Pundit non-logic

[Claret82]

I don't know whether it's manipulative BS or stupidity but how many times have we seen managers leave a safe position for the glory of a better job and then end up nowhere 2 years later.

The reason why these managers are being tapped up is because they were given time to develop their squad and philosophy etc then as soon as they get to the glory team they are expected to gain success immediately forgetting that a team and a philosophy still needs to be built.

I would be both amazed and hugely disappointed if Dyche leaves for Everton but not because I'm a Burnley fan but because yet again I have been let down by what I thought was a better man than most, a wiser man than most and if he goes mid-season he is no different than Coyle (in the reason why we hate him I mean).

Don't get me wrong I don't think he will go, especially if he is being honest about his principals, I mean how could anyone leave a team mid-season, how could they be allowed to and it should be against the rules, this is not a striker FFS it's the whole leadership of a team and club so why are we even having this conversation.

I think Dyche is being smart by saying nothing and I hope he is playing with the media and has told his team he is going nowhere.

Last night's performance was magnificent and screamed of togetherness, I would be amaaaaaaaaaazed if he leaves.

[Claret82]

One other thing the idiot pundits forget is the underhanded insult they are giving Dyche.

"Take the job quick before everyone sees how sh*te you really are as a manager!"

"Next season you're bound to be in the bottom three, hurry up before you're found out as a conman!"

Jobs will come and go as they always do and Dyche remember is on a fortune at Burnley, worshipped by the town and respected by all of football.

Yeah, he should throw that all away for a club that's going to be f**ked for the next tens years paying for a new stadium that the fans hate and they can't win in.

[ClaretAndJew]

He deserves to go. He never goes on about loyalty, he's said it himself that BFC isn't a "forever" story.

[Claret82]

There's a big difference between 'forever' and 'f**king off at half-time'!

[bartons baggage]

I'm glad some one started a thread about this.

[elwaclaret]

I wouldn't. Nor would I blame him. Cannot for the life of me see a scenario anywhere near approaching what Coyle did even if he is given the job.

[Claret82]

I can't imagine him leaving and taking his team not if he is being honest about his principals, what amazes me is that we are having this conversation like it is something he should do (carrager et al) or should be allowed to do.

[Claret82]

I'm glad some one started a thread about this.

"I'm glad someone took the time to post a useless comment"

[elwaclaret]

I can't imagine him leaving and taking his team not if he is being honest about his principals, what amazes me is that we are having this conversation like it is something he should do (carrager et al) or should be allowed to do.

That is the point though Claret82. SD is not a Burnley fan, yes it will always be a special place for him... but its his career. If he wants a bigger profile club then there wont be many bigger than Everton sniffing around. Yes he is building something here and so it will be the toughest choice of his career IF HE GETS OFFERED IT. He backs himself every day.... why wouldn't he that he can turn Everton around?

By standing in his way the Board make the job a hell of a lot less appealing for potential replacements,,,, and if the release clause is there that many suggest there is not a lot we can do about it anyway.

All I can say is on balance I think if I were SD I'd take it.... and I'm a Claret who would hate to see him go.

[Claret82]

Again it's not about him taking the job, it's about taking it mid-season.

Personally IMO Everton is not a great job compared to Burnley, and I don't mean as a fan, Dyche is rich beyond his dreams right now and has a guaranteed job, loved by the town and respected by all. He's building a great club infrastructure etc.

I would stay and use Burnley to improve my skills and at the same time help the club and fans and town.

What does he have to lose?

If he thinks this is the only job opportunity he will get he doesn't exactly have self-belief (i believe he does have self-belief and knows there is no rush to take this job).

[tim_noone]

He deserves to go. He never goes on about loyalty, he's said it himself that BFC isn't a "forever" story.

Why does he deserve to go???

[Quickenthetempo]

I take it you have never moved jobs for more money or career prospects.

[Imploding Turtle]

Does anyone else remember how we were complaining about our club having no ambition? Now we're begging for our manager to have no ambition by pointing out all those who've had ambition, took a shot at a bigger club, and failed.

[tim_noone]

I take it you have never moved jobs for more money or career prospects.

If you mean me...no. I'm sure sd as already said he isn't driven by money and his fortunate to earn a good living. If going to Everton improves his career that's a matter of opinion.if you think he "deserves" taking over a bottom three club in free fall so be it.

[tim_noone]

Does anyone else remember how we were complaining about our club having no ambition? Now we're begging for our manager to have no ambition by pointing out all those who've had ambition, took a shot at a bigger club, and failed.

I'm sure sd has ambition.

[Claret82]

Ambition is continuing to develop a small club and teach the youth culture what it means to have honesty and morality and to live by values rather than personal gain.

Dyche has the opportunity to change more than Burnley FC, he could change football, he could promote the British and Irish team and how British and Irish players given the chance can perform as well as any foreign player.

This is bigger than Burnley, I just happen to be a Burnley supporter with the most impressive human being in football at the helm.

In a world of diving, ridiculous wages and no path for British and Irish players in our own country, we need Dyche at a club like Burnley to show the world an alternative to 'Vegas' football.

If he goes to Everton mid season - then sorry, that dream has gone along with his integrity.

[Quickenthetempo]

If you mean me...no. I'm sure sd as already said he isn't driven by money and his fortunate to earn a good living. If going to Everton improves his career that's a matter of opinion.if you think he "deserves" taking over a bottom three club in free fall so be it.

No it was for Claret82

[dpinsussex]

Lets say SD stays and works miracles and for sake of argument gets us into europe this season.
What would be his next step ?
Would he be too good for west ham, southampton, Everton the so called 2nd tier in the prem?

[Claret82]

I take it you have never moved jobs for more money or career prospects.

This is bigger than personal gain, he has the responsibility of a leader even though it's 'just' football, the whole town emotionally, financially is affected as is football in general sending the message 'selfish greed is good'.

This is an opportunity to send a different message - 'honesty, integrity, values are good'

JEEZ when is this f**king world gonna wake up and grow the f**k up?

We look up to Mourinio and pep and they act like 10 year olds - Dyche has more to offer, Burnley has more to offer, time to step up to what's right!

[tim_noone]

Great posts by claret 82 in my humble opinion great posts!

[jurek]

Most folk say Everton are a bigger club than us and clearly in many ways they are.
More support, bigger stadium and overseas owners with money to spend.

Some say Everton are as big a club as is likely to come in for him
as none of the big six would come calling even if they had vacancies.

There's a possibility that Wenger may leave Arsenal at the end of the season.
Conte leaving Chelsea and Kloop Liverpool may well happen too.

They're all bigger clubs than Everton but couldn't see any of them turning to Dyche
albeit, I think he could be a good fit for Liverpool and have less to do there than elsewhere.
Just sort out their defence.

There's a few other clubs bigger than us that may also discard managers this season.
West Ham come to mind, possibly Palace too if Roy hadn't got them out of the bottom three
by January.

That's it really.

So Everton look the most likely if not the only one that is or would be available.

What would he be expected to achieve at Everton?
In the first instance get them out of the bottom three which shouldn't be that taxing.
Good players coming back and the acquisition of a decent centre-forward should make it
relatively comfortable.
After that I think he'd be expected to get then challenging for Europe and a top 6 place - if not higher.
If he fell much short of that then they may get rid especially if they've backed him
with a substantial amount of transfer money.

In comparison.
What would he be expected to achieve if he stayed with us?
A top ten place but ultimately another year in the Premiership would suffice.

He's a gradual builder and has been given the opportunity to do that with Burnley.
We didn't get rid of him when we were relegated last and he has helped the club
develop off the field in more ways than one.
That's a pretty good achievement.

Although, we're not playing very exciting football he's made us very difficult to beat
and not many teams look forward to playing us.
We've certainly given some of the bigger teams a run for their money especially away from home.
He will have money available and probably more than many think.
Two more quality signings might just do it and it could possibly even be this season.

Although I suspect we'd be better looking for some younger players with potential to come on
but not necessarily immediately. Maybe next season.
I'm thinking of the young guy at Leicester (Gray) who they bought from Birmingham
a couple of seasons ago for 7m or so and who is now looking like realising his potential.
Exciting to watch, pacy and can beat players and create chances.
And looks as if he's now capable of tracking back as well.

If Dyche managed to do that (get a couple of really exciting prospects in and
help develop them into top players) then he might well think he could get Burnley higher than most expect.
Possibly even top six. Possibly higher than he could get Everton.
And see that as the ultimate challenge.
Even if he'd didn't manage to achieve that then we'd still have him, wouldnt we?

If he did then his stock would be even higher than it is at present and could open it up for him
to get offers from some of the big teams or even abroad.
Possibly even the England job if Southgate/England bomb in Russia?

He's a thinking man so I'm sure he's weighed up the 'probables and possibles'
in relation to his ambitions and family which seem very important to him.

He's still relatively young for a manager so could easily think he'd be a round for another
10 years or more. Even another season or so with us.

There's no logic in football and nobody is a mind reader.
The media build up every little rumour and in most cases money talks.

But Dyche does come across as the sort of guy who believes in more than money
and ego even though he must have ambitions.
Let's hope those ambitions can be achieved with us and if so he'll go down as the
best manager we've ever had and leave a legacy and memories that will remain for a long, long time.

There's not many clubs where someone will be able to achieve that.
That's something money can't buy.

[Devils_Advocate]

Most folk say Everton are a bigger club than us and clearly in many ways they are.
More support, bigger stadium and overseas owners with money to spend.

Some say Everton are as big a club as is likely to come in for him
as none of the big six would come calling even if they had vacancies.

There's a possibility that Wenger may leave Arsenal at the end of the season.
Conte leaving Chelsea and Kloop Liverpool may well happen too.

They're all bigger clubs than Everton but couldn't see any of them turning to Dyche
albeit, I think he could be a good fit for Liverpool and have less to do there than elsewhere.
Just sort out their defence.

There's a few other clubs bigger than us that may also discard managers this season.
West Ham come to mind, possibly Palace too if Roy hadn't got them out of the bottom three
by January.

That's it really.

So Everton look the most likely if not the only one that is or would be available.

What would he be expected to achieve at Everton?
In the first instance get them out of the bottom three which shouldn't be that taxing.
Good players coming back and the acquisition of a decent centre-forward should make it
relatively comfortable.
After that I think he'd be expected to get then challenging for Europe and a top 6 place - if not higher.
If he fell much short of that then they may get rid especially if they've backed him
with a substantial amount of transfer money.

In comparison.
What would he be expected to achieve if he stayed with us?
A top ten place but ultimately another year in the Premiership would suffice.

He's a gradual builder and has been given the opportunity to do that with Burnley.
We didn't get rid of him when we were relegated last and he has helped the club
develop off the field in more ways than one.
That's a pretty good achievement.

Although, we're not playing very exciting football he's made us very difficult to beat
and not many teams look forward to playing us.
We've certainly given some of the bigger teams a run for their money especially away from home.
He will have money available and probably more than many think.
Two more quality signings might just do it and it could possibly even be this season.

Although I suspect we'd be better looking for some younger players with potential to come on
but not necessarily immediately. Maybe next season.
I'm thinking of the young guy at Leicester (Gray) who they bought from Birmingham
a couple of seasons ago for 7m or so and who is now looking like realising his potential.
Exciting to watch, pacy and can beat players and create chances.
And looks as if he's now capable of tracking back as well.

If Dyche managed to do that (get a couple of really exciting prospects in and
help develop them into top players) then he might well think he could get Burnley higher than most expect.
Possibly even top six. Possibly higher than he could get Everton.
And see that as the ultimate challenge.
Even if he'd didn't manage to achieve that then we'd still have him, wouldnt we?

If he did then his stock would be even higher than it is at present and could open it up for him
to get offers from some of the big teams or even abroad.
Possibly even the England job if Southgate/England bomb in Russia?

He's a thinking man so I'm sure he's weighed up the 'probables and possibles'
in relation to his ambitions and family which seem very important to him.

He's still relatively young for a manager so could easily think he'd be a round for another
10 years or more. Even another season or so with us.

There's no logic in football and nobody is a mind reader.
The media build up every little rumour and in most cases money talks.

But Dyche does come across as the sort of guy who believes in more than money
and ego even though he must have ambitions.
Let's hope those ambitions can be achieved with us and if so he'll go down as the
best manager we've ever had and leave a legacy and memories that will remain for a long, long time.

There's not many clubs where someone will be able to achieve that.
That's something money can't buy.

If you are going to write such a ridiculously long and boring post could you at least put in some chapter headings and maybe a forward for those who haven't got all day

[CanuckClaret]

If you are going to write such a ridiculously long and boring post could you at least put in some chapter headings and maybe a forward for those who haven't got all day

Actualy, I thought it was a good read - you speak for yourself!

[JTClaret]

If Everton want him, he will go.

I've said for a while I think he needs to prove he can handle big names to be able to go for the big jobs.
But Everton are a decent sized club playing poorly. He is a man of ambition and will believe he can do it there.
It is an obvious step to a 'big' job and seemingly a good club to be able to do that.
If he can make us what we are today in 5 years, what will he believe he can do at Everton in 5 years?

I hope he doesn't go. But I can't see him turning them down.

[KateR]

It is completely irrelevant what we or the pundits think in reality, to influence his thinking then yes fans thoughts and banners/murals around the town and at the turf just cement his own opinion. He will discuss his opinion with his family and make a decision that is best for him and his family at that moment in time, he may be vindicated or find it was a mistake in retrospect when he looks back at any given time in the future.

To compare him with OC today is a ridiculous comment in my opinion, however if he were to go and in the next couple of weeks take all the back room staff plus some players in January then I might revise that opinion.

While loyalty and integrity are important things, he has never spouted the claptrap that the town/fans took in from OC, he will I believe look at the practicalities of the move, longevity, challenge and future opportunities for trophy's that the move might bring, am sure he will believe in his abilities to change Everton's fortunes or he would never go.

These jobs come up when they do, they are not normally at convenient times for other clubs/fans so the timing is what it is, the pundits have differing opinions/suggestion but they like the fans will be irrelevant to. What is on the table as an offer will be reviewed and contemplated as will any counter offer from Burnley, wouldn't expect money to be an overriding factor here himself or family although it will carry some weight obviously. I have never met him, never spoken with him but have listened to him and think he has ambitions, wants to prove his worth and I believe that is a critical factor, however if Everton for example say, you have to come alone and work with our present backroom staff that can also be a decisive factor along so many.

I am not getting worked up about it, if he goes he would go with my blessing for providing the superb years I have enjoyed while he has been here which has been a fraction of the time I spent supporting my club. What happens after that might make me change my mind but that is crystal ball stuff, my husband has changed jobs many times with different countries and cultures being involved, he discussed pros and cons, I gave my advise but it was always his final decision as to what happened next. Many opportunities were also turned down that we will never know whether they would have been good or bad, I do not think his move would be anywhere near as disruptive to his family as ours were but if she feels he is happy then the concern of the move and the much higher potential for failure and being out of work exists than it does at Burnley.

Would IW be able to step up if he left and make that leap in to management and keep the same team/group focus? I have no idea.