Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Jakubclaret]

But how will it help. If there’s 800,000 job vacancies, presumably many low skilled, that are not being taken up, how will more job vacancies make a difference?

The vacancies need to be filled by offering a more attractive rate of pay offset with the expenditure a working man would require not afforded the luxury of lodgers/bunkmates or other people living within the house, don't think I've suggested more job vacancies let's try to fill the 800,000 first eh?

[CombatClaret]

I'm not asking people to have blind faith, just if it is happening, roll your sleeves up and get on with it. Sitting on your backside and crying about leaving the EU is not going to help anyone.
I'm looking forward to it, and I understand that a lot of people aren't, but we've all had to face set backs in our lives at some point. Wether it's redundancy, illness, recessions, you have to get on with it or give up. The remainers on here are so negative, they sound like they've given up already, and we haven't even got there yet.

Trouble is these are all bullsh1t words and platitudes meant to make people feel better after a great loss.
"Roll up your sleves"
"everyone has setbacks"
"It's always darkest before the dawn"
"Plenty more fish in the sea"
"Good things come to those who wait"
"Money can’t buy happiness"
etc etc etc

"I'm not asking people to have blind faith".. It sure as hell sounds like it given your lack of any evidence toward better times and an over reliance on cliches...

[martin_p]

The vacancies need to be filled by offering a more attractive rate of pay offset with the expenditure a working man would require not afforded the luxury of lodgers/bunkmates or other people living within the house, don't think I've suggested more job vacancies let's try to fill the 800,000 first eh?

But why do we need to lower immigration to make the jobs more attractive?

[Jakubclaret]

But why do we need to lower immigration to make the jobs more attractive?

Because the employer will always pay the bare minimum he/she can get away with, & somebody else in a different set of circumstances (eg living arrangements) will be unable to accept, I think you are being deliberately obtuse so I’m reluctant to engage further, Night.

[Greenmile]

I'll be a happy chappy if immigrants find Britain a less desirable place to come to, it will open more jobs to British citizens and young people without qualifications who can only do unskilled labour. When we leave the EU, we will be free to make trade agreements with countries such as China, Russia. Trump has offered a trade deal as we are close countries, the only countries who object to Brexit are European countries who will be missing out on our contributions. I think we should just leave and stop trying to half leave. Irish unification would make Brexit a lot smoother, just give it back, people have been saying this since the 70s.

Thanks for having a go, but your answer seems a bit short on facts and long on hopeful imagination. How will we get better trade agreements than the ones we already have through the EU? How would our negotiating power be increased by reducing the size of the bloc we are negotiating as? (I did say there may be follow up questions) The only way I can think of is by offering immigration visas in return, and something tells me that’s not an idea you would be a huge fan of.

And you do realise that if immigrants find Britain a less desirable place to come to that’s because it will be a less desirable place to live for me and you, don’t you? Unless you base desirability solely on the number of immigrants you see on a daily basis.

Finally, “just give (Northern Ireland) back” is one of the most glib and poorly thought through statements I’ve heard. “People have been saying this since the 70s” is true, but a few people have been saying the opposite, and both sides have historically been more entrenched in their positions than even you and I on Brexit.

[Greenmile]

No I should imagine want the youth of today want to be self sufficient & independently think I know a few who do, Regulations aren't a massive issue it's often overlooked & circumvented until there's a spike & the media get wind, watchdog ect then there's a few apologies, recalls in the UK & safety modifications, in the UK & China, then it carries on again, it's not a biggie for brexit.

You see, this is why I think you’re a xenophobe. You claim to be anti-immigration as immigrants depress the wages of unskilled workers (something which, as I’ve pointed out, can easily be resolved by our govt implementing and enforcing a better minimum wage), but you don’t give a toss about workplace regulations which keep those same low-paid workers safe in their jobs.

[martin_p]

Because the employer will always pay the bare minimum he/she can get away with, & somebody else in a different set of circumstances (eg living arrangements) will be unable to accept, I think you are being deliberately obtuse so I’m reluctant to engage further, Night.

No I’m not being obtuse. A job at minimum wage is still better than benefits, Universal Credit (for all its faults) has been designed that way.

[Greenmile]

No I’m not being obtuse. A job at minimum wage is still better than benefits, Universal Credit (for all its faults) has been designed that way.

I could be wrong, but I think Jakub thinks employers just ignore minimum wage regulations. I’m sure some do, but whose job is it to enforce these rules?

[Spiral]

Because the employer will always pay the bare minimum he/she can get away with, & somebody else in a different set of circumstances (eg living arrangements) will be unable to accept, I think you are being deliberately obtuse so I’m reluctant to engage further, Night.

Then enforce labour standards. I can't really blame employers for paying minimum wage because it's a market after all, but the 'indigenous' (shudder) will be exploited (apologies for the Marxist terminology) in spite of immigration levels if employment standards aren't properly enforced, real wage requirements aren't met and a roof is too expensive. You're dead right and completely justified in your concerns, but your solutions aren't solutions and you're blaming the wrong folk. By focusing on immigration you're letting rubbish employers and more importantly bad governments off the hook. You've mentioned living arrangements a few times now which also speaks to my own personal biggest political agenda - housing costs. The market (housing) has failed and it needs correcting (if the food market had failed in similar ways there'd be a revolution but farmers are subsided to their eyeballs to ensure that doesn't happen), but I'm not sure a rejection of globalism and a lurch towards isolationism (which is what brexit truly is) actually corrects that. I'm not being all hippy-dippy, hug an immigrant, here, it genuinely frustrates me that folk aren't looking at the true cause of the problem.

edit-last couple of posts have beaten me to this point!

[Jakubclaret]

Thanks for having a go, but your answer seems a bit short on facts and long on hopeful imagination. How will we get better trade agreements than the ones we already have through the EU? How would our negotiating power be increased by reducing the size of the bloc we are negotiating as? (I did say there may be follow up questions) The only way I can think of is by offering immigration visas in return, and something tells me that’s not an idea you would be a huge fan of.

And you do realise that if immigrants find Britain a less desirable place to come to that’s because it will be a less desirable place to live for me and you, don’t you? Unless you base desirability solely on the number of immigrants you see on a daily basis.

Finally, “just give (Northern Ireland) back” is one of the most glib and poorly thought through statements I’ve heard. “People have been saying this since the 70s” is true, but a few people have been saying the opposite, and both sides have historically been more entrenched in their positions than even you and I on Brexit.

Stop being a drama queen please, trade deals will still happen with the EU it’s as sure as eggs, we need to support ourselves domestically & stop being over reliant on outside labour, Ireland needs to be Ireland let ulster & Sinn Fein open dialogue without our involvement they are not children, just tried to bulletpoint I’m on a airport run in the morning, yes & I will no doubt reiterate this post at a later point in the event of amnesia.

[Spiral]

It's not just the trade deals with the EU we're concerned with, it's also those with the rest of the world we need to think about, both those which we need to renegotiate/attempt to roll over, and those future deals we'll be negotiating from a far weaker position than being in the EU by virtue of pure stone cold arithmetic.

And I suggest you read up a bit more on Irish politics.

[Greenmile]

Stop being a drama queen please, trade deals will still happen with the EU it’s as sure as eggs, we need to support ourselves domestically & stop being over reliant on outside labour, Ireland needs to be Ireland let ulster & Sinn Fein open dialogue without our involvement they are not children, just tried to bulletpoint I’m on a airport run in the morning, yes & I will no doubt reiterate this post at a later point in the event of amnesia.

It’s not an answer though. I asked how will Brexit make us better off, and your answer is, essentially, “we’ll be better off, and you’re a drama queen for disagreeing, (plus there will be less immigrants)”. How will these trade deals be achieved? How long will it take? What will we be offering / giving up in return? How do we reduce our reliance on outside (ie foreign) labour?

And your answer to the Irish question is basically to give the IRA what they waged a terrorist campaign for years to achieve. It’s a bit like solving the problem of ISIS by turning the UK into an Islamic caliphate.

[Jakubclaret]

It's not just the trade deals with the EU we're concerned with, it's also those with the rest of the world we need to think about, both those which we need to renegotiate/attempt to roll over, and those future deals we'll be negotiating from a far weaker position than being in the EU by virtue of pure stone cold arithmetic.

And I suggest you read up a bit more on Irish politics.

I’m knowledgeable about Irish politics & when brexit is implemented the call for reunification will be intensified.

[Spiral]

And you think loyalist paramilitaries are going to be sound with that?

The thing about a peace process is you try to respect the wishes of both sides.

[Jakubclaret]

It’s not an answer though. I asked how will Brexit make us better off, and your answer is, essentially, “we’ll be better off, and you’re a drama queen for disagreeing, (plus there will be less immigrants)”. How will these trade deals be achieved? How long will it take? What will we be offering / giving up in return? How do we reduce our reliance on outside (ie foreign) labour?

And your answer to the Irish question is basically to give the IRA what they waged a terrorist campaign for years to achieve. It’s a bit like solving the problem of ISIS by turning the UK into an Islamic caliphate.

Nobody knows because something has not been completed yet! You are asking me questions theresa may probably wouldn’t be able to answer but you expect to me to know the answers, I’ve got a reasonable fair idea of how things will pan out but I’m not certain, you seem hellbent on creating problems to situations which have not transpired & predicting doom about this that & the other at the drop of a hat, would it be more sensible to wait & judge & then make a assessment accordingly.

[Rowls]

So here we are guys....

20 pages of guff and nonsense.

All because some girl got her muff out and spouted the same old stuff about Brexit.

Bring on 29th March and the coming years so we can judge it objectively.

It is neither brilliant or bad in itself. Brexit is what we make of it.

[Spiral]

Yeah, mate. We had a brexit 20 pager because of a bird's minge. It's all so simple and obvious now that you say it. Nowt to do with the importance of the issue or owt.

Congratulations on the assist, by the way. No chance she'd have found notoriety on this site were it not for your indignation.

[nil_desperandum]

Ireland needs to be Ireland let ulster & Sinn Fein open dialogue without our involvement they are not children, just tried to bulletpoint I’m on a airport run in the morning, yes & I will no doubt reiterate this post at a later point in the event of amnesia.

Once you distort history and the reality of the current political / international situation to this extent then there's no point continuing the debate.
Centuries of history link us politically and constitutionally to Ireland. N Ireland is as much a part of the UK as Lancashire, and its single largest party the DUP actually run our government at present. So whether you like it or not, or whether or not it suits your agenda, we're very much involved in Ireland, (and I speak as one who is broadly sympathetic to a united Ireland, and definitely no fan of the DUP / loyalist agenda).

[nil_desperandum]

Yeah, mate. We had a brexit 20 pager because of a bird's minge. It's all so simple and obvious now that you say it. Nowt to do with the importance of the issue or owt.
.

Indeed. I would suggest that this extremely bright and knowledgeable lady (agree with her or not) knows exactly what she is doing and has provoked heated debate on hundreds of forums such as this throughout the country.
Almost 1,000 posts on here now thanks to Rowls interest in her anatomy. Multiply that by all the other threads about her on other sites, and she's achieving what she set out to do.

[TVC15]

Stop being a drama queen please, trade deals will still happen with the EU it’s as sure as eggs, we need to support ourselves domestically & stop being over reliant on outside labour, Ireland needs to be Ireland let ulster & Sinn Fein open dialogue without our involvement they are not children, just tried to bulletpoint I’m on a airport run in the morning, yes & I will no doubt reiterate this post at a later point in the event of amnesia.

Simples !
Why did nobody think of this ?
Now shake hands, say sorry and get on with it and stop being such a bunch of silly billies.

[Jakubclaret]

Once you distort history and the reality of the current political / international situation to this extent then there's no point continuing the debate.
Centuries of history link us politically and constitutionally to Ireland. N Ireland is as much a part of the UK as Lancashire, and its single largest party the DUP actually run our government at present. So whether you like it or not, or whether or not it suits your agenda, we're very much involved in Ireland, (and I speak as one who is broadly sympathetic to a united Ireland, and definitely no fan of the DUP / loyalist agenda).

Yes I agree , I'm well aware of the politically & constitutionally connections, sentiment aside there comes a time in life when you need to re-evaluate certain relationships when something else comes along & question is it really worth continuing with it, you seem adverse to any kind of change, plenty like you who refuse to move with the times & are unable to adapt to ever changing political landscape.

[Colburn_Claret]

Trouble is these are all bullsh1t words and platitudes meant to make people feel better after a great loss.
"Roll up your sleves"
"everyone has setbacks"
"It's always darkest before the dawn"
"Plenty more fish in the sea"
"Good things come to those who wait"
"Money can’t buy happiness"
etc etc etc

"I'm not asking people to have blind faith".. It sure as hell sounds like it given your lack of any evidence toward better times and an over reliance on cliches...

It's not bullshit, it's a philosophy on life and how to survive it.
**** all to do with Brexit.
But if you go through life expecting it to he ****, IT WILL BE.
When you only look on the negative guess what, you only see the negative.
There is no point getting angry about things beyond your control, you just step back, look at it, and decide how you go forward.
Maybe I'm lucky, but being positive about life does change it for the better, and brings you stress levels down to where you might see retirement

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Yes I agree , I'm well aware of the politically & constitutionally connections, sentiment aside there comes a time in life when you need to re-evaluate certain relationships when something else comes along & question is it really worth continuing with it, you seem adverse to any kind of change, plenty like you who refuse to move with the times & are unable to adapt to ever changing political landscape.

That something else is a free trade agreement with the US where their private organisations will replace the National Health System, The Post Office etc. Britain will have to make concessions on standards, especially in food, agriculture, pharmaceuticals and other goods, limits on pesticide residues and hormone-disrupting chemicals in food, nutritional labelling, the use of genetically modified organisms, the export of animal byproducts including some specified risk material for BSE, food additives such as flavourings that the EU has banned because of concerns over safety, hygiene rules including chlorine treatments on poultry and other meats, and animal-rearing standards such as the use of growth-promoting chemicals in pork and hormones in beef production.
The target is the EU that signs up to climate agreements, is prepared to consider a financial transaction tax, is chasing down corporate tax dodgers, challenging monopoly control, and is a threat to tech giants, hedge funds, wealth managers and fossil fuel barons – especially in the US.

[JohnMcGreal]

Brexit is what we make of it.

The government has just cancelled a £14 million contract with a ferry company that has no ferries, so the smart money says we'll make a dog's breakfast of it.

It is neither brilliant or bad in itself.

Brexit is fundamentally flawed and no matter how you try and limit the damage and make the best of a bad situation, you have to ask why we've decided to put ourselves in a bad situation in the first place.

[Rowls]

Yeah, mate. We had a brexit 20 pager because of a bird's minge. It's all so simple and obvious now that you say it. Nowt to do with the importance of the issue or owt.

Congratulations on the assist, by the way. No chance she'd have found notoriety on this site were it not for your indignation.

Oh no!

I've "accidentally" made Dr. Victoria Bateman more notorious on our website than she might otherwise have been! Hoist by my own petard!

Zounds!

[Rowls]

Brexit latest....

New song, "You Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone" by EU Supergirl!

https://twitter.com/MadeleinaKay/status ... 0668779520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(No, it's not Joni Mitchell)

[Lancasterclaret]

Top deflecting Rowls.

Course, that does mean it was another bad week for Brexit backers.

[Paul Waine]

Top deflecting Rowls.

Course, that does mean it was another bad week for Brexit backers.

Hi Lancs, are you saying that it was a good week for the remain crowd?

Or, just "bad week" all round - except for those who were at the Amex.

[Lancasterclaret]

Just making sure that Rowls knows he's been sussed Paul.

There are no good weekends for Brexit at the moment as we are heading towards a "No Deal" scenario that is completely unprecedented, and far too many people who want Brexit assume it will be fine, and if its based on the contributions on here, because they don't want to know exactly how it will affect us.

And its not good for a deal either, because its clear that May is not prepared to accept that her deal won't get through the H of C, and Corbyn is not a figure that moderates can back as he's too divisive. I'll make a lone call for "but what about the country?" but I don't think enough of either Lab or Con are listening.

[martin_p]

May has now formally rejected Corbyn's customs union compromise plan, so we're heading for no deal or the delay/cancellation of Article 50. May seems completely pig headed about the whole thing and seems to want to drive us over that no deal cliff, no doubt saying 'if you'd voted for my deal this wouldn't have happened, so it's not my fault'. Let's hope if it does she at least has the good grace to resign, or call an election.

[DCWat]

“I'll make a lone call for "but what about the country?" but I don't think enough of either Lab or Con are listening.”

The worst thing with the whole farce or Brexit (whichever side one sits on) for me at least, is that what is best for the country appears to be a secondary consideration at best.

It sums up politics in this country that the primary focus is preventing splits in parties and thoughts on who / which party can come out of all this in power.

Our political elite are a shambles.

[CrosspoolClarets]

60 page PowerPoint explaining the Withdrawal Agreement on the EU website. Just released.

It makes it a lot easier to spot the bits to like and the bits not to like (it is written by Barnier’s team of course so needs that bearing in mind).

In particular, the section on Ireland starting on slide 44 makes it easy to work out which bits of the backstop are putting people off it.

My first impressions - there is a lot in the whole thing that seems an unnecessary capitulation, given that we have £39bn in our pocket, are a net importer, and are a place where EU citizens desire to settle, but I the Ireland thing is in many places completely unacceptable because we have to have control of our own customs arrangements or it isn’t worth leaving.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... lained.pdf

[Lancasterclaret]

Well, its not like your position has changed since Day 1 is it Crosspool!

All I would say to that is

"Where is the UKs version of that?"*

*we haven't got one, because we are woefully unprepared for this, or if we have, because it might show how hopeless/how pointless/how damaging this whole thing is we can't risk showing it to the public.

[martin_p]

we have to have control of our own customs arrangements or it isn’t worth leaving.

If you remove the first eleven words from that sentence you're spot on!

[CrosspoolClarets]

Well, its not like your position has changed since Day 1 is it Crosspool!

All I would say to that is

"Where is the UKs version of that?"*

*we haven't got one, because we are woefully unprepared for this, or if we have, because it might show how hopeless/how pointless/how damaging this whole thing is we can't risk showing it to the public.

Certainly I would agree with that until the second half of the last sentence, which turns into “full on Lancaster”.

My position has definitely not changed - the day after setting out her red lines in Lancaster House she should have insisted we would have a deep free trade agreement with a gradual withdrawal to it over 5-10 years if necessary, a bit at a time. We would then negotiate paid access to things like research and Europol during this period, no cliff edge, all gradual, and it would probably have been accepted by 75% of people, other than the extreme Brexiteers or Remainers.

In the absence of her doing that, I would sign off her deal as long as it has no risk of a permenant Customs Union, an economic disaster for my children and grandchildren, rather than a short term wobble we would get over.

[Lancasterclaret]

"wobble"

A strange word to use for a "self inflicted recession" it has to be said.

And you can call it "full on Lancaster" if you want, it doesn't change the fact that we are not ready in anyway for a "No Deal" so that should not even be considered as an option.

[martin_p]

Certainly I would agree with that until the second half of the last sentence, which turns into “full on Lancaster”.

My position has definitely not changed - the day after setting out her red lines in Lancaster House she should have insisted we would have a deep free trade agreement with a gradual withdrawal to it over 5-10 years if necessary, a bit at a time. We would then negotiate paid access to things like research and Europol during this period, no cliff edge, all gradual, and it would probably have been accepted by 75% of people, other than the extreme Brexiteers or Remainers.

In the absence of her doing that, I would sign off her deal as long as it has no risk of a permenant Customs Union, an economic disaster for my children and grandchildren, rather than a short term wobble we would get over.

This 'wobble' as you call it, could be as bad as the 2008 financial crisis according to some. That 'wobble' is one we still haven't recovered from. It you add on another 'wobble' we could be looking at a period of 20+ years of wobbling (starting from 2008), which for those of us unfortunate enough to be working during those 20+ years will be half our working lives. Even if we weren't just starting to recover from a financial crisis this would be bad, but when you put them back to back it'll be very significant for many.

[Darthlaw]

This 'wobble' as you out it, could be as bad as the 2008 financial crisis according to some. That 'wobble' is one we still haven't recovered from. It you add on another 'wobble' we could be looking at a period of 20+ years of wobbling (starting from 2008), which for those of us unfortunate enough to be working during those 20+ years will be half our working lives. Even if we weren't just starting to recover from a financial crisis this would be bad, but when you put them back to back it'll be very significant for many.

'According to some' & 'we could be looking at a period of 20+ years of wobbling'
I'm just going to leave this here from HM Treasury economic analysis 2016

fear.png (53.13 KiB) Viewed 2073 times

[martin_p]

Ah, the old 'a prediction was wrong, so all predictions are wrong' argument!

[Darthlaw]

As opposed to 'I know the last one was wrong, but this one is definitely right' attitude.

Interesting point of view, that.

[martin_p]

As opposed to 'I know the last one was wrong, but this one is definitely right' attitude.

Interesting point of view, that.

Well if you can point out where I said it was definitely right that'd be useful for a start. But the difference with the predictions now are we at least have some actuals to plug into economic forecast models. So, if we have 'no deal' we know the terms on which we'll be trading for example (i.e. WTO) and a whole host of EU related things we'll no longer have access to. I'm prepared to buy the 'project fear' theory on lots on the post referendum predictions as essentially nothing was immediately going to change. This time it's different.

[Mala591]

I wonder how much Theresa will offer Julie Cooper to 'persuade her to support her Brexit deal' ?

Thank you Theresa. £20 million would be very welcome for investment in Burnley and Padiham.

[Darthlaw]

Well if you can point out where I said it was definitely right that'd be useful for a start.

Ah, lets turn this into a semantics debate. Very original for this thread. I'll bite:
'This 'wobble' as you out it, could be as bad as the 2008 financial crisis according to some.'
Not a 'definitely right', but the remaining paragraph painted a very dismal future all based upon if's, maybe's and could's.

I'm prepared to buy the 'project fear' theory on lots on the post referendum predictions as essentially nothing was immediately going to change. This time it's different.

The big red arrow pointing to predictions purely on a leave vote, suggests otherwise.

More to the point, if you truly believe that whatever is plugged in to forecast models now, you should purchase plenty of EURO's ready for when sterling comes crashing down. Sell your house too (whilst it's still worth something) and buy EURO's with it, eh? You'll make plenty of money and probably be able to buy another outright!

Alternatively, you could take on the likelihood that it's neither going to be Armageddon or the Land of Milk and Honey, but somewhere in between.

[martin_p]

Ah, lets turn this into a semantics debate. Very original for this thread. I'll bite:
'This 'wobble' as you out it, could be as bad as the 2008 financial crisis according to some.'
Not a 'definitely right', but the remaining paragraph painted a very dismal future all based upon if's, maybe's and could's.



The big red arrow pointing to predictions purely on a leave vote, suggests otherwise.

More to the point, if you truly believe that whatever is plugged in to forecast models now, you should purchase plenty of EURO's ready for when sterling comes crashing down. Sell your house too (whilst it's still worth something) and buy EURO's with it, eh? You'll make plenty of money and probably be able to buy another outright!

Alternatively, you could take on the likelihood that it's neither going to be Armageddon or the Land of Milk and Honey, but somewhere in between.

You call it semantics, I call it writing what I actually mean, hence the use of the word 'could'.

And i suspect that people who have money to spare will be doing exactly those sorts of things you suggest. Personally, like most of the population, I don't have any spare cash to be splashing around buying currency and sort of need my house to live in. Could it be that this whole thing has been engineered by the rich just for them to make more money? Surely salts of the earth, men of the people, barely two ha'pennies to rub together types like Jacob Rees-Mogg and Aaron Banks wouldn't be thinking that!

[Darthlaw]

If you're convinced, sell your house and rent whilst the fallout occurs. Stick the money into EURO's and wait for Sterling to take a nosedive. You can create spare cash quite easily if you're so sure it's going to happen. Avoid the pint or cup of coffee every day and put it into Euro's, same with SKY and the mobile phone contracts, you're going to need it in the Mad Max style UK when 'No deal' Brexit happens.

Otherwise, you could warn all and sundry on a message board and wag your finger at the rich, as it's their fault you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Some interesting comments from focus groups this week during the Parliamentary hiatus.

Two things I take from it is that most people think the Irish backstop is a convenience rather than a necessity and that neither Leavers nor Remainers want to extend Aricle 50. I was in a group of around 30 Leavers and Remainers (mainly the latter) yesterday and most comments reflected those in this article.

https://www.conservativehome.com/highli ... roups.html

[martin_p]

If you're convinced, sell your house and rent whilst the fallout occurs. Stick the money into EURO's and wait for Sterling to take a nosedive. You can create spare cash quite easily if you're so sure it's going to happen. Avoid the pint or cup of coffee every day and put it into Euro's, same with SKY and the mobile phone contracts, you're going to need it in the Mad Max style UK when 'No deal' Brexit happens.

Otherwise, you could warn all and sundry on a message board and wag your finger at the rich, as it's their fault you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is.

You must be one of the well off if you think people 'can create spare cash quite easily'. If I were to sell my house I suppose my mortgage provider would be more than happy for me not to pay off the outstanding amount? And of course it's much cheaper to have a mortgage than to pay rent, so there'd be no net gains anyway. As ever, easy answers not thought through.

By the way, I suppose you've got all the evidence to say which bits of those econimic forecats from 2016 you posted are wrong? What's 'the base level' it's being measured against for eaxmple?

[Darthlaw]

Martin - I'm sure you're brighter than this but I'll explain it simply for you:

IF you are so convinced of impending crash / recession / armageddon then you sell your house, pay off your mortgage lender and then invest any remaining equity into EURO's. Normally, renting would be more expensive, however given you have 'got out' at the right time you will very quickly be able to not only leverage cheaper housing (house price crash) plus the additional money you have made from the Sterling crash to repurchase a better home than your original one.

As for the evidence of the forecasts which are wrong, lets see you prove where they were correct? Start with unemployment for example.

[Lancasterclaret]

its a bit mental (assuming you are serious) to ask someone to sell their house to make money out of it.

Its almost as mental as pretending that you can rip up forty years of integration in pretty much everything in two years when you don't do anything about for 22 months of it.

[martin_p]

Martin - I'm sure you're brighter than this but I'll explain it simply for you:

IF you are so convinced of impending crash / recession / armageddon then you sell your house, pay off your mortgage lender and then invest any remaining equity into EURO's. Normally, renting would be more expensive, however given you have 'got out' at the right time you will very quickly be able to not only leverage cheaper housing (house price crash) plus the additional money you have made from the Sterling crash to repurchase a better home than your original one.

As for the evidence of the forecasts which are wrong, lets see you prove where they were correct? Start with unemployment for example.

Again, this is Brexiteer 101. Post something and when someone asks for some proof put the onus on the other person to disprove. I'm not doing the work, you posted the bleeding thing, I assumed you understood it and hadn't just picked it up off some website without giving a moments thought as to what it meant!

And as for your supposition that I'm convinced of some sort of armegeddon (the inflammatory language is yours - again Brexit 101), Again, where I have said that. Now I'm sure you're brighter than this but I'll explain again. I just pointed out that someone who said we might have a 'wobble' (yes, even a Brexiteer is admitting that) that according to some forecast that could be as bad as the wobble we've just had and will mean 20 years of austerity effectively. On balance it's more likely to be in the region of accurate than post referendum predictions as we have more info (or are you unwilling to even accept that?). The majority of economic assessments agree that we'll take a hit of some size, add that hit onto the austerity of the last ten years and it's a large part of an individuals working life when they can make little progress. So why are we taking such a huge risk with our future?