Peoples Vote

[Imploding Turtle]

The violence by the Spanish authorities that your heroes in the EU described as "proportionate"!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.politico.eu/article/brussel ... catalonia/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"However it is a duty for any government to uphold the law, and this sometimes does require the proportionate use of force.” Timmermans, Commission First Vice President.

Elderly ladies being dragged out of polling boothk by their hair and beaten- "proportionate" say the EU.

Unlike you to define a massive group of people by the words or actions of just one person.

That was his opinion. He expressed it during a debate. Do you know what a debate is? It means when two of more people have competing opinions. That means there were opposing opinions. Yet here you are deciding that one person's opinion trump's all others because that's the one that feeds your narrative.

[RingoMcCartney]

Unlike you to define a massive group of people by the words or actions of just one person.

That was his opinion. He expressed it during a debate. Do you know what a debate is? It means when two of more people have competing opinions. That means there were opposing opinions. Yet here you are deciding that one person's opinion trump's all others because that's the one that feeds your narrative.

https://youtu.be/kKa5FzZzI18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Proportionate" - the EU.....

[Imploding Turtle]

https://youtu.be/kKa5FzZzI18

"Proportionate" - the EU.....

We're on the same side of this you dumb ****. Why are you trying to argue?

And no, the EU didn't say that was proportionate. One person said it was, and he's a moron. As is anyone who thinks that because one person said something in a debate that it means it's the official position of an organisation like the E ******* U.

[RingoMcCartney]

We're on the same side of this you dumb ****. Why are you trying to argue?

And no, the EU didn't say that was proportionate. One person said it was, and he's a moron. As is anyone who thinks that because one person said something in a debate that it means it's the official position of an organisation like the E ******* U.

https://youtu.be/hGJmTylHM6g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Proportionate" - the EU.....

[RingoMcCartney]

I don't argue with idiots. I find they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience......

Putting you back in your safe place now.

Toodle pip.

[Spijed]

https://youtu.be/hGJmTylHM6g

"Proportionate" - the EU.....

And I'll bet you'd be in support of the very same police if they requested the extradition of a terror suspect from Syria, for example.

Hypocrite.

[RingoMcCartney]

And I'll bet you'd be in support of the very same police if they requested the extradition of a terror suspect from Syria, for example.

Hypocrite.

What a very very odd, tenuous and shaky argument to make!

Weirdo.

[AndrewJB]

What deal do you all think we'll end up with?

[burnleymik]

Good question, but who knows at this point? Tories are tearing themselves to bits over May's insistence on pushing through a version of the chequers deal.

Time is certainly running out so the Tory Brexiteers will have to make their move soon and I think that will define what type of deal we go for.

[Right_winger]

We're on the same side of this you dumb ****. Why are you trying to argue?

And no, the EU didn't say that was proportionate. One person said it was, and he's a moron. As is anyone who thinks that because one person said something in a debate that it means it's the official position of an organisation like the E ******* U.

Owned.com by Ringo...

Bet it burns.

[Imploding Turtle]

Owned.com by Ringo...

Bet it burns.

No one says "owned" now. It's "pwnd".

[BleedingClaret]

You have it the wrong way around, it was the No campaign that used being an EU member as a reason to vote against independence. Nicky S and the SNP were the ones who said in their election manifesto that if Scotland was taken out of the EU against their will then that would be grounds for a second independence referendum.

And the reason Spain would oppose it would be to not reward Scotland for gaining independence, especially through a referendum, since that's what Catalonia also want and which the Spanish authorities violently oppose.

Ta for reply

I thought it was cos Scotland was just before Spain in alphabetical order.

On Scotland though if they had voted for independence would they have to have a hard border after Brexit

[Imploding Turtle]

Ta for reply

I thought it was cos Scotland was just before Spain in alphabetical order.

On Scotland though if they had voted for independence would they have to have a hard border after Brexit

**** knows.

[Billy Balfour]

What deal do you all think we'll end up with?

Whichever deal the DUP agrees to?

[Jakubclaret]

Whichever deal the DUP agrees to?

As time goes on, I think people are just generally losing interest, from something what was meant to be a simple straightforward process, we've somehow contrived to be doing exactly the opposite, is it any wonder some people can't be a**ed.

[Imploding Turtle]

Ringo, did you write this?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... 1539272919" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is what qualifies as "news > politics" for the Telegraph. What the **** kind of writing is that? That's not in the opinions section, that's their actual news section.

[burnleymik]

There won't be this "peoplesvote" anyways. It's already been categorically ruled out by the PM. Let them waste their money and their time.

[Jakubclaret]

There won't be this "peoplesvote" anyways. It's already been categorically ruled out by the PM. Let them waste their money and their time.

Doomed idea from the outset, an attempted affront to democracy as soon as the rich started backing it, Lineker & dunkerton ect the working class wouldn't fall for it. I boycotted superdry onwards not that I ever bought much but from a family point of view, & don't miss Linekers mush on MOTD.

[aggi]

As time goes on, I think people are just generally losing interest, from something what was meant to be a simple straightforward process, we've somehow contrived to be doing exactly the opposite, is it any wonder some people can't be a**ed.

Let's be honest, anyone who thought leaving would be a simple, straightforward process had absolutely no idea what they were voting for.

The Canada deal took about 8 years and the Japan deal 5 years and they were both considerably less complex.

[dsr]

Ringo, did you write this?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... 1539272919" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is what qualifies as "news > politics" for the Telegraph. What the **** kind of writing is that? That's not in the opinions section, that's their actual news section.

Actually, no. He's called the parliamentary sketchwriter and it's clear that it's a sketch. Not a news article. I can see it would be confusing for someone who doesn't know what a sketch is when it's in words, but it's basically a written-down version of the big cartoon drawings that you also see in the new sections of newspapers. Not news at all.

[Jakubclaret]

Let's be honest, anyone who thought leaving would be a simple, straightforward process had absolutely no idea what they were voting for.

The Canada deal took about 8 years and the Japan deal 5 years and they were both considerably less complex.

I certainly knew exactly what I was voting for, but what I didn't expect is the PM currently overseeing this to be dilly dallying that much. I'm well aware of what the other deals took in terms of time, 2019 is the date just feels like prolonged agony seconds feel like months.

[burnleymik]

I certainly knew exactly what I was voting for, but what I didn't expect is the PM currently overseeing this to be dilly dallying that much. I'm well aware of what the other deals took in terms of time, 2019 is the date just feels like prolonged agony seconds feel like months.

Let's remember it wasn't just what we were voting for, but also what we were voting against.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Let's be honest, anyone who thought leaving would be a simple, straightforward process had absolutely no idea what they were voting for.

The Canada deal took about 8 years and the Japan deal 5 years and they were both considerably less complex.

Leaving IS a simple, straightforward process. Or should have been, if we had said at the start we wanted a free trade deal and started on the detail straight away.

Agreeing a long term deal after a 2 year transition is obviously a lengthier bit than the withdrawal should be, but there is a 2 year notice period then a 2 year transition.

What we did not envisage is Cameron resigning, a Remainer with a long record of failure replacing him, a stupid election, losing her majority, doing a deal with the DUP, being taken to court by Gina Millar, her two Brexiteer close advisors both sacked, dilly dallying over agreeing the government position (at least a year too long), silly attempts to cherry pick a half in membership, sidelining cabinet ministers, giving a staunch Europhile (Robbins) the top negotiating job, backtracking on her Lancaster House vision, the People’s Vote imbeciles getting in the way, then deciding to shaft N Ireland.

14 cock-ups.

Not sure anyone can have anticipated that, and I am sure nobody can blame it on Leave voters not knowing what they were voting for.

The OBR today produced a big report with their normal pessimistic words but also said Brexit is nothing compared to the huge productivity hit the financial crisis caused. It’s not worth the angst, we should just leave as instructed then make the best of it afterwards for better or for worse.

[Imploding Turtle]

Actually, no. He's called the parliamentary sketchwriter and it's clear that it's a sketch. Not a news article. I can see it would be confusing for someone who doesn't know what a sketch is when it's in words, but it's basically a written-down version of the big cartoon drawings that you also see in the new sections of newspapers. Not news at all.

It's in their news > politics section. They're reporting it as news.

[dsr]

It's in their news > politics section. They're reporting it as news.

Like I said, it can be confusing. Don't worry about it - everyone else knows the difference.

If it helps, here's the Guardian news section with a headline "All too easy for Corbyn as Maybot reduced to babble". It's in the News > Politics section, but it's a sketch, not serious news, by their politics sketchwriter. Obviously you're going to be complaining that it's a shocking way of reporting serious news, but I promise, you'll be the only one. Everyone else knows it's a sketch and not to be taken seriously.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-question" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[claretandy]

Confirmed by the EU that if a 2nd ref was held the rebate would go.

https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/sta ... 2398667777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[South West Claret.]

183 days now for the much needed “informed” referendum...tick toc

[tiger76]

Not much sign of cabinet unity here,https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45853384 why is the PM so obsessed with pushing a dead duck (Chequers) when it's got no hope of passing a parliamentary vote.

[nil_desperandum]

Not much sign of cabinet unity here,https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45853384 why is the PM so obsessed with pushing a dead duck (Chequers) when it's got no hope of passing a parliamentary vote.

Possibly because when she runs out of options she can say "I was genuinely opposed to a People's Vote, but what else can we now do?. Parliament can't sort this out, and a General Election is unlikely to solve it either."
It's becoming increasingly clear that with the DUP red lines the only options now are No deal or People's Vote, and there's no way No deal will get through Parliament.

[nil_desperandum]

Confirmed by the EU that if a 2nd ref was held the rebate would go.

https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/sta ... 2398667777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not confirmation in any shape or form. Without stating the obvious: it's one person's view.

[taio]

Not confirmation in any shape or form. Without stating the obvious: it's one person's view.

A pretty important view given his position.

[Right_winger]

Let’s just hurry up and leave with no deal then lower taxes to gain a significant competitive advantage over the mafiosa Like EU.

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

Surely nobody would vote to remain without our rebate??

[nil_desperandum]

Surely nobody would vote to remain without our rebate??

But there won't be a vote if losing our rebate is part of the remain deal, so it's a totally hypothetical point.
The most likely scenario - given that neither side can agree anything, is that the EU will offer us a Remain "deal" with a few minor concessions to sugar the pill. That would suit them well, as they could get the whole thing out of the way fairly swiftly, continue to receive payments from the UK, end uncertainty for business, solve the Irish border, and ensure that there is an alternative to the nightmare of No deal.
There will only be a "People's Vote" if there are credible options on the ballot paper.

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

That was my point, if we have to remain without a rebate it blows the “people’s vote” out of the water.

[Caballo]

But there won't be a vote if losing our rebate is part of the remain deal, so it's a totally hypothetical point.
The most likely scenario - given that neither side can agree anything, is that the EU will offer us a Remain "deal" with a few minor concessions to sugar the pill. That would suit them well, as they could get the whole thing out of the way fairly swiftly, continue to receive payments from the UK, end uncertainty for business, solve the Irish border, and ensure that there is an alternative to the nightmare of No deal.
There will only be a "People's Vote" if there are credible options on the ballot paper.

Have we not been there already though with 'call me Daves' mission to stave of the referendum in feb 2016?

[CombatClaret]

We know the post-Brexit world will be very different from now. It cannot be otherwise, because no form of Brexit will remotely match up to the promises made by the leave campaign in the referendum: they were vote-gathering fantasies, not serious politics.

I have no constituency vote clouding my view of Brexit. I have no ambition driving my support for it. I have no party whips demanding loyalty before conscience. I have made no false promises about Brexit that I must pretend can still be honoured, even though – in my heart – I know they cannot. I am free to say absolutely and precisely what I believe about Brexit...

...I believe those who promised what will never be delivered will have much to answer for. They persuaded a deceived population to vote to be weaker and poorer. That will never be forgotten – nor forgiven."

John Major - Former Conservative Prime Minister

[dsr]

The I'M clever and you're stupid" argument has been used a lot by remain voters. It isn't a vote-winner.

[nil_desperandum]

Have we not been there already though with 'call me Daves' mission to stave of the referendum in feb 2016?

Very much changed circumstances now. We've had the referendum - as you obviously know, so the goalposts and dynamics have changed.
Very much in the interests of the EU negotiators to give us incentives to change our mind, without compromising the underlying principles of the EU.
(Which as has been known since the outset they can't do).

[Caballo]

Very much changed circumstances now. We've had the referendum - as you obviously know, so the goalposts and dynamics have changed.
Very much in the interests of the EU negotiators to give us incentives to change our mind, without compromising the underlying principles of the EU.
(Which as has been known since the outset they can't do).

I'd be very happy if you're proved right Nil.