James McClean to be investigated by the FA

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:10 pm

cbwhu wrote:they pay his wages

a portion of which then in turn goes to the British Army

Seems his principles disappear right around payday

I’m assuming you mean in Taxes?
If you do, it’s a poor foundation for your point.
What his mandatory taxes are spent on is beyond his and any other ordinary Tax Payer’s control.
I’m sure many Greenpeace members objuct to their tax money being spent on a replacement for Trident, or that many a UKIP voter doesn’t like tax pounds going to Foreign Aid. That doesn’t make them a hypocrite for doing what is obliged of them and paying their Tax.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:10 pm

Does everyone that doesn't stand still for the national anthem hate the UK?

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:11 pm

dsr wrote: I wrote another paragraph criticising his attitude to the national anthem. You left out everything about the national anthem and chose to link my national anthem criticism to the poppy - even though to the smallest intelligences on here (yourself excepted) it was clear that wasn't what I meant.

Ignore me if I have this wrong but was the national anthem played? I thought it was just a minutes silence

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:11 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Does everyone that doesn't stand still for the national anthem hate the UK?

In dsr's mind, clearly.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:11 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:United fans did abuse him according a friend who is a season ticket holder there and many snubbed him after the game in the lounge where the players and some of the more richer fans mingle.

But because its Man Utd not much will be reported on that as they have the media in their pockets

they were at bournemouth on saturday.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:13 pm

At least the heat is off James McClean now as yet another thread turns into the Imploding Turtle Roadshow.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:14 pm

It's hard to imagine anything less consequential than a man not wanting to wear a flower on his shirt and yet every year, without fail, the same mindless drongos get outraged by it. Snowflakery of the highest order. It's got to the stage where I have to think twice about whether I want wear one myself because I don't want to be associated with the cult of bellendery that has come to surround it.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:15 pm

dsr wrote:Glad you admit it.

Or do you think that leaving out words can make a difference to the original meaning?

I'll try and make it simple enough even for you. I wrote one paragraph saying it's his own choice to wear a poppy. That is not a criticism, though you seem to think it is.

I wrote another paragraph criticising his attitude to the national anthem. You left out everything about the national anthem and chose to link my national anthem criticism to the poppy - even though to the smallest intelligences on here (yourself excepted) it was clear that wasn't what I meant.

Yes, leaving out words can make a difference to the original meaning. That's called removing the context. That's not what I did to your quote. You claimed that the guy hates the UK. What i quoted accurately represents what you claimed; and again, in case you've forgot, your claim was that he hates the UK.

This is what you said. You said he hates the UK. As everyone can see I didn't remove your words form it's context. You said he hates the UK. I said you said he hates the UK. You know I didn't misquote you. Stop with the bullshit. You are not a politician.

Not wearing a poppy is his own choice. Other people also for whatever reason don't want one.

What I don't understand is why, seeing as he hates the UK so much that he can't even stand still for the national anthem, he chooses to earn a living here? He could get a job in most of Europe's professional leagues. If I hated a country so much that I couldn't respect their anthem (Pakistan comes to mind with current events), then I certainly wouldn't want to earn a living there.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:15 pm

its funny that by saying 'uneducated cavemen' he's attracted loads of replies from uneducated cavemen. its like saying candyman 3 times.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:16 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:they were at bournemouth on saturday.

Yeah but similar to some of the other big teams they do still congregate after a game once back. Owners showing off their assets like Pogba to their friends. Hadnt really thought when he mentioned it yesterday that they were away ha ha. I do know though that at Utd the players have to do a lot of schmoozing with benefactors of the club

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:17 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:In dsr's mind, clearly.

Wait till he finds out that i neither stand of the anthem or wear a poppy. He'll be dialling 1488 to report me to the patriotism police.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:18 pm

Tommy Robinson will be outraged

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:21 pm

Bacchus wrote:It's hard to imagine anything less consequential than a man not wanting to wear a flower on his shirt and yet every year, without fail, the same mindless drongos get outraged by it. Snowflakery of the highest order. It's got to the stage where I have to think twice about whether I want wear one myself because I don't want to be associated with the cult of bellendery that has come to surround it.

Agreed, Bacchus. I stopped wearing mine a few years ago.
It started to lose its meaningfulness for me when people started putting Poppies on the front of their cars in a manner akin to red noses on and around Red Nose Day.
Now they’re everywhere. You can even get pin badges with Football Club crests incorporated. What on Earth is that about?
The whole thing has become a devalued virtue signaling parade to me. I find it al very dispiriting. Especially as this year is the 100th Anniversary of the 1918 Armistice.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:23 pm

i can't actually remember the last time i wore a poppy. certainly not for a few years.

still buy a couple though.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:26 pm

I just don't get the big deal.

Maybe he should learn to keep his mouth shut on social media... but I don't see why it's different to 20 years ago when you just heard 'stories' about players in the pubs etc. But to be honest, the poppy just seems to represent whatever the wearer feels it does. Nobody can remember what it is they aren't supposed to forget... otherwise someone with a different viewpoint wouldn't go through this every bloody year.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:28 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Yes, leaving out words can make a difference to the original meaning. That's called removing the context. That's not what I did to your quote. You claimed that the guy hates the UK. What i quoted accurately represents what you claimed; and again, in case you've forgot, your claim was that he hates the UK.

This is what you said. You said he hates the UK. As everyone can see I didn't remove your words form it's context. You said he hates the UK. I said you said he hates the UK. You know I didn't misquote you. Stop with the bullshit. You are not a politician.

This is what you said in reply to my post, attempting to summarise what I had said - "He doesn't submit to poppy-fascism therefore he hates our country." This sentence bore only coincidental resemblance to what I had said, which was that he was entitled to choose to wear a poppy or not, but he hated the country because he refused to stand for the national anthem.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:29 pm

JTClaret wrote:...

Maybe he should learn to keep his mouth shut on social media...
...

Or maybe people should learn to keep their mouths shut about someone elses personal choices.

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:30 pm

The last I heard his club pay his wages and as such if the club insist on him wearing a poppy on his shirt if picked he should wear it, of course he has the right then to withdraw his Labour and face the consequences as set out.
It has to be remembered that if it wasn’t for the likes of my Grandad who fought with the Lancashire Fusiliers in World War 1 and an uncle who got shot in WW11 and my wife’s Grandad who was given his last rites at El Alemain the likes of McClean wouldn’t now be in their privileged position of getting paid English Pounds to kick a football. I certainly didn’t agree with the Iraq war but when I was in the US at the time I stood up when the played the national anthem.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:32 pm

dsr wrote:This is what you said in reply to my post, attempting to summarise what I had said - "He doesn't submit to poppy-fascism therefore he hates our country." This sentence bore only coincidental resemblance to what I had said, which was that he was entitled to choose to wear a poppy or not, but he hated the country because he refused to stand for the national anthem.

I don’t stand for our Nationa Anthem. Does that make me hate our Country? Or is it merely a reflection on my antipathy to the words and music of our NA which, as a Republican and an Atheist, I feel do not represent my feelings about our Country in any way, shape, or form?

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:46 pm

Dy1geo wrote:The last I heard his club pay his wages and as such if the club insist on him wearing a poppy on his shirt if picked he should wear it, of course he has the right then to withdraw his Labour and face the consequences as set out.
It has to be remembered that if it wasn’t for the likes of my Grandad who fought with the Lancashire Fusiliers in World War 1 and an uncle who got shot in WW11 and my wife’s Grandad who was given his last rites at El Alemain the likes of McClean wouldn’t now be in their privileged position of getting paid English Pounds to kick a football. I certainly didn’t agree with the Iraq war but when I was in the US at the time I stood up when the played the national anthem.

No if we’d lost WW2 we’d have been forced to wear symbols.

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:48 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:You can even get pin badges with Football Club crests incorporated. What on Earth is that about?
The whole thing has become a devalued virtue signaling parade to me.

I agree wholeheartedly. The spectacle of 'branded' football poppies is crass and disrespectful.

Socrates · Post by **Socrates** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:51 pm

ClaretShaun wrote:File the pig alongside other low life like Ian Huntley .....

That is either the best parody post ever, or the stupidest thing i’ve ever read.

Incredible stuff.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:53 pm

Dy1geo wrote:The last I heard his club pay his wages and as such if the club insist on him wearing a poppy on his shirt if picked he should wear it, of course he has the right then to withdraw his Labour and face the consequences as set out.
It has to be remembered that if it wasn’t for the likes of my Grandad who fought with the Lancashire Fusiliers in World War 1 and an uncle who got shot in WW11 and my wife’s Grandad who was given his last rites at El Alemain the likes of McClean wouldn’t now be in their privileged position of getting paid English Pounds to kick a football. I certainly didn’t agree with the Iraq war but when I was in the US at the time I stood up when the played the national anthem.

Your grandad also fought for our freedom not to wear the poppy.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:01 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Your grandad also fought for our freedom not to wear the poppy.

My grandfather (who I never met) fought and died because he was told to, not necessarily because he believed in any cause - aside from serving his country.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:05 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:My grandfather (who I never met) fought and died because he was told to, not necessarily because he believed in any cause - aside from serving his country.

Also that.

Young men facing the most horrible thing imaginable.

Every persons family was effected by it in some way.

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:10 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Your grandad also fought for our freedom not to wear the poppy.

The point that I was trying to make is that if the club insisted he wore a shirt with a poppy on which is a symbol of remembrance as an employee he should have to wear it or withhold his Labour.
The poppy Is a symbol to remember those that gave the greatest sacrifice for their country many of which were conscripted and it is to remember those that fell whether they be a Christian, Sikh, Hindu or Muslim and the irony is that many Catholic Irishmen lost their lives.
I certainly haven’t agreed with all our “foreign adventures” but I will still honour those that lost their live
I wear the poppy with Pride and from the snippets of information my Grandad passed on to my Mum I cannot begin to imagine what he went through at Gallipoli etc
For those that don’t wear a poppy fine but remember those lives lost.

Marty Dobson · Post by **Marty Dobson** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:19 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:He certainly does, as he showed when representing the North as an under 21 and then jumping ship to represent the Republic at senior level.
Clearly very proud of his "Derry" roots.

Derry City play in the Airtricity league and many of their supporters support the Republic of Ireland team as do many nationalists in the North. His roots are not with the North. Clearly very proud of his Derry roots.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:27 pm

Every year it's the same rubbish.

It's a choice to wear a poppy, not a mandatory requirement.

His reasons for not wearing a poppy are understandable, given his heritage, upbringing and the depth of local feeling in and around the Derry area.

It would be easier every year if he 'gave in' to the pressure and wore a poppy on his shirt. The fact he puts himself through this same irrational gauntlet of hate, year on year, shows he is a man of principle and fervently believes in standing up for what he believes in.

Good on him I say.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:29 pm

Braindead wrote:Every year it's the same rubbish.

It's a choice to wear a poppy, not a mandatory requirement.

His reasons for not wearing a poppy are understandable, given his heritage, upbringing and the depth of local feeling in and around the Derry area.

It would be easier every year if he 'gave in' to the pressure and wore a poppy on his shirt. The fact he puts himself through this same irrational gauntlet of hate, year on year, shows he is a man of principle and fervently believes in standing up for what he believes in.

Good on him I say.

Why do you hate the UK though?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:30 pm

JohnMac wrote:I don't agree with him but respect his right to not wear a Poppy.

He has always maintained this stance but perhaps a dignified silence may have brought him more respect and understanding.

It doesn't matter what he does anymore.

He released a statement when he was at Wigan I think, it was very clear, concise and understandable.

The problem is the cave dwellers who follow football clubs can't seem to understand his reasons and would rather fire up the outrage bandwagon every single year

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:31 pm

dsr wrote:No. Read again. I said "I didn't say that he had said he hates the UK, just that he hates the UK so much that he can't even stand still for the national anthem.

Look at the words in bold type and underlined. He doesn't say in words that he hates the UK, but his actions suggest he does.

No one is saying you said McClean said he hates the UK. But you quite clearly said that he hates the UK. Would you like me to quote the bit where you said the he hates the UK?

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:33 pm

Quite admire him for standing up to the vitrol every year though to be honest.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Why do you hate the UK though?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:35 pm

Dy1geo wrote:The last I heard his club pay his wages and as such if the club insist on him wearing a poppy on his shirt if picked he should wear it, of course he has the right then to withdraw his Labour and face the consequences as set out.
It has to be remembered that if it wasn’t for the likes of my Grandad who fought with the Lancashire Fusiliers in World War 1 and an uncle who got shot in WW11 and my wife’s Grandad who was given his last rites at El Alemain the likes of McClean wouldn’t now be in their privileged position of getting paid English Pounds to kick a football. I certainly didn’t agree with the Iraq war but when I was in the US at the time I stood up when the played the national anthem.

Errr... the club clearly don't insist on him wearing the poppy. So, your post is as irrelevant to the discussion as your Granddad's fight is to your opinion on individual freedom.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:36 pm

Marty Dobson wrote:Derry City play in the Airtricity league and many of their supporters support the Republic of Ireland team as do many nationalists in the North. His roots are not with the North. Clearly very proud of his Derry roots.

Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league and many of their fans support Wales... other than that great point

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:36 pm

Dy1geo wrote:The point that I was trying to make is that if the club insisted he wore a shirt with a poppy ...

But. They. Don't.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:49 pm

Does anyone know what the daft Irish tw-t tweeted?

Tribesmen · Post by **Tribesmen** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:53 pm

James and every year is groundhog day .
He was told to get off social media and he did for a while but he drops back in and it all starts over again for him .
Yer the Wigan bit was very good if you ever read it , but again it all gets lost I do feel for him but he has to keep out of it .
Very much loved here in Ireland but I think his day is done as not the player he used to be .

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:53 pm

Matic the next to bend the poppy

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:17 pm

Matic statement: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46099843" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:26 pm

Just seen a video of the abuse thrown at McLean and there is hardly a poppy in site. None of the abusers or ground staff, security staff etc. are wearing poppies, in fact I can't see a single person wearing a poppy. Utter hypocrisy

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:40 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:But. They. Don't.

I am aware that they don’t but what I am suggesting is that maybe it would be better that they had rather than have this each year.
Virtually everyone on the BBC at this time of year wears one and I would have it a as a guess that they are told to.
The poppy is a symbol of remembrance but unfortunately in my lifetime due to certain groups pushing an agenda it has become a political symbol.
To those that actively oppose wearing one I would like to hear their thoughts on those that gave their lives to now allow them to have their freedom of speech.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:44 pm

Dy1geo wrote:I am aware that they don’t but what I am suggesting is that maybe it would be better that they had rather than have this each year.
Virtually everyone on the BBC at this time of year wears one and I would have it a as a guess that they are told to.
The poppy is a symbol of remembrance but unfortunately in my lifetime due to certain groups pushing an agenda it has become a political symbol.
To those that actively oppose wearing one I would like to hear their thoughts on those that gave their lives to now allow them to have their freedom of speech.

You have just said that it has become a political symbol. That is why many dont wear them anymore. Also remeber when we fought against a people that demanded certain people wear certain symbols on their clothes......how is making a footballer wear a poppy on a shirt any different?

What should happen is no footballer should wear one. Its a game not a political conference.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:53 pm

Dy1geo wrote:I am aware that they don’t but what I am suggesting is that maybe it would be better that they had rather than have this each year.
Virtually everyone on the BBC at this time of year wears one and I would have it a as a guess that they are told to.
The poppy is a symbol of remembrance but unfortunately in my lifetime due to certain groups pushing an agenda it has become a political symbol.
To those that actively oppose wearing one I would like to hear their thoughts on those that gave their lives to now allow them to have their freedom of speech.

An employer cannot unilaterally change the terms of your employment contract and force an employee to wear a poppy - that’s all employers not just football.

The BBC don’t tell their employees to wear a poppy, even the newsreaders.

I donate about £1500 a year to various charities including ones helping ex forces but don’t feel the need to wear a poppy. How much do you give and why do you feel the need to show everyone you do? Was the concept of freedom of speech something that soldiers thought they were fighting for?

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:53 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:You have just said that it has become a political symbol. That is why many dont wear them anymore. Also remeber when we fought against a people that demanded certain people wear certain symbols on their clothes......how is making a footballer wear a poppy on a shirt any different?

What should happen is no footballer should wear one. Its a game not a political conference.

The point is it the wearing of a poppy shouldn’t be a political symbol it has been to want of a better word been hijacked as such, just like Union flag has been hijacked by the right.
It is a symbol of remembrance to those that paid the highest sacrifice and that is the message that should be shouted loudest.

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:58 pm

I donate about £1500 a year to various charities including ones helping ex forces but don’t feel the need to wear a poppy. How much do you give and why do you feel the need to show everyone you do? Was the concept of freedom of speech something that soldiers thought they were fighting for?[/quote]

It’s jack all about what someone gives. I personally wear one because as stated above my Grandad fought at Gallipoli and he told my Mum to wear the poppy with pride to respect those that died and my mum has passed it on to me.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:00 pm

Dy1geo wrote:I am aware that they don’t but what I am suggesting is that maybe it would be better that they had rather than have this each year.
Virtually everyone on the BBC at this time of year wears one and I would have it a as a guess that they are told to.
The poppy is a symbol of remembrance but unfortunately in my lifetime due to certain groups pushing an agenda it has become a political symbol.
To those that actively oppose wearing one I would like to hear their thoughts on those that gave their lives to now allow them to have their freedom of speech.

I would imagine a company forcing someone to wear a poppy would result in a lawsuit which the company would surely lose. Not to mention that forcing someone to wear one would be in contradiction with the supposed intended symbolism.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:25 pm

Can't believe I've just read the annual James McClean thread in it's entirety for the fourth year running, I never learn

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:32 pm

SammyBoy wrote:Can't believe I've just read the annual James McClean thread in it's entirety for the fourth year running, I never learn

You haven't read it in its entirety yet. He hates the west, don't you know? He's basically ISIS.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:27 pm

Top Claret wrote:Does anyone know what the daft Irish tw-t tweeted?

Yes.

most of it is fairly reasoned, if in somewhat base language. The majority of the stoke fans don't like him much as hes a **** footballer. However, they sort of Support what he said about block 19 as they are the lot bringing the club into disrepute with their abuse.

However, they are ****** off that he opened the tweet with a direct quote from bobby sands. Career suicide that bit.

The 'national anthem' is another thing and whilst fir the English it means (well you tell me). for others it is a symbol of English oppression, English rule by force etc etc made all the worse by the dicks who think it's clever to sing 'long to reign over you' when playing Scotland etc.

Anyhow, MacLean scored the goal which put Wales out of the last world cup. after he had upended Joe Allen and put him out of the game through injury. That's why we booed him in the 2 recent national league games. It has nothing to do with his poppy