Ted Heath

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:06 am

Wiltshire Police say Ted Heath would have been interviewed under caution over child abuse allegations if alive.

These allegations include the rape of a boy under 16, and indecent assault.

http://news.sky.com/story/sir-edward-he ... e-11067641

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:09 am

Daily Telegraph report states:

A controversial police investigation exploring whether Sir Edward Heath was a paedophile has concluded he would be questioned under caution if he were still alive over seven alleged offences, including one claim he raped an 11-year-old rent boy in 1961.

The report stresses that “no inference of guilt can be drawn from the decision to interview under caution” and also accepts that other that the allegations themselves, there is no other evidence available to corroborate the claims.

It has been condemned as a "whitewash" by Heath supporters.

Ken Macdonald the former Director of Public Prosecutions, said: “It is no surprise at all that Wiltshire police should have concluded that they would have interviewed Sir Edward had he been alive.

"This gives entirely bogus credibility to their investigation without meaning anything in forensic terms. The bar for interview is low, in most investigations as low as the police want it to be and in the case of a dead man, virtually non- existent. They are covering their backs at the expense of a dead man. Shame on them.”

The Sir Edward Heath Charitable Foundation have described the report as "leaving Heath's reputation in limbo" and called for a judge led inquiry.

A statement released by Lord Hunt of Wirral and Lord Armstrong of Ilminster, former Cabinet Secretary and PPS to Edward Heath while Prime Minister, said: "The Wiltshire Police report is profoundly unsatisfactory because it neither justifies nor dispels the cloud of suspicion.

"Sir Edward Heath’s reputation should not be left in limbo. The allegations made to and the evidence collected by the police should be independently reviewed and an independent conclusion arrived at. That is the only way in which justice can be done."

Operation Conifer, Wiltshire Police’s two year inquiry into the late former Prime Minister, received 42 allegations against him involving 40 separate complainants, dating from 1956 to 1992.

The allegations span child sexual abuse, physical abuse and also sexual abuse against an adult.

The most serious claim relates to the alleged rape of an 11-year-old boy, when Sir Edward was the MP for Bexley in 1961.

The alleged victim came forward in April 2015 before Wiltshire Police made a public appeal for “victims” to come forward.

The report also details an allegation that in 1962, Sir Edward indecently assaulted a ten year old boy during a chance encounter in a public place.

Another allegation involves a claim of indecent assault against a 15-year-old male prostitute in 1964, when Sir Edward was Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.

Wiltshire Police also received an allegation that Sir Edward indecently assaulted a 15-year-old boy during a chance encounter on Guernsey in 1967, when he was leader of the opposition.

A further allegation relates to a claim that he groped an adult male at a public event on Jersey in 1976 and the most recent allegation dates back to 1992 when he was accused of indecently assaulting a male prostitute during an encounter at a hotel.

In a 102 page summary report, Wiltshire Police said the accounts were such that the former Prime Minister would have been interviewed under caution in six of these cases.

In one of the seven cases there was “undermining evidence” relating to the allegation.

The report also concluded that 19 other allegations did not reach the threshold necessary for Sir Edward to be interviewed under caution; there were three cases of mistaken identity; ten allegations had come from a third party and three claims were made anonymously.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10 ... e-11-year/

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:21 am

42 allegations, 35 of which can be dismissed without even speaking to anyone, one of the others has evidence that suggests it isn't true, 6 of them they haven't asked any questions about, but want to tell the world about?

If there are 6 unsupported and untested allegations that the Wiltshire chief constable has sexually assaulted people, I bet they wouldn't publicise it. In fact, I bet with this lot, what they have said would be libel if Heath was still alive.

The people who knew Heath well reckon he just wasn't interested in sex. It's a modern assumption that if you're not married, you must be homosexual. It ain't necessarily so.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:24 am

First Tory nonce defender appears!

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:40 am

Oh dear! Not unexpected though!

bedswerver · Post by **bedswerver** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:47 am

Police said none of the allegations, claiming Sir Edward assaulted victims as young as 10, took place while he was Prime Minister.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:48 am

David Mellor has said it's pointless investigating claims against people who are dead.

I presume he therefore thinks it was a pointless exercise looking into all the claims against Jimmy Savile.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:52 am

I once saw him in the rainbows End pub in the Langfords, outside of Salisbury. he was accompanied by a young man, I assumed to be his secretary.

Never thought anything of it at the time. Hard to think anything now. These things are virtually impossible to corroborate, after death.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:15 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Wiltshire Police say Ted Heath would have been interviewed under caution over child abuse allegations if alive.

These allegations include the rape of a boy under 16, and indecent assault.

http://news.sky.com/story/sir-edward-he ... e-11067641

Does this tell us anything at all?
If allegations of rape of a boy were made about someone today, then I think we would all absolutely hope that the "accused" would be interviewed under caution, and it not just be swept under the carpet. So if he were still alive then obviously we would all expect Heath to be interviewed, but this in no way implies that he is guilty. He would be interviewed and then that might be the end of the matter, or it might be pursued further. Simple as that.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:19 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Does this tell us anything at all?
If allegations of rape of a boy were made about someone today, then I think we would all absolutely hope that the "accused" would be interviewed under caution, and it not just be swept under the carpet. So if he were still alive then obviously we would all expect Heath to be interviewed, but this in no way implies that he is guilty. He would be interviewed and then that might be the end of the matter, or it might be pursued further. Simple as that.

But it wouldn't be published. If someone made accusations of rape against anyone here, I doubt we'd be pleased to hear "the police have received allegations of rape against xxxx, for which we have no corroborating evidence whatsoever, so we're going to interview him" repeated round the world.

If they think there's anything in it, they should investigate - because if a senior politician is involved in serial rape, there's a fair chance he had accomplices. If they aren't even going to investigate, why publish?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:23 pm

dsr wrote:But it wouldn't be published. If someone made accusations of rape against anyone here, I doubt we'd be pleased to hear "the police have received allegations of rape against xxxx, for which we have no corroborating evidence whatsoever, so we're going to interview him" repeated round the world.

If they think there's anything in it, they should investigate - because if a senior politician is involved in serial rape, there's a fair chance he had accomplices. If they aren't even going to investigate, why publish?

In previous cases they've published information in the hope others might come forward.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:24 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:First Tory nonce defender appears!

Your user name doesn't exactly look all that good with this thread.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:26 pm

Why not ? If there was enough on him to warrant an interview or two, I think we need to know. I like the point re accomplices made above, too.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:30 pm

dermotdermot wrote:Your user name doesn't exactly look all that good with this thread.

I chose this username with fond memories of an old politician I knew as a child. He was no stranger to Turf Moor, in fact he was friends with the ex-chairman, and he always said he'd love to take me down town and then Up The Beehole.

I've got to say, I always did prefer the Longside however.

The sex was fantastic mind.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:31 pm

A thread titled "Re Ted Heath" by UpTheBeehole ?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:38 pm

Spijed wrote:In previous cases they've published information in the hope others might come forward.

They've already done that, that's how they got the 42 allegations. This report is just to explain that 35 of them can be dismissed without investigation, but they'd have a look at the other 7 if Heath was still alive.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:41 pm

Would this be linked to the paedophile ring evidence that Theresa May allegedly lost?

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:58 pm

Some info involving Treason Dismay regarding whistleblower Melanie Shaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sLDdgs59Z0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:04 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Would this be linked to the paedophile ring evidence that Theresa May allegedly lost?

No. What you've said is utter BS.

The only link between your statement and the allegations is that they didn't happen.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:08 pm

Second Tory nonce defender appears!

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:08 pm

What are the chances, a dsr/rowls 1-2!

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:11 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Second Tory nonce defender appears!

"Nonce defender"

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:12 pm

That's you

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:16 pm

fatboy47 wrote:knobbing kids and humping pig's heads is a tory thing...nothing we didnt already know...move along nothing new to see here..

Greville Janner?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:24 pm

Just imagine a scenario where you'd been raped by a man when you were still at primary school, and because of the culture at the time you couldn't report it. If you did, the police would beat you.

This man rises to become PM of the country, and all the while your story is not treated with the respect it deserves.

Your rapist eventually dies, and now you (and the many other boys he abused) can finally get a bit of closure. You still haven't had justice however.

Finally, a scandal breaks. A well known tv presenter is outed as a serial paedophile. This presenter has very close links to the political party your abuser once led, he used to eat christmas dinner with the PM at the time. The sheer number of accusers is enormous.

But still, there were those defending him, saying he couldn't defend himself against the accusations.

Nonce defenders.

Finally, after giving your evidence to a police force now willing to treat stories like yours seriously, the force publishes its report, stating that they would wish to speak to your abuser under caution. Not just you, but a number of other primary school boys who were also abused.

And the same nonce defenders crawl out of the woodwork.

Former dole office desk jerks, barmen, numerous other loser jobs, all coming together to say it didn't happen.

Despite the police having enough evidence to be confident enough to get this guy in for questioning.

Nonce defenders.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:34 pm

If I had ever met you, Beehole, and went to the police and said you'd raped me, the police would get you in for questioning.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:35 pm

If I'd ever raped you, they'd do the same

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:38 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Nonce defenders...

And the same nonce defenders crawl out of the woodwork.

Former dole office desk jerks, barmen, numerous other loser jobs, all coming together to say it didn't happen.

Nonce defenders.

This is your level.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:51 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:excuse me if I'm a little touchy when bona fide Tories such as dsr and rowls defend people like this purely because of their political affiliations.

You have to wonder whether they'd be giving the same suspicion to the victims if they were white girls being abused by asian taxi drivers.

You're not "a little touchy". You're abusive and offensive and do nothing, I repeat NOTHING, to help genuine victims of abuse.

You do worse - you tarnish the whole process.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:53 pm

"I'm going to help my friend who suffered childhood abuse by throwing baseless accusations around on the internet and following it up with coarse language, insults and attempting to belittle people."

That's a great way to help somebody. I'm sure your contribution here is really helping things.

FulledgeClaret · Post by **FulledgeClaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:53 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:
Former dole office desk jerks, barmen, numerous other loser jobs, all coming together to say it didn't happen.

.

Loser Jobs ehh, what loser job do you do.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:54 pm

This is your level.

It's also your level of "help".

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:58 pm

My level of help has been a lifetime of supporting them, of going to court with them, of being there for 20 odd years as they sob and consider taking their own life.

They're still with us, and we're hoping the **** goes down this time.

Be good to see you outside court blindly defending the accused though.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:05 pm

Equally stupid to defend or attack him. Particularly when it's explicitly because of his political leanings. Investigating dead people is fruitless but when they're this powerful and the allegations are this serious, of course it has to be done. The police have laid it out pretty fairly pointing out there is no corroborating evidence for the six (and in fact they have evidence that they say undermines the allegations in one case) but that there are enough allegations from enough sources to merit asking the alleged perpetrator if he were alive for his account.

That's good enough for me. I'm not in a position to learn anything more.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:18 pm

thatdberight wrote:Equally stupid to defend or attack him. Particularly when it's explicitly because of his political leanings. Investigating dead people is fruitless but when they're this powerful and the allegations are this serious, of course it has to be done. The police have laid it out pretty fairly pointing out there is no corroborating evidence for the six (and in fact they have evidence that they say undermines the allegations in one case) but that there are enough allegations from enough sources to merit asking the alleged perpetrator if he were alive for his account.

That's good enough for me. I'm not in a position to learn anything more.

All very reasonable, but that's not what the internet is about.

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Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:30 pm

thatdberight wrote:Equally stupid to defend or attack him. Particularly when it's explicitly because of his political leanings. Investigating dead people is fruitless but when they're this powerful and the allegations are this serious, of course it has to be done. The police have laid it out pretty fairly pointing out there is no corroborating evidence for the six (and in fact they have evidence that they say undermines the allegations in one case) but that there are enough allegations from enough sources to merit asking the alleged perpetrator if he were alive for his account.

That's good enough for me. I'm not in a position to learn anything more.

I think the allegations are an utter pile of BS.

The police have pointed out that "no inference of guilt should be implied". Fair, you might say. But then what is the point in publicizing as they have done? What on earth is gained by it?

And is it really fair to dirty the reputations of people who are not here to defend themselves? In certain circumstances the answer would be yes (when the case was overwhelming) but is that the case for Ted Heath?

The police previously described one witnesses accounts as "credible and true" and it has transpired that those allegations were proven to be complete and utter fabrications made up by someone with a very loose grasp of reality. Reading between the lines he is most likely one of the people wasting police time.

But don't the police have a duty to investigate crimes, even if the perpetrator has since died? Yes they do. But that is not what happened here. The police did not simply investigate allegations - they went fishing for them. They made numerous public appeals for "witnesses" to come forward. No wonder they have been inundated with spurious, unprovable nonsense. This is not becoming of a sensitive police investigation.

Like the false allegations aimed at Harvey Proctor, Leon Britton, Lord Bramall all of these false allegations could and should have been investigated thoroughly before being dismissed. The fact that these men were all publicly accused and suffered painfully slow investigations (before each being cleared) is a disgrace.

That the police have had to give payments to Lord Bramall and Leon Britton's widow (Leon Britton died before his name was cleared) and are currently being sued by Harvey Proctor tells you all you need to know about how well they conducted their investigation.

If Ted Heath had a widow (ho hum) I rather suspect they would also likely be coming into the receipt of yet more tax payers money thanks to this disgraceful witch hunt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09 ... le-claims/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This whole police operation has been a costly shambles. That they seek to justify it with this latest publicity stunt aimed at a dead man is appalling.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:37 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:My level of help has been a lifetime of supporting them, of going to court with them, of being there for 20 odd years as they sob and consider taking their own life.

They're still with us, and we're hoping the **** goes down this time.

Be good to see you outside court blindly defending the accused though.

Even so, false accusations do exist.

I don't blindly defend the accused, what I;m saying is the the police shouldn't be making public declarations saying that certain people have been accused of sex abuse that they don't think is worth investigating.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:40 pm

Rowls wrote:
But don't the police have a duty to investigate crimes, even if the perpetrator has since died? Yes they do. But that is not what happened here. The police did not simply investigate allegations - they went fishing for them. They made numerous public appeals for "witnesses" to come forward. No wonder they have been inundated with spurious, unprovable nonsense. This is not becoming of a sensitive police investigation.

The alleged victim came forward in April 2015 BEFORE Wiltshire Police made a public appeal for “victims” to come forward.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:43 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:The alleged victim came forward in April 2015 before Wiltshire Police made a public appeal for “victims” to come forward.

Where's this come from?

Is this the one who stands accused of wasting police time?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:47 pm

Rowls wrote:Where's this come from?

Is this the one who stands accused of wasting police time?

This is from the Daily Telegraph report right at the top of the page. Read the thread.

That sentence relates to the 11 year old boy who Heath allegedly raped.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:48 pm

In that case it does refer to "Nick" - the man who was wasting police time.

Edit - that's wrong.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:53 pm

Upthebeehole- that is one part of all these sexual cases. Bloody awful for the poor blighters young or old who are abused/raped and no one believes them-and bloody awful for those accused and subjected to public scrutiny and humiliation who are eventually not put on trial as well as those who are innocent and put on trial. Yes the likes of Saville, Harris, Hall dreadful people but what an awful situation for Cliff Richard, Tony Blackburn, Leon Brittan's family, Edwin Bramall, Harvey Proctor and many more who because of their public standing get dragged through the headlines and never get put on trial

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:53 pm

Then Tory party leader Ted Heath (then leader of HM opposition) and Burnley chairman Bob Lord following the official opening of the Bob Lord Stand in 1974.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:56 pm

dsr wrote:Even so, false accusations do exist.

I don't blindly defend the accused, what I;m saying is the the police shouldn't be making public declarations saying that certain people have been accused of sex abuse that they don't think is worth investigating.

But they do think it's worth investigating. It's just that the alleged perpetrator is dead and they have no mechanism by which to investigate.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:19 pm

Maybe of interest:

Edward Heath And Child Abuse

http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/ ... abuse.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A comprehensive article.

BFC Gold · Post by **BFC Gold** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:54 pm

Heath was undoubtedly a child sex abuser. The paedophile umbrella holding the silence is still in play, thus ultimately justice will not be served due to the fellow abusers that are still connected to the regime that still holds power and influence at the present time. How people are still not aware of this is absolutely baffling....Baaaaaaaaaaa!

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:06 pm

BFC Gold wrote:Heath was undoubtedly a child sex abuser. The paedophile umbrella holding the silence is still in play, thus ultimately justice will not be served due to the fellow abusers that are still connected to the regime that still holds power and influence at the present time. How people are still not aware of this is absolutely baffling....Baaaaaaaaaaa!

Do you want the full roll? For spares, like?

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BFC Gold · Post by **BFC Gold** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:17 pm

Wake up `o foolish one.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:36 pm

Rowls wrote:In that case it does refer to "Nick" - the man who was wasting police time.

Edit - that's wrong.

Ahh, i remember "Nick" the fantasist, James O'Brien fell for it hook line and sinker, taking everything he said as the gospel truth. He so wanted it to be true that he has blinded by the facts.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:41 pm

Cyril Smith did it and he was a liberal.

It doesn't really matter though what someone's political leanings are unless you're a moron.

A child abuser is just that regardless and IF the allegations can be proven then its fair enough if they let people out there know that someone finally cares about what happened and want to help them get justice.

Look at those who we all thought were nice and normal before they were finally caught...
(not Max Clifford, I always thought he was a bell end).
Some of it is handled badly, like Cliff Richards case, but that's sometimes unavoidable with the number of potential victims out there.