Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Spijed]

I see Tommy Robinson has had his face book page removed. What will people now do with all their pitchforks?

[summitclaret]

As others have pointed out today's announcement represents abandoning the game of chicken with the EU and strengthening her hand in the game of chicken with the ERG. If the ERG continue to reject May's deal (which the have been doing in the hope of getting a 'no deal' Brexit) then Brexit will be delayed, increasing the chances of their being no Brexit at all.

That said, it could also be a way of blaming the EU in the event of no deal. As it stands there are a lot of EU members who won't be keen on an extension unless it's likely to yield something new and isn't just another can kicking exercise. So unless May can offer the prospect of something new it may well be that the EU won't let us have a short extension, even if parliament wants one. If that's the case it'll either be a no deal Brexit with the finger pointed at the EU or taking the only way we can stop a no deal Brexit, which is unilaterally withdrawing article 50.

Edit - others have made the same point while I was typing.

If we end up being desperate and having to request an extension and the EU refuse and we have to revoke A50
, then that might actually be a decent outcome. We then have proof that the EU are the bastards we thought they were.

We could then invoke again and say you have 2 years to give us a good trade deal or we are leaving. Plenty of time for all to prepare and it will all be sorted much faster than it would under May's deal. With the latter we would be arguing for years and get stuck in the backtrap.

[Jakubclaret]

Marty. Asking the same question again and again simply because you don't like the answer you receive will not change that answer if you continue to ask it again and again.

"Massive cross-party consensus"

Remoaner speak for " we're all working tirelessly, regardless of party, to stop Brexit and help to save those uneducated plebs from themselves"

It’s easier to copy & paste with some people it can save time repeating what you’ve already said.

[summitclaret]

We now have normally reasonable sensible Labour mp hillary benn saying it should be a second referendum between May's deal and remain. What have we come to when democracy is being thrown out?

[aggi]

UKIP won the last elections.

They got about a quarter of the votes and a third of the seats (in an election with a pretty low turnout).

Although I was amazed that the undemocratic EU had elections at all.

[AndyClaret]

None whatsoever!

The only solid thing at the moment is we leave on March 29th.

If everything is exhausted (ie Mays deal fails, No deal vote fails, extension fails) before then that would be the next logical step to stop us leaving with a "No Deal"

So you made a statement that you can't back up with facts, exactly what you wrongly accused me of doing.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I see Tommy Robinson has had his face book page removed. What will people now do with all their pitchforks?

Moffitt will be emptying his piggy bank again and sending it all to him.

[Lancasterclaret]

You'll be able to spot the difference straight away if you look Andy.

I know its not provable by evidence, so I said so.

And then I used reason and logic to explain why I came to that conclusion.

You just flat out came out with an untrue statement, which you still haven't retracted.

[AndyClaret]

You'll be able to spot the difference straight away if you look Andy.

I know its not provable by evidence, so I said so.

And then I used reason and logic to explain why I came to that conclusion.

You just flat out came out with an untrue statement, which you still haven't retracted.

What have i said that is untrue ?

[Devils_Advocate]

This thread has right cheered me up after a crappy day at work. Seeing all the brainless numpties lose their sh*t whilst their Brexit fantasy slowly disappears is great fun and can only see it getting better and better day by day

[Pstotto]

We are being swamped by peoples with values foreign to ours and that are undermining our country. There are countries coming to the fore that don't have our nor the world's best interests at heart.e.g. China and India the world's biggest polluters going headlong to a world disaster of climatastrophy and caring not as they plastic the oceans.

Brexit is the calling of the developed world to man-up and reverse trends.

The irresponsibility of the EU is clarified in that the would accept the Irish Backstop as a viable alternative to national security, indeed our own government and neighbours PLUS the anti-democratic second-referendum mandate.

[Billy Balfour]

I voted Brexit to make China and India cutdown on their polluting.

[Pstotto]

Well somebody had to put the finger in the dyke... Thank you Billy!

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

No deal government papers published

Grim reading

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 7324854272" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yet nobody on this board cares to discuss them, it's all "we voted to leave so we have to leave or it's a betrayal of democracy blah blah bullsh1t".

And now Labour are apparently betraying their manifesto by backing a second vote, anybody would think they'd WRITTEN IT ON THE SIDE OF A BUS.

But look, from the government's own impact reports:



No Deal would mean “Eu would introduce tariffs of around 70% on beef and 45% on lamb exports [ie from UK] and 10% on cars - ie WTO MFN tariffs.

"There is little evidence that businesses are preparing in earnest for a no deal scenario, and evidence indicates that readiness of small and medium-sized enterprises in particular is low”

"After 15 years the economies of the NE of England will be 10.5% smaller, Scotland -8% and NI -9% than if the UK exits the EU with no-deal and a ‘smooth & orderly’ transition to WTO rules."

200,000 businesses (83%) that require customs registration number (EORI) for No Deal who never required them under EU customs-free trading arrangements do not have them - only 1/6 have them - very serious.

Full Schengen checks on third country nationals would mean Brits would not be able to use e-gates in No deal, says report

Food prices likely to increase, risk of consumer behaviour exacerbating or creating shortages... as of this month many businesses in food supply industry unprepared for no deal

Conclusion: basically, the Government is not ready for No Deal, and businesses and individuals are even less ready, and there is not enough time now before March 29th “to unilaterally mitigate the effects”

"The admin burden on businesses from customs declarations alone could amount to 13 billion per annum."

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

You won't be fixing anything then

I'll be voting remain in a second referendum so actually I will, literally, be the intelligent fixing the mistakes of the stupid.

[martin_p]

Yet nobody on this board cares to discuss them, it's all "we voted to leave so we have to leave or it's a betrayal of democracy blah blah bullsh1t".

And now Labour are apparently betraying their manifesto by backing a second vote, anybody would think they'd WRITTEN IT ON THE SIDE OF A BUS.

But look, from the government's own impact reports:



No Deal would mean “Eu would introduce tariffs of around 70% on beef and 45% on lamb exports [ie from UK] and 10% on cars - ie WTO MFN tariffs.

"There is little evidence that businesses are preparing in earnest for a no deal scenario, and evidence indicates that readiness of small and medium-sized enterprises in particular is low”

"After 15 years the economies of the NE of England will be 10.5% smaller, Scotland -8% and NI -9% than if the UK exits the EU with no-deal and a ‘smooth & orderly’ transition to WTO rules."

200,000 businesses (83%) that require customs registration number (EORI) for No Deal who never required them under EU customs-free trading arrangements do not have them - only 1/6 have them - very serious.

Full Schengen checks on third country nationals would mean Brits would not be able to use e-gates in No deal, says report

Food prices likely to increase, risk of consumer behaviour exacerbating or creating shortages... as of this month many businesses in food supply industry unprepared for no deal

Conclusion: basically, the Government is not ready for No Deal, and businesses and individuals are even less ready, and there is not enough time now before March 29th “to unilaterally mitigate the effects”

"The admin burden on businesses from customs declarations alone could amount to 13 billion per annum."

Project Fear! We’re British, we’ll be ok. All you have to do is believe!

[Jakubclaret]

Yet nobody on this board cares to discuss them, it's all "we voted to leave so we have to leave or it's a betrayal of democracy blah blah bullsh1t".

And now Labour are apparently betraying their manifesto by backing a second vote, anybody would think they'd WRITTEN IT ON THE SIDE OF A BUS.

But look, from the government's own impact reports:



No Deal would mean “Eu would introduce tariffs of around 70% on beef and 45% on lamb exports [ie from UK] and 10% on cars - ie WTO MFN tariffs.

"There is little evidence that businesses are preparing in earnest for a no deal scenario, and evidence indicates that readiness of small and medium-sized enterprises in particular is low”

"After 15 years the economies of the NE of England will be 10.5% smaller, Scotland -8% and NI -9% than if the UK exits the EU with no-deal and a ‘smooth & orderly’ transition to WTO rules."

200,000 businesses (83%) that require customs registration number (EORI) for No Deal who never required them under EU customs-free trading arrangements do not have them - only 1/6 have them - very serious.

Full Schengen checks on third country nationals would mean Brits would not be able to use e-gates in No deal, says report

Food prices likely to increase, risk of consumer behaviour exacerbating or creating shortages... as of this month many businesses in food supply industry unprepared for no deal

Conclusion: basically, the Government is not ready for No Deal, and businesses and individuals are even less ready, and there is not enough time now before March 29th “to unilaterally mitigate the effects”

"The admin burden on businesses from customs declarations alone could amount to 13 billion per annum."

It's not a case of people not believing or betrayals of democracy, everybody is an individual & individuals have different circumstances & beliefs there will fervently follow & somebody who claims the intelligent will correct the mistakes of the stupid isn't probably the best example to convert if that's the idea, lots of things you have listed doesn't really impact upon working class people as they have survival strategies the "intelligent" wouldn't understand. The poorer people will always unite & survive whatever, the marks & spencers class with shiny cars wouldn't be able to understand.

[SmudgetheClaret]

I’m just curious we keep hearing that leavers know so much more than they did on the largest democratic vote in uk history ! I wonder if remainers could list them for us ?

[nil_desperandum]

I’m just curious we keep hearing that leavers know so much more than they did on the largest democratic vote in uk history ! I wonder if remainers could list them for us ?

Not got much time, and it would be a pretty extensive list, but for starters:
For those who have cared to read, listen and learn, they now know:
The NHS won't be getting £350 million a week
They now know: that there never was £350 million net, more like £150 million
They now know: much more about the Belfast agreement
They now know: that (leaving aside all EU issues) B Johnson is a proven liar and untrustworthy. (+ as they always probably suspected incompetent)
They now know : that contrary to what the likes of Davis and Fox were saying leaving the EU and getting good deals is not the easiest thing ever (or words to that effect)
They now know: that the country is almost irretrievably split between young and old
They now know: what a customs union is and how leaving it will impact on borders and ports
e.g. One significant leaver, (Dominic Raab) now knows that Dover is an important port!
They now know: that travelling abroad in the EU is much more expensive and likely to become more so, and if no deal is made over the EHIC card then Travel insurance premiums will rocket
They now know (or at least in many cases suspect): that leaving the EU will have very little effect on immigration, because a) most of our immigration is now from outside the EU and b) if the govt. wanted to crack down on immigration it would have already used its powers
They now know: that the EU can't give us a better deal outside the EU than those countries who remain and pay into it.
And importantly they now know that contrary to what most of the leading brexiteers said leading up to the vote, we might leave with a catastrophic no deal. (It was Farage himself that said that the Norway model could be a good thing, and many voted expecting a quick deal of this type).
That's just a quick list without giving it much thought. I've no doubt missed some significant others.

[Jakubclaret]

Not got much time, and it would be a pretty extensive list, but for starters:
For those who have cared to read, listen and learn, they now know:
The NHS won't be getting £350 million a week
They now know: that there never was £350 million net, more like £150 million
They now know: much more about the Belfast agreement
They now know: that (leaving aside all EU issues) B Johnson is a proven liar and untrustworthy. (+ as they always probably suspected incompetent)
They now know : that contrary to what the likes of Davis and Fox were saying leaving the EU and getting good deals is not the easiest thing ever (or words to that effect)
They now know: that the country is almost irretrievably split between young and old
They now know: what a customs union is and how leaving it will impact on borders and ports
e.g. One significant leaver, (Dominic Raab) now knows that Dover is an important port!
They now know: that travelling abroad in the EU is much more expensive and likely to become more so, and if no deal is made over the EHIC card then Travel insurance premiums will rocket
They now know (or at least in many cases suspect): that leaving the EU will have very little effect on immigration, because a) most of our immigration is now from outside the EU and b) if the govt. wanted to crack down on immigration it would have already used its powers
They now know: that the EU can't give us a better deal outside the EU than those countries who remain and pay into it.
And importantly they now know that contrary to what most of the leading brexiteers said leading up to the vote, we might leave with a catastrophic no deal. (It was Farage himself that said that the Norway model could be a good thing, and many voted expecting a quick deal of this type).
That's just a quick list without giving it much thought. I've no doubt missed some significant others.

Won't mean nothing for the poorest people in the country, people on the breadline want less immigration & how can the government crack down on immigration when 1 of EU freedoms is movement of labour it benefits the government exploiting cheap labour, it's absolutely impossible that remaining in the EU will benefit the poorest in society, the poorest aren't bothered about restrictions moving about the EU they struggle to cobble up the bus fare to the nearest town.

[nil_desperandum]

Won't mean nothing for the poorest people in the country, people on the breadline want less immigration & how can the government crack down on immigration when 1 of EU freedoms is movement of labour it benefits the government exploiting cheap labour, it's absolutely impossible that remaining in the EU will benefit the poorest in society, the poorest aren't bothered about restrictions moving about the EU they struggle to cobble up the bus fare to the nearest town.

So it's a really simple question.
How will making them poorer, and further reducing services / benefits help their situation?
And more specifically, (and it's a point that's been made over and again): why would the UK govt. suddenly start to change its attitude to low pay, the poorest in society and exploitation of workers? Only our govt can address this. It's not the EU that fails to protect the low paid in our country.

[aggi]

You see the thing is that Jakubclaret doesn't really understand the global position we're in now. He doesn't appreciate that his "working class" (whoever they may be) work for multinationals, have mortgages or rent payments, get the majority of their food, clothes, furniture, etc from abroad and the rest of it.

He thinks you can batten down the hatches and all this foreign stuff won't impact on him. You can just end ties with your closest trading partners and 100s of other trading agreements at a stroke and magically the UK will be able to supply everything at the same price. After all, if you don't go on foreign holidays then Europe doesn't matter.

The world's changed and not everyone has changed with it (and want to drag us backwards with them).

[Jakubclaret]

I disagree there it's a symptom to a problem, you can force change by doing things differently, people seem to pass the buck to the government instead of looking at the obligations towards the EU, people cannot access benefits (some) less immigration will present more job opportunities, some people are already on the rock bottom they cannot get any worse, the government HAS to change it's stance without the reliance on so much outside labour. In response to ND,

[RingoMcCartney]

1. The bill was introduced to the House of Commons by Philip Hammond, Foreign Secretary on 28 May 2015.[3] The Act was subsequently passed by 316-53 votes (a turnout of 58.5%) on its third reading in the Commons on 7 September 2015 - how many Labour MPs voted for the referendum???

2. Labour ACCEPTS the result- where in their manifesto does it use the word “respect”?

3. Where is your evidence for this future event?? Lol

4. The majority of Labour MPs are against no deal ergo they didn’t consider all the consequences when they voted to trigger Article 50

Nice try Ringo but, as always, it’s your attention to detail that lets you down.

Oh dear. If you're going to try a lecture somebody of detail, make sure you get your detail correct first.

I said

1 I asked did the vast majority of labour MPs vote to have an eu referendum

Yes or no?

You said "no" and based you extremely selective information on a THIRD READING, which took place on the 7th of September 2015. When it was a formality after parliament had previously overwhelmingly voted for a referendum. Why did you choose to omit this far more important ground breaking vote on June 9th 2015?

As reported by the BBC -

"MPs have OVERWHELMINGLY backed plans for a referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union.

The vote, which followed the first debate on the EU Referendum Bill, means the legislation moves to the next stage of its progress through Parliament.

Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said a "generation" had been denied a say on the UK's place in Europe, and the public must now have the "final say".

MPs voted by 544 to 53 (nearly all SNP) in favour of the bill."

THAT'S 544 TO 53 Burnley not so Ace!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33067157" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I correctly said, "the vast majority of labour MPs voted to have an eu referendum."

I then asked

2. Did all Labour MPs stand on an manifesto pledge to respect the referendum ? 

Yes Or no.?

And you want to dance on pin head while simultaneously splitting hairs about the phrase "respecting" or "accepting" the referendum and continue to look ridiculous, that's fine by me. Either way they pledged to leave the European. And this turn around from their manifesto pledge is why they've been accused of betrayal and why many of their MPs in Northern Leave voting constituencies like John Mann are justifiably, insensed that it may see labour lose seats in its former heartlands.

I asked-

3. Did the vast majority of labour MPs vote to trigger article 50. WHICH MEANS, IN LAW, WE LEAVE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE HAVE A DEAL OR NO DEAL?

Yes or no?

You agreed. But now give a bizarre answer mentioning "where's the evidence of a future event?" We are towards the end of a process that was started by the the triggering of article 50. Fact.

But you saved your best till last. You really did.

I asked -

4 When the vast majority of labour MPs voted to trigger article 50. Did they know what they were voting for? 

Yes or no?

You answered "no" because "they didn’t consider all the consequences when they voted to trigger Article 50".!!!

As though that somehow mitigates them from now being seen as duplicitous, forked tongued, "Leave in the north. Remain in london", untrustworthy charlatans. But demonstrates what a bunch of incompetent, not fit for purpose, hapless clowns you're happy to vote for!! They clearly didn't bother with the details did they!?

Just like your good self.........

[martin_p]

Oh dear. If you're going to try a lecture somebody of detail, make sure you get your detail correct first.

I said

1 I asked did the vast majority of labour MPs vote to have an eu referendum

Yes or no?

You said "no" and based you extremely selective information on a THIRD READING, which took place on the 7th of September 2015. When it was a formality after parliament had previously overwhelmingly voted for a referendum. Why did you choose to omit this far more important ground breaking vote on June 9th 2015?

As reported by the BBC -

"MPs have OVERWHELMINGLY backed plans for a referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union.

The vote, which followed the first debate on the EU Referendum Bill, means the legislation moves to the next stage of its progress through Parliament.

Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said a "generation" had been denied a say on the UK's place in Europe, and the public must now have the "final say".

MPs voted by 544 to 53 (nearly all SNP) in favour of the bill."

THAT'S 544 TO 53 Burnley not so Ace!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33067157" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I correctly said, "the vast majority of labour MPs voted to have an eu referendum."

I then asked

2. Did all Labour MPs stand on an manifesto pledge to respect the referendum ? 

Yes Or no.?

And you want to dance on pin head while simultaneously splitting hairs about the phrase "respecting" or "accepting" the referendum and continue to look ridiculous, that's fine by me. Either way they pledged to leave the European. And this turn around from their manifesto pledge is why they've been accused of betrayal and why many of their MPs in Northern Leave voting constituencies like John Mann are justifiably, insensed that it may see labour lose seats in its former heartlands.

I asked-

3. Did the vast majority of labour MPs vote to trigger article 50. WHICH MEANS, IN LAW, WE LEAVE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE HAVE A DEAL OR NO DEAL?

Yes or no?

You agreed. But now give a bizarre answer mentioning "where's the evidence of a future event?" We are towards the end of a process that was started by the the triggering of article 50. Fact.

But you saved your best till last. You really did.

I asked -

4 When the vast majority of labour MPs voted to trigger article 50. Did they know what they were voting for? 

Yes or no?

You answered "no" because "they didn’t consider all the consequences when they voted to trigger Article 50".!!!

As though that somehow mitigates them from now being seen as duplicitous, forked tongued, "Leave in the north. Remain in london", untrustworthy charlatans. But demonstrates what a bunch of incompetent, not fit for purpose, hapless clowns you're happy to vote for!! They clearly didn't bother with the details did they!?

Just like your good self.........

You can wriggle as much as you want on point 1, but you’re wrong (but as ever won’t accept it). As the BBC article you quote states, the vote you reference was just to take the bill through to its next reading not to make it law. As I’ve said, when it came to making the referendum an actual reality the majority of Labour MPs abstained. If you’d asked ‘did the majority of Labour MPs vote to let the eu referendum bill have a third reading’ you’d be right when you say yes, but you didn’t.

Oh, and you haven’t answered my question on the Labour manifesto ruling out no deal. Labour are rigidly sticking to their manifesto on Brexit at the moment.

[nil_desperandum]

I disagree there it's a symptom to a problem, you can force change by doing things differently, people seem to pass the buck to the government instead of looking at the obligations towards the EU, people cannot access benefits (some) less immigration will present more job opportunities, some people are already on the rock bottom they cannot get any worse, the government HAS to change it's stance without the reliance on so much outside labour. In response to ND,

Really simple question.
If you're "at rock bottom" to use your words, and your weekly shopping bill goes up by even as little as £5, are you worse off?
And slightly more difficult, if your shopping bill goes up by £5, who feels the pain most, those at the bottom or those who are better off.
And even more difficult, assuming the economy - as widely predicted shrinks and the tax take etc decreases, who will suffer most if the govt tackles it by reducing public services and benefits?

[RingoMcCartney]

Did the words 'We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option ' appear in the Labour manifesto that Labour politicians were elected on? Yes or No?

Yes.

But why did you stop half way through the sentence Marty.

Which was-

"We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy."

Where's the mention of a 2nd referendum with Remain on the ballot paper?

Mays deal, as bad as it is, includes a 2 year transition period, the very thing that's mentioned in their manifesto pledge. Yet they've chosen to ignore what they previously said theyd do and leapfrog straight to a 2nd referendum without the 1st one being enacted. How is that respecting / accepting the referendum?

More importantly than the lame excuse you'll no doubt concoct. Is how will it be perceived by the 2/3rds of labour constituencies that voted Leave. George Galloway and John Mann had some interesting things to say about that damaging, potentially long term or even permanent perception.

Your and my views are irrelevant Marty. Those of the 5 million labour leave voters matter. By being seen as the party that facilitated The Establishments Brexit, Adonis's Brexit, Campbells and worst of all the War Criminal Tony Bliars Brexit. They just guaranteed that Corbyn will never get his metropolitan bubble dwelling, terrorist supporting hands on the keys to number 10!

Every cloud!

[RingoMcCartney]

You can wriggle as much as you want on point 1, but you’re wrong (but as ever won’t accept it). As the BBC article you quote states, the vote you reference was just to take the bill through to its next reading not to make it law. As I’ve said, when it came to making the referendum an actual reality the majority of Labour MPs abstained. If you’d asked ‘did the majority of Labour MPs vote to let the eu referendum bill have a third reading’ you’d be right when you say yes, but you didn’t.

Oh, and you haven’t answered my question on the Labour manifesto ruling out no deal. Labour are rigidly sticking to their manifesto on Brexit at the moment.

544 to 53 (nearly all SNP) Nuff said.

Marty! Patience patience! Your sticking your nose into replies for other people.

Your schooling is above.

[martin_p]

Yes.

But why did you stop half way through the sentence Marty.

Which was-

"We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy."

Because transition arrangements only apply where there’s a deal.

Labour have put forward their own Brexit proposals, in line with what they said they wanted in their manifesto. A referendum only kicks in if those proposals are rejected.

[martin_p]

Marty! Patience patience! Your sticking your nose into replies for other people.

Your schooling is above.

Wriggle, wriggle, deflect. Classic Wrongo.

[RingoMcCartney]

Because transition arrangements only apply where there’s a deal.

Labour have put forward their own Brexit proposals, in line with what they said they wanted in their manifesto. A referendum only kicks in if those proposals are rejected.

Again,

Rather than vote for Mays deal, as bad as it is, which includes a 2 year transition period, the very thing that's mentioned in their manifesto pledge. Yet they've chosen to ignore what they previously said theyd do and leapfrog straight to a 2nd referendum without the 1st one being enacted. How is that respecting / accepting the referendum?

More importantly than the lame excuse you'll no doubt concoct. Is how will it be perceived by the 2/3rds of labour constituencies that voted Leave. George Galloway and John Mann had some interesting things to say about that damaging, potentially long term or even permanent perception.

Your and my views are irrelevant Marty. Those of the 5 million labour leave voters matter. By being seen as the party that facilitated The Establishments Brexit, Adonis's Brexit, Campbells and worst of all the War Criminal Tony Bliars Brexit. They just guaranteed that Corbyn will never get his metropolitan bubble dwelling, terrorist supporting hands on the keys to number 10!

Every cloud!

[Burnley Ace]

544 to 53 (nearly all SNP) Nuff said.

Marty! Patience patience! Your sticking your nose into replies for other people.

Your schooling is above.

Lol you are just flaunting your ignorance again. There is only one vote that counts and on that vote Labour MOs abstained, you can’t change history zRingo!

Did Labour MPs vote to make the EU referendum Bill an Act? Yes or No?

It might be dancing on a pin but do we need another 50 pages to teach you the difference between Accept and Respect?

Does the Labour manifesto say they will RESPECT the result of the Referendum? Yes or No

[RingoMcCartney]

Wriggle, wriggle, deflect. Classic Wrongo.

Meanwhile back in real world. Any body who knows what happened was that the 3rd reading was a formality given the "overwhelming support " it had previously received. So no surprise that numbers were down by the 3rd reading with only those against it , mainly the SNP.

Trying to convince yourself the vast majority of labour MPs didn't vote for the EU referendum is , well, silly.

[RingoMcCartney]

Lol you are just flaunting your ignorance again. There is only one vote that counts and on that vote Labour MOs abstained, you can’t change history zRingo!

Did Labour MPs vote to make the EU referendum Bill an Act? Yes or No?

It might be dancing on a pin but do we need another 50 pages to teach you the difference between Accept and Respect?

Does the Labour manifesto say they will RESPECT the result of the Referendum? Yes or No

I've already answered "yes". . "respecting" or "accepting" the referendum. Either way they pledged to leave the European.


You're flaunting your mutton headed qualities once again. In virtually all debates I've listened to, it's a widely accepted fact that , by a ratio of around 6 to 1 , MPs voted to have an eu referendum. (Which included the vast majority of labour MPs)

Only in the UTC message board Remoaner bubble does any other view exist!

"There's only one vote that counts". Says who? Says the UTC message board very own political analyst, Burnley not so Ace!

This is what Chris Mason, the BBCs political correspondent said-

"You don't need a doctorate in mathematics to work out this was a Commons majority of rather a lot.

With 650 MPs in the House of Commons, persuading 84% of them to vote the same way is quite something.

In fact, such an achievement the result was held up because of the length of the queue of those wanting to endorse the idea of an EU referendum.

How did it happen?

Labour campaigned before the general election against the idea of a referendum, saying it would be destabilising. But after what amounted, to them, to be a rather destabilising appointment with the electorate, they have changed their mind in defeat."

I rest my case.

[aggi]

I've already answered "yes".


You're flaunting your mutton headed qualities once again. In virtually all debates I've listened to, it's a widely accepted fact that , by a ratio of around 6 to 1 , MPs voted to have an eu referendum. (Which included the vast majority of labour MPs)

Only in the UTC message board Remoaner bubble does any other view exist!

"There's only one vote that counts". Says who? Says the UTC message board very own political analyst, Burnley not so Ace!

This is what Chris Mason, the BBCs political correspondent said-

"You don't need a doctorate in mathematics to work out this was a Commons majority of rather a lot.

With 650 MPs in the House of Commons, persuading 84% of them to vote the same way is quite something.

In fact, such an achievement the result was held up because of the length of the queue of those wanting to endorse the idea of an EU referendum.

How did it happen?

Labour campaigned before the general election against the idea of a referendum, saying it would be destabilising. But after what amounted, to them, to be a rather destabilising appointment with the electorate, they have changed their mind in defeat."

I rest my case.

Whilst you're posting Ringo, can you answer this question from earlier. I'm genuinely intrigued why someone who is so desperate to leave is so accepting of some politicians who prevent it but not others.

So why are you not furious at all of the MPs (both brexiteers and remain) who voted down May's deal?

[RingoMcCartney]

Whilst you're posting Ringo, can you answer this question from earlier. I'm genuinely intrigued why someone who is so desperate to leave is so accepting of some politicians who prevent it but not others.

So why are you not furious at all of the MPs (both brexiteers and remain) who voted down May's deal?

Brexiteers ( tory and labour) that voted it down did so because they see it as brexit in name only. Given they stood on a manifesto that pledged to leave the European Union . Voted to trigger article 50 and enshrine leaving the EU on March 29th into law. They are, in my view being consistent and honourable.

Remoaner ( tory and labour) that voted it down, were being opportunistic and doing what they've down throughout the negotiations. Going back on the manifesto pledges on which they were elected. And despite the vast majority of MPs ( tory and labour) voting to trigger article 50, they're clearly wanting to thwart, undermine and in most cases stop the uk ever leaving the EU. They are in my view duplicitous, dishonourable and helping to ferment a deep, long term, even permanent, mistrust of politicians, parliament and democracy itself.

[Imploding Turtle]

Brexiteers ( tory and labour) that voted it down did so because they see it as brexit in name only. Given they stood on a manifesto that pledged to leave the European Union . Voted to trigger article 50 and enshrine leaving the EU on March 29th into law. They are, in my view being consistent and honourable.

Remoaner ( tory and labour) that voted it down, were being opportunistic and doing what they've down throughout the negotiations. Going back on the manifesto pledges on which they were elected. And despite the vast majority of MPs ( tory and labour) voting to trigger article 50, they're clearly wanting to thwart, undermine and in most cases stop the uk ever leaving the EU. They are in my view duplicitous, dishonourable and helping to ferment a deep, long term, even permanent, mistrust of politicians, parliament and democracy itself.

When people I agree with do it they're honourable.
When people i disagree with do it it's because they're dishonourable.

Take your meds.

[Greenmile]

I disagree there it's a symptom to a problem, you can force change by doing things differently, people seem to pass the buck to the government instead of looking at the obligations towards the EU, people cannot access benefits (some) less immigration will present more job opportunities, some people are already on the rock bottom they cannot get any worse, the government HAS to change it's stance without the reliance on so much outside labour. In response to ND,

This is not true of anybody in the UK - even the poorest, most downtrodden, hungry and sick of our citizens.

I genuinely hope you never have to learn that things can always get worse. A no-deal Brexit would almost certainly teach you that lesson.

[Jakubclaret]

This is not true of anybody in the UK - even the poorest, most downtrodden, hungry and sick of our citizens.

I genuinely hope you never have to learn that things can always get worse. A no-deal Brexit would almost certainly teach you that lesson.

I suggest 1 night time you go into leeds/manchester or any city & peer under bridges or shop doorways basically anywhere where theres cover & you will see people at the rock bottom the poorest in society, i haven't imagined it its there, for some people life cannot get any worse, im not attributing all this on the EU by any stretch, but the inability to source suitable housing & work is a factor.

[martin_p]

Brexiteers ( tory and labour) that voted it down did so because they see it as brexit in name only. Given they stood on a manifesto that pledged to leave the European Union . Voted to trigger article 50 and enshrine leaving the EU on March 29th into law. They are, in my view being consistent and honourable.

Remoaner ( tory and labour) that voted it down, were being opportunistic and doing what they've down throughout the negotiations. Going back on the manifesto pledges on which they were elected. And despite the vast majority of MPs ( tory and labour) voting to trigger article 50, they're clearly wanting to thwart, undermine and in most cases stop the uk ever leaving the EU. They are in my view duplicitous, dishonourable and helping to ferment a deep, long term, even permanent, mistrust of politicians, parliament and democracy itself.

You’ve proper tied yourself in knots there Wrongo, even by your own standards! So let me get this straight, you’d prefer the ‘ceaseless remoaners’ to have honoured their manifesto pledges (in your opinion) and voted FOR May’s deal, meaning it would have been voted through, leading us to a ‘Brexit in name alone’?

I think you’re part of the remoaner conspiracy!!

[claretonthecoast1882]

I'll be voting remain in a second referendum so actually I will, literally, be the intelligent fixing the mistakes of the stupid.

Why didn't you vote remain in the 1st one ?

[Lancasterclaret]

This is all very entertaining, but you are letting Ringo dictate the narrative.

When he talks crap like this, he is trying to deflect you from concentrating on stuff like this

https://twitter.com/37paday/status/1100537973077090304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The No Deal contingency plans and our current preparedness plans. All nicely highlighted to show just how unprepared we are.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The no deal contingency plans doubtless contain much truth but by heck they make it hard for them to be believed.

For example, a big drop in GDP over 15 years assuming no action taken. In what circumstance would that ever happen? No action for 15 years after no deal? Very silly stating those figures.

[Darthlaw]

Yet another twitter randomer, Lancaster?

You’d be better off linking Daily Mash articles than this kind of desperate diatribe.

[Lancasterclaret]

Bless Darth, this has really got to you hasn't it?

Do you have an issue with me, or with Brexit?

I'm linking Government reports here guys.

You know, official government reports of the actual consequences of this.

If you want, you can ignore the comments on the tweet, but you can't ignore what it says in the official government paper.

Well, you can, but you have to actually back it up with something.

BIG HINT

Thats not having a go at me for pointing out how daft you sound, its finding actual evidence that the government papers are wrong.

[evensteadiereddie]

A twitter random quoting GOVERNMENT plans. You know, like, plans drawn up by the er, government............

[Greenmile]

I suggest 1 night time you go into leeds/manchester or any city & peer under bridges or shop doorways basically anywhere where theres cover & you will see people at the rock bottom the poorest in society, i haven't imagined it its there, for some people life cannot get any worse, im not attributing all this on the EU by any stretch, but the inability to source suitable housing & work is a factor.

I suggest you do a bit of research on countries like Haiti, North Korea, or DR Congo, and have a re-think on where “rock bottom” really is.

[Darthlaw]

A twitter randomer giving biased interpretation of government plans.

I gave up after the first two points which were so pedantic and semantics driven, although it’s a miracle I got past “Now we had a referendum about the EU. You know the advisory NON- BINDING one riddled with breaches of electoral law and foreign interference.”

But aye, you keep posting em.

And no Lancs, no issue. If anything I enjoy the humour of someone not only taking tweets like that seriously but then trying to use it to illustrate a point to others.

Whatever the debacle with brexit, your twitter examples do lift my spirits.

[martin_p]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... h_2019.pdf

Here’s the unadulterated report for those who don’t like the Twitter commentary. It doesn’t really make any better reading I’m afraid. You can’t just stick your collective Brexit heads in the sand over this.

[SussexDon1inIreland]

I voted Leave
I have like the other 17.4 million been ignored

Democracy is dead

The politicians are all crooks expenses scandal 10 years ago and now this

I am never going to bother voting again and I concede defeat to the establishment who never expected us to vote against them but after 2.5 years I have been worn down by the one sided media the lies about no deal being a disaster which I don’t believe will be.

Mrs May - I actually believed you were going to deliver the Brexit you promised in your Mansion House speech
I actually believed you when you said over 30 times in the House of Commons “we are leaving on 29th March 2019”
I believed that our Civil Service would deliver on the will of the people.

I was wrong

I can’t I believe do anything about it

At least I don’t need to spend any more time reading about BREXIT because I lost even though I won

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