), who coached in both Minnesota and Arizona, and got his start at Stanford University, but who was saddled with inferior personnel. Really, really bright guy who knew how to motivate his players, but was also great x's and o's guy. As you know, American football is very technical, and he was a great innovator.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:24 pm

I worked for Canada Life. We were #5 in Canada, and trying to break into the American market. It was mid-'80s, and we were very naive. Free trade had just started under Brian Mulroney and his "on the take" Tories. We got our asses kicked in that deal, but I did the right thing in getting out when I did.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:28 pm

Dennis Green. Great coach, but was touched by scandal at the end of his tenor.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:28 pm

ontario claret wrote:Mike Tomlin is a below-average coach in my opinion, who gets by on attitude alone. The best black coach ever was the late Dennis (I can't remember his last name), who coached in both Minnesota and Arizona, and got his start at Stanford University, but who was saddled with inferior personnel. Really, really bright guy who knew how to motivate his players, but was also great x's and o's guy. As you know, American football is very technical, and he was a great innovator.

As I say you no doubt know better than I, and I realise stats can't tell the whole story, but this shows Tomlin has a win ratio of 64.4% and has reached two Superbowls, winning one, whilst Dennis Green has a win record of 54.6% (very few draws in NFL of course) and only managed two "semi finals".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, the Vikings and Cardinals may be the Accrington Stanley to Pittsburgh's Barcelona, which would make Green a better coach than Tomlin.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:28 pm

Oops, tenure.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:34 pm

In football, the general manager and the coach are two totally different positions. Especially with the drafting system, a very good coach can be saddled with totally inferior players. Tomlin has always had "Big Ben" Roethlisberger, one of the best 2 or 3 pure passers in the NFL, plus the Steelers mystique, which is always good for extra points, especially at home.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:35 pm

The Terrible Towels. They still wave them in Pittsburgh.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:25 pm

ontario claret wrote:How would you feel if your boss's boss's boss daughter-in-law was parachuted into your department and named a senior underwriter within 3 months while you were assigning work to other underwriters (a management function), while still classified as a "trainee" while handling twice the workload of anybody else, three years into you getting the position? Would you be happy?

I think nepotism is your problem here.

As for middle aged white men not dominating the media, this clearly isn't the case. It may be that they don't dominate to the same extent as in the past but the fact that it's notable that they don't suggests it probably was an issue.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:41 pm

Just wait till James Bond pops up with an afro

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:49 pm

Belial wrote:Just wait till James Bond pops up with an afro

He'll say to the bird behind the bar when ordering his Martini, don't shake it woman...... stir it up, little darling stir it up.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:54 pm

As a white middle aged man who works in the media (TV, Film, Theatre etc) I can tell you it's still very much entirely composed of white middle aged white men or WMAM, though white middle aged women show up a lot more as they are far more sensible at things.

Almost all key roles are WMAM. Director 95%, Cinamatographer 95%, Sound recordist 91%, Writer 86% etc

All you are seeing is people who are in very prominent roles eg: Newsreaders, who used to be almost exclusively WMAM. And maybe the reason a soap opera has a very diverse cast is due to the nature of soaps opera and their OTT plots, a show full of WMAM would be as boring and tedious as a thread about how oppressed WMAM are these days.

Although it's on film not TV, this article was released only yesterday on how the proportion of females in film roles hasn't changed in 100 years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41320758" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;