Bitcoin

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:10 pm

Are these all very simple and straightforward to buy?

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:12 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Are these all very simple and straightforward to buy?

All the ones listed on Coinbase are (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash and Litecoin), the smaller coins somebody non-tech savvy would probably struggle a bit.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:23 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Are these all very simple and straightforward to buy?

Bitcoin is obviously the easiest to buy and the likes of Ethereum, Litecoin, Ripple etc are also easy enough to buy from cryptocurrency exchanges. Many of the smaller cap coins are only listed on a few exchanges, some of which are small and not as convenient. If you're interested in altcoins, one of the best things to do is simply buy some Ethereum or Bitcoin on Coinbase and send it to Binance where you can trade it for all sorts of cryptocurrencies.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:35 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Are these all very simple and straightforward to buy?

Bitcoin is reasonably straightforward although there can be a fair few hoops to go through in terms of verifying your identity (uploading pictures of passport, utility bill, etc) with some of the popular companies struggling with the demand.

On top of that there's working out what's better in terms of fees (some require international bank transfers which are generally a tenner and maybe an FX charge, others have high card fees).

It isn't too difficult but for the first time I'd set aside a few hours.

Once you've bought Bitcoin then you can use something like Bittrex to use that to buy other coins.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:30 am

ebby wrote:My son has been buying Ripple, got in when they were $0.31 & just bought $3K worth of Tron yesterday- profits from selling Bitcoin.

I hope your son got rid of that Tron very quickly. It has lost half of its value in less than a week. It's why I advise people to read up on cryptocurrencies before investing (that's not aimed at your son by the way - just general advice I give to people). Tron is a scam coin and has simply been used for a huge pump and dump.

cockneyclaret · Post by **cockneyclaret** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:08 am

Exactly, seems to be alot of 'hype' coins atm.. sadly they have such a cult following there minions can't see there getting fleeced.
But with all the sh@tcoins out there, you can find some great little gems (if you dyor and find them)

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:49 am

I suspect Bitcoin might slowly pick up again as a lot of the hyped alt-coins die off. Looks like Ripple could be going the way a lot of people expected, I don't think it will have a second surge.

ebby · Post by **ebby** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:39 pm

Hi IndegoLake
Re my son & Tron, just spoke to him in Whistler, he is now buying VeChain (VEN).
Got out of Tron ok
Bit of a minefield if you ask me, but i am old & thus conservative as opposed to someone is 22, single, just got a BSc & is having fun on a working holiday in the snow.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:50 pm

ebby wrote:Hi IndegoLake
Re my son & Tron, just spoke to him in Whistler, he is now buying VeChain (VEN).
Got out of Tron ok
Bit of a minefield if you ask me, but i am old & thus conservative as opposed to someone is 22, single, just got a BSc & is having fun on a working holiday in the snow.

No worries Ebby. Well, good for him anyway! VeChain is a sensible one - a good long-term hold if he's willing to stick with it (it's being pumped a fair bit lately so may consolidate at some point but it has a bright future). He may also want to look into Waltonchain and Wabi which are both similar projects (in the sense that they're working with RFID technology) and both vastly underrated at present. Can't guarantee anything of course - cryptocurrency is a tricky market.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:06 pm

Big difference between investing and trading.

A lot of people attempting to essentially day trade on sh@tcoins based on nothing but rumours and guessing.

Personally I'm investing in Bitcoin, Ether and a couple alt coins I've researched and like as a product then just holding.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:23 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Big difference between investing and trading.

A lot of people attempting to essentially day trade on sh@tcoins based on nothing but rumours and guessing.

Personally I'm investing in Bitcoin, Ether and a couple alt coins I've researched and like as a product then just holding.

This is true! And the reality is that most people who attempt to day trade cryptocurrencies end up losing. It's usually much more profitable to find a project that you believe in and hold as you're doing. Ethereum is as solid a hold as anything else out there.

cockneyclaret · Post by **cockneyclaret** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:02 pm

Also worth looking at chainlink for a long term hold.
And if you can get on it (due end Jan) WAN wanchain is very much one for the future

Sutton-Claret · Post by **Sutton-Claret** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:06 pm

I'm beginning to get my head around this whole cryptocurrency malarky. I've been researching Ripple and reached the point I'm tempted to get in - befor I do does anybody experienced Ripple?

Barry_Chuckle · Post by **Barry_Chuckle** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:11 pm

Sutton-Claret wrote:I'm beginning to get my head around this whole cryptocurrency malarky. I've been researching Ripple and reached the point I'm tempted to get in - befor I do does anybody experienced Ripple?

Yep, they're a bit like Flake inside but a chocolate coating on the outside, they are slightly smaller too.

Hope this helps!

Sutton-Claret · Post by **Sutton-Claret** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:15 pm

Barry_Chuckle wrote:Yep, they're a bit like Flake inside but a chocolate coating on the outside, they are slightly smaller too.

Hope this helps!

Thanks....

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:36 pm

The market struggles to be liquid. I link my bank account to Coinbase and authorized another $1,000 to be transferred there two days ago (into Litecoin). The bad news is it is not confirmed for a week! The good news is that I thought I was buying in at the bottom of a dip - I'm hoping the mechanics are it buys Litecoin at its spot price rather than the price I signalled

It's extremely difficult to day trade crypto - I've had a couple of goes switching currency in between the three I hold on Coinbase (BTC, ETH, LTC) to arbitrage on their relative movement to each other, and failed.....

I've concluded to stay long based on the notion of long term adoption. I hold 2,000 TRON and am the same on that - I'm hoping it comes back on a pump action that I can catch before another dump

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:53 pm

Has anybody invested in Air Token? If so I'd like to know your thoughts, I've had it recommended to me and I'm wondering whether it's a decent proposition.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:59 pm

Sutton-Claret wrote:I'm beginning to get my head around this whole cryptocurrency malarky. I've been researching Ripple and reached the point I'm tempted to get in - befor I do does anybody experienced Ripple?

People have brought Ripple but no one is actually experienced in it because no one is using it yet.

Some companies are interested in the Ripple companies protocol but to use the protocol doesn't require buying the Ripple token. So even if the tech explodes the token price might not

Read up on it, make your own mind up.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:01 pm

Sutton-Claret wrote:I'm beginning to get my head around this whole cryptocurrency malarky. I've been researching Ripple and reached the point I'm tempted to get in - befor I do does anybody experienced Ripple?

Ripple sort of the anti-cryptocurrency, it's built a reputation as being the one that's is favoured by corporations, banks and money transfer companies. It's also a lot less decentralised than other cryptos because the creators own nearly 65% of the coins which they haven't released onto the marketplace yet. The value of Ripple grew 35,000% over the course of 2017 and it reached fever pitch at the turn of the year by breaking the $3 per coin barrier. Since then it's been on a bit of a backslide and is now just about $2 per coin. Essentially opinions are divided as to the merits of Ripple and it's technology, however, I think because of the sheer volume of Ripple coins that are out there (100,000,000,000 in total), if you're looking to invest a little and have it turn into thousands that won't happen.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:16 pm

Sutton-Claret wrote:I'm beginning to get my head around this whole cryptocurrency malarky. I've been researching Ripple and reached the point I'm tempted to get in - befor I do does anybody experienced Ripple?

I don't like Ripple! The whole point of cryptocurrency (as I see it) is that it's supposed to be decentralised. Ripple is centralised and is basically a puppet of banks. It doesn't mean you can't make money off it. However, the huge profits have already been made, in my opinion.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:22 pm

NRC wrote:The market struggles to be liquid. I link my bank account to Coinbase and authorized another $1,000 to be transferred there two days ago (into Litecoin). The bad news is it is not confirmed for a week! The good news is that I thought I was buying in at the bottom of a dip - I'm hoping the mechanics are it buys Litecoin at its spot price rather than the price I signalled

It's extremely difficult to day trade crypto - I've had a couple of goes switching currency in between the three I hold on Coinbase (BTC, ETH, LTC) to arbitrage on their relative movement to each other, and failed.....

I've concluded to stay long based on the notion of long term adoption. I hold 2,000 TRON and am the same on that - I'm hoping it comes back on a pump action that I can catch before another dump

I'd say it's almost impossible to successfully day trade, especially on Coinbase which has rather high fees. You could always deposit to your Coinbase account with a credit or debit card and buy within seconds. However, I think there's a charge of around 3% which is on the steep side.

Most people I know that have made significant money in cryptocurrency did so by holding. I'm unsure of how far holding Tron will get you now. In my opinion, it's a scam coin and Justin Sun is a con artist. However, there's little logic in crypto at times so you never know!

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:37 pm

SammyBoy wrote:Has anybody invested in Air Token? If so I'd like to know your thoughts, I've had it recommended to me and I'm wondering whether it's a decent proposition.

274th coin by market cap. Honestly never heard of it and I often go into the weeds on these things.
Will have to read up on it first to have any opinion.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:22 pm

If you're attempting to day trade then something like Bittrex would be a better option than coinbase

AGENT_CLARET · Post by **AGENT_CLARET** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:26 am

Is any of this in ENGLISH.............. WTF ????? LOL

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:06 am

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:39 am

If it be your will wrote:I don't suppose you know, but is it possible to buy bitcoin anonymously? With cash? That would be the attraction for me - as an anonymous way to buy and sell globally, including at the point of entry.

(As an investment i think the whole thing is crackers. The main attractions of it being decentralised and that it can't be debased, are shared with gold. Of the two I'd much rather go with gold.)

Things like localbitcoins have options to pay in cash or there are ATMs where you can buy and sell them.

Bitcoin isn't fully anonymous though, you can still track the transactions even if you can't see who they are between. Something like Monero is fully private.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:21 pm

aggi wrote:Bitcoin isn't fully anonymous though, you can still track the transactions even if you can't see who they are between. Something like Monero is fully private.

Can't Bitcoins go to certain wallets where they can be 'washed'? Thus removing all trace of the sender, I remember my mate saying he did this years ago when buying from the Silk Road.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:22 pm

CombatClaret wrote:274th coin by market cap. Honestly never heard of it and I often go into the weeds on these things.
Will have to read up on it first to have any opinion.

Ah fair enough, I was just looking for a second opinion really.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:27 pm

SammyBoy wrote:Can't Bitcoins go to certain wallets where they can be 'washed'? Thus removing all trace of the sender, I remember my mate saying he did this years ago when buying from the Silk Road.

They can, I think it's referred to as "tumbling" where it's mixed in with other transactions and then back out again. The trouble is that transaction fees are high now so it's not really that economical.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:55 pm

If it be your will wrote:I don't suppose you know, but is it possible to buy bitcoin anonymously? With cash? That would be the attraction for me - as an anonymous way to buy and sell globally, including at the point of entry.

(As an investment i think the whole thing is crackers. The main attractions of it being decentralised and that it can't be debased, are shared with gold. Of the two I'd much rather go with gold.)

Hi iibyw, I thought "anonymity" was the whole point about bitcoin - that's why it's popular with criminals, drug dealers (both small time and the global concerns), terrorists and anyone else who wants to hide their wealth.... I guess we should also add that it is/has been popular in countries where citizens wanted to move money abroad outside the restrictions of their government.

Of course, these features are why the UK Gov't, EU and more are bringing in regulations that will (aim to) limit criminal funds transfer through cryptocurrencies.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:33 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi iibyw, I thought "anonymity" was the whole point about bitcoin - that's why it's popular with criminals, drug dealers (both small time and the global concerns), terrorists and anyone else who wants to hide their wealth.... I guess we should also add that it is/has been popular in countries where citizens wanted to move money abroad outside the restrictions of their government.

Of course, these features are why the UK Gov't, EU and more are bringing in regulations that will (aim to) limit criminal funds transfer through cryptocurrencies.

It's anonymous in that you don't know who owns the wallet. It's not anonymous in that you can track the coins going from wallet to wallet.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:43 pm

aggi wrote:It's anonymous in that you don't know who owns the wallet. It's not anonymous in that you can track the coins going from wallet to wallet.

Hi aggi, thanks for that explanation.

So, if I pay someone in a specific amount of bitcoin, including the time I make that payment, could I track that payment to a specific wallet? And, because I know who I've paid the bitcoin to, will I also be able to identify the owner of the wallet?

This is what always puzzles me about the "anonymity" claim - alongside the "audit trail" of all transactions.

How does the money launderer avoid detection?

BTW - I've read today that South Korea is clamping down on bitcoin - and up to 1/3 of all trades are by South Korean techies...

ian · Post by **ian** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:27 pm

Paul Waine wrote:So, if I pay someone in a specific amount of bitcoin, including the time I make that payment, could I track that payment to a specific wallet? And, because I know who I've paid the bitcoin to, will I also be able to identify the owner of the wallet?

yes, try https://bitref.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to find out the balance of any wallet using their public key. You won't find out who owns the wallet though.

Paul Waine wrote:BTW - I've read today that South Korea is clamping down on bitcoin - and up to 1/3 of all trades are by South Korean techies...

They'll come round eventually...

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:36 pm

ian wrote:yes, try https://bitref.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to find out the balance of any wallet using their public key. You won't find out who owns the wallet though.

They'll come round eventually...

Hi Ian, thanks. So, how do I pay someone? Don't I need to know their wallet address to do that? And, if I know who I'm paying and their wallet address, don't I know their balance - and their last 50 transactions, from the bitref link?

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:12 pm

Paul Waine wrote: I thought "anonymity" was the whole point about bitcoin - that's why it's popular with criminals, drug dealers (both small time and the global concerns), terrorists and anyone else who wants to hide their wealth...(aim to) limit criminal funds transfer through cryptocurrencies.

Bitcoin has been used by criminals but it's not popular compared to say cash which is the most crime laden medium of currency. By far the largest launderers of money are the banks; HSBC was shown to handle $880 billion in Mexican drug money and were simply fined. Standard Chartered received a fined for breaking sanctions on dealing with Iran and RBS were fined for fixing Libor rates.

Just some of the larger crimes recently uncovered by the banks who make billions from money laundering, cheating, war profiteering etc.

Saying Bitcoin is used by criminals is the same as saying terrorists use cars, but we don't ban cars.

Bdc · Post by **Bdc** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:52 pm

Anyone got any thoughts on Taas?

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:14 pm

Bdc wrote:Anyone got any thoughts on Taas?

So based on a little I've read it's closed fund who trade and pay dividends based on tokens? I've seen a few 'passive income' type things popping up based on crypto trading and other things.
They had a good ICO but everyone is right now in a crazy unregulated bull market. which is why getting in on an interesting sounding ICO might not be a terrible thing if you accept the risk but believe the market will hype it up a little and you could make some short term gains.

The main problem for me with these trust type is that they are long term holds based on small payouts from smart contracts so you can't judge their success in the short term.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Bitcoin has been used by criminals but it's not popular compared to say cash which is the most crime laden medium of currency. By far the largest launderers of money are the banks; HSBC was shown to handle $880 billion in Mexican drug money and were simply fined. Standard Chartered received a fined for breaking sanctions on dealing with Iran and RBS were fined for fixing Libor rates.

Just some of the larger crimes recently uncovered by the banks who make billions from money laundering, cheating, war profiteering etc.

Saying Bitcoin is used by criminals is the same as saying terrorists use cars, but we don't ban cars.

I see we see things differently, CC.

Yes, banks have been used by money launderers - and the banks have been fined and punished for not stopping this happening. I think the penalty in the UK can be 14 years in prison for assisting a money launderer. The comparison you are making is that the manufacturers of cars are guilty for drunk drivers...

And, yes, of course, criminals use cash. Didn't an American bank robber explain that he robbed banks because that was where the money is....

But, serious criminals now see the advantages of something that is outside the regulations - and so have "jumped on" bitcoin to facilitate their criminal activities.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:33 pm

Dipped my toe in the water last week and can confirm a twenty pence will dislodge a filling , especially if you do a crunch.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:56 pm

Paul Waine wrote:I
Yes, banks have been used by money launderers - and the banks have been fined and punished for not stopping this happening. I think the penalty in the UK can be 14 years in prison for assisting a money launderer. The comparison you are making is that the manufacturers of cars are guilty for drunk drivers...

And, yes, of course, criminals use cash. Didn't an American bank robber explain that he robbed banks because that was where the money is....

Twitter is a service used by the most terrible trolls, swaters, bigots, racists etc. But you should not blame the service or platform for what it's users do. Just like you shouldn't blame cash for people committing crimes with it. A small section of society will use anything for illegal purposes.

Paul Waine wrote:But, serious criminals now see the advantages of something that is outside the regulations - and so have "jumped on" bitcoin to facilitate their criminal activities.

Have they? The most successful bitcoin crimes have involved selling a handgun or a dozen MDMA pills online. Is this more serious than almost a trillion dollars laundered to fund an international drug and terrorist cartel? Which is more 'serious' in terms of scale and impact?

Speaking of terrorists If you want to cry ISIS, people have used bitcoin to send small individual donations which is a drop in the bucket compared to state sponsorship, stealing, oil sales etc.

Technology benefits everyone good and bad. Would you ban email because (Daily Mail mode activated) Pedophiles(!) can use it to exchange images!

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:56 pm

bfcjg wrote:Dipped my toe in the water last week and can confirm a twenty pence will dislodge a filling , especially if you do a crunch.

Bitcoin but never Bite Coin.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:03 am

CombatClaret wrote:Twitter is a service used by the most terrible trolls, swaters, bigots, racists etc. But you should not blame the service or platform for what it's users do. Just like you shouldn't blame cash for people committing crimes with it. A small section of society will use anything for illegal purposes.

Have they? The most successful bitcoin crimes have involved selling a handgun or a dozen MDMA pills online. Is this more serious than almost a trillion dollars laundered to fund an international drug and terrorist cartel? Which is more 'serious' in terms of scale and impact?

Speaking of terrorists If you want to cry ISIS, people have used bitcoin to send small individual donations which is a drop in the bucket compared to state sponsorship, stealing, oil sales etc.

Technology benefits everyone good and bad. Would you ban email because (Daily Mail mode activated) Pedophiles(!) can use it to exchange images!

Hey, no, I'm not saying ban blockchain and I'm not interested in banning bitcoin or any of the cryptocurrencies. But, I don't want to make things easier for any criminal activities, so I'm all in favour of these things being capable of good regulation. And, yes, I know that the whole idea of crypto was to escape governments and regulation.....

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:38 am

So it seems USI-Tec are on their way out....Ponzi scheme gone bad once again!

Carter2711 · Post by **Carter2711** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:21 am

ClaretDiver wrote:So it seems USI-Tec are on their way out....Ponzi scheme gone bad once again!

What makes you think usi tec are on the way out?

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:28 am

Carter2711 wrote:What makes you think usi tec are on the way out?

The fact they have pulled out of USA and Canada on legal grounds and lawyers are involved. As I read it nobody can invest, withdraw or otherwise....double dipping etc

Carter2711 · Post by **Carter2711** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:36 am

ClaretDiver wrote:The fact they have pulled out of USA and Canada on legal grounds and lawyers are involved. As I read it nobody can invest, withdraw or otherwise....double dipping etc

Yeah correct, due to compliance of those involved marketing it as something it isn't, the company voluntarily took that action to protect the other 78 countries it is involved in. People can still withdraw and are still receiving their returns they cannot put any more in until it's sorted

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:38 am

Carter2711 wrote:Yeah correct, due to compliance of those involved marketing it as something it isn't, the company voluntarily took that action to protect the other 78 countries it is involved in. People can still withdraw and are still receiving their returns they cannot put any more in until it's sorted

Well I am just glad I didnt invest bearing in mind the founders are blacklisted in several countries for similar ponzi schemes...

ebby · Post by **ebby** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:44 am

My son has just sold all his Bitcoin. Put into VeChain.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:50 pm

Fallen to a six week low to $11,182. (Coindesk)

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:54 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:Fallen to a six week low to $11,182. (Coindesk)

There has been a similar dip pretty much every year. It usually coincides with Chinese new year. However, Bitcoin is certainly ageing and likely dying. Ethereum will likely take its place later this year.