Nixon says Heaton might go

Ric_C · Post by **Ric_C** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:30 pm

Tricky one, but for the short term of next season, I'm sure both are very keen to stay and fight for their place and keep developing. We have no need to sell either, and I don't for one moment think that either would want away.

Pope - Still developing, and learning a lot from Mercer and Tom. Even if No 2 next season, will still get 10-15 game maybe?

Heaton - Why leave? He loves it here, he must be well aware he needs to be careful with that shoulder, and doing it again will mean another 4-5 months out. Will probably be our No 1 next season, but if Pope starts, I don't see him as spitting his dummy out.

Both must realise (and I think they do), that being a goalie in this team leaves them in a good position in terms of possible international call-ups.

As for Burnley, it would be suicide to sell either, as we need 2 quality keepers, and one is another injury away from being out for the season again.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:41 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Pope is still young enough to improve.

The thing that people overlook is so is Heaton!

No reason he can't continue to improve over the next few seasons. 32 is a good age for a keeper. Especially with how fit our players are!

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:43 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:The thing that people overlook is so is Heaton!

No reason he can't continue to improve over the next few seasons. 32 is a good age for a keeper. Especially with how fit our players are!

Yeah I know that, my comment was about his perceived failings by someone else.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:45 pm

If someone can't kick in a straight line by the time they're 26, they're a lost cause.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:47 pm

Even if he does everything else well?

Ok, that's good to know.

Is it to late to rip up his contract and bin him off?

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:51 pm

Firstly, this is a wonderful problem to have - which of two exceptional keepers to keep.

I think this boils down to two things, and neither of them is actually about how good a keeper they are. They're both plenty good enough.

But the first big factor is about dressing room influence. We all know how big a factor Heaton is off the field. That's a massive thing and irrespective of how well Pope has replaced Heaton on the pitch, its virtually impossible for him to replace him off it as well. I believe keeping the players who have established our ethos is absolutely pivotal to us ensuring we develop without losing our identity. That's why I think that overall, Heaton would be a much bigger loss overall than Pope - even if Pope might have the potential to be a better keeper in a couple of years time.

But this assumes that Heaton is able to recapture the form that made him such a terrific keeper after his shoulder injury, and that he's not likely to suffer recurrences of the problem in the future. The medical team may have a good idea of that, but I suspect that they won't know for sure until he's played a bit of first team football.

So I hope we can defer the decision. If Heaton can recapture his form in the early part of next season and his shoulder is strong and healthy, I'd let Pope go - but not until early 2019. If Heaton can't recapture is form, then with a heavy heart I'd let him go if he's not willing to fight for his place.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:19 pm

As good as Pope has been (and he's been brilliant) before his injury Heaton was the better keeper for me. Some of the saves he has made in the last year or so are right up there with the best saves you have seen from any keeper in the Premier League for many years (Southampton and Old Trafford last season). If he would have played this year like he did last season for me there is no doubt he'd be the established England no 1 when you look at the form of the other keepers in contention.

As for Pope I think he actually commands his area better than Tom - primarily because of his height. There have been many games this season when we have been hanging on for a win or draw at the end and the opposition has launched it into the box and Pope has come out to claim a ball that many times Tom would need to punch (most keepers in the league would try and punch actually).

As for Pope`s distribution it is not as good as Tom`s but nowhere near as bad as some people on here make out. First and foremost a keeper should be judged on how many goals he costs his team with poor distribution. I can`t remember one goal Pope has cost us and he has had a hell of a lot of balls passed back to him under pressure on either foot which he has managed to get clear away. Clearly if you can distribute a ball like Ederson at Man City then this is a massive bonus. Pickford is very good at distributing the ball aswell (not great at coming off his line though !!). Many keepers in this league have given away goals this season from poor kicks.

I think we should keep hold of both keepers for as long as we can and until we know whether Tom has fully recovered. If he has then I would sell Pope if we had to...we will make a very decent profit and we can then go looking for another back up keeper. As already said Tom is our captain and he is a big part of our success. He's a great ambassador for the club and young enough to give us plenty more years of service.

Its a very nice problem to have - 2 England quality keepers. One that was a free transfer and one that cost us £1.5m. I doubt you could find any other club in Europe who had achieved that in the last few years !!

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:32 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:If someone can't kick in a straight line by the time they're 26, they're a lost cause.

You mean like Petr Cech ?
Aye send him to the gallows.

Nick Pope can kick it straight - he just does not do it all the time. Absolutely no reason why he cannot improve on his consistency.

Bravo at Man City was great at kicking it straight - one of the best in Europe apparently. Pity he could not save anything with his hands and that he kept on kicking it straight to the opposition !!

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:36 pm

I agree with most of what you say TVC15, but I'd prefer to go the other route - if push came to shove, sell Heaton and have a backup to Pope. I think we're now entering the time when we no longer have to think of money first, all the time. Instead, we're trying to now move even further forward and be an established Premier League side and keep our best players. Ideally, and obviously, it would be superb if we can keep both, but Pope is the one who could play for us for 2-3 more seasons, and then if he wants to leave, bring in the big money, whilst developing a backup keeper.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:44 pm

It's an interesting problem to have. We've seen with the likes of Shackell and Keane that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. This is no different for Heaton and Pope. They are offered a great level of protection because of the framework SD has instilled into his team. If they moved onto a club that offers less protection then there's every chance they could struggle in the same way as Keane this season.

The big question is wages. I suspect Heaton is one of our top earners so I can't see us offering Pope a contract on the same sort of salary. At the end of the day we could probably sell Pope for £20m+ in the current market and that's a hell of a lot of money for a relatively inexperienced keeper (certainly at the top level). Even with our new found wealth I don't think we'd be in a position to turn down money like that.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:52 pm

It's a decision I wouldn't want to make, either way. More power to Sir Dyche on solving this one.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:17 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I agree with most of what you say TVC15, but I'd prefer to go the other route - if push came to shove, sell Heaton and have a backup to Pope. I think we're now entering the time when we no longer have to think of money first, all the time. Instead, we're trying to now move even further forward and be an established Premier League side and keep our best players. Ideally, and obviously, it would be superb if we can keep both, but Pope is the one who could play for us for 2-3 more seasons, and then if he wants to leave, bring in the big money, whilst developing a backup keeper.

Not sure I follow why Pope is the only one who could play for 2-3 more seasons. Heaton is 31, nearly 32, which is bang in prime for a goalkeeper. He's got 3-4 years in him if he's fully fit and healthy - the big question is exactly that, how much long term structural damage he's done to his shoulder. Truth is given you can only ever look about 3 years ahead these days - that's the length of the cycle - age isn't a factor in which keeper we keep.

We don't need to chase the money, and the longer we can keep Heaton, who is such an important figure off the pitch, the better. if it means Pope goes, then that's life. if we lose a few million by keeping him this summer and selling him after he's spent the first 5 months of next season on the bench, then so be it. Of course, if his game comes on leaps and bounds so that the case for him over Heaton becomes impossible to ignore, then then that's a different matter, but that's not the scenario we're currently dealing with.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:39 pm

FactualFrank wrote:we no longer have to think of money first

claretspice wrote:We don't need to chase the money

You're taking every opportunity to disagree with me and at the same time saying things that I've already said.

Give me a break.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:49 pm

FactualFrank wrote:You're taking every opportunity to disagree with me and at the same time saying things that I've already said.

Give me a break.

I think I was agreeing with you on the quoted you've highlighted. The only thing I'm disagreeing with you on is the suggestion we should keep Pope on the basis he's the one with 2-3 seasons in him.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:54 pm

That doesn't make any sense. You put "and the longer we can keep Heaton, who is such an important figure off the pitch, the better" - agreeing with me and following it up with that just doesn't follow. If you read it again, it's clear that that the whole paragraph was disagreeing with me, mixed with backing up how you disagreed with me.

Down to opinions of course, and we're in such a good position that it's good to have a differing of opinions. It's not every day you have 2 England quality keepers in the same side.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:58 pm

Why do I always read the subject as being "Nixon says Heaton might go to the World Cup?"

UTC

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:05 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Why do I always read the subject as being "Nixon says Heaton might go to the World Cup?"

UTC

Quick edit?

Claret Till I Die · Post by **Claret Till I Die** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:26 pm

FactualFrank wrote:You're taking every opportunity to disagree with me and at the same time saying things that I've already said.

Give me a break.

No he doesn't....

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:27 pm

Claret Till I Die wrote:No he doesn't....

Ahh... now I get it. We seem to know some of the same people. And it's isn't - not doesn't.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:43 pm

FactualFrank wrote:If you read it again, it's clear that that the whole paragraph was disagreeing with me, mixed with backing up how you disagreed

It really wasn't and I think you're taking this rather too personally. Apart from querying the logic of your suggestion Pope not Heaton has 2-3 years in him, I wasn't particularly addressing your post in anything else I said. I'm sorry if you thought otherwise but I'm not sure it matters hugely either way. As you say it's a question of opinion.

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