Job Change

[ClaretEngineer]

Its turning out to be a good week. The job for the automotive sector role in Coventry didn't materialize, however I have an interview on Friday with a IDNO (Independent Distribution Network Operator) for a varied role encompassing electrical, mechanical and civil engineering. I've also been accepted for interview for a top class company formerly the manufacturers of undercarriage legs for Hurricanes, Spitfires and Lancaster bombers.

An update on the current job situation, the directors have finally admitted that the JV is a failure and that the mega wealthy investor (that was proposing £2-4M cash investment) has now pulled out. So all JV related projects will now shelved for the forseeable, these projects and designs have already sat on the shelf for two years. Again we were told that we're underpaid for the work we do but in 8 months the company hopes to back in the black...

[Sidney1st]

Good job you went looking then

[Paul Waine]

Its turning out to be a good week. The job for the automotive sector role in Coventry didn't materialize, however I have an interview on Friday with a IDNO (Independent Distribution Network Operator) for a varied role encompassing electrical, mechanical and civil engineering. I've also been accepted for interview for a top class company formerly the manufacturers of undercarriage legs for Hurricanes, Spitfires and Lancaster bombers.

An update on the current job situation, the directors have finally admitted that the JV is a failure and that the mega wealthy investor (that was proposing £2-4M cash investment) has now pulled out. So all JV related projects will now shelved for the forseeable, these projects and designs have already sat on the shelf for two years. Again we were told that we're underpaid for the work we do but in 8 months the company hopes to back in the black...

Good luck with everything ClaretEngineer.

I didn't know we are still building Hurricanes, Spitfires and Lancaster bombers - all awesome aircraft! Top class.

[ClaretEngineer]

Good luck with everything ClaretEngineer.

I didn't know we are still building Hurricanes, Spitfires and Lancaster bombers - all awesome aircraft! Top class.

I'm going to ask if they still provide engineering support for their equipment fitted to these historic aircraft. They design and manufacture hydraulic equipment for the rail industry amongst other applications. I need to do my homework. I'm expecting a grilling for this one.

[levraiclaret]

Time to go, time to go, time to go oh oh oh, good luck

[KateR]

have you left yet? Really don't like open ended stories so please let us know the final outcome!

[ClaretEngineer]

have you left yet? Really don't like open ended stories so please let us know the final outcome!

No I'm still here. Interviews on Friday and Monday.

I'm on two months notice, so I won't actually start any new job until the New Year.

[Midmoorclaret]

Should have gone for the McLaren job and given Sidney more stress! (hope he gets it mind)

[KateR]

No I'm still here. Interviews on Friday and Monday.

I'm on two months notice, so I won't actually start any new job until the New Year.

hope you follow all this up then and let us know

I have moved and lived in 11 different locations/countries with hubby and he has been talking of moving again for over a year now but feels the move wont happen now. I do get itchy feet when we stay in one place to long, my furniture has more airmiles than most people so don't be afraid of change and embrace it. Not everything is better but as long as it's a step in the direction you want to go then it should be worth it.

whatever happens good luck

[deanothedino]

Glad to see you're actively looking, I'd be wanting to get out if I were you. I had a similar experience of promises from my first post-uni employer that were never delivered. It was a shame as I enjoyed a lot of the products I worked on there but I moved to another large engineering company and I haven't regretted it for a moment since.

It seems far more daunting before you do it.

Good luck.

[Sutton-Claret]

Get yourself into contracting.

I'm also a Mech design Engineer - I left my full time job in 2004 designing domestic boilers and went into contracting and have never looked back. I've worked at some pretty amazing places - especially in the Nuclear and Defense sectors. I also take on freelance work (I have my own CAD license) through my website. At the moment I'm snowed under and can pick and choose my work.

I don't get involved in company politics / no company responsibilies - I just turn up, get my head down, do the work and then invoice them for the hours I've put in either weekly or monthly.

[Holtyclaret]

Good luck tomorrow

[ClaretEngineer]

I'm going all Sean Dyche today, I'm well prepared for my interview (without the PowerPoint presentation). Interestingly they did a job in Burnley not so long ago, though no details of what exactly.

Drawings, recent projects, relevant qualification documents and Passport. Blue suit and a Claret tie.

I hope its a good company on first impressions

[deanothedino]

Good luck CE.

Is it a 3D drafty type role or something wider? I'd imagine the scope is quite big at an IDNO, should make it interesting.

[ClaretEngineer]

The job spec only asks for a working knowledge of Autocad 2D. I think it’s my relevant knowledge in Switchgear that has got me the interview, as well as my exposure to DNO’s.

This is the next level in terms of engineering on a technical and project planning scale. It’s the mix of mechanical, electrical, civil and Quantity Surveying that is tickling my fancy.

The next stage from here is to work for a DNO (UKPN etc) which is where I want to end up if I stay in this industry.

[ClaretEngineer]

The interview for the IDNO went really well I thought, I was there longer than the agency expected. Nice modern offices, plenty of variety on offer, along with continuous development. Most importantly they have a Tea Urn rather than a tea round!

As part of their development scheme they actively encourage designers to participate in assimilation courses such as cable jointing, cabling up Switchgear as well as low voltage circuit diagnosis. Also plenty of opportunity to get out on site and be a face rather than a name.

I was supposed to hear back yesterday having been informed by email that they were going to offer me a job and they were just thrashing out the finances.

The hydraulic company interview didn’t go so well. Part of an exam paper was put in front of me to answer, and I’m really embarrassed that I couldn’t answer the questions at the time. It’s stuff that I did bread and butter at Uni. 5 minutes going over my old work when I got home was all it took to remember. In fact I was beyond embarrased, but it’s not something I could have prepared for having not done any real engineering calculations in my current role.

It’s quite saddening to think that I once had a rather good engineering brain. Now I’m restricted to essentially packaging components into boxes using 3D.

The search continues.

[deanothedino]

Sorry to hear the test didn't go so well, I had a similar experience about 6 years ago - though if I had my data book to hand I would have been fine. Tests like that don't really show whether you're a good engineer, good engineers use references!

It’s quite saddening to think that I once had a rather good engineering brain. Now I’m restricted to essentially packaging components into boxes using 3D.

Unfortunately this highlights the problem of the engineering industry these days. The advent of CAD meant that jobs that were previously done by a drafty are now done by a 'design' engineer, normally with the requirement being that the engineer is degree trained. Ultimately this means you get an engineer who is never being used to their full ability, never full utilising all of the theory they learnt during their degree.

I've had a pretty varied career in the aerospace industry so far, and I can maybe count on one hand the number of times I've specifically used something I learnt at university in normal day-to-day work. Makes you wonder what I spent £25k on a degree for other than access to the job market.

[Sutton-Claret]

Sorry to hear the test didn't go so well, I had a similar experience about 6 years ago - though if I had my data book to hand I would have been fine. Tests like that don't really show whether you're a good engineer, good engineers use references!

Unfortunately this highlights the problem of the engineering industry these days. The advent of CAD meant that jobs that were previously done by a drafty are now done by a 'design' engineer, normally with the requirement being that the engineer is degree trained. Ultimately this means you get an engineer who is never being used to their full ability, never full utilising all of the theory they learnt during their degree.

I've had a pretty varied career in the aerospace industry so far, and I can maybe count on one hand the number of times I've specifically used something I learnt at university in normal day-to-day work. Makes you wonder what I spent £25k on a degree for other than access to the job market.

Don't forget CAD software is just a tool - its whats in your head that counts. Also, there is a big difference between a draughtsman and Mechanical design engineer. I recently did a short contract on some specialist machine design in West Yorks - I asked a draughtsman (who'd worked there for 20 years) to come up with some basic concepts for a simple mechanism - a few days later he showed me his ideas which were bordering on the ridiculous. He could use the 3D software but didn't have the skills to think about what was achievable and what was required.

[deanothedino]

Don't forget CAD software is just a tool - its whats in your head that counts. Also, there is a big difference between a draughtsman and Mechanical design engineer. I recently did a short contract on some specialist machine design in West Yorks - I asked a draughtsman (who'd worked there for 20 years) to come up with some basic concepts for a simple mechanism - a few days later he showed me his ideas which were bordering on the ridiculous. He could use the 3D software but didn't have the skills to think about what was achievable and what was required.

Exactly. CAD software is the modern pencil and paper. It replaces the old drawing board. Your example is because that's not what a traditional drafty does. There is a big difference between the two roles and the difference is that a mechanical design engineer shouldn't be drawing the model, a drafty should. The merger of the two is normally a cost saving exercise outside of an R&D environment.

I'd recommend reading this http://www.tecnetinc.com/The%20Death%20 ... tsman.html a very interesting read on how the way Boeing works compared to how they worked previously.

[Sutton-Claret]

It’s quite saddening to think that I once had a rather good engineering brain. Now I’m restricted to essentially packaging components into boxes using 3D.

The search continues.

You still need your Engineering brain to understand what the software is telling you. I've used Finite Element Analysis (FEA) in the past to simulate whether a component will standup to certain forces. You still have to understand what the software is telling you and where the design can be improved. An Engineer never accepts the first answer his calculator gives him - he will question it.

Incidentally have you ever thought of becoming a contractor? I went into contracting in 2004 and have never looked back.

[Sutton-Claret]

Exactly. CAD software is the modern pencil and paper. It replaces the old drawing board. Your example is because that's not what a traditional drafty does. There is a big difference between the two roles and the difference is that a mechanical design engineer shouldn't be drawing the model, a drafty should. The merger of the two is normally a cost saving exercise outside of an R&D environment.

I'd recommend reading this http://www.tecnetinc.com/The%20Death%20 ... tsman.html a very interesting read on how the way Boeing works compared to how they worked previously.

Yes I agree with the article. I've worked in many companies as a contractor and very few still use Draughtsmen. Personally I prefer to do the drawings and models myself. The Engineer still has to control what goes on the drawings in terms of GD&T - the draughtsman can't possibly know this information so it saves time explaining design intent.

I'm coming across companies that don't even use drawings - all the details, dimesions / tolerances / datums / manufacturing data is held in the model. The engineer just emails the finished model in a read only format to the manufacturer.

[ClaretEngineer]

You still need your Engineering brain to understand what the software is telling you. I've used Finite Element Analysis (FEA) in the past to simulate whether a component will standup to certain forces. You still have to understand what the software is telling you and where the design can be improved. An Engineer never accepts the first answer his calculator gives him - he will question it.

Incidentally have you ever thought of becoming a contractor? I went into contracting in 2004 and have never looked back.

I was contacted by an agency on behalf of JLR about contracting for them. The money was excellent, at the expense of job security. And I don't think I have enough experience yet to go it alone. Nor the finances to start up as contractor (3D package costs £4K plus £1800 per year!). I wouldnt even know where to start!

I think I'm one of the rare cases that learned at lot more Uni that I have in industry. I enjoy a challenge, there's nothing more satisfying than solving a problem and solving it well.

[ClaretEngineer]

Yes I agree with the article. I've worked in many companies as a contractor and very few still use Draughtsmen. Personally I prefer to do the drawings and models myself. The Engineer still has to control what goes on the drawings in terms of GD&T - the draughtsman can't possibly know this information so it saves time explaining design intent.

I'm coming across companies that don't even use drawings - all the details, dimesions / tolerances / datums / manufacturing data is held in the model. The engineer just emails the finished model in a read only format to the manufacturer.

This appears to be the new way. One supplier I use for sheet metal requests the flat pattern drawing only and maybe some formed views for clarification.

One supplier in India just wanted the models. The finished item was absolutely spot on, somewhat surprisingly!

[deanothedino]

I think I'm one of the rare cases that learned at lot more Uni that I have in industry. I enjoy a challenge, there's nothing more satisfying than solving a problem and solving it well.

I learned a lot at university but I'm not an aerodynamicist and I don't design gas turbines so it's all of limited use at work. I've also learnt a lot at work but what I do is very niche.

Yes I agree with the article. I've worked in many companies as a contractor and very few still use Draughtsmen. Personally I prefer to do the drawings and models myself. The Engineer still has to control what goes on the drawings in terms of GD&T - the draughtsman can't possibly know this information so it saves time explaining design intent.

I'm coming across companies that don't even use drawings - all the details, dimesions / tolerances / datums / manufacturing data is held in the model. The engineer just emails the finished model in a read only format to the manufacturer.

Where I currently work does, but they're called designers. The place I used to work had separate engineers for GD&T, which is borderline madness.

What you do find with the current system a lot of businesses are using, and I think it's in that article from memory, is some suppliers don't have the tools to read the models and it can get very messy. Obviously, a big company like Boeing can almost force their suppliers to use whatever tools they want but for lower volume work that's not the case.

Personally I think a lot depends on what you're making as well. Some things lend themselves to drawings, some lend themselves to models but getting drawings from models is easy anyway - just depends on how flexible the company's process decides to be.

[Sutton-Claret]

I was contacted by an agency on behalf of JLR about contracting for them. The money was excellent, at the expense of job security. And I don't think I have enough experience yet to go it alone. Nor the finances to start up as contractor (3D package costs £4K plus £1800 per year!). I wouldnt even know where to start!

I think I'm one of the rare cases that learned at lot more Uni that I have in industry. I enjoy a challenge, there's nothing more satisfying than solving a problem and solving it well.

I get emails from an agency about the JLR positions - the hourly rates are actually on the low side. I don't think they have any problems getting people in because they're such a good company to work for and will always look good on your CV.

To go into contracting you don't need your own software license - if you wanted to take on some freelance work then you probably would. No harm in getting yourself registered with some decent agencies (I can give you some) - update your Linkedin profile (agencies are all over this) - register on Jobsite.co.uk as a contractor...... you're phone won't stop ringing.

Incidentally what software do you use.

[ClaretEngineer]

I get emails from an agency about the JLR positions - the hourly rates are actually on the low side. I don't think they have any problems getting people in because they're such a good company to work for and will always look good on your CV.

To go into contracting you don't need your own software license - if you wanted to take on some freelance work then you probably would. No harm in getting yourself registered with some decent agencies (I can give you some) - update your Linkedin profile (agencies are all over this) - register on Jobsite.co.uk as a contractor...... you're phone won't stop ringing.

Incidentally what software do you use.

At the moment I use Solidworks (7 years+). I have used Pro Engineer and Autodesk Inventor albeit briefly.

JLR don't seem to have any proper engineering roles, indeed any roles offered require to have a specific and often specialist background. I've always thought automotive was where I wanted to be, but the more I look the less I'm attracted to it.

I have my CV up on CV Library and Monster at present, as well has having my LinkedIn profile set to ''active job hunter'' (or whatever it is).

[ClaretEngineer]

I finally handed in my notice in today, a very daunting task. My transfer from Nottingham to Leicester is finally underway.

After much wrangling and thrashing out of details I’ve accepted the job with IDNO.

The salary is matched whilst I undergo a 6 month training programme with a review at the end of the period and then a further review at 12 months.

I feel as though a great weight has been lifted from my soldiers, though with a hint of sadness.

Thanks for your all your help and support.UTC!

CE

[Sutton-Claret]

Onwards and upwards - never look back.....