Bitcoin

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:39 am

Don't think that's owt to worry about.(unless, of course, it keeps on dropping.)

The other week it dropped from a high of just over $19,000 to $14,000 overnight (approx figures).

However, it's not for faint hearts, that's for sure.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:57 am

IanMcL wrote:All my brother in law wants to do is pay his subs to sportsmania! Lost in space!

Join the bloody clan - mine expires today and I can't do anything about it.

Well, they can get stuffed - if my GBP is not good enough for them, they can sod off.

A ridiculous way of conducting business IMO.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:38 am

IAmAClaret wrote:Has the Bitcoin bubble burst?

1 Bitcoin has lost £2,000 in 12 hours.

Nope, it's the 5th 30%+ correction this year.
Still up 65% for the month and Goldman Sachs is looking to start a trading desk.

: DRnv.jpeg (146.92 KiB) Viewed 2907 times

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:34 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:Don't think that's owt to worry about.(unless, of course, it keeps on dropping.)

The other week it dropped from a high of just over $19,000 to $14,000 overnight (approx figures).

However, it's not for faint hearts, that's for sure.

It most certainly is. As I keep saying. The bubble is about to burst.

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:22 pm

Since 2012 people have been saying "the bubble's about to burst." Yet it's now about to be welcomed on major trading platforms.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:29 pm

I appreciate that. I'm just warning you all.

brigante · Post by **brigante** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:55 pm

-25% so far today.

Woonderbah · Post by **Woonderbah** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:22 pm

And I'm still scratching my head trying to renew Sports bleedin Mania with 0.0026 of the soddin things !

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:23 pm

A price correction has been predicted for a few weeks.
I know someone who is involved with a serious group of bitcoin owners (well over a billion dollars in value) and there were rumours they were going to dump their coins and buy back in cheaper.

Illegal in most markets but fine for bitcoin. I still reckon it will hit $25k this year. I'd be tempted to buy now if you're interested.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:21 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Nope, it's the 5th 30%+ correction this year.
Still up 65% for the month and Goldman Sachs is looking to start a trading desk.

From CNBC: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/21/goldman- ... -says.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[b]Goldman Sachs launching trading desk for bitcoin, report says[/b]

Goldman Sachs is planning to get into the business of trading digital currencies such as bitcoin, Bloomberg News reported Thursday, citing sources familiar with the matter.

"In response to client interest in digital currencies, we are exploring how best to serve them," a Goldman spokesperson said in a statement to CNBC about the report.

The new trading desk would "make markets" in the cryptocurrencies and is set to get up and running by the end of June, if not earlier, two of the sources said in the report.

The bank is still trying to work out security issues on how it would hold the assets, which are notoriously volatile and prone to hacks, another source told Bloomberg.

In early October, news broke that Goldman Sachs was considering the launch of a new trading operation for bitcoin and other digital currencies.
The investment bank is also one of the few major financial institutions offering some clients access to the new bitcoin futures that launched on the Cboe Futures Exchange and the CME this month.

So, imagine you are a partner at Goldman and you've got some wealthy clients who want to spec bitcoin/cryptocurrencies, do you tell them "Beware, you could lose all your money" Or, "Yes, I can make a market in bitcoin for you" - meanwhile the internal Goldman appetite to put their own money at risk can remain at $zero. If there's money to be made on the spread, why wouldn't Goldman want to facilitate the trade? But, it doesn't change the fundamentals, bitcoin and all crypto is a big spec bubble.

I'm still with Jamie Dimon, JP Morgan: "bitcoin won't end well for investors." (Not seen anything new from JD on crypto since Sept-17).

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:03 pm

Paul Waine wrote:I'm still with Jamie Dimon, JP Morgan: "bitcoin won't end well for investors." (Not seen anything new from JD on crypto since Sept-17).

What Dimon says and what JP does are two completely unrelated things. Not surprising though as he does have a big horse in the race which is to keep centralized banking as the status quo. I agree though he will do anything to make his company a buck so If clients want it they will trade it and skim off a fee.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:12 pm

aggi wrote:A price correction has been predicted for a few weeks.
I know someone who is involved with a serious group of bitcoin owners (well over a billion dollars in value) and there were rumours they were going to dump their coins and buy back in cheaper.

Illegal in most markets but fine for bitcoin. I still reckon it will hit $25k this year. I'd be tempted to buy now if you're interested.

They will sell their coins and short the market.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:10 pm

dushanbe wrote:The value of 1 bitcoin has this morning passed $10,000 and is currently around $10,800. A work colleague is sat on 6.8 of these and is frantically trying to get shut.

Apologies if this has been answered already, but did your mate ever get shut?

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:58 pm

Happy with my XRP I bought at 20 cents. Hope you guys listened

AngleseyClaret · Post by **AngleseyClaret** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:10 pm

Why are you all panicking, it dropped because of the Xmas period, it is now going up again and I expect it to climb even more

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:19 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Happy with my XRP I bought at 20 cents. Hope you guys listened

I got £100 worth at $2.20 a coin the other day, gutted wasn't quite on the ball to get in at the start of December when it was really cheap. Where do you reckon Ripple could get to price wise over the coming weeks/months? I'm hoping Coinbase add it to their crypto offering, that should see the price spike a bit.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:22 pm

AngleseyClaret wrote:Why are you all panicking, it dropped because of the Xmas period, it is now going up again and I expect it to climb even more

No one suggesting any panic here. Xmas slump indeed, investor take some profits, period of consolidation and support etc.

Fist in for 2018 is Facebook investor Peter Thiel with £15-20m

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:32 pm

SammyBoy wrote:I got £100 worth at $2.20 a coin the other day, gutted wasn't quite on the ball to get in at the start of December when it was really cheap. Where do you reckon Ripple could get to price wise over the coming weeks/months? I'm hoping Coinbase add it to their crypto offering, that should see the price spike a bit.

Ripple at $3.10 now, so your doing good.
I'm not overly convinced on Ripple long term, I'm not sure the price can sustain with such huge eventual future supply. Also while there is talk of many partners and companies looking at Ripple as far as I understand they can set up a blockchain for any currency, so there's no need for Visa for example to buy the Ripple coin to use their infrastructure and tech. For that reason I've seen some people say Ripple as a company is very attractive however their token is not quite as such.

That's not to say with all the current hype, pumps and the utter craziness Ripple probably will go higher.

One of my favorite and pragmatic commentators on Ripple If you have 12mins.
https://youtu.be/qww1xANMyM4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Not financial advise, just an armchair crypto enthusiast so in reality I've no more clue than anyone

)

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:18 am

SammyBoy wrote:I got £100 worth at $2.20 a coin the other day, gutted wasn't quite on the ball to get in at the start of December when it was really cheap. Where do you reckon Ripple could get to price wise over the coming weeks/months? I'm hoping Coinbase add it to their crypto offering, that should see the price spike a bit.

The word is that it will be on coinbase within 1 week. I think $ 10 this year will happen. My adviser ( who got me in at 20 cents) says $25=$100 long term. My advise is stick with it. I am in for long term. Good luck

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:20 am

I don't really know much about Crypto, I was just given a tip off that Ripple was projected to increase in value so I decided to lump £100 on it. From a layman perspective I think it'll struggle to hit the crazy numbers per coin that other cryptos have because there's so many more ripple coins out there, so demand won't ever be great enough to trigger a huge price rise. Who knows though, I hope to make at least a few hundred quid

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:43 am

dsrcoins are on sale for £1 apiece. I have just created a million of them and there won't be any more. The shareholders will be listed on paper in both my safes so it's absolutely secure, and if anyone wants to check the validity of a share they can send me an email.

Who's buying?

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:59 am

dsr wrote:dsrcoins are on sale for £1 apiece. I have just created a million of them and there won't be any more. The shareholders will be listed on paper in both my safes so it's absolutely secure, and if anyone wants to check the validity of a share they can send me an email.

Who's buying?

I'll have 0.02 - thanks.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:11 am

What $1k in each of the top 10 coins on Jan 1st 2017 would have done by Jan 1st 2018.

I can't see the same happening this year but some coins will continue to increase as others fall by the wayside.

People keep referencing the dotcom bubble suggesting that cryptocurrency will go the same way. The likelihood is that it will, a large number of the coins that don't have a good plan will fail. Those that are successful though will likely be very successful.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:19 am

bfccrazy wrote:I'll have 0.02 - thanks.

They're unsplittable. That's part of the security system. £1 each, no fractions, cash only. I expect them to reach £100 by the end of the month and £1200-£1500 by Christmas. It's money for nothing.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:54 am

SammyBoy wrote:I got £100 worth at $2.20 a coin the other day, gutted wasn't quite on the ball to get in at the start of December when it was really cheap. Where do you reckon Ripple could get to price wise over the coming weeks/months? I'm hoping Coinbase add it to their crypto offering, that should see the price spike a bit.

FCBurnley wrote:The word is that it will be on coinbase within 1 week. I think $ 10 this year will happen. My adviser ( who got me in at 20 cents) says $25=$100 long term. My advise is stick with it. I am in for long term. Good luck

A coins value is a simple sum of it's market capitalisation divided by the current number of coins.

So right now there's $140billion invested in Ripple divided by the 38 billion coins = $3.61 the current price

So to reach $100 per coin Ripple would need a market cap of around $4 Trillion Dollars. And that's with the current supply of 38 Billion coins, up to Billion tokens will be released every month into supply until full demand is met.

I just can't see where the money is going to come from to reach those kinds of numbers. You'd have to sell Apple 5 times over or dedicate nearly two years of the the entire UK GBP and pump it all into Ripple to reach a Market Cap of $4 Trillion and $100 per coin.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:00 pm

There are plenty of reasons why Bitcoin is a bubble that, sooner or later, will burst, many of which have no doubt been aired already.

All I would add is that when there is a 4 page thread on a football message board devoted to the subject, we’re probably getting close to the end.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:06 pm

scouseclaret wrote:All I would add is that when there is a 4 page thread on a football message board devoted to the subject, we’re probably getting close to the end.

“So, That’s the End of Bitcoin Then” – Forbes Article, June 20th 2011

When I heard some folk down the pub talking about this internet thing, I knew we're probably getting close to the end.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:17 pm

dsr wrote:They're unsplittable. That's part of the security system. £1 each, no fractions, cash only. I expect them to reach £100 by the end of the month and £1200-£1500 by Christmas. It's money for nothing.

So where is the money coming from to generate all the profit for everyone?

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:23 pm

I think there is merit and value to the underlying technology of cryptocurrency, i.e. blockchain, faster payments, increased security, decentralisation etc and that it'd be foolish to write it off as worthless, given reputable organizations such as Santander, VISA and AmEx have backed Ripple (a different cryptocurrency). However, the current cryptomania fad where everybody any their dog is buying into it suggests to me that the current bubble in pricing probably won't last. I think there's short term money to be made if you get in and out at the right time, but equally I think block chain technology is here to stay.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:34 pm

Leisure wrote:So where is the money coming from to generate all the profit for everyone?

Same as all the other cryptocurrencies. I get the money from selling the original million, and the investors get the money for selling them on to other investors. They don't have any actual value. Like I said, it's money for nothing.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:17 pm

It's a good point that CombatClaret makes re: market capitalisation of various coins. You can see the various coins here https://www.coingecko.com/en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ripple does appear to have a disproportionately high market cap for a relatively new coin that lacks a lot of the benefits of others (in particular a lack of decentralised administration). It's hyped up and has some big companies expressing interest but I suspect they will eventually find their own solutions and ripple will topple.

My gut feeling is that it won't get over $5 before a better coin takes over from it (Stellar maybe) but who knows.

On the market cap argument, it was being used a few months ago as to why Ripple wouldn't go above $1 so that reasoning may not be correct either.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:02 pm

[quote="dsr"]Same as all the other cryptocurrencies. I get the money from selling the original million, and the investors get the money for selling them on to other investors. They don't have any actual value. Like I said, it's money for nothing.[

So where do the last investors get their money back from?

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:06 pm

Leisure wrote:

They don't - they go down the pub to tell their mates how their 500k of butcoins are having a minor blip and will be back up to 600k soon enough.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:17 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Happy with my XRP I bought at 20 cents. Hope you guys listened

I didn't! I invest in cryptocurrency because I believe in decentralisation. I'm sick of the rich getting richer and having all the power. Ripple is not a decentralised cryptocurrency and is a puppet of the very thing that cryptocurrency tries to avoid - financial institutions. There are plenty of cryptocurrencies to make good profit from - most decentralised. I'll stick with those

Regardless, good for you if you made money from your investment.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:21 pm

SammyBoy wrote:I don't really know much about Crypto, I was just given a tip off that Ripple was projected to increase in value so I decided to lump £100 on it. From a layman perspective I think it'll struggle to hit the crazy numbers per coin that other cryptos have because there's so many more ripple coins out there, so demand won't ever be great enough to trigger a huge price rise. Who knows though, I hope to make at least a few hundred quid

I'm glad you understand market cap and circulating supply. There are a lot of people investing in the likes of Ripple, Cardano, Tron etc because they see that the price per coin is low and hope to get rich if it hits Bitcoin level of price. They don't understand this in relation to circulating supply. Bitcoin is valuable because it's rare (many Bitcoins have been burned and lost etc). I'm not even joking - I've spoken to people who actually thought this. It's frightening and probably what will make things pop sooner or later. It's why I'm glad I've invested in projects that I've thoroughly researched (read white papers, researched team members etc).

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:23 pm

dsr wrote:dsrcoins are on sale for £1 apiece. I have just created a million of them and there won't be any more. The shareholders will be listed on paper in both my safes so it's absolutely secure, and if anyone wants to check the validity of a share they can send me an email.

Who's buying?

Is there actually any technology or physical product behind it? If not, you sound very much like Cardano. I'll stick with those that have proven products!

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:25 pm

aggi wrote:What $1k in each of the top 10 coins on Jan 1st 2017 would have done by Jan 1st 2018.

I can't see the same happening this year but some coins will continue to increase as others fall by the wayside.

People keep referencing the dotcom bubble suggesting that cryptocurrency will go the same way. The likelihood is that it will, a large number of the coins that don't have a good plan will fail. Those that are successful though will likely be very successful.

It's why I keep telling people to research projects and don't invest in vapourware. The likes of NEO, WABI, REQ, XRB, ARK, OMG and NAV all have bright futures and plenty of room to grow, in my opinion.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:27 pm

scouseclaret wrote:There are plenty of reasons why Bitcoin is a bubble that, sooner or later, will burst, many of which have no doubt been aired already.

All I would add is that when there is a 4 page thread on a football message board devoted to the subject, we’re probably getting close to the end.

Debatable though. There may be a 4-page thread but ask anyone to explain the blockchain, Ethereum or an ICO and most won't know where to start. However, we will see Bitcoin die a slow death in the coming year or two.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:39 pm

dsr wrote:Same as all the other cryptocurrencies. I get the money from selling the original million, and the investors get the money for selling them on to other investors. They don't have any actual value. Like I said, it's money for nothing.

What you're saying shows a clear lack of understanding regarding cryptocurrency. Saying that no cryptocurrency has any value is factually incorrect and just plain lazy. There are physical products behind some cryptocurrencies. One example is WABI. They make anti-counterfeit labels based on RFID technology. Their tokens can be used to purchase products in physical stores across China. There are many more examples of cryptocurrencies that have actual value and product behind them. I'm the first to admit that there are many poor coins with little substance to them. However, I encourage you to explore a little and find the gems rather than spreading false information.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:57 pm

Taking it away from Crypto and into physical stock for a moment - I bought into HMNY in December - they own the movie pass concept, which is a data-mining-based reason to get folks to the movies as many times as possible via a monthly subscription service. It’s an interesting ride as it looks like some are controlling when it breaks through - but it does seem when rather than if

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:30 pm

[quote="Leisure"][/quote],

Hi Leisure, I'm planning on stepping in to "buy out" all the last investors. I will issue them all a new "coin." I'm going to base it on dsr's "dsr" - but I'll have solved the decimal fractions issue. And, I'll issue everyone with some real paper to "mark" the exchange. I've already started negotiations with a well known paper supplier for this purpose. (I can't say any more at this stage).

Happy investing, everyone.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:04 pm

Paul Waine wrote:,

Hi Leisure, I'm planning on stepping in to "buy out" all the last investors. I will issue them all a new "coin." I'm going to base it on dsr's "dsr" - but I'll have solved the decimal fractions issue. And, I'll issue everyone with some real paper to "mark" the exchange. I've already started negotiations with a well known paper supplier for this purpose. (I can't say any more at this stage).

Happy investing, everyone.

I'm sure there's some sort of patent or trademark issue here. I was the first to steal the idea of cryptocoins and issue them on paper - stealing my stolen idea is a shabby way of doing business!

(You'll be telling me next you've got the Bank of England involved

)

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:05 pm

IndigoLake wrote:Is there actually any technology or physical product behind it? If not, you sound very much like Cardano. I'll stick with those that have proven products!

Nothing at all. Well, I might print the list of owners on computer paper if that helps. But like I've already said twice, it's money for nothing!

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:39 pm

dsr wrote:I'm sure there's some sort of patent or trademark issue here. I was the first to steal the idea of cryptocoins and issue them on paper - stealing my stolen idea is a shabby way of doing business!

(You'll be telling me next you've got the Bank of England involved )

Hi dsr, I'd be very happy to share everything we make with you - if we can create "paper scrap" coins.

In fact, if we make enough, I'll be asking if I can become a Clarets shareholder and put in a bid for Messi and Ronaldo.

ebby · Post by **ebby** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:45 am

My son has been buying Ripple, got in when they were $0.31 & just bought $3K worth of Tron yesterday- profits from selling Bitcoin.

cockneyclaret · Post by **cockneyclaret** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:48 am

3k of TRX.. that's your year paid off by February lol good going.
I just got on xrb, now that'll pay for Xmas

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:43 am

Whatever the benefits of blockchain technology, it doesn’t in itself grant any intrinsic value to a cryptocurrency when anyone can - and is - creating one.

Bitcoin is like gold only in as much as it relies on the “greater fool” assumption to make it an investment. Unlike gold, it isn’t tangible and shiny and you can’t make jewellery out of it and, most importantly, it doesn’t have a long history of being an accepted store of value. Nor is bitcoin an effective medium of exchange as its volatility makes it impossible to price anything in it without reference to a fiat currency.

There is therefore no way of ascribing any intrinsic value to bitcoin and anyone who buys it is doing so on a wing and a prayer.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:34 pm

IndigoLake wrote:It's why I keep telling people to research projects and don't invest in vapourware. The likes of NEO, WABI, REQ, XRB, ARK, OMG and NAV all have bright futures and plenty of room to grow, in my opinion.

Crwon, CRW, is another interesting one. Decent growth and quite an involved community.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:42 pm

ebby wrote:My son has been buying Ripple, got in when they were $0.31 & just bought $3K worth of Tron yesterday- profits from selling Bitcoin.

Advise him to stay with his Ripple. They have a fair way to climb yet. I will take a look at Tron.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:49 pm

aggi wrote:Crwon, CRW, is another interesting one. Decent growth and quite an involved community.

I don't know anything about Crown. I'll take a look.