Tusk wants us to take the Canada deal

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:20 pm

To be honest, so do I.

Obviously the hardcore Eurolovers won't be happy because they want this country to assimilate into a blue and yellow nothingness but for the many who are simply concerned about the economic implications, this would be a big reassurance. It also delivers on most the key factors that leave voters wanted.

But of course May has come out and totally dismissed it.

One question, why?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 53731.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:23 pm

Has she actually come out since that and rejected it?

She should accept it, a solution can be found over the Irish border issue I’m sure.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:24 pm

She's a remoaner...

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:25 pm

Maybe she wants the negotiations to fail then she is ‘forced’ to go back to the country when she has a chance of getting what she wanted all along!!

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:25 pm

Because she's the Prime Minister, the leader of the party you, I assume, voted for.
You won, get over it.
Seriously, though, another thread on this issue will reveal nothing more than the countless others on this board : some like Brexit, some think Brexit stinks and others are resigned to waiting to see what happens.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:26 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Because she's the Prime Minister, the leader of the party you, I assume, voted for.
You won, get over it.
Seriously, though, another thread on this issue will reveal nothing more than the countless others on this board : some like Brexit, some think Brexit stinks and others are resigned to waiting to see what happens.

I voted UKIP

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:27 pm

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:31 pm

Two words

Irish Border

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:32 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I voted UKIP

Well done.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:33 pm

Brexit won't happen. It's 6 months away and nothing has been done.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:34 pm

No wonder you guys are so tetchy all the time.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:35 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Brexit won't happen. It's 6 months away and nothing has been done.

No, no, no - it's going really well, apparently.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:39 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Two words

Irish Border

If we have a free trade deal, then surely the Irish border becomes like the Norway-Sweden border - no longer a problem.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:45 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Two words

Irish Border

Why?

Why does there need to be a hard border if we go for the free trade option?

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:40 pm

Tusk is being incredibly disingenuous (which shows us the type of man we are dealing with) by not saying that they have offered Canada+++ to GB rather than to the UK.

It isn’t just goods movements at the border - it is also the Common Travel Area which far precedes the EU. My spies tell me that Ireland are frustrated with Brussels for not being flexible on these elements, but are unwilling to rock the boat too much.

There will be a deal struck though with the Irish Sea being involved somewhere and all sides will claim they have got what they wanted. We have two years to sort out wrinkles like the CTA. It sounds like a Free Trade Deal a la Boris without May’s cherry picking which those of us who are sensible risk takers think is the right option - a temporary minor dip in GDP then renewed growth afterwards with all the other non economic benefits.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:55 pm

Ireland need to remember who bailed them out in the last decade and stop being Junker's pawn. There has to be a solution to the border if people want it. TBF it's time to stop playing games on all sides and just sort it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:45 pm

There is a link somewhere but I can't be arsed to find it. The Norway-swedish border isn't the same as the Irish border.

It's on the BBC website somewhere.

I'm not going over it again after two ******* years of you lot refusing to see it as an issue.

Norway option is the best way out of it to be honest

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:46 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:To be honest, so do I.

Obviously the hardcore Eurolovers won't be happy because they want this country to assimilate into a blue and yellow nothingness but for the many who are simply concerned about the economic implications, this would be a big reassurance. It also delivers on most the key factors that leave voters wanted.

But of course May has come out and totally dismissed it.

One question, why?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 53731.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you were "simply concerned about the economic implications" then you wouldn't have voted to leave.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:52 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I voted UKIP

I’ve been having at look at the UKIP manifesto some sensible policies on there.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:54 pm

Really?

Must be hidden behind all the batshit mental ones.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:56 pm

dsr wrote:If we have a free trade deal, then surely the Irish border becomes like the Norway-Sweden border - no longer a problem.

There's a big difference between a free trade agreement and a customs union or single market.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:58 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Really?

Must be hidden behind all the batshit mental ones.

Why don’t you take a look & find out for yourself.

https://www.ukip.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thelaughingclaret · Post by **thelaughingclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:01 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote: for the many

Ah yes, that 48% many. I presume the 52% are the few?

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:05 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Really?

Must be hidden behind all the batshit mental ones.

Due to the fact that they're never going to get anywhere near power I assume they haven't bothered costing their manifesto so it's basically loads of additional public spending whilst cutting tax for everyone.

It's got plenty of pleasing policies but it's so unrealistic that if a serious party had produced it it would have been torn to shreds.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:09 pm

aggi wrote:Due to the fact that they're never going to get anywhere near power I assume they haven't bothered costing their manifesto so it's basically loads of additional public spending whilst cutting tax for everyone.

It's got plenty of pleasing policies but it's so unrealistic that if a serious party had produced it it would have been torn to shreds.

Would you be good enough to back that statement up, with identifying where you think these unrealistic policies are located?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:13 pm

Quick question jakub/cm

Do you honestly look at the UKIP manifesto and go "Yeah, that's just what the UK needs?"

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:16 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Quick question jakub/cm

Do you honestly look at the UKIP manifesto and go "Yeah, that's just what the UK needs?"

I look at the overall picture, I’m not saying it’s all good but better than the other 3 main contenders.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:22 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:I look at the overall picture, I’m not saying it’s all good but better than the other 3 main contenders.

Jakub, please don’t take offence by this question. I have a genuine interest in the origin of your name - my step son has a Polish father and his name is Jakub, hence the enquiry. If you are also Eastern European in origin I am genuinely surprised by your support for UKIP

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:23 pm

aggi wrote:Due to the fact that they're never going to get anywhere near power I assume they haven't bothered costing their manifesto so it's basically loads of additional public spending whilst cutting tax for everyone.

It's got plenty of pleasing policies but it's so unrealistic that if a serious party had produced it it would have been torn to shreds.

A perfect description of Labour's previous manifesto

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:24 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Quick question jakub/cm

Do you honestly look at the UKIP manifesto and go "Yeah, that's just what the UK needs?"

No but if they get enough votes it will pressure the tories to stop being suck cucks and actually go back to being somewhat conservative.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:24 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Quick question jakub/cm

Do you honestly look at the UKIP manifesto and go "Yeah, that's just what the UK needs?"

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I think any average person looking at these two current leading parties has very little to actually go out and vote for.

As for this thread, the Canada plus type deal seems the best of most worlds IMO, but concerned as to why Tusk has suddenly made it an option....

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:25 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Jakub, please don’t take offence by this question. I have a genuine interest in the origin of your name - my step son has a Polish father and his name is Jakub, hence the enquiry. If you are also Eastern European in origin I am genuinely surprised by your support for UKIP

It’s after joe jakub the football player.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:26 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Jakub, please don’t take offence by this question. I have a genuine interest in the origin of your name - my step son has a Polish father and his name is Jakub, hence the enquiry. If you are also Eastern European in origin I am genuinely surprised by your support for UKIP

Out of interest, why would you think that UKIP has anything against Eastern Europeans? (assuming that is what you are getting at?)

As far as I am aware, UKIP are not advocates to stop immigration, only control it.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:27 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:It’s after joe jakub the football player.

Fair enough, thanks

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:29 pm

burnleymik wrote:Out of interest, why would you think that UKIP has anything against Eastern Europeans? (assuming that is what you are getting at?)

As far as I am aware, UKIP are not advocates to stop immigration, only control it.

In Burnley the UKIP support generally comes from the anti-Islam aspect of society, where I live the UKIP stance is generally anti-Eastern European - it is an observation, that’s all

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:33 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Fair enough, thanks

No worries rick, I’m not racist or xenophobic, I just think the immigration policy has spiralled out of control, I should imagine plenty feel the same way & suffer some degrees of hardship because of it.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:35 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Really?

Must be hidden behind all the batshit mental ones.

Not like Labour's then?

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:39 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:No worries rick, I’m not racist or xenophobic, I just think the immigration policy has spiralled out of control, I should imagine plenty feel the same way & suffer some degrees of hardship because of it.

Most leavers aren't xenophobic or racist, unlike the leaders of the Labour party, but it's convenient but so hackneyed to say they are. Many labour voters voted leave because of immigration. Due to the added pressures on public services. But to be fair public services haven't kept pace with population growth.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:40 pm

Jakubclaret

Why don’t you take a look & find out for yourself.

https://www.ukip.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just had a brief perusal of the Taxation section. Of the 9 points, I was in agreement with most of them, the first 3 even got me smiling. I reserve judgement on Stamp Duty and Inheritance Tax.

Their Economics team should have a read of the following:

Modern Monetary Theory

“Taxpayer Money” Threatens Medicare-for-All (And Every Other Social Program)

by Jim Kavanagh

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... =8&t=41320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/21 ... l-program/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:46 pm

Stayingup wrote:Most leavers aren't xenophobic or racist, unlike the leaders of the Labour party, but it's convenient but so hackneyed to say they are. Many labour voters voted leave because of immigration. Due to the added pressures on public services. But to be fair public services haven't kept pace with population growth.

I’ve been labour upto now, it’s horrible that you get brainwashed with xenophobic or racism tags you’re constantly defending yourself & you’re almost convinced in some cases you could be but you’re not really. I seriously believe that the public services which you’ve mentioned are seriously lagging behind & the infrastructure will eventually collapse if something isn’t done.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:06 pm

burnleymik wrote:I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I think any average person looking at these two current leading parties has very little to actually go out and vote for.

As for this thread, the Canada plus type deal seems the best of most worlds IMO, but concerned as to why Tusk has suddenly made it an option....

He hasn’t, it has always been an option. But without Northern Ireland, which hasn’t changed, and which rightly is our sticking point.

They’ll solve it. Both sides are obviously waiting to the last minute so they don’t make as many concessions. No big deal for the rest of us what goes on until then.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:12 pm

I think the deal is fundamentally in place, and its a variation on Norway.

As long as we get to March 31st and the backstop kick in, we then have more time to realign the economy and minimise the damage.

I can see the Norway option getting through Parliament, as I suspect there will be enough MPs of a remainer persuasion who can see enough to be happier about.

And the mandate is fulfilled, and we can all move on.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:14 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: and we can all move on.

Not a chance on this board.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:19 pm

Believe it or not, there is if the deal suits enough.

The leavers get their wish and we've left, and people like me who worry about the economic damage can cope with it.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:23 pm

You may be able to cope with it Lancaster, but it isn't about deals or what's best for the country anymore on this board.

It got personal yonks since and some on here will never let it go.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:25 pm

Never got personal for me, what would be the point of that?

I don't even think its personal for anyone, but then again I tend to zone out of threads were its all getting a bit too silly.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:26 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Believe it or not, there is if the deal suits enough.

The leavers get their wish and we've left, and people like me who worry about the economic damage can cope with it.

The problem is if we're happy with the deal then there are people on this board who will be unhappy purely because we're happy.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I think the deal is fundamentally in place, and its a variation on Norway.

As long as we get to March 31st and the backstop kick in, we then have more time to realign the economy and minimise the damage.

I can see the Norway option getting through Parliament, as I suspect there will be enough MPs of a remainer persuasion who can see enough to be happier about.

And the mandate is fulfilled, and we can all move on.

Unless Im missing something it feels impossible to me that a Norway style deal could be agreed.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:36 pm

It might be called something else, but that is essentially what is being reported today

ERG and DUP will vote against it, labour will probably try to, but I reckon you could have enough Labour rebels to defeat the ERG/DUP.

Course, if it doesn't, then its either No deal or No Brexit.

In all honesty I can't see even JRM risking that going to a public vote.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:39 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:It might be called something else, but that is essentially what is being reported today

ERG and DUP will vote against it, labour will probably try to, but I reckon you could have enough Labour rebels to defeat the ERG/DUP.

Course, if it doesn't, then its either No deal or No Brexit.

In all honesty I can't see even JRM risking that going to a public vote.

But surely a Norway style deal would tie us too closely to freedom of movement and the single market. That feels insurmountable.