The policing of speech continues in the UK

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:51 pm

The police have once again intervened with twitter spats and gone after people on language offences. This time Graham Linehan is the target after he refused to use a certain word to describe someone.

Graham Linehan, the co-writer of the sitcom Father Ted, has been given a verbal harassment warning by police after a complaint by a transgender activist.

Linehan was told by West Yorkshire police not to contact the activist Stephanie Hayden, after a row on Twitter.

Hayden reported him for transphobia after he referred to her as “he” and for “deadnaming” her by referring to her by names used before she transitioned.

~ https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... st-twitter

It is rather ironic really, as a year ago, when Count Dankula was facing criminal charges over a joke, he was celebrating this. Funny how the liberals are all for this type of things until it affects them

https://www.rt.com/uk/422326-nazi-pug-count-dankula/

You see, the right winger in me could see this twist of irony and find it all rather amusing. However, the truth is there is nothing funny about it. This is becoming more and more common and police are becoming increasingly involved in the policing of language and arresting people for what they say, stretching the boundaries of what is deemed "hate speech" and at times seemingly totally making it up as they go along.

South Yorkshire police recently asked people to report "offensive non-crime" incidents to them, and encountered a massive backlash online from it. The worrying thing is however, despite receiving so much negative press from this, they didn't roll back on it or even feel they needed to issue a response, they are totally not bothered about the public and their feelings towards this.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/s ... 32131.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The police are complaining about being stretched constantly, with around 90% of reported crimes not leading to a conviction at this present time. Yet they seem to actually be encouraging people to report crimes that aren't even crimes to them, and they are actually following up on these too, which seriously begs the question, what the hell are we paying for?

Jonathan Pie (the only watchable liberal I know of) has just today made a video on the matter and it's in his typical half jest format but very much worth a watch as is a lot of his content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REaaC8y4GR8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:58 pm

Nurse, the screens !

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:58 pm

But its so much easier dealing with "offensive non crimes " than having to deal with say , murder being committed in front of you while you sit in the back of your chauffeur driven Range Rover.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:59 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Nurse, the screens !

Brilliant and valuable contribution, as usual.

You were a teacher once, I hear?

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:01 pm

Police...Teachers...Media. They're all politicians these days.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:03 pm

Yup, fully able to recognise worthwhile and interesting contributions as well as pure bullshit....

But, no, you're right, this is such an important issue, one that's never been covered on here before and one that threatens the very fabric of our society.

How the hell will we cope ?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:04 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Police...Teachers...Media. They're all politicians these days.

I think most of us hold some political view or other, don't you ?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:05 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Yup, fully able to recognise worthwhile and interesting contributions as well as pure bullshit....

But, no, you're right, this is such an important issue, one that's never been covered on here before and one that threatens the very fabric of our society.

How the hell will we cope ?

Well... it sort of does, actually.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:06 pm

Holding a political view doesnt make you a politician

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:11 pm

So how are the police, teachers and media types "politicians" as opposed to taxi-drivers, central heating engineers or some Burnley slob sitting in Spoons of a Friday afternoon ?

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:11 pm

Seems to hinge on an accusation of harassment. Using the 'wrong' (not-preferred) pronoun isn't a crime, obviously, but if a member of the public makes a complaint to the police alleging harassment the police are duty bound to investigate.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:14 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Well... it sort of does, actually.

It might scare you, CM, just add it to the other issues that seem to terrify you these days. I can't imagine too many folks taking it too much to heart, to be fair.

Don't worry, we'll all be OK.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:15 pm

https://youtu.be/9jOqOlETcRU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:27 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The police have once again intervened with twitter spats and gone after people on language offences. This time Graham Linehan is the target after he refused to use a certain word to describe someone.
~ https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... st-twitter

It is rather ironic really, as a year ago, when Count Dankula was facing criminal charges over a joke, he was celebrating this. Funny how the liberals are all for this type of things until it affects them

https://www.rt.com/uk/422326-nazi-pug-count-dankula/

You see, the right winger in me could see this twist of irony and find it all rather amusing. However, the truth is there is nothing funny about it. This is becoming more and more common and police are becoming increasingly involved in the policing of language and arresting people for what they say, stretching the boundaries of what is deemed "hate speech" and at times seemingly totally making it up as they go along.

South Yorkshire police recently asked people to report "offensive non-crime" incidents to them, and encountered a massive backlash online from it. The worrying thing is however, despite receiving so much negative press from this, they didn't roll back on it or even feel they needed to issue a response, they are totally not bothered about the public and their feelings towards this.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/s ... 32131.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The police are complaining about being stretched constantly, with around 90% of reported crimes not leading to a conviction at this present time. Yet they seem to actually be encouraging people to report crimes that aren't even crimes to them, and they are actually following up on these too, which seriously begs the question, what the hell are we paying for?

Jonathan Pie (the only watchable liberal I know of) has just today made a video on the matter and it's in his typical half jest format but very much worth a watch as is a lot of his content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REaaC8y4GR8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"South Yorkshire police recently asked people to report "offensive non-crime"

Would that be the same South Yorkshire police who were happy to collude with social workers and Labour councillors in being more concerned about community cohesion and cultural sensitivities, rather than investigate the industrial scale abuse and rape of vulnerable children on its door step?

That South Yorkshire police?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:28 pm

Spiral wrote:Seems to hinge on an accusation of harassment. Using the 'wrong' (not-preferred) pronoun isn't a crime, obviously, but if a member of the public makes a complaint to the police alleging harassment the police are duty bound to investigate.

Well, no because they are actually encouraging this type of reporting of non-crimes and worse still charging people with crimes, not just investigating complaint out of routine necessity

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:29 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:"South Yorkshire police recently asked people to report "offensive non-crime"

Would that be the same South Yorkshire police who were happy to collude with social workers and Labour councillors in being more concerned about community cohesion and cultural sensitivities, rather than investigate the industrial scale abuse and rape of vulnerable children on its door step?

That South Yorkshire police?

The very same, yes.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:30 pm

As soon as i saw this thread title i was committed to posting this sentence: Ah, so you saw the Jonathan Pie video too.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:32 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Funny how the liberals are all for this type of things until it affects them

Stop calling people who hole illiberal beliefs "liberal". Unless it's just about hating liberals and you don't care about logic, in that case carry on.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Stop calling people who hole illiberal beliefs "liberal". Unless it's just about hating liberals and you don't care about logic, in that case carry on.

They call themselves liberals, so what else am I supposed to call them?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:36 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:They call themselves liberals, so what else am I supposed to call them?

Just because i call myself an attack helicopter doesn't mean I am one.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:37 pm

South Yorkshire police -

Hillsborough.

1400 children's live decimated.

And the usual left wing apologists come sprinting along like clockwork, attempting to make limp excuses for them.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:39 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:South Yorkshire police -

Hillsborough.

1400 children's live decimated.

And the usual left wing apologists come sprinting along like clockwork, attempting to make limp excuses for them.

Eh? Are you so full of hatred for the left that you're crow-baring the Hillsborough disaster into a thread about illiberalism just so that you can bring into it a "think of the children" argument?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Just because i call myself an attack helicopter doesn't mean I am one.

Unrelated but sort of related to this thread

The number of likes you've made on this forum

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:42 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Just because i call myself an attack helicopter doesn't mean I am one.

Similarly , just because I say you're NOT an idiot , doesn't mean it's true.

Have a great thread defending the indefensible South Yorkshire Politically Correct Force.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:44 pm

A refusal to engage usually stems from a person talking nonsense or what is perceived to be.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:45 pm

Some tasty stereotyping there Eddie....

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Stop calling people who hole illiberal beliefs "liberal". Unless it's just about hating liberals and you don't care about logic, in that case carry on.

I think we've established that not calling someone what they define themselves as can get you in trouble so I'm not sure what else they're to be called...

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:49 pm

thatdberight wrote:I think we've established that not calling someone what they define themselves as can get you in trouble so I'm not sure what else they're to be called...

It's easy to demonstrate that someone isn't a liberal when they hold illiberal positions.
It's not as easy to demonstrate that transgender people have a male or female brain.

Your analogy works as a funny joke, but it doesn't work as part of an argument.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:50 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Similarly , just because I say you're NOT an idiot , doesn't mean it's true.

Have a great thread defending the indefensible South Yorkshire Politically Correct Force.

Do you enjoy just making **** up about other people?

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:53 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Well, no because they are actually encouraging this type of reporting of non-crimes and worse still charging people with crimes, not just investigating complaint out of routine necessity

It is within the remit of the police forces to take record and, if necessary, preventative measures if there's suspicion of the possibility of a crime being committed (for example, in instances such as Islamist radicalisation), even if a crime has not been committed; and obviously a non-crime incident, by definition, cannot be criminally prosecuted. I'm not saying whether or not I agree with it because that's irrelevant.

Look, lump this particular instance (the harassment allegation) in with your belief in a grand conspiracy all you like but the simple fact of the matter is the police were responding to an allegation of harassment.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:10 pm

Spiral wrote:It is within the remit of the police forces to take record and, if necessary, preventative measures if there's suspicion of the possibility of a crime being committed (for example, in instances such as Islamist radicalisation), even if a crime has not been committed; and obviously a non-crime incident, by definition, cannot be criminally prosecuted. I'm not saying whether or not I agree with it because that's irrelevant.

Look, lump this particular instance (the harassment allegation) in with your belief in a grand conspiracy all you like but the simple fact of the matter is the police were responding to an allegation of harassment.

It's a bit like they're building a database of people's opinions to use in future if they ever want to prosecute them for a crime the police think they've committed. It becomes evidence if they're ever prosecuted for something. "Look, good people of the jury, at how much of a **** this person is".

If this was the Soviets we'd be condemning it because clearly it's a totalitarian tactic, but then so is the government reading our emails and listening to our phone calls just the same way totalitarian regimes would intercept and read people's mail.
It makes me wonder if we really did win the cold war, or whether we just became a sort of Lite version of them,

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:16 pm

Why do the right wingers care about this. Not even interesting. Bunch of snowflakes offended by every guardian story

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:06 pm

Inchy wrote:Why do the right wingers care about this. Not even interesting. Bunch of snowflakes offended by every guardian story

Another high quality comment

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:13 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Just because i call myself an attack helicopter doesn't mean I am one.

No....just a chopper

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:16 pm

You can either be fluffy partially frozen precipitation or you can be a type of porcine meat product...but it seems you cannot be inbetween these days

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:20 pm

I think it was when I read that Millennials were offended by the TV show Friends that I decided to disengage from the various controversies that currently rear their head online on an almost daily basis. I realised that I'm a Millennial, and nobody I know in my personal life is offended by Friends, and that same could be said for the rest of the stuff people get het up about. Nobody I know wants to ban poppies, nobody wanted to ban England flags during the World Cup, nobody I know cares about Easter Eggs being named accordingly and so on and so forth. Basically, I'm absolutely convinced that these outrages spread by social media are furors based on the views of people that represent a tiny fraction of society. The world isn't going mad, and I feel so much better having deleted all my social media accounts. In fact I only get wind of this stuff by coming on here, which I guess is a small price to pay for keeping up to date with the goings on at BFC.

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:32 pm

SammyBoy wrote:I think it was when I read that Millennials were offended by the TV show Friends that I decided to disengage from the various controversies that currently rear their head online on an almost daily basis. I realised that I'm a Millennial, and nobody I know in my personal life is offended by Friends, and that same could be said for the rest of the stuff people get het up about. Nobody I know wants to ban poppies, nobody wanted to ban England flags during the World Cup, nobody I know cares about Easter Eggs being named accordingly and so on and so forth. Basically, I'm absolutely convinced that these outrages spread by social media are furors based on the views of people that represent a tiny fraction of society. The world isn't going mad, and I feel so much better having deleted all my social media accounts. In fact I only get wind of this stuff by coming on here, which I guess is a small price to pay for keeping up to date with the goings on at BFC.

Social media acts like a megaphone to the wacked out and those that rightly or wrongly feel unheard. These people then get empowered whereas in the past they would have kept their views to themselves.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:40 pm

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:12 pm

I know it’s a work of fiction, but anyone who has watched “The man in the High Castle” will know what a society is like with police rule - series 3 is getting good.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:19 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:I know it’s a work of fiction, but anyone who has watched “The man in the High Castle” will know what a society is like with police rule - series 3 is getting good.

Is it worth watching as a series, I've browsed but unsure if gripping?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:24 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Is it worth watching as a series, I've browsed but unsure if gripping?

Did you watch series 1 and 2? If not, watch them first. Series 3 is a natural continuation from the end of Series 2, with some interesting subplots

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:31 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Did you watch series 1 and 2? If not, watch them first. Series 3 is a natural continuation from the end of Series 2, with some interesting subplots

No be honest but I know the synopsis, I'll view tomorrow from the start, with Netflix & amazon video lots you skip but shouldn't & only until somebody mentions you think why not, I've missed things initially & only until a idea appears I take a avid interest.Thanks

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:51 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:I know it’s a work of fiction, but anyone who has watched “The man in the High Castle” will know what a society is like with police rule - series 3 is getting good.

I'm not backing authoritarianism here, believe me, but it's important to understand the context in which such measures and procedures were adopted, namely the recommendations based on the findings of the inquiry into the murder of Stephen Lawrence. (He was a British citizen. This isn't an abstract thought experiment; we're talking about peoples lives, here.)

The UK isn't a police state, nor is it moving towards a police state, so let's tone it down a bit. A police state, according to any accepted definition of the term, is one in which the police exists to protect and enable the ruling authority by means of suppressing dissent. No police force which adopts protocol with the intent of protecting the individual, and minorities at that, could ever be accused by any rational person of enabling an authoritarian regime.

(I apologise in advance if I've misread the tone of your post. It sounded to me like you were alluding to the notion of our police forces enabling authoritarianism.)

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:09 pm

Spiral wrote:I'm not backing authoritarianism here, believe me, but it's important to understand the context in which such measures and procedures were adopted, namely the recommendations based on the findings of the inquiry into the murder of Stephen Lawrence. (He was a British citizen. This isn't an abstract thought experiment; we're talking about peoples lives, here.)

The UK isn't a police state, nor is it moving towards a police state, so let's tone it down a bit. A police state, according to any accepted definition of the term, is one in which the police exists to protect and enable the ruling authority by means of suppressing dissent. No police force which adopts protocol with the intent of protecting the individual, and minorities at that, could ever be accused by any rational person of enabling an authoritarian regime.

(I apologise in advance if I've misread the tone of your post. It sounded to me like you were alluding to the notion of our police forces enabling authoritarianism.)

Yeah mate, wrong end of the sh!tty stick - I’m just highlighting that for an opinion on what a real police state could be like - watch that, as it shows (albeit as a work of fiction) what the world could be like with the Nazi’s winning WW2.

We are far from a police state, but still we must be mindful of small erosions into fundamental rights such as freedom of speech; and some technological monitoring on t’interweb too

HieronymousBoschHobs · Post by **HieronymousBoschHobs** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:01 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Stop calling people who hole illiberal beliefs "liberal". Unless it's just about hating liberals and you don't care about logic, in that case carry on.

Are you talking about Graham Linehan? I'm pretty sure he holds liberal beliefs; having read the article, it sounds like he holds pretty strongly liberal beliefs.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:07 am

HieronymousBoschHobs wrote:Are you talking about Graham Linehan?

No

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:27 am

“And then they came for me”

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:53 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:As soon as i saw this thread title i was committed to posting this sentence: Ah, so you saw the Jonathan Pie video too.

If you had people like him setting the agenda on the liberal scene, you'd be winning. Instead you have borderline communists with pink short back and sides screaming at white males ruling the Liberal scene.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:11 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:If you had people like him setting the agenda on the liberal scene, you'd be winning. Instead you have borderline communists with pink short back and sides screaming at white males ruling the Liberal scene.

No we don't, you just think we do because you think everyone who opposes your worldview is a liberal. Get off of r/kotakuinaction and r/mensrights or whatever shitkicker websites you use to misinform you and start thinking for yourself.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:No we don't, you just think we do because you think everyone who opposes your worldview is a liberal. Get off of r/kotakuinaction and r/mensrights or whatever shitkicker websites you use to misinform you and start thinking for yourself.

yes you do though , it is literally all around us. I see it every single time I do any contracting work on a University campus.