Death Penalty for drug dealers

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:57 pm

The Republican Party, ladies and gentlemen.
The pro-life party of personal freedoms and individual responcibility in America. While also being pro-death penalty, don't want the people to be allowed to take drugs if they want to, and wants to kill other people for feeding someone elses addiction.

Yes, stalkers and weirdos. This is another America thread.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:01 pm

They should bring it in here for turtles.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:06 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The Republican Party, ladies and gentlemen.
The pro-life party of personal freedoms and individual responcibility in America. While also being pro-death penalty, don't want the people to be allowed to take drugs if they want to, and wants to kill other people for feeding someone elses addiction.

Yes, stalkers and weirdos. This is another America thread.

First time I flew to Singapore I was "struck" by the very large (full wall) poster in the arrivals hall: "The penalty of drug dealing is death." It made me nervous - and I've never done anything stonger than alcohol.

The death penalty is wrong, in my view, whatever the crime, whatever the circumstances. I say a little prayer every time I hear of a prisoner on death row in the USA suffering their execution.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:08 pm

"I looked at his twitter profile, and sure enough, he's a gentleman from Texas, he's a fundamentalist creationist Christian — which is fine, he loves God. He loves God and fetuses, mainly. He loves the fetus from conception till when it turns out gay."

Ricky Gervais from his Humanity show.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:10 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The Republican Party, ladies and gentlemen.
The pro-life party of personal freedoms and individual responcibility in America. While also being pro-death penalty, don't want the people to be allowed to take drugs if they want to, and wants to kill other people for feeding someone elses addiction.

Yes, stalkers and weirdos. This is another America thread.

Is that the American way of spelling "Responsibility" ?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:18 pm

conyoviejo wrote:Is that the American way of spelling "Responsibility" ?

**** knows.
I think it's just wrong.

Jeffbfc · Post by **Jeffbfc** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:28 pm

Paul Waine wrote:First time I flew to Singapore I was "struck" by the very large (full wall) poster in the arrivals hall: "The penalty of drug dealing is death." It made me nervous - and I've never done anything stonger than alcohol.

The death penalty is wrong, in my view, whatever the crime, whatever the circumstances. I say a little prayer every time I hear of a prisoner on death row in the USA suffering their execution.

From memory I think it's on the landing card you have to fill in.
If you agree with the death penalty or not.
If caught dealing entering Singapore, you know the risk.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:31 pm

Paul Waine wrote:First time I flew to Singapore I was "struck" by the very large (full wall) poster in the arrivals hall: "The penalty of drug dealing is death." It made me nervous - and I've never done anything stonger than alcohol.

The death penalty is wrong, in my view, whatever the crime, whatever the circumstances. I say a little prayer every time I hear of a prisoner on death row in the USA suffering their execution.

I noticed that sign too

Makes you think... Did I leave my bag unattended. But then again I'd just come from Qatar with my unmarried missus and son... I was just happy to be out of there without a 25-life for that reason.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:33 pm

Wouldn't bother me, they have little value in a decent society, if people choose to deal drugs, fully knowing youngsters are having their lives ruined for these scumbags to make a fast buck, i would prefer them to be killed. They have a choice, and if they want to avoid death penalty, don't become involved in dealing.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:33 pm

A quick wiki shows Singapore;

Drug trafficking
Johannes van Damme, a Dutch engineer hanged in September 1994. He was the first European to be executed in Singapore since the country gained independence in 1965.
Tong Ching-man, Lam Cheuk-wang, and Poon Yuen-chung, three Hong Kong women hanged in April 1995. Tong and Poon were both 18 years old when they were caught with heroin in their possession at Changi Airport in 1988 and 1991 respectively.[61]
Angel Mou Pui-peng, a Macau-born Hong Kong woman hanged in December 1995. A single mother, she was 25 at the time of her execution.[62][63]
Shanmugam Murugesu, hanged in May 2005. Before his execution, around 120 people attended a three-hour vigil held for him in Furama Hotel. An earlier petition for clemency was rejected by President S. R. Nathan.[64]
Van Tuong Nguyen, a Vietnamese-Australian hanged in December 2005 for drug trafficking. A plea for clemency from the Australian government was rejected by the Singapore authorities.
Iwuchukwu Amara Tochi, a Nigerian hanged in January 2007. Pleas for clemency from Amnesty International, the United Nations, and Nigeria's President Olusegun Obasanjo were rejected by President S. R. Nathan.
Muhammad Ridzuan Md Ali, executed on 19 May 2017.[65] His appeals were all thrown out.
Vignes Mourthi, Malaysian hanged on September 26, 2003.[66] Executed for trafficking 27.65g of heroin.
Prabagaran Srivijayan, a Malaysian hanged on July 14, 2017.[67] Convicted of importing 22.24g of heroin

...

Outrage at that Turtle... it's not something being discussed, it's actually happened and ongoing.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:34 pm

starting_11 wrote:A quick wiki shows Singapore;

Drug trafficking
Johannes van Damme, a Dutch engineer hanged in September 1994. He was the first European to be executed in Singapore since the country gained independence in 1965.
Tong Ching-man, Lam Cheuk-wang, and Poon Yuen-chung, three Hong Kong women hanged in April 1995. Tong and Poon were both 18 years old when they were caught with heroin in their possession at Changi Airport in 1988 and 1991 respectively.[61]
Angel Mou Pui-peng, a Macau-born Hong Kong woman hanged in December 1995. A single mother, she was 25 at the time of her execution.[62][63]
Shanmugam Murugesu, hanged in May 2005. Before his execution, around 120 people attended a three-hour vigil held for him in Furama Hotel. An earlier petition for clemency was rejected by President S. R. Nathan.[64]
Van Tuong Nguyen, a Vietnamese-Australian hanged in December 2005 for drug trafficking. A plea for clemency from the Australian government was rejected by the Singapore authorities.
Iwuchukwu Amara Tochi, a Nigerian hanged in January 2007. Pleas for clemency from Amnesty International, the United Nations, and Nigeria's President Olusegun Obasanjo were rejected by President S. R. Nathan.
Muhammad Ridzuan Md Ali, executed on 19 May 2017.[65] His appeals were all thrown out.
Vignes Mourthi, Malaysian hanged on September 26, 2003.[66] Executed for trafficking 27.65g of heroin.
Prabagaran Srivijayan, a Malaysian hanged on July 14, 2017.[67] Convicted of importing 22.24g of heroin

...

Outrage at that Turtle... it's not something being discussed, it's actually happened and ongoing.

#whataboutism

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:36 pm

Clever.

Not.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:37 pm

I'll go along with that.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:42 pm

Jeffbfc wrote:From memory I think it's on the landing card you have to fill in.
If you agree with the death penalty or not.
If caught dealing entering Singapore, you know the risk.

I've often got of the plane at Changi and only realised I needed to fill in a landing card when I got to the front of the passport desk queue.

Oh well, at least I'd slept for a while on the flight.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:00 pm

Jeffbfc wrote:From memory I think it's on the landing card you have to fill in.
If you agree with the death penalty or not.
If caught dealing entering Singapore, you know the risk.

Dame in Malaysia and Indonesia is tough on it. Simple don't carry drugs in.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:03 pm

VENOMOUS

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:04 pm

Death penalty for arms dealers ?

Ooogeorgeorgeoghani · Post by **Ooogeorgeorgeoghani** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:10 pm

On topic quite a few local dealers been given sentences this week by the courts , one of the sentences read "IT WAS WELL WORTH IT FEW YEARS INSIDE FOR MILLIONS IN MY POCKET "

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:21 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The Republican Party, ladies and gentlemen.
The pro-life party of personal freedoms and individual responcibility in America. While also being pro-death penalty, don't want the people to be allowed to take drugs if they want to, and wants to kill other people for feeding someone elses addiction.

Yes, stalkers and weirdos. This is another America thread.

Just for clarity - the tone of your post suggests that not wanting "the people to be allowed to take drugs if they want to" is a bad thing. Are you saying that punishment for drug dealers is a bad thing per se, or are you saying drug dealers should be punished but not with the death penalty?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:29 pm

dsr wrote:Just for clarity - the tone of your post suggests that not wanting "the people to be allowed to take drugs if they want to" is a bad thing. Are you saying that punishment for drug dealers is a bad thing per se, or are you saying drug dealers should be punished but not with the death penalty?

I was pointing out the Republican party's hypocrisy. They claim to be pro-life yet support the death penalty. They claim to be all about individual freedoms yet want it to be illegal to take drugs. They claim to be all about personal responcibility, yet want to execute drug dealers for exploiting other people's addictions.

But since you asked, yes i think drug dealers should be punished if they break the law. However i don't think there should be a law against what someone wants to do to their own body, such as take drugs. Drugs should be regulated and legal.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:30 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Well it was a pretty stupid post you made. Using your logic to imply some kind of hypocrisy you could easily justify or explain it away if Trump decided to go around shooting people he simply suspected of dealing drugs. Because if anyone criticises him you can point to it happening in the Phillipines.

Imagine the government here ignored the EU referendum result and refused to implement Brexit. When you scream and cry about it would you think a good counter to your complaints be an idiot coming along and pointing out some of the times when you didn't get outraged at a lack of democracy in Saudi Arabia, or Iran, or Russia?

Just don't be stupid. Think before you make yourself look like a dribbling moron.

Thems a lot of words.

Shame I can't be ****** reading your drivel.

****.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:43 pm

"Think before you make yourself look like a dribbling moron."

They're not all daft that dribble.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:48 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:Wouldn't bother me, they have little value in a decent society, if people choose to deal drugs, fully knowing youngsters are having their lives ruined for these scumbags to make a fast buck, i would prefer them to be killed. They have a choice, and if they want to avoid death penalty, don't become involved in dealing.

Drug dealers are already being killed in their droves in the UK, especially in London. What do you the think the rise in knife/violent crime is over?

There are hundreds if not thousands of young people in the UK, coerced, forced, and manipulated, to deal drugs on the behalf of older gang members and adults, who pull the strings behind the scenes, safe in the knowledge it’s not them out on the streets taking the risk.

I work in London, and I see the damage drugs does to society every single day. I see people killing each other over drug patches, and I see the impact on families and love ones who have to pick up the pieces.

Those often caught dealing are kids, from broken homes, with parents that don’t give a **** and have paid zero interest in their upbringing. They haven’t had a chance in life. Sure, there needs to be punishment, but there has to be education too, or else it’s an endless cycle of violence and a conveyor belt of young impressionable kids being taken advantage of.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:55 pm

This is why it should all be decriminalised. No massive profits for dealers then. And no need for heroin addicts to steal either (if their doctors prescribed it).

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:28 pm

AndrewJB wrote:This is why it should all be decriminalised. No massive profits for dealers then. And no need for heroin addicts to steal either (if their doctors prescribed it).

It's an insanely 'nanny-state' law too. Yet those people who cry about the government telling you to eat more fruit are usually the same people who are more than happy for the government to literally make it a crime to do certain things to your own body.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's an insanely 'nanny-state' law too. Yet those people who cry about the government telling you to eat more fruit are usually the same people who are more than happy for the government to literally make it a crime to do certain things to your own body.

I'm a bit surprised at this "kill yourself - I should care" attitude. The problem drug addicts have, from alcohol to crack cocaine, is that they have lost control of themselves - they are no longer mentally capable of making informed decisions. Shouldn't the law protect them?

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:36 pm

Death Penalty for Cocaine users especially those who are rich would make a lot more sense.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:38 pm

dsr wrote:I'm a bit surprised at this "kill yourself - I should care" attitude. The problem drug addicts have, from alcohol to crack cocaine, is that they have lost control of themselves - they are no longer mentally capable of making informed decisions. Shouldn't the law protect them?

That's an unsurprisingly dumb interpretation of what i've said.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:39 pm

It's legal to drink alcohol. There are alcoholics. Do you think I don't care that people become alcoholics and die of alcoholism?

Assuming you don't believe that alcohol should be illegal, do you think it reasonable for me to assume you therefore have a "kill yourself - i should care" attitude to alcohol?

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:43 pm

dsr wrote:I'm a bit surprised at this "kill yourself - I should care" attitude. The problem drug addicts have, from alcohol to crack cocaine, is that they have lost control of themselves - they are no longer mentally capable of making informed decisions. Shouldn't the law protect them?

The laws themselves make it more likely to kill people. There’s no quality control for street drugs, no safety pamphlets, and those who sell it are incentivised to find new customers. When a heroin addict dies with a needle in their arm we call it “heroin overdose” but it isn’t really that. A heroin overdose takes hours to kill you, so you wouldn’t suddenly fall down dead. What is actually killing them is whatever it’s been diluted with. Considering many heroin users are forced into crime to cover their habits, and unclean street heroin has a several thousand percent markup, putting those dealers out of out of business would be the easiest thing in the world. At the same time of t would instantly transform the lives of everyone else for the better.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:47 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The laws themselves make it more likely to kill people. There’s no quality control for street drugs, no safety pamphlets, and those who sell it are incentivised to find new customers. When a heroin addict dies with a needle in their arm we call it “heroin overdose” but it isn’t really that. A heroin overdose takes hours to kill you, so you wouldn’t suddenly fall down dead. What is actually killing them is whatever it’s been diluted with. Considering many heroin users are forced into crime to cover their habits, and unclean street heroin has a several thousand percent markup, putting those dealers out of out of business would be the easiest thing in the world. At the same time of t would instantly transform the lives of everyone else for the better.

Portugal decriminalised 15 years ago. I don't recall them falling into the sea.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opin ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:50 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's legal to drink alcohol. There are alcoholics. Do you think I don't care that people become alcoholics and die of alcoholism?

Assuming you don't believe that alcohol should be illegal, do you think it reasonable for me to assume you therefore have a "kill yourself - i should care" attitude to alcohol?

Drug/alcohol addicts are those who are addicted just as those who are addicted to gambling have lost control, the argument being there are those who use drugs, alcohol and gambling without being addicted.

I think people know that banning alcohol didn't work, we have the prohibition era to tell us that, just as we know the war on drugs has been and will continue to be a failure on a grand scale.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:52 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:Drug/alcohol addicts are those who are addicted just as those who are addicted to gambling have lost control, the argument being there are those who use drugs, alcohol and gambling without being addicted.

I think people know that banning alcohol didn't work, we have the prohibition era to tell us that, just as we know the war on drugs has been and will continue to be a failure on a grand scale.

I know all that. I was just continuing on from the previous post tearing apart dsr's pretty stupid interpretation of my attitude. I should have edited instead of making a seperate post.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:57 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I know all that. I was just continuing on from the previous post tearing apart dsr's pretty stupid interpretation of my attitude. I should have edited instead of making a seperate post.

My expressing the obvious wasn't because I thought you were unaware of the obvious, it was more a random vocalization, brought about by alcohol abuse.

At no moment was I trying to belittle your riposte to dsr.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:04 pm

I know. Which is why i didn't swear at you.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:28 pm

Paul Waine wrote:First time I flew to Singapore I was "struck" by the very large (full wall) poster in the arrivals hall: "The penalty of drug dealing is death." It made me nervous - and I've never done anything stonger than alcohol.

The death penalty is wrong, in my view, whatever the crime, whatever the circumstances. I say a little prayer every time I hear of a prisoner on death row in the USA suffering their execution.

You say a prayer for mass murderes or butchers of innocent people ?
As for Singapore there is little crime as the punishments are so severe. Should be more widely adopted.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Portugal decriminalised 15 years ago. I don't recall them falling into the sea.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opin ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They used to have some of the most repressive drug laws in Europe, and now have far fewer users than they did.

Few things in life are as win win as repealing drug laws. The benefits are so big, even many strongly right wing people are onside, as well as a lot of the more enlightened Christian set.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:09 pm

This book (if it links properly) is one of the best on the subject, and it’s nearly fifty years old:

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lib ... cumenu.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:13 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's legal to drink alcohol. There are alcoholics. Do you think I don't care that people become alcoholics and die of alcoholism?

Assuming you don't believe that alcohol should be illegal, do you think it reasonable for me to assume you therefore have a "kill yourself - i should care" attitude to alcohol?

I have no idea whether you care or not about dead alcoholics. But the answer to your second question is that it is not reasonable.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:15 pm

dsr wrote:I have no idea whether you care or not about dead alcoholics. But the answer to your second question is that it is not reasonable.

So if you think it isn't reasonable, why did you then assume i held that attitude about drug users? Hopefully you see how your assumption was pretty unreasonable.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:29 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:So if you think it isn't reasonable, why did you then assume i held that attitude about drug users? Hopefully you see how your assumption was pretty unreasonable.

I think part of the problem was that I didn't realise the same logic applied to alcohol as to crack cocaine.

But just so I know what your position is, because it's hard to wrestle an eel:

Is it your position that all drugs should be made freely available and supplying them should not be a crime? And that you do care about the deaths of drug takers? And that your way will help reduce the problem?

And if that isn't your position, what is your position?

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:31 pm

TsarBomba wrote:Drug dealers are already being killed in their droves in the UK, especially in London. What do you the think the rise in knife/violent crime is over?

There are hundreds if not thousands of young people in the UK, coerced, forced, and manipulated, to deal drugs on the behalf of older gang members and adults, who pull the strings behind the scenes, safe in the knowledge it’s not them out on the streets taking the risk.

I work in London, and I see the damage drugs does to society every single day. I see people killing each other over drug patches, and I see the impact on families and love ones who have to pick up the pieces.

Those often caught dealing are kids, from broken homes, with parents that don’t give a **** and have paid zero interest in their upbringing. They haven’t had a chance in life. Sure, there needs to be punishment, but there has to be education too, or else it’s an endless cycle of violence and a conveyor belt of young impressionable kids being taken advantage of.

don't patronise, I live in the north, and also encountered first hand the issues you recognise in london. My opinion hasn't changed one iota.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:02 am

Blackrod wrote:You say a prayer for mass murderes or butchers of innocent people ?
As for Singapore there is little crime as the punishments are so severe. Should be more widely adopted.

Hi Blackrod, yes, I say a prayer for their souls - and I say a prayer that we will have more civilised nations that do not execute their citizens following judicial processes. I don't differentiate between the people who are unjustly convicted and those who have clearly committed the crimes they are convicted of, including, to use your words, "mass murderers or butchers of innocent people." I don't believe that "an eye for an eye" is just or makes for a better world.

Of course, I cry and pray more for the innocent victims of the "mad men with guns" and all the other violent people.

I love Singapore. I've spent several weeks there every year from 2007 through to 2015 after first visiting in 1996/7. Yes, the laws are strict and I would prefer more compassion in their treatment of law breakers.

I also enjoy visiting USA. I'd prefer that their gun laws were very different. I'd prefer that they didn't have capital punishment. But, there's still some great places to visit - and I'm booked to go again later this year.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:09 am

When I see these "ghosts", crack-heads mainly, walking our streets I think the death penalty should be applied to anyone caught dealing this filth. It's only the fear of death that will deter these arseholes from dealing.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 am

boatshed bill wrote:When I see these "ghosts", crack-heads mainly, walking our streets I think the death penalty should be applied to anyone caught dealing this filth. It's only the fear of death that will deter these arseholes from dealing.

Lol. yeah. because of all types of criminals it's drug dealers that fear death the most.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:17 am

dsr wrote:I think part of the problem was that I didn't realise the same logic applied to alcohol as to crack cocaine.

But just so I know what your position is, because it's hard to wrestle an eel:

Is it your position that all drugs should be made freely available and supplying them should not be a crime? And that you do care about the deaths of drug takers? And that your way will help reduce the problem?

And if that isn't your position, what is your position?

I care as much about the deaths of drug takers as i do for the deaths of alcoholics.

No, i don't think supplying drugs should eb a crime. I think they should be sold and regulated the same way alcohol and tobacco are regulated and sold. Two things that kill many, many times more people than drugs.

And of course the same logic applies. Why wouldn't it?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:24 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:And of course the same logic applies. Why wouldn't it?

It's a matter of degree of danger. Even in alcohol, they have different laws depending on how dangerous the drink is supposed to be; there's no reason IMO why crack cocaine and snuff should be treated the same way, just because both have the power to kill.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:03 am

dsr wrote:I think part of the problem was that I didn't realise the same logic applied to alcohol as to crack cocaine.

But just so I know what your position is, because it's hard to wrestle an eel:

Is it your position that all drugs should be made freely available and supplying them should not be a crime? And that you do care about the deaths of drug takers? And that your way will help reduce the problem?

And if that isn't your position, what is your position?

I know your question wasn't put to me, but I would like to answer it from my point of view.

The first step of new drug laws should be about harm reduction. A big element of that will be to take it out of the black market, and the best way to do that is ensure a clean, safe, and affordable supply.

The madness in our current laws is they allow dealers to make lots of money, and leave the rest of us to pay the bills.

You could wipe out the illegal heroin trade in a short time just by allowing doctors to prescribe it to addicts. No addict will continue paying grossly high prices for dodgy heroin when they can get it cleanly from their doctors for nothing. Nobody would buy home made insulin in today's climate, for example. But more importantly, heroin addicts would be able to get on with their lives, rather than spending 90% of their time doing whatever they can (stealing from you) to be able to afford their next fix. The cost of policing, courts, healthcare would go down, and (perhaps more importantly) your feeling of wellbeing from reduced insurance premiums, and being less likely to be robbed. The whole illegal business of heroin would die, because as soon as they peddle their wares to new users, they'll lose the business to the NHS. It would simply stop coming into the country illegally. Heroin wouldn't be something someone could just go out and freely buy, but if they were addicted to it, they could get it for nothing. Nobody chooses soberly to become a heroin addict, but it's something someone sells to them when they're vulnerable in order to make money. When the sellers can no longer make money you won't have any more people joining the queue.

I would take the same approach to tobacco. Make it available freely on the NHS, and no longer sell it otherwise. I'm a smoker, but I'll be the first to say what a stupid and pointless thing it is. If people can't go out and buy cigarettes, then far fewer will start smoking, and the closer we get to a smoke free nation the better we'll all be.

With drugs like marijuana, I think an approach like that we currently have with alcohol would be enough. You don't buy alcohol from street gangs. But just as we allow people to brew their own beer and wine, we should allow people to grow (reasonably) their own weed.

For chemical drugs, such as ecstasy, MDMA, and LSD - things like this have to be made properly in a laboratory - sold with all of the right safety and health warnings, and perhaps the onus on the pharmacy to do some basic checks. Being legal, it won't be a case of one person buying a lot for all their friends.

You mentioned crack cocaine, and I think that's a good example of a hard to deal with drug. If cocaine were available, could we transition those who love crack onto that? Or have a few crack addicts? Either way, better than what we have now, which is a free for all.

As for all the newly created drugs, they're a reaction to the current drugs policy. Try to find a way around the current drug laws by creating a 'legal' alternative, so I can imagine them dying off if we decriminalise drugs. It will also give us the control to make drugs less harmful.

The evidence is that a health based approach to drugs is far better than a criminal one. That, I hope answers your original question.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:16 am

Sorry but I have to laugh to the point of wetting my trousers at the thought of Heroin being given free to smack heads by doctors in this country.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:41 am

What is your better idea?