384 million extra a week for NHS after Brexit.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:53 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Those successive governments were also funded by the kind of people they'd be clamping down on. That's a much bigger problem in our "democracy" than people think. Elections and election campaigns should be publicly funded, but instead our parties have to pander to the rich so that they can fund their elections, and the rich aren't going to fund them without getting anything in return.

Fair point but I don't see that changing to the extent that we'd see a dramatic reduction in the £34b figure.

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:55 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:No.

Are You?

no, nor do i pretend to.

i think i pretty much said that in the last sentence of my last post.

wipe the foam from your mouth and pay attention boy.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:57 pm

More to add to the list of people who say there is no Brexit dividend and this is going to be a tax rise.

Nigel Farage
Alex Wickham

So that is everyone who isn't Theresa May and the Brexit wing of the Conservative Party. What a time to be alive.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:59 pm

taio wrote:Fair point but I don't see that changing to the extent that we'd see a dramatic reduction in the £34b figure.

Nor do i unless either we have publicly funded elections, or electoral reform to get us away from this ridiculous two-party electoral system that means we only ever get one neo-liberal government, or another slightly less neo-liberal government. We won't have a real democracy until we either get private money out of politics, or until we make every vote count equally.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:01 pm

yTib wrote:no, nor do i pretend to.

i think i pretty much said that in the last sentence of my last post.

wipe the foam from your mouth and pay attention boy.

Hahaha.

Straight forward question. Leaving the potential for a never ending argument of whether economically the UK will benefit economically from brexit and securing independent trade deals with the 85% of global GDP, that's not the EU, to one side.

If you stop paying in, will you have more money to spend as a consequence? Yes or no.? In a word.....

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:03 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Hahaha.

Straight forward question. Leaving the potential for a never ending argument of whether economically the UK will benefit economically from brexit and securing independent trade deals with the 85% of global GDP, that's not the EU, to one side.

If you stop paying in, will you have more money to spend as a consequence? Yes or no.? In a word.....

The simple answer is we don't yet know.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:03 pm

Two years of this.

If anyone wants to try to explain to Ringo (again) that if you take back £150 million but lose £250 million in trade then its not a dividend, feel free.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:03 pm

taio wrote:The simple answer is we don't yet know.

Why?

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:04 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Why?

See Lancaster's post.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:04 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Hahaha.

Straight forward question. Leaving the potential for a never ending argument of whether economically the UK will benefit economically from brexit and securing independent trade deals with the 85% of global GDP, that's not the EU, to one side.

If you stop paying in, will you have more money to spend as a consequence? Yes or no.? In a word.....

So you want to exclude the consequences of not paying-in in any answer to the question "will you have more money to spend as a consequence?"
I see a flaw in your thinking.

That's like asking - Ignoring the consequences of your quitting your job, will you have more free time to enjoy your wages if you quit your job? Yes or no? In a word...

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:05 pm

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:06 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Two years of this.

If anyone wants to try to explain to Ringo (again) that if you take back £150 million but lose £250 million in trade then its not a dividend, feel free.

This 250 million loss? According to who?

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:06 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Hahaha.

If you stop paying in, will you have more money to spend as a consequence? Yes or no.? In a word.....

you honestly believe it is that simple and you accuse me of naivety.

gosh.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:06 pm

I thought it was a breath of fresh air, but as I said in the post which I already stated, economic suicide with Brexit.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:08 pm

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:08 pm

yTib wrote:you honestly believe it is that simple and you accuse me of naivety.

gosh.

I said leaving the economics to one side. Because it's crystal ball stuff.

Will you have more money to spend? Yes or no?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:09 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I thought it was a breath of fresh air, but as I said in the post which I already stated, economic suicide with Brexit.

The 250 mill loss , lancs, source?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:09 pm

If it be your will wrote:People say 'genuine question' when they don't mean it. But this really is one: did you not consider the Labour manifesto a decisive break from neoliberalism, then?

No. Labour didn't win. And even if they had it wouldn't be with enough left-wing MPs to get most of what I supported enacted. If someone like David Miliband had pushed that manifesto if he ever becomes leader then perhaps it has a chance. But not with Corbyn. And Miliband would never have that manifesto.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:10 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:This 250 million loss? According to who?

It's an example, to try and help you understand. You dumb ******.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:10 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:This 250 million loss? According to who?

Why go round and round in circles? People who voted leave will think Brexit will benefit the economy. People who votes to remain will think the opposite. I was the latter but it wasn't clear cut for me personally and I respect the decision of those who voted for Brexit - most people I know did. But nobody knows at this time

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:11 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's an example, you dumb ******.

Of what? An example of what exactly?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:12 pm

taio wrote:Why go round and round in circles? People who voted leave will think Brexit will benefit the economy. ...

They don't though. That's the thing. They pretended it would, and then when it became clear that it wouldn't they shifted to: ah, but it'll be worth it because we'll be Taking Our Country Back™

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:12 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's an example, to try and help you understand. You dumb ******.

Of what? An example of what exactly?

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:13 pm

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:13 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Of what? An example of what exactly?

If you stop giving 5 apples to someone who gives you 10 apples in return, that's not a profit.

Does that help you understand? No. Didn't think so.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:16 pm

Guys, we've reached peak Brexit

Ringo has asked me for a source. Ringo.

FYI, I'm taking the money we actually get back from the EU (not £350 million) and then subtracting an average of the loss of income coming into UK coffers after Brexit (using UK govt information) and simplifying it.

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:17 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I said leaving the economics to one side. Because it's crystal ball stuff.

Will you have more money to spend? Yes or no?

do you know the definition of investment?

can you measure how much it will cost if a business like land rover moves its operation abroad?

it's like teaching a monkey to speak french.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:18 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:If you stop giving 5 apples to someone who gives you 10 apples in return, that's not a profit.

Does that help you understand? No. Didn't think so.

It's an example of a random figure being plucked out of the air! That's what it is.

And your analogy with the apples completely flies in the face of reality, when it comes to the financial relationship the UK has with the EU. We are NET CONTRIBUTORS, you idiot.

It's less of an analogy and much more closer to being anal.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:20 pm

I'm now explaining basic economics to my cat, with noticeably more success.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:23 pm

yTib wrote:do you know the definition of investment?

can you measure how much it will cost if a business like land rover moves its operation abroad?

it's like teaching a monkey to speak french.

The key word in that post if "IF" a business.....

So have businesses never moved manufacturing out of the UK, while we've been IN the EU!!!!!!???? Ford transit springs to mind. That cos of brexit was It!!!!!?

What IF other businesses chose to move to the UK.

Stop choosing to cloud the waters in order to avoid the yes or no answer.

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:26 pm

your question does not merit a yes or no answer.

i have tried to give you answers why but you are too narrow minded to understand.

if i have a billion pounds and i spend a billion pounds on beer then i have lost a billion pounds.

if i spend it on better schools and infrastructure that is called an investment.

this is basic economics so even you can understand.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:30 pm

The entire remain argument is based on IF, its a purely economic argument focusing solely on the idea that everything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:33 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm now explaining basic economics to my cat, with noticeably more success.

I bet your cat has a better understanding of what being a net contributor means!

I'm off out now for a fathers day treat. Seeing as I'll be paying for the grub I'll be making my own personal net contribution to the restaurants financies. If I didn't I'd have saved a few quid. See! That's how it works. You don't chip in, you have more to spend.

Toodle pip my , if brains were a profit and loss account you'd be showing a minus figure, Remoaner friends.

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:33 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The entire remain argument is based on IF, its a purely economic argument focusing solely on the idea that everything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

surely that applies to both arguments?

and surely 'if' is the very best word to suggest uncertainty.

and surely 'uncertainty' is not a positive thing.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:34 pm

yTib wrote:your question does not merit a yes or no answer.

i have tried to give you answers why but you are too narrow minded to understand.

if i have a billion pounds and i spend a billion pounds on beer then i have lost a billion pounds.

if i spend it on better schools and infrastructure that is called an investment.

this is basic economics so even you can understand.

If If If If If If If ..........

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:34 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The entire remain argument is based on IF, its a purely economic argument focusing solely on the idea that everything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

Whereas the Leave argument is "no it won't, and here's no evidence to support my opinion. And if it does then so what?"

and

"experts disagree with me? Oh, then i think we've had enough of listening to experts"

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:34 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The entire remain argument is based on IF, its a purely economic argument focusing solely on the idea that everything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

I voted remain based on exactly that - that on balance i thought Brexit would have a detrimental impact on the UK economy. But i know i could be wrong and hope i am.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:35 pm

yTib wrote:your question does not merit a yes or no answer.

i have tried to give you answers why but you are too narrow minded to understand.

if i have a billion pounds and i spend a billion pounds on beer then i have lost a billion pounds.

if i spend it on better schools and infrastructure that is called an investment.

this is basic economics so even you can understand.

If If If If If If If ..........

I assume you've got 2 balls.

I'll guarantee that neither of them are Crystal!!!

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:35 pm

toodle pip ringo.

how it must be to have such a black and white, childlike viewpoint on big-boy subjects.

happy trails x

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:35 pm

yTib wrote:toodle pip ringo.

how it must be to have such a black and white, childlike viewpoint on big-boy subjects.

happy trails x

You can't win an argument with an idiot.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:37 pm

Wait....

There was a referendum to leave the EU?

cblantfanclub · Post by **cblantfanclub** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:37 pm

Theresa May refuses to say which taxes will rise to pay for £20bn NHS boost
Tory chair of the Commons Health Committee attacks 'rubbish that this will be some Brexit bonanza', saying: ‘In reality, tax rises and borrowing will need to be higher’

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:39 pm

If Ringo doesn't have "school of life" on his facebook page I'm chucking all this in.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:43 pm

cblantfanclub wrote:Theresa May refuses to say which taxes will rise to pay for £20bn NHS boost
Tory chair of the Commons Health Committee attacks 'rubbish that this will be some Brexit bonanza', saying: ‘In reality, tax rises and borrowing will need to be higher’

I think she's testing to see just how gullible we are.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:59 pm

So the times article states May has a plan to train more nurses. How?

She’s removed bursaries and nurses now pay 9k a year to train

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:08 pm

Inchy wrote:So the times article states May has a plan to train more nurses. How?

She’s removed bursaries and nurses now pay 9k a year to train

Good point. I support some level of tuition fees generally rather than free but a mistake by the government on scrapping of burseries for people wanting a nursing career.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:18 pm

Any extra money into the NHS has to be a good thing. Hopefully it will end up on drugs and patient care instead of pen pushers.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:41 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
I'm off out now for a fathers day treat.

I bet a Euro that he's going to Wetherspoons.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:50 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:More to add to the list of people who say there is no Brexit dividend and this is going to be a tax rise.

Nigel Farage
Alex Wickham

So that is everyone who isn't Theresa May and the Brexit wing of the Conservative Party. What a time to be alive.

You have always been a follower of Farage?
Or is this the 1st time your acknowledging him as a human.