I'd Say "Stick Your curriculum Up Your A**e"

[UpTheBeehole]

Well luckily for me, you've more chance of me answering to "the man upstairs" than you... so what?

You literally just answered to me

[TheFamilyCat]

There is no issue with learning about other religions. It is a very good idea so people understand the world around them. This is very different from being asked at school to write a letter about converting.

Teaching practice and standards expected in schools now requires the teaching to be more than just telling kids about a subject.

The learning requires assessment to ensure they have absorbed, understood and can contextualise it. When many of us were at school (depending on age) "proving" we'd learnt something required nothing more than repeating it back, parrot-fashion.

So, in this situation, the pupils will have learnt about Islam and no doubt other religions and will have had to select parts of this as the reasons for converting (selecting what they believe to be the positive aspects).

As I said in an earlier post, putting this into letter informing parents that they are converting and explaining the reasons why is a strong assessment activity, it also just happens that the subject is unpalatable for some.

[UpTheBeehole]

As I said in an earlier post, putting this into letter informing parents that they are converting and explaining the reasons why is a strong assessment activity, it also just happens that the subject is unpalatable for islamophobes

Fixed that for you

[deanothedino]

Teaching practice and standards expected in schools now requires the teaching to be more than just telling kids about a subject.

The learning requires assessment to ensure they have absorbed, understood and can contextualise it. When many of us were at school (depending on age) "proving" we'd learnt something required nothing more than repeating it back, parrot-fashion.

Is it? I thought it was going more the other way with the removal of coursework, a method of assessment that mirrors working life, back to exams where you basically brain dump on a page for 2 hours.

Either way, understanding every religion is a good idea to help make the world a better place.

[UpTheBeehole]

As I said in an earlier post, putting this into letter informing parents that they are converting and explaining the reasons why is a strong assessment activity, it also just happens that the subject is unpalatable for racists

Fixed it even further

[TheFamilyCat]

Is it? I thought it was going more the other way with the removal of coursework, a method of assessment that mirrors working life, back to exams where you basically brain dump on a page for 2 hours.

Either way, understanding every religion is a good idea to help make the world a better place.

I was referring to formative assessment methods, done ongoing through a course to demonstrate learning and progress after each class. Exams and coursework make up the final assessments on which students are graded. The merit of those is a whole different can of worms!

[Quickenthetempo]

The worst thing we do as adults is lie to kids, and religious education is full of them.

Of course Jesus fed 5000 people with a loaf and two fishes and can turn water into wine, that people can walk on water. The list is endless.

[claptrappers_union]

I’d rather have my kids be Muslim than Christian

[Sidney1st]

I’d rather have my kids be Muslim than Christian

They could always choose to be Atheists instead.

[nil_desperandum]

The worst thing we do as adults is lie to kids, and religious education is full of them.

Of course Jesus fed 5000 people with a loaf and two fishes and can turn water into wine, that people can walk on water. The list is endless.

How much "RE" / SMSC have you taught or experienced in the past couple of decades? Seems as though you are completely out of touch with what an RE syllabus aims to teach, and its content.
Such topics as you mention might be on an exam syllabus, and these "events" would be investigated, but they wouldn't be taught as part of an RE / SMSC syllabus.
Topics such as the Holocaust, apartheid, Civil Rights, and the moral codes and practices of the various religions are correctly explored in compulsory RE, and what you are referring to is something totally different, that may have happened years ago, but that definitely wouldn't now.
On the specific events you refer to, in any case, it is possible to study these and explore the reasons why these stories may have found their way into the Bible, whether they have elements of truth, and what they can teach us.
As an earlier poster said: education is power.

[claptrappers_union]

They could always choose to be Atheists instead.

Hopefully they will grow up intelligent enough to come to that decision.

[Sidney1st]

Hopefully they will grow up intelligent enough to come to that decision.

Interesting comment.

My kids have never been christened and only attend churches for other peoples ceremonies.
We do talk about religion/god, because they see stuff on the news and want to talk about it.

They quickly came to the conclusion that killing someone in the name of some god is pretty stupid.

I don't think they've even read the bible, unless they've seen it at school.
They don't appear to be any worse off for it.

[claptrappers_union]

That’s my point, they can grow up to be atheists, or Christians, but even better if they decide to follow Islam, for me

[Sidney1st]

Why's that then?

[Pstotto]

Religion is a cultural thing local to each individual family and each mind.

R.E. needs to be banned and replaced with philosophy and epistemology, along the lines of:

1. There can be no Holy texts of God because of the 'sin' of imperfect sense mediation and the subjectivity of the human condition i.e. even if there were divine instruction it would be open to misinterpretation and corruption by the receiver and the conditions of life as it pans out. As such, any words can only ever be 'dirt-to-dirt-through-dirt.'

2. One could only ever have a subjective impartial concept of an immortal infinite Omnipotent being, so any actions and reactions concerning that are deluded. If one is deluded about any such concept then any actions regarding that can only ever be deluded whether it or didn't fit into a plan by any such creator.

3. Because of the two points made above there can be no possible condition for safe religious instruction in schools because there would not be the mind and the text to instruct nor the mind to receive and act out actions according to any such instruction in the world in which we find ourselves.

[martin_p]

Religion is a cultural thing local to each individual family and each mind.

R.E. needs to be banned and replaced with philosophy and epistemology, along the lines of:

1. There can be no Holy texts of God because of the 'sin' of imperfect sense mediation and the subjectivity of the human condition i.e. even if there were divine instruction it would be open to misinterpretation and corruption by the receiver and the conditions of life as it pans out. As such, any words can only ever be 'dirt-to-dirt-through-dirt.'

2. One could only ever have a subjective impartial concept of an immortal infinite Omnipotent being, so any actions and reactions concerning that are deluded. If one is deluded about any such concept then any actions regarding that can only ever be deluded whether it or didn't fit into a plan by any such creator.

3. Because of the two points made above there can be no possible condition for safe religious instruction in schools because there would not be the mind and the text to instruct nor the mind to receive and act out actions according to any such instruction in the world in which we find ourselves.

You may be over thinking this!

[RingoMcCartney]

I was listening to a national phone in on the radio. The subject was Lancashire county council's decision to stop the use of, the barbaricly sourced, non RSPCA seal of approval, halal meat in its schools.

A Muslim woman rang in and said, "if non Muslim parents don't want their children to eat halal meat. They should give them a packed lunch."

And there is the voice of a follower of the religion of peace and tolerance.......

[UpTheBeehole]

Always amazes me how concerned racists get with animal welfare when it comes to halal slaughter, but have no problem with the traditional bolt through the head murder of industrially farmed animals.

[Pstotto]

That a pain/time issue, UTB.

[Inchy]

Starting 11 were you the poster who put the picture of Dyches head on top of an everton manager?

[claptrappers_union]

Why's that then?

Because Islam is better

[UpTheBeehole]

Because Islam is better

If everyone converted to islam it would solve all kinds of aggro problems facing the white 'christian' male:

All 'Are you looking at my bird?' fights would be eradicated forever if the husband asked the wife to wear a niqab.

All pub fights would be eradicated because there wouldn't be anyone pi55ed up. The kebab would still exist however, and that's half of the fun.

There'd be no islamophobic marches attended by around 20 knucklescrapers in knockoff CP company coats.

I'm all for it.

[Pstotto]

... Also it would eradicate transubtanstiation and all folks in togas claiming to be living Gods or incarnations of Buddha, representatives of Jesus etc.. Good news. Anything that destroys Hinduism and Buddhism and their demonic beliefs and practices is OK by me.

Nuke Tibet!
Nuke the Kumbh Mela!

I'd vote for it , if I could. Come on North Korea and Trump and do us all a favour and finish Asia and its demonology off.

[RingoMcCartney]

Always amazes me how concerned racists get with animal welfare when it comes to halal slaughter, but have no problem with the traditional bolt through the head murder of industrially farmed animals.

It always amazes me that, when it comes to Islam. People are more than happy to tolerate, intolerance......

[Bacchus]

It amazes me that there is a thread containing contributions from Ringo and his aren't the most ignorant.

[RocketLawnChair]

I would say I am about as islamphobic as I am Arachnophobic, I am not scared of spiders and I am certainly not scared of Muslims, although I must admit I may let out a little scream if I get home today and find one of them in the bath..

[UpTheBeehole]

It always amazes me that, when it comes to Islam. People are more than happy to tolerate, intolerance......

I'd say that a woman in a hijab walking past a pub and getting a load of racist abuse (as happened in a TV documentary aired recently) tolerates quite a lot actually.

I'd say the imams opening up their mosque doors to find pigs heads tolerate quite a lot.

[deanothedino]

... Also it would eradicate transubtanstiation and all folks in togas claiming to be living Gods or incarnations of Buddha, representatives of Jesus etc.. Good news. Anything that destroys Hinduism and Buddhism and their demonic beliefs and practices is OK by me.

Nuke Tibet!
Nuke the Kumbh Mela!

I'd vote for it , if I could. Come on North Korea and Trump and do us all a favour and finish Asia and its demonology off.

How high are you?

[RingoMcCartney]

I'd say that a woman in a hijab walking past a pub and getting a load of racist abuse (as happened in a TV documentary aired recently) tolerates quite a lot actually.

I'd say the imams opening up their mosque doors to find pigs heads tolerate quite a lot.

So do you agree with the muslim women, when she says that, " non muslim parents should give their children packed lunches if they don't want them to eat halal meat"

Agree with her do you?

[Pstotto]

5ft 8.

[UpTheBeehole]

So do you agree with the muslim women, when she says that, " non muslim parents should give their children packed lunches if they don't want them to eat halal meat"

Agree with her do you?

I'd say that parents should give their children packed lunches if they want to impose their views on their school dinner options provided.

In the reality of a slaughterhouse, the difference between a halal slaughtered animal and a non-halal slaughtered animal is that a prayer is said as a halal animal is being killed.
That's essentially it. It's the playing of a CD.

Now if you can include 100% of the population by playing a CD, or cut out a percentage of the population for not playing a CD, then it makes sense to play the CD and have the meat sellable to 100%.

[RingoMcCartney]

I'd say that parents should give their children packed lunches if they want to impose their views on their school dinner options provided.

In the reality of a slaughterhouse, the difference between a halal slaughtered animal and a non-halal slaughtered animal is that a prayer is said as a halal animal is being killed.
That's essentially it. It's the playing of a CD.

Now if you can include 100% of the population by playing a CD, or cut out a percentage of the population for not playing a CD, then it makes sense to play the CD and have the meat sellable to 100%.

So you actually admit tolerating intolerance!

So the muslim woman saying that " parents who don't want to give their children halal meat, should give them packed lunches" isn't trying to impose HER view on non Muslims then!!!!!!!!??????

She's NOT trying to impose HER beliefs based on her religion on to non believers. She's NOT trying to suggest that Muslims ignore the decision of the democratically elected Lancashire county council is she!!!!!!!?????

As for the fundamental difference between halal and non halal meat.

The latter has the animal welfare seal of approval from the RSPCA.

Have a great weekend appeasing, ever more demanding, Islam and backing the tyranny of the minority.

[UpTheBeehole]

So you actually admit tolerating intolerance!

So the muslim woman saying that " parents who don't want to give their children halal meat, should give them packed lunches" isn't trying to impose HER view on non Muslims then!!!!!!!!??????

She's NOT trying to impose HER beliefs based on her religion on to non believers. She's NOT trying to suggest that Muslims ignore the decision of the democratically elected Lancashire county council is she!!!!!!!?????

As for the fundamental difference between halal and non halal meat.

The latter has the animal welfare seal of approval from the RSPCA.

Have a great weekend appeasing Islam and backing the tyranny of the minority.

That's her religion, not her racist opposition to anything people of another colour do

[Tall Paul]

As for the fundamental difference between halal and non halal meat.

The latter has the animal welfare seal of approval from the RSPCA.

So does the vast majority of the former.

[BleedingClaret]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ework.html

Actually I did once.

Reading that article brought back memories of the first time I picked up my lads R.E. School Book.
To say I was infuriated would be an understatement.
Out of about 12 pages or more there was just one on christianity,maybe one or two on another but the vast majority were on Islam.
My blood was still boiling when I picked up the phone...eventually i was put through to the R.E. teacher.
To cut a long story short I told her where she could stick her religious bull****...Yes..and Islam.

It didn't take it further,my lad told me he would be dropping R.E. the next term.

Totally agree

Mainly as this is not about understanding Islam but rather role playing converting.

Oh yeah I forgot to add

I'd Say "Stick Your curriculum Up Your A**e" SIDEWAYS

[TheFamilyCat]

So do you agree with the muslim women, when she says that, " non muslim parents should give their children packed lunches if they don't want them to eat halal meat"

Agree with her do you?

You've "quoted" the women twice now but written two different things - leads me to suspect that maybe you are misquoting her. maybe she said If parents don't agree with the food served for school dinners, they should give their children packed lunches.

Now that applies to every parent in the country of any race, religion, lifestyle, health choice or any thing else you could care to mention.

[RingoMcCartney]

You've "quoted" the women twice now but written two different things - leads me to suspect that maybe you are misquoting her. maybe she said If parents don't agree with the food served for school dinners, they should give their children packed lunches.

Now that applies to every parent in the country of any race, religion, lifestyle, health choice or any thing else you could care to mention.

Oh dear dear dear.

Here come the pedants!!

Sorry I didn't have a pen n pad at the side of the radio as a worked! It was a couple of weeks ago. You can suspect what you want mate. What ever you want. Now if you want to crawl ant-like over my every word in a desparate attempt to deflect from the intolerance shown by the islamic woman. Go ahead. Fill your boots.

IT WAS 3 TIMES ACTUALLY! MR PEDANT!

"Parents who don't want to give their children halal meat, should give them packed lunches" post 32

"Non muslim parents should give their children packed lunches if they don't want them to eat halal meat" post 29

"if non Muslim parents don't want their children to eat halal meat. They should give them a packed lunch." Post 17

If your gonna go all forensic, and spelling n grammar police on me. At least make sure you can f***** count first!!

[nil_desperandum]

Totally agree

Mainly as this is not about understanding Islam but rather role playing converting.

No it isn't. There's nothing in this that suggests radicalisation. You're seeing something that isn't there.
However, if you've read 3 pages of posts on this topic and still hold that view, then I guess there's no point trying to convince you otherwise.

[Walton]

BleedingClaret is the poster I had to report in the summer for calling them 'pakis', so I'm not surprised.

[Erasmus]

I have to admit a vested interest in this subject as, although I am not and never have been a Christian, my first degree was in Theology and I lectured in Religious Studies at a number of universities. Never taught in a school though.

It seems a lot of the difficulty and misunderstanding arises because the distinction between RI and RE is not sufficiently clear. RI is religious instruction such as one receives at Sunday school or a madrasa. Or in my day, classes on the Bible taught at the church school I attended. RE is learning about religion. We used to have to make it clear from the very beginning of courses that all study should be conducted objectively from a position of empathetic neutrality, although there were constant debates over whether that was possible or desirable.

Then the question approached would be to consider why the study of religion was of any value. The answer to that could be defined as: 1. vocational, if your work entails interaction with the public, particularly in the public services, it is very useful to understand belief and practice. 2. Cultural, at personal level living in a multi-religious society, the study of religion helps us to understand other people and the ideas and even the prejudices they hold, in other words why they do what they do. It makes society more cohesive. 3. Simply to better understand the world past and present. In many fields, such as history or human geography, an understanding of religion enhances the level of insight one can achieve. And 4. General interest. A lot of people are interested in ideas and values, and looking at challenges to their own preconceptions. They study religion to learn about how other cultures have approached the problems and issues all of us face in the human condition.

As for whether any of it is true or not or whether religion is beneficial or harmful, that is another area to study, again to challenge personal preconceptions. As a complete agnostic myself (not even believing in the non-existence of God), I think religion simply reflects humanity, sometimes profound, wonderful and enlightening and sometimes completely vile and atrocious. And of course places in between.

[UpTheBeehole]

Then the question approached would be to consider why the study of religion was of any value. The answer to that could be defined as: 1. vocational, if your work entails interaction with the public, particularly in the public services, it is very useful to understand belief and practice. 2. Cultural, at personal level living in a multi-religious society, the study of religion helps us to understand other people and the ideas and even the prejudices they hold, in other words why they do what they do. It makes society more cohesive. 3. Simply to better understand the world past and present. In many fields, such as history or human geography, an understanding of religion enhances the level of insight one can achieve. And 4. General interest. A lot of people are interested in ideas and values, and looking at challenges to their own preconceptions. They study religion to learn about how other cultures have approached the problems and issues all of us face in the human condition.

And it is this which Dazzler and his ilk deprive their child of.

They deprive their children of education on how to live better in the world, by not just flatly rejecting but by learning about other people.

No wonder the uneducated fester in their white-only enclaves

[BleedingClaret]

No it isn't. There's nothing in this that suggests radicalisation. You're seeing something that isn't there.
However, if you've read 3 pages of posts on this topic and still hold that view, then I guess there's no point trying to convince you otherwise.

what's radicalisation got to do with conversion.
Yes I am suggesting by far the majority of Muslim want everybody to convert to Islam
No I am not suggesting that the majority of Muslims want to Radicalise other Muslims or other people.
Think your reading something into my post

Although if the Muslim children had been asked to hypothetically denounce Islam and convert to Christianity, you'd likely be faux outraged.

it's like everything these days
Sexual equality is for Women only

Racial equality is for the coloured only
Asian groomers were misunderstood, not pedophiles at all.
Apparently over 12've is fine
Female genital mutilation is Ok if they go back home to do it... it seems
Asian women have a right to the hijab but not to not wearing it
Asian men have a right to beat the **** out of their women if they don't behave not to law but to Sharia
Asian men have an honourable right to kill their women
Racial equality trumps Sexual equality as the above 6 lines prove

Gender neutrality is nuts (or not)

White males are all evil doers

Hey but don't be a marred arse, let your daughters homework be an exercise in joining a Religion that will cover their faces, abuse them, batter them and kill them if they don't conform.

Happy days.

[TheFamilyCat]

Oh dear dear dear.

Here come the pedants!!

Sorry I didn't have a pen n pad at the side of the radio as a worked! It was a couple of weeks ago. You can suspect what you want mate. What ever you want. Now if you want to crawl ant-like over my every word in a desparate attempt to deflect from the intolerance shown by the islamic woman. Go ahead. Fill your boots.

IT WAS 3 TIMES ACTUALLY! MR PEDANT!

"Parents who don't want to give their children halal meat, should give them packed lunches" post 32

"Non muslim parents should give their children packed lunches if they don't want them to eat halal meat" post 29

"if non Muslim parents don't want their children to eat halal meat. They should give them a packed lunch." Post 17

If your gonna go all forensic, and spelling n grammar police on me. At least make sure you can f***** count first!!

Missed one, oops. Still, thanks for pointing it out, a third variant on the quote makes it even more likely that you may have made a mistake.

[RingoMcCartney]

Missed one, oops. Still, thanks for pointing it out, a third variant on the quote makes it even more likely that you may have made a mistake.

Does it, does it really!?

Is your user name cockney rhyming slang?

Cos you're making a right " Family Cat" of yourself aren't you!

[UpTheBeehole]

At least racists don't even pretend they're not racist these days

[nil_desperandum]

what's radicalisation got to do with conversion.
Yes I am suggesting by far the majority of Muslim want everybody to convert to Islam
No I am not suggesting that the majority of Muslims want to Radicalise other Muslims or other people.
Think your reading something into my post

Although if the Muslim children had been asked to hypothetically denounce Islam and convert to Christianity, you'd likely be faux outraged.

it's like everything these days
Sexual equality is for Women only

Racial equality is for the coloured only
Asian groomers were misunderstood, not pedophiles at all.
Apparently over 12've is fine
Female genital mutilation is Ok if they go back home to do it... it seems
Asian women have a right to the hijab but not to not wearing it
Asian men have a right to beat the **** out of their women if they don't behave not to law but to Sharia
Asian men have an honourable right to kill their women
Racial equality trumps Sexual equality as the above 6 lines prove

Gender neutrality is nuts (or not)

White males are all evil doers

Hey but don't be a marred arse, let your daughters homework be an exercise in joining a Religion that will cover their faces, abuse them, batter them and kill them if they don't conform.

Happy days.

A very long post based on my use of the word radicalisation rather than conversion.
So just to be clear. RE teaching does not preach conversion to Islam, it merely puts the various religions into context, and there's nothing in the article linked by the OP that suggests that a school is trying to convert students to Islam.
If you have any understanding / knowledge whatsoever of modern education you would realise just how rigorously this sort of thing is monitored. Even the slightest suggestion / accusation that you were trying to convert students to a particular religion would be investigated thoroughly, and if found to be the case, it would be grounds for immediate dismissal.

[TheFamilyCat]

Does it, does it really!?

Is your user name cockney rhyming slang?

Cos you're making a right " Family Cat" of yourself aren't you!

I'm glad you put the smileys there - otherwise I don't think I'd have realised it was meant to be funny. Feel free to try another one though.

[Jimmymaccer]

They should teach Burnley FCis my religion, Turf Moor is my church, mosque, synagogue all rolled into one!

Ps Barstewards not welcome as we’re an intolerant bunch!

[Dazzler]

I think most of you are conveniently overlooking the maint point of my OP.
It was on the actual quantity that I was unhappy with.

Out of about 12 pages or more there was just one on christianity,maybe one or two on another but the vast majority were on Islam.

As for me 'verbally abusing' the teacher..
I began the conversation questioning her on the lack of christianity matter and the quantity on Islam.It was all going very cordially until she went into typical condescending teacher mode....I recall "Like it or lump it"..That's when I couldn't help myself..

[quoonbeatz]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ework.html

Actually I did once.

Reading that article brought back memories of the first time I picked up my lads R.E. School Book.
To say I was infuriated would be an understatement.
Out of about 12 pages or more there was just one on christianity,maybe one or two on another but the vast majority were on Islam.
My blood was still boiling when I picked up the phone...eventually i was put through to the R.E. teacher.
To cut a long story short I told her where she could stick her religious bull****...Yes..and Islam.

It didn't take it further,my lad told me he would be dropping R.E. the next term.

DHOTYA 2017