Former Russian Spy attacked in the UK

[Flatline]

Sounds like a load of pap because Russia won't submit on Syria.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

[IanMcL]

They put the nerve agent in the luggage of his daughter when she left Moscow.

The nerve gas is in two different container and only becomes lethal when combined. Easily transportable.

(I am told! )

[JohnMac]

We have expelled some of their diplomats and they have decided to retaliate and send 23 of ours back.

That'll teach the Bastards not to mess with us!

[Spijed]

With Russia retaliating in the same way basically says that both sides still want to deal with each other as expelling diplomats isn't exactly dangerous.

[levraiclaret]

"Putin: The New Tsar" and a follow up Panorama report by John Sweeney "Taking on Putin" on iplayer provides context on the way the way Russia is being governed.

Comments by Gary Kasparov, the former premier of Georgia and the clip of Putin Merkel and the dog, are illuminating.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... e-new-tsar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Imploding Turtle]

It's fascinating how so many of the self-proclaimed patriots of this country (the far right) are defending Russia. I'm not saying we should blindly accept what our government is telling us, but it's funny how so many of the far-right are so quick to blindly believe Russia's innocence. I suppose it's because they and Putin's political views align quite nicely, but i'm open to a better explanation.

[Lancasterclaret]

There isn't one.

You could add that Putins version of democracy is what they like as well.

[bluelabrador16]

A bit of background:

Russia’s Long Road Toward Resurgence

"SouthFront produced another masterpiece: a documentary entitled “Russia’s Long Road Toward Resurgence“. You can think of it as a “crash course in modern Russian history”. I would have a few comments/corrections/disagreements but they would be minor and would not affect the key theses of this documentary. In fact, this is truly an excellent summary so, please, do watch is and spread it on your social media and amongst your friends."

https://thesaker.is/russias-long-road-t ... cumentary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or
https://southfront.org/russias-long-roa ... esurgence/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (transcript)

Worth watching.....

[Lancasterclaret]

Well, they are still only the 14th biggest economy in the world and have failed to diversify from their almost complete reliance on oil/gas exports (a lot of that is down the endemic corruption that directly benefits Putin and the billionaires)

There military has modernised massively over the last few years, but its no match for NATO, especially on the sea and in the air. Biggest problem they have is a lack of allies in the regions that they regard as crucial. One of the reasons they are very keen on election manipulation in the West is that they can possibly fracture the Western nations (but its a long shot)

Putin has certainly strengthened Russia, but the only way he thinks he can do is to effectively become the Soviet Union in all but name with a sham of an election and complete disregard for the rule of law when dealing with political opponents.

And of course there is this nerve agent in Sailsbury thing. Its an absolutely massive escalation which has united the Western alliance and perhaps Putin has miscalculated.

But hey, as long as the internet in around, there will be plenty of mis-information about Russia and what it is.

[bluelabrador16]

Lancasterclaret

Why don't you simply watch the video or read the transcription.

"Putin’s actions to reform the economy, strengthen the vertical of power and the rule of law provoked active resistance from a significant part of the oligarchy, those who can be called the “supranational elites.” These oligarchs were supported by Western leaders and media. A struggle with them took place under the guise of traditional democratic and liberal slogans.

In February 2000, the first of these oligarchs, Gusinskiy, was arrested. A number of other oligarchs, as well as US president Bill Clinton and Israeli Politician Shimon Peres, immediately jumped to his defense. Gusinskiy was released from custody and hid in Spain.....

In December 2000, another odious oligarch, Boris Berezovskiy emigrated to London without waiting for the results of the investigation into the “Aeroflot case”.....

".. US spent about $ 65 million “on the development of democracy” in Ukraine.

Disgraced Russian oligarchs also actively participated in the financing of events in Ukraine. According to Forbes investigation, Berizovsky alone, spent more than $ 70 million to support the “orange revolution”......

After the election...

"......International crisis pressure would have to be based on several unrelated but major charges against Russia’s leaders. The British provocation in the form of “the Skripal poisoning” fits into this scenario perfectly, as does the alleged preparations by the Syrian government to use chemical weapons in Eastern Ghouta, as do the provocations in eastern Ukraine. It is entirely possible that the world will see, during the 2-3 weeks immediately after the elections, several other improbably brazen anti-Russian provocations.

Even if they fail to damage Russia’s statehood, they will serve as an excuse to strengthen Russian sanctions in 2018, expand efforts against the so-called Russian propaganda and, most importantly, to significantly increase US defense spending as well as defense spending of several other NATO countries."

Comments:

Superfly

"Russia needs to start creating a strong succession plan after Putin, as US/Zionist and NATO thugs agenda is . Balkanization of Russia and plunder of its resources President Putin has taken some time to recognize that NATO "partners" are out to destroy Russia. The military and security forces need to be strengthened and perhaps going back to a more nationalistic era of planned economy."

Gosh!

[Lancasterclaret]

Well. Gosh!, you'll love this thread

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... 4300648454" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[UpTheBeehole]

I'm sure we'll still club together to bomb the Kurds who are fighting against IS in Syria.

News today that a British girl fighting with the Kurds against IS has been killed by Turkish airstrikes, airstrikes carried out with British hardware sold to them by Theresa May.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43453292

[UpTheBeehole]

Rest in Peace Anna Campbell

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... yria-afrin

[Lancasterclaret]

The harsh realities of turning up to fight a war with AK-47s and idealism versus a nation state with smart weaponry.

[UpTheBeehole]

The harsh realities of turning up to fight a war with AK-47s and idealism versus a nation state with smart weaponry.

She was fighting against IS. Turkey have taken it upon themselves to bomb units fighting against IS.

[Lancasterclaret]

The Kurds are fighting the Turks as well, and have been for nigh on thirty years.

Ideological ideas of what is right don't change the reality of the situation on the ground UTB.

[Sidney1st]

News today that a British girl fighting with the Kurds against IS has been killed by Turkish airstrikes, airstrikes carried out with British hardware sold to them by Theresa May.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43453292

I'll assume you've got an invoice with proof of sale?
It could've been Cameron.

Turkey also buys weapons from Russia.

[Sidney1st]

Haven't the Kurds & the Turks been fighting each other for decades now?

[UpTheBeehole]

I'll assume you've got an invoice with proof of sale?
It could've been Cameron.

Turkey also buys weapons from Russia.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ghts-abuse
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article ... s-on-trail

While Saudi Arabia deploys British arms to turn Yemen into a moonscape, another U.K. ally, Turkey, is using them against its political enemies in neighbouring Afrin, the most densely populated part of Kurdish Syria.

Afrin was, until January 10, a safe haven for minorities, including Sunni, Shia and Turkmen refugees fleeing the violence of the Syrian Civil War.

Now it is under artillery bombardment and aerial assault by the Turkish military. Shelling has caused hundreds of casualties and thousands of internally displaced people.

True to form, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has rounded up hundreds of anti-war demonstrators and said that they would "pay a high price," warning that his security services would "crush anyone who opposes our national struggle."

Turkish courts jailed 11 medics for criticizing the country's Afrin assault, euphemistically named 'Operation Olive Branch.'

Since the botched 2015 elections that precipitated the July 2016 coup attempt by military elements, Erdogan has tightened his grip on the country, assuming new constitutional powers and jailing thousands of Kurds, from MPs to children. After secret trials, parliamentary members of Labour's sister parties, the CHP and HDP, have been jailed, one for 25 years. Journalists who cry foul are also jailed; Turkey has jailed more reporters than any other country on Earth.

The British government has been eyeing Erdogan's authoritarian streak with something akin to excitement.

The Defence & Security Organisation, tax-payer-funded sales reps for the private arms sector, summed up the U.K.'s position in a public memo: "With increasing budgets and the second-largest army in Nato, there are opportunities for UK industry." Soon after this memo it named Turkey as a "priority market."

Since Erdogan strengthened his grip, the U.K. has licensed to Turkey £150m (€171m) in arms, principally aircraft, helicopters, drones, grenades, small arms and ammunition. Theresa May also singed a £100m deal for additional U.K. aircraft to be provided by BAE Systems and TAI, which has been awarded with an Open General Export Licence to ease the flow of weapons between the U.K. and Turkey.

But while Yemen has been written off by the government as an expendable backwater, the YPG is a key member of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), Britain's ally in its war against the Islamic State (ISIS). Several Britons, including a former marine, have fought with them on the ground. Only a month before the Turkish offensive, the Ministry of Defence was trumpeting British air support of the SDF's battles against "extremists in eastern Syria."

It now appears that now the Kurds have served their purpose in degrading ISIS, the Tories are prepared to lay them on the alta of the its new post-Brexit industrial strategy. This strategy constitutes playing fast and lose with U.K. arms export law to cash in on the rising tide of nationalism and violence in the Middle East.

Never mind the risk of blowback caused by our foreign policy potentially radicalizing another group of Muslims against us. And never mind the death and destruction wrought by nations who we enable and legitimise by licensing them arms sales. After all, long before Brexit, the Foreign Office said that human rights had been deprioritized to to business. Brexit has dropped them even further down the list of priorities.

Arming Turkey presents the same problems as arming Saudi Arabia. Both are internally repressive, both institutionally use torture and both have on occasion exercised violent collective punishment against minorities. They also both support al-Qaeda in Syria, a designated terrorist organisation, so both present clear diversion risks.

The ministerial forward to the government's 2016 Strategic Export Controls Report said that "rigorous export controls are vital" because they "safeguard Britain's national security ... [and] uphold our values by taking account of potential risks to human rights, international humanitarian law and sustainable development."

Does arming repressive nations that use jihadis to fight proxy wars uphold the values of this government? Perhaps it does. But the fact that we can—and do—certainly proves that our arms export control regime is broken.

These are exactly the markets that our system says it is illegal for U.K. arms manufacturers and brokers to sell to. Yet the deals keep getting cut and the bombs keep falling.

Nobody doubts that repression and war is big business, but it is not the business Britain should be in—for the security of both the Yemenis and the Kurds, but also British civilians on British soil. It is not complicated stuff, all I ask is for the government abide by the law.

https://www.newsweek.co.uk/arming-turke ... why-535182

[Lancasterclaret]

My big issue here is that Turkey is in NATO

Suggesting that we shouldn't sell arms to a fellow NATO member is, well, bonkers.

[Sidney1st]

Quick scan of upthebeehole's usual copy and paste job shows two things.

1 the dates jump about a bit, I see a reference to 2015.
2 whilst a deal has been signed do you know for certain that A the weapons have been made and B said weapons were used to kill British woman?

In regards to 2- an order can be placed but it doesn't mean weapons are sat on a shelf ready to be shipped, they can be ordered X amount of months/years before they're ready.
You do know that's how it works don't you?

[Sidney1st]

Oh and to make sure I'm consistent on here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... npolicy.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bluelabrador16]

First Recorded Successful Novichok Synthesis was in 2016 – By Iran, in Cooperation with the OPCW........Craig Murray

"The line that novichoks can only be produced by Russia is now proven to be a complete lie....

I have now been sent the vital information that in late 2016, Iranian scientists set out to study whether novichoks really could be produced from commercially available ingredients. Iran succeeded in synthesising a number of novichoks. Iran did this in full cooperation with the OPCW and immediately reported the results to the OPCW so they could be added to the chemical weapons database.

This makes complete nonsense of the Theresa May’s “of a type developed by Russia” line, used to parliament and the UN Security Council. This explains why Porton Down have refused to cave into governmental pressure to say the nerve agent was Russian. If Iran can make a novichok, so can a significant number of states.

While Iran acted absolutely responsibly in cooperating with the OPCW, there are a handful of rogue states operating outwith the rule of international law, like Israel and North Korea, which refuse to ratify the Chemical Weapons Convention, join the OPCW or destroy their chemical weapons stocks. Russia has cooperated in the OPCW destruction of all its chemical weapons stocks, completed last year, which included regular OPCW inspection of all the sites alleged to have been in the original “novichok” programme. Why nobody is even looking at the rogue states outwith the OPCW is a genuine puzzle."

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... -the-opcw/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Skripal case is a carefully-constructed drama' - John Pilger

"Russia-UK relations plunge amid row over the poisoning of a former spy. Award-winning journalist John Pilger joins RT to discuss this issue."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxRiG8vRRBk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Comments:

Nietzschean Ideal

"Surprised no passport, signed confession and "I love Putin" labeled 8 x 10 photo were found on site."

UK's claims questioned: doubts voiced about source of Salisbury novichok ....Sergei Skripal

Ceremony to mark the destruction of Russia’s stock of chemical weapons was held last November

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... s-novichok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lancasterclaret]

Well knock me down with a feather and call me Adrianne, it was those bloody Zionists!

Who would have thought it eh?

[bluelabrador16]

Especially for you Lancasterclaret:

A Zionazi site you will love.

Guardian legitimises Craig Murray’s anti-Israel conspiracy theory on Russian spy poisoning

http://hurryupharry.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Probably, the only link by me that you will actually visit!

[bluelabrador16]

Boris Johnson A Categorical Liar ..... Craig Murray

"Evidence submitted by the British government in court today proves, beyond any doubt, that Boris Johnson has been point blank lying about the degree of certainty Porton Down scientists have about the Skripals being poisoned with a Russian “novichok” agent.

Yesterday in an interview with Deutsche Welle Boris Johnson claimed directly Porton Down had told him they positively identified the nerve agent as Russian:

You argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is Russia. How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain possess samples of it?

Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory …

So they have the samples …

They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt.

I knew and had published from my own whistleblowers that this is a lie. Until now I could not prove it. But today I can absolutely prove it, due to the judgement at the High Court case which gave permission for new blood samples to be taken from the Skripals for use by the OPCW. Justice Williams included in his judgement a summary of the evidence which tells us, directly for the first time, what Porton Down have actually said:

The Evidence

i) CC: Porton Down Chemical and Biological Analyst Blood samples from Sergei Skripal and Yulia Skripal were analysed and the
findings indicated exposure to a nerve agent or related compound. The samples tested positive for the presence of a Novichok class nerve agent OR CLOSELY RELATED AGENT.

This sworn Court evidence direct from Porton Down is utterly incompatible with what Boris Johnson has been saying. The truth is that Porton Down have not even positively identified this as a “Novichok”, as opposed to “a closely related agent”. Even if it were a “Novichok” that would not prove manufacture in Russia, and a “closely related agent” could be manufactured by literally scores of state and non-state actors.

This constitutes irrefutable evidence that the government have been straight out lying – to Parliament, to the EU, to NATO, to the United Nations, and above all to the people – about their degree of certainty of the origin of the attack. It might well be an attack originating in Russia, but there is indeed other possibilities and investigation is needed. As the government has sought to whip up jingoistic hysteria in advance of forthcoming local elections, the scale of the lie has daily increased.

On a sombre note, I am very much afraid the High Court evidence seems to indicate there is very little chance the Skripals will ever recover; one of the reasons the judge gave for his decision is that samples taken now will be better for analysis than samples taken post-mortem...

The state and corporate media now have evidence of the vast discrepancy between what May and Johnson are saying, and the truth about the Porton Down scientists’ position. I am afraid to say I expect this to make no difference whatsoever to the propaganda output of the BBC."

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... ical-liar/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lancasterclaret]

When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory …

I've seen as much evidence on this as he has. I can't help noticing that you are a massive fan of selective quoting stuff?

Why bother?

Its all ******** and a good chuckle whatever you post.

[bluelabrador16]

A probing article:

The campaign over the Skripal poisoning: An international war provocation ....... Chris Marsden

"The campaign by the imperialist powers in Europe and the United States over the poisoning of former Russian spy and British double agent Sergei Skripal stinks to high heaven. The most far-reaching claims are being made, with the most far-reaching consequences, without any substantiation.

The propaganda offensive is not about what may or may not have happened in a park in Salisbury, England on March 4. It is about creating the pretext for a massive escalation of the war drive in Syria, the broader Middle East, and against Russia itself.

When Skripal and his daughter were first discovered on a park bench, the police declared that establishing what had happened would take weeks, if not months. The British government, however, has wrapped up the case far more quickly than any conventional criminal inquiry.....

March 20 marks the 15th anniversary of the launching of the 2003 Iraq war based on a torrent of lies. As part of a concerted campaign to “prove” the existence of weapons of mass destruction, the US and UK spent months manufacturing intelligence, producing two “dodgy dossiers,” and even sending in weapons inspectors to Iraq. After these inspectors found no evidence of a nuclear or chemical weapons programme, on February 5, US Secretary of State Colin Powell appeared before the United Nations to present his infamous and wholly manufactured slide show, purporting to show photographic “evidence” of Iraq hiding unconventional weapons. On March 18, on this basis, the Labour government of Tony Blair committed the UK to support a US-led war.

The same playbook is being used again, only the case now being made against Russia regarding Skripal is even flimsier than that offered up to justify war against Iraq........"

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/0 ... d=mostread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... &start=105" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Comment:

Elvis...

"..What makes May's conspiracy theories so much more dangerous than those of the 500-lb guy in his mother's basement is that depending how she acts on them, a million people might be killed as a result.."

[Imploding Turtle]

"..What makes May's conspiracy theories so much more dangerous than those of the 500-lb guy in his mother's basement is that depending how she acts on them, a million people might be killed as a result.."



Does this clown think May's going to carpet bomb Moscow or something?

[bluelabrador16]

Imploding Turtle

"..carpet bomb Moscow or something?"

I could ask Elvis if you like.

Iran, Damascus, Southern Lebanon, etc



Yes, John Bolton Really Is That Dangerous

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opin ... viser.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ElectroClaret]

The US expelling 60 Russian diplomats.

14 EU states to also expel Russian diplomatic staff. (BBC)

[Sidney1st]

Apparently Porton Down can't confirm the stuff came from Russia.

This is going to make things interesting.

[Rick_Muller]

Apparently Porton Down can't confirm the stuff came from Russia.

This is going to make things interesting.

That’s all well and good Sid, but don’t forget the government are sure that it is, even if the experts can’t prove it

[Bordeauxclaret]

I think we have had enough of experts.

[Rick_Muller]

I think we have had enough of experts.

I think we’ve had enough of this government...

[Sidney1st]

I think we’ve had enough of this government...

I've had enough of all politicians.

[Damo]

Apparently Porton Down can't confirm the stuff came from Russia.

This is going to make things interesting.

If you read beyond the headline, they said it was their job to identify what the substance was. Not where it came from

IMG_20180403_203337.jpg (310.53 KiB) Viewed 2768 times

[Lancasterclaret]

All I'll say is do some research on Russia, and on Putin, and on KGB assassination techniques on defectors.

Then try to think about where else can a military grade nerve agent come from? You can't just get it from Tescos.

Then try to think of who the target was

Then try to think of any other possible explanation that makes any sense when you consider points one, two and three.

[Saxoman]

Who is blue Labrador? Is he a football fan?

[ontario claret]

No. He's my dog.

[Sidney1st]

Who is blue Labrador? Is he a football fan?

They run the UTC Jewish/Zionist fan club.

[Lancasterclaret]

This is good on this btw

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/9 ... 5121329152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AndrewJB]

Is there anyone more dangerous to our security than Boris Johnson in this whole sorry episode?

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... e-expected" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rick_Muller]

All I'll say is do some research on Russia, and on Putin, and on KGB assassination techniques on defectors.

Then try to think about where else can a military grade nerve agent come from? You can't just get it from Tescos.

Then try to think of who the target was

Then try to think of any other possible explanation that makes any sense when you consider points one, two and three.

Yep, done all that and I cannot say that it was Putin and Russia who did this and be 100% certain - anyone who would dismiss other possibilities so easily are those who can be easily influenced such as the majority of people and therein lies my issues. There is a possibility that his daughter, who actually transported the stuff as far as I know, could be complicit in what happened. What I am certain of is that no member of the public will ever actually know what happened and will have to trust what they are told.

[Imploding Turtle]

Yep, done all that and I cannot say that it was Putin and Russia who did this and be 100% certain - anyone who would dismiss other possibilities so easily are those who can be easily influenced such as the majority of people and therein lies my issues. There is a possibility that his daughter, who actually transported the stuff as far as I know, could be complicit in what happened. What I am certain of is that no member of the public will ever actually know what happened and will have to trust what they are told.

Yes, of course you can trust which ever side you want to trust, or none. But you can also apply a bit of logic and look at how many countries we have managed to convince to a high enough standard that they will join us in kicking out Russian diplomats. And also look at how many countries we've shown this evidence to who then haven't kicked out diplomats and then went public with why they weren't convinced.

You don't have to trust our government or security services to believe them. It's perfectly possible to believe them while also thinking for yourself.

[thatdberight]

Yep, done all that and I cannot say that it was Putin and Russia who did this and be 100% certain - anyone who would dismiss other possibilities so easily are those who can be easily influenced such as the majority of people and therein lies my issues. There is a possibility that his daughter, who actually transported the stuff as far as I know, could be complicit in what happened. What I am certain of is that no member of the public will ever actually know what happened and will have to trust what they are told.

It may be that those who dismiss other possibilities as infeasible are those who have way more information than you do? Congratulations that you're not one of the sheeple, what with being so hard to convince and all that. Where do you get that his daughter transported "the stuff"? With all the research you've done and you being so hard to put off the scent, I'm interested.

Here's a present by the way. Me being a sheeple, I have no use for it.

recycling-aluminium-foil.jpg (34.55 KiB) Viewed 2476 times

[Rick_Muller]

It may be that those who dismiss other possibilities as infeasible are those who have way more information than you do? Congratulations that you're not one of the sheeple, what with being so hard to convince and all that. Where do you get that his daughter transported "the stuff"? With all the research you've done and you being so hard to put off the scent, I'm interested.

Here's a present by the way. Me being a sheeple, I have no use for it.

recycling-aluminium-foil.jpg

Thanks for the present - doing some chicken for tea so it’s appreciated.

In terms of his daughter bringing it from Russia, it was reported in many news outlets as a fact a few weeks ago, I’ve not really paid that much attention to the situation recently and have since searched again and found it difficult to find a reputable source now. I’m sorry I can’t control the internet and find a suitable link for you, but I do know what I read a few weeks back, and I am certain it had been concluded that she transported it.

Thanks for correcting me though.

[Lancasterclaret]

Rick, you know all that I've mentioned.......

You've even got today a blatant faked phone call being reporting in the Russian press......

Remember the 2014 Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine by Putin backed rebels?

Russia just ignored all the evidence that pointed to them, and spent millions on an internet campaign so that people go "oh, it can't be them" Four years later, no solution, which suits Russia down to the ground.

It says it all that I trust May more than the Russians in stuff like this. I cannot stress that enough that this is a classic Russian/KGB hit for domestic and foreign consumption and there is now a classic Russian disinformation campaign in full swing.

[Imploding Turtle]

In what way is it blatantly fake? I've heard of the call being aired but not anything about its authenticity.