The Independent

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:51 am

Apparently, wage rises are now a bad thing (because Brexit)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 89366.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think they may just have an agenda.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:55 am

You'll have to point out where The independent says wage rises are a bad thing.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:59 am

The very first paragraph is a negative, blamed on restricted EU immigration.

Lordlucan · Post by **Lordlucan** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:02 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The very first paragraph is a negative, blamed on restricted EU immigration.

It could just be that they are reporting that companies are reporting a skills shortage?

I presume you are also of the view that the BFC chairman has an anti Brexit agenda?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:05 am

I asked you to point out where The Independent says wage rises are a bad thing.

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The very first paragraph is a negative, blamed on restricted EU immigration.

This is the first paragraph:

"Many UK firms are finding it more difficult to recruit the staff they need after a fall in net migration from the EU, a new report has said."

Would you like to try again?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:12 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:I asked you to point out where The Independent says wage rises are a bad thing.

This is the first paragraph:

"Many UK firms are finding it more difficult to recruit the staff they need after a fall in net migration from the EU, a new report has said."

Would you like to try again?

Since when do the left prioritise the plights of businesses above that of ordinary working people? They clearly made that the focus of this story.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:24 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Since when do the left prioritise the plights of businesses above that of ordinary working people? They clearly made that the focus of this story.

You're making hard work of this. Maybe you should have just gone with "The Independent Whinges About Brexit Again" instead of making something up.

Edit: Just seen the subject title has now changed. Nice work.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:25 am

I think ClaretMoffitt might just have an agenda

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:27 am

I think Moffitt’s been triggered.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:31 am

Highly triggered by my wage rising, yes

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:35 am

Another fail.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:38 am

It's what Michael rose, the former Chairman of Marks and Spencer, predicted.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsto ... -says.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's one of the few predictions that Remain actually got right!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:41 am

Imagine the likes of the exploitative Mike Ashley realising he has to pay more to his already beleaguered work force!

"Fa**in ell, I'm ganna ave to piey the lazy baarrrsterds mowah nah! An I ! Fakkin Brexit."

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:45 am

Hilarious, that.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:50 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Imagine the likes of the exploitative Mike Ashley realising he has to pay more to his already beleaguered work force!

"Fa**in ell, I'm ganna ave to piey the lazy baarrrsterds mowah nah! An I ! Fakkin Brexit."

You do realise that, whilst Mike Ashley might own Newcastle United, he’s from Buckinghamshire and won’t speak with a Geordie Accent?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:50 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:Hilarious, that.

Any thing that upsets the fat, latter day, master sweep is amusing, I agree.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:53 am

I doubt he's reading this and I doubt any wage increases he chooses to dish out or not will cause him any upset.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:57 am

Lord Beamish wrote:You do realise that, whilst Mike Ashley might own Newcastle United, he’s from Buckinghamshire and won’t speak with a Geordie Accent?

Yes. It's difficult to show an accent in text. But if you were to have a second glance I elongated the vowel sounds in "baaarrrsterd" and other similar attempts on other words. If I failed fair enough.

Interesting that you'd prefer to nitpick at an attempt of humour at the expense of an digracefull , so called employer. Who's employees are giving birth in toilets, rather than take time off. Than perhaps agree that the likes of him should no longer be able to make their ill-gotten millions by using human beings as profit fodder.

Like I say, interesting......

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:00 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:I doubt he's reading this and I doubt any wage increases he chooses to dish out or not will cause him any upset.

Spoken like the blubbery, master sweeps lackey!

Mike Ashleys wannabe manservant!

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:04 am

Eh ?
Are you OK ?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:09 am

"Leave the good master Ashley alone. He's a good honest and kind man and no amount of criticism of the way he runs his business and what he pays his slaves, err workers. Will change his mind! Says lackey Eddie Ben Dover

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:12 am

Wow - I hope whatever you're on eases off before the game, Ringo, you'll be lucky if they let you in if not.

I'll humour you just this once.
You reckon Mike Ashley reads this board ?
You reckon Mike Ashley will give a flying wotsit about paying his workers a few bob more ?
As I said, wow.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:16 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Yes. It's difficult to show an accent in text. But if you were to have a second glance I elongated the vowel sounds in "baaarrrsterd" and other similar attempts on other words. If I failed fair enough.

Interesting that you'd prefer to nitpick at an attempt of humour at the expense of an digracefull , so called employer. Who's employees are giving birth in toilets, rather than take time off. Than perhaps agree that the likes of him should no longer be able to make their ill-gotten millions by using human beings as profit fodder.

Like I say, interesting......

You fail on most things, Wrongo.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:21 am

Lord Beamish wrote:You fail on most things, Wrongo.

I don't fail to condemn exploitation of workers and the **** that exploit them.

You?.......

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:23 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:Wow - I hope whatever you're on eases off before the game, Ringo, you'll be lucky if they let you in if not.

You reckon Mike Ashley reads this board ?.

No.

But his man servant Phil Mcavity appears to!

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:23 am

I swear to God the lad's on something. A pathetic attempt at humour, an amazing about-turn regarding politics - it's now the poor, downtrodden workers v the evil boss - and there are so many mistakes in his punctuation and grammar that his "offering" becomes even more laughable.
I'd take a couple of hours off, Ringo.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:24 am

Haha it's the grammar and punctuation card. And when that's produced it's game over!

Off our for the day now ladies. Got some far more enjoyable things to do.

Have a super day backing latter master sweeps!

Toodle pip.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:26 am

I've always imagined Ringo to look very similar to Mike Ashley, a rather rotund chap who people generally try to avoid.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:26 am

I rest my case, m'lud.
Next !

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:28 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Haha it's the grammar and punctuation card. And when that's produced it's game over!

Off our for the day now ladies. Got some far more enjoyable things to do.

Have a super day backing latter master sweeps!

Toodle pip.

I rest my case, m'lud.
Next !

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:28 am

ksrclaret wrote:I've always imagined Ringo to look very similar to Mike Ashley, a rather rotund chap who people generally try to avoid.

You couldn't be more wrong pal.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:30 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:I rest my case, m'lud.
Next !

If only you'd had one in the first place Mr Dover!

Mind how you go.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:34 am

Being more wrong isn't possible, Ringo. You're either wrong or not.
I thought you were "off our" for the day ?
I point out your basic errors, by the way, merely to highlight your ignorance. Your weird meltdown requires no highlighting, it speaks for itself.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:38 am

Back on topic though, will those of you who said I was an idiot for thinking Brexit would result in lower immigration and rises in wages, please stand up?

I'll sit here waiting patiently until the first articles about housing demand reducing start to appear as well.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:38 am

So because of a skills shortage brought about by Brexit, wages in these areas (particularly low paid jobs) are likely to increase. Surely this is a positive effect. How about we debate that point.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:41 am

Chobulous wrote:So because of a skills shortage brought about by Brexit, wages in these areas (particularly low paid jobs) are likely to increase. Surely this is a positive effect. How about we debate that point.

Because the cause is a politically inconvenience therefore its better to twist it into a negative.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:41 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:I don't fail to condemn exploitation of workers and the **** that exploit them.

You?.......

I’d consider that to be axiomatic. Not some gambit to be used in some kind of scramble to the top of some perceived moral high ground in an internet discussion, Wrongo.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:50 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:You couldn't be more wrong pal.

Would be a fitting epitaph for your gravestone

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:41 am

Lord Beamish wrote:You do realise that, whilst Mike Ashley might own Newcastle United, he’s from Buckinghamshire and won’t speak with a Geordie Accent?

It was an attempt at Geordie? I read it as sounding more cockney..especially when i saw "fakkin"

Reading it again i am amazed Mike Ashley can run a business because he must have communication issues

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:46 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Apparently, wage rises are now a bad thing (because Brexit)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 89366.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think they may just have an agenda.

Where in that article does it suggest wage growth is a bad thing? I'm more than happy to join you in shitting on the Independent but not if you're just imagining things.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:52 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Where in that article does it suggest wage growth is a bad thing? I'm more than happy to join you in shitting on the Independent but not if you're just imagining things.

I think you have to look at its target demographic to answer that one. If you imagine that the article is targeted at business owners, then to them wages being forced up is a bad thing. In fact using the term "forced up" you could argue is implying a negative effect.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:54 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Back on topic though, will those of you who said I was an idiot for thinking Brexit would result in lower immigration and rises in wages, please stand up?
.

I presume you mean lower immigration from the EU? (I don't think that anyone has disputed that).
Rises in wages are fine so long as a) You still have a job and b) Prices don't rise by more than wages, (and there are other factors to take into account too).

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:55 am

Chobulous wrote:I think you have to look at its target demographic to answer that one. If you imagine that the article is targeted at business owners, then to them wages being forced up is a bad thing. In fact using the term "forced up" you could argue is implying a negative effect.

I noticed that too. Still nothing to say/suggest rising wages is a negative, except, as you say, if you put yourself in the position of a business owner. But that's not the Independent making it a negative.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:55 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Back on topic though, will those of you who said I was an idiot for thinking Brexit would result in lower immigration and rises in wages, please stand up?

Post some examples.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:44 pm

You misunderstand, CM, you were called an idiot for many reasons.
"Rises in wages " All or some ?
Are skills shortages a positive thing ? The consruction industry, for one, would probably argue otherwise.
Anyway, I'm setting off for a leisurely - probably very leisurely - drive up the M6 for the match now. Might see you there !
UTC

John Gayles Shoulder · Post by **John Gayles Shoulder** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:51 pm

From a business perspective, if you have fewer people willing/able to do the job, your options are to have fewer staff doing more work or pay more money when perhaps you are only just managing anyway.

Plus, most EU migrants are doing essential jobs that the British nationals either see as beneath them (e.g. seasonal fruit picking) or don't want to do (e.g. nursing). There is no rush of British people wanting to fill these positions and not getting migrant staff in to fill these roles is going to have a massive negative effect on our society - a direct result of Brexit

Look at TRANSPORT SECRETARY Chris Grayling recently. He didn't have a clue that in the event of a no deal Brexit, haulage companies are going to have no capability to deal with Europe. He had to be told by the boss of a haulage firm that this was the case and that they are already losing contracts as they can't guarantee delivery of them beyond March 2019. How the hell is he going to act in the best interests of the country when he is another one in charge without a slight clue of how we proceed?

People need to stop parroting 'will of the people' ******** without actually offering construtive solution. The reason Rees-Mogg, BoJo, Farage, et al keep saying this is because they no there is currently no logical solution (Irish border for example), but people lap it up and they look good. These gits will make money whatever the situation (Rees Mogg already trading via Dublin so his income not affected by leaving the EU for example) and yet unbelievably, people love them for looking out for the interests of the common man. Don't make me laugh

Irrespective of your preference for Brexit, the delivery of it has been an utter utter shambles and ploughing on regardless, despite increasing numbers of experts in various fields saying it can't be done to our benefit, is genuinely moronic at this stage.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:16 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:You misunderstand, CM, you were called an idiot for many reasons.
"Rises in wages " All or some ?
Are skills shortages a positive thing ? The consruction industry, for one, would probably argue otherwise.
Anyway, I'm setting off for a leisurely - probably very leisurely - drive up the M6 for the match now. Might see you there !
UTC

Miners before, CFS during, The Turf/Dyche after

Feel free to buy me a pint

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:32 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I noticed that too. Still nothing to say/suggest rising wages is a negative, except, as you say, if you put yourself in the position of a business owner. But that's not the Independent making it a negative.

The entire article has a negative tone.

The headline itself focuses on the skills shortage rather than the rise of pay for workers, and the article follow suit to that tone.

Everyone knows the neo-liberals primary concern is to over-saturate a country with people, increasing demand for goods and services whilst making employment competition extremely high (so they can pay everyone crap and give nobody benefits).

The right and left should be united on this issue but for some reason the left have chosen to side with big business and the neo-libs.

John Gayles Shoulder · Post by **John Gayles Shoulder** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:46 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The entire article has a negative tone.

The headline itself focuses on the skills shortage rather than the rise of pay for workers, and the article follow suit to that tone.

Everyone knows the neo-liberals primary concern is to over-saturate a country with people, increasing demand for goods and services whilst making employment competition extremely high (so they can pay everyone crap and give nobody benefits).

The right and left should be united on this issue but for some reason the left have chosen to side with big business and the neo-libs.

You are siding with people such as Arron Banks, Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Liam Fox, Jacob Rees-Mogg, etc

Irrespective of what the debate is about, agreeing with this disgusting bunch of self interested populists leaves you in no fit position to lecture others on who they side with

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:52 pm

John Gayles Shoulder wrote:You are siding with people such as Arron Banks, Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Liam Fox, Jacob Rees-Mogg, etc

Irrespective of what the debate is about, agreeing with this disgusting bunch of self interested populists leaves you in no fit position to lecture others on who they side with

"Those mentioned persons are in favour of breathing, therefore as a matter of virtue I shall not breathe"