Contactless Payments

damo_whitehead · Post by **damo_whitehead** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:54 pm

Just wondered if it has ever been considered to introduce contactless payments in the concourse? I am one of those people that never carries cash and uses contactless everywhere.

Maybe I just need to remember to stop at a cash machine instead?

claretdj · Post by **claretdj** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:57 pm

I think a lot of clubs link your bank details to your season ticket now & you can use it to make payments on food n drink when inside the ground.. just another option for bfc maybe?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:59 pm

Yes i believe they are discussing this at the moment with a plan to introduce it in 15 years.
For the time being they are happy with the bartering system they introduced in 1883 so you won’t need cash. Just drop your piglets off with the stewards and you will get a pint of ale and a pie good fellow.

damo_whitehead · Post by **damo_whitehead** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:01 pm

TVC15 wrote:Yes i believe they are discussing this at the moment with a plan to introduce it in 15 years.
For the time being they are happy with the bartering system they introduced in 1883 so you won’t need cash. Just drop your piglets off with the stewards and you will get a pint of ale and a pie good fellow.

Transpennine · Post by **Transpennine** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:05 pm

You can pay by contactless in the CFS. That's if you ever manage to get to the bar...

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:05 pm

Tried it in the cricketfield field stand, told hardly anyone and then decided it wasn’t a success so haven’t rolled it out.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:09 pm

Only 1 terminal in Lower Longside. According to the person operating it, they aren't getting anymore as they're too expensive.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:22 pm

A smartphone app would be great too.

Order you’re food/drinks etc and pay on the app.

Sean Dyche's Watch · Post by **Sean Dyche's Watch** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:29 pm

Dyched wrote:A smartphone app would be great too.

Order you’re food/drinks etc and pay on the app.

And delivered to your seat, perfect! Obviously not alcohol though.

Sean Dyche's Watch · Post by **Sean Dyche's Watch** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:29 pm

Do the outlets have chip and pin machines?

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:33 pm

This is all way too 2016 for Burnley FC.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:33 pm

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote:Do the outlets have chip and pin machines?

Don't know but perhaps you can have chips with your pi'n peas

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:27 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Tried it in the cricketfield field stand, told hardly anyone and then decided it wasn’t a success so haven’t rolled it out.

Most people have banknotes in the CFS so not really needed there

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:32 pm

damo_whitehead wrote:Just wondered if it has ever been considered to introduce contactless payments in the concourse? I am one of those people that never carries cash and uses contactless everywhere.

We trialied it last season in the cricket field stand and there was very little uptake. So the club opted not to continue but will look to tie something in with Teamcard in the future.

Sean Dyche's Watch · Post by **Sean Dyche's Watch** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:35 pm

ClaretTony wrote:We trialied it last season in the cricket field stand and there was very little uptake. So the club opted not to continue but will look to tie something in with Teamcard in the future.

How widely was the trial advertised though?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:36 pm

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote:How widely was the trial advertised though?

No idea - just know they trialed it, very little take up and so wasn't cost effective.

Sean Dyche's Watch · Post by **Sean Dyche's Watch** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:46 pm

ClaretTony wrote:No idea - just know they trialed it, very little take up and so wasn't cost effective.

I suspect it wasn't widely advertised, not even on the concourse on matchdays.

Almost as if the club didn't want it to be implemented long-term?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:46 pm

Crazy that the bars are cash only in 2019. Like a lot of people I never carry cash and I can quite honestly say that I would go for a half time pint fairly frequently if this facility was available.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:54 pm

Plan is to make the Turf fully contactless in 2026 to coincide with the Premier League rule change to become contactless.

Garnerssoap · Post by **Garnerssoap** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:01 pm

I-pie was life changing

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:43 pm

I rarely carry cash anymore and it is annoying not having the option to pay with contactless/card. How much does it cost to implement it? Does it matter if nobody uses it much as long as someone gets benefit?

For now I'll haul my ass over to the post office and withdraw a tenner a time like some slave.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:51 pm

In all seriousness it’s pretty typical of the club to be so short sighted and behind the times with this.

It’s not that expensive.
It needs to be advertised to fans.
You need to wait for usage to build up.

When they say it’s expensive there is no way it can be as expensive as the total costs of :
1) the bank charges / cost of paying in cash
2) the staff costs of dealing with cash at the counters compared to the speed of contactless
3) the continual loss of income from people not getting served because of the long queues or deciding to not even bother queueing up.

It’s no surprise that the club’s “commercial” department can’t put together a simple cost / benefits analysis.

JimMcDonald · Post by **JimMcDonald** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:38 pm

Works both ways though i dont have a bank account therefore carry lots of cash (usually around 2k) so contactless would be useless for me.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:45 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:I rarely carry cash anymore and it is annoying not having the option to pay with contactless/card.

I never buy anything inside a football ground but have to say that I don’t use cash very much at all now

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:49 pm

JimMcDonald wrote:Works both ways though i dont have a bank account therefore carry lots of cash (usually around 2k) so contactless would be useless for me.

Ok nice to know.
What way do you normally walk home ?
Just curious !

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:55 pm

Unfortunately, with the current contactless limit at £30, you won't be able to buy a Twix.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:33 pm

I don't think I would ever have the nerve to ditch cash and rely on both the bank's computers and the mobile phone system working perfectly, all the time. Because we know they don't. Do these cards still work when the bank has forgotten its own password and locked all the accounts?

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:51 pm

TVC15 wrote:In all seriousness it’s pretty typical of the club to be so short sighted and behind the times with this.

It’s not that expensive.
It needs to be advertised to fans.
You need to wait for usage to build up.

When they say it’s expensive there is no way it can be as expensive as the total costs of :
1) the bank charges / cost of paying in cash
2) the staff costs of dealing with cash at the counters compared to the speed of contactless
3) the continual loss of income from people not getting served because of the long queues or deciding to not even bother queueing up.

It’s no surprise that the club’s “commercial” department can’t put together a simple cost / benefits analysis.

The bars can be hundreds of pounds down each week too, and I do not exaggerate one bit. I know someone who has just started working in one of the stands and their bar was down £150 a couple of matches ago, and they were shocked that it was considered normal and within tolerance. WTF?!

My cousin worked behind one 10 years ago in the upper Longside and I recall one big game where it was over £300 down! Although it was quite a bit higher than normal this was just one bar alone. How many bars are in the ground?

Surely with contactless it makes it far more difficult for this to happen? Compared with the several thousand per match we lose, how much is the system?

Also, if they advertise the thing with a big “we accept cards” or “Apple Pay” on the signs then people know about it?

We are stuck in the dark ages. We are a Premier League club run as a League One outfit. That’s what it feels like at times.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:13 am

The cost for a full system wouldn’t be that great - peanuts with what we are currently bringing in.

We’ve presumably already got such a system in the ship so should only need to expand it out to the food and drink stalls.

We really should be a bit more customer focussed.

damo_whitehead · Post by **damo_whitehead** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:18 am

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Hopefully one day soon we will have it implemented. Here's hoping

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:05 am

ClaretTony wrote:No idea - just know they trialed it, very little take up and so wasn't cost effective.

Much cheaper to count cash, give change, count cash again after closing, accept losses, bank cash, pay higher bank charges for banking cash?

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:33 am

paulus the woodgnome wrote:Much cheaper to count cash, give change, count cash again after closing, accept losses, bank cash, pay higher bank charges for banking cash?

To be fair I think CT is only giving the current picture of why it wasn’t rolled out. It seems a ridiculous excuse though from the club.

Whenever you comment online and it appears negative you tend to get shouted down by the ‘Remember Orient’ crew, even though I was at that game. It’s as though there’s an unwritten rule that you don’t criticise the club, but how do you progress unless people are willing to comment, good or bad?

Let’s be honest, from a fans point of view, and what is it, 10 years of Premier League money, we haven’t moved forward. The disabled stands were forced on us by Premier League rules/guideline, Barnfield was needed for the players, and the corporate spend was for the club. The fans are still sat in crap 1990’s and 1970’s stands, with 1990’s facilities at best.

gc14 · Post by **gc14** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:06 am

Think it was Fulham this season, £5 a pint and no cash taken, card only !!
I wasn't tempted

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:11 am

gc14 wrote:Think it was Fulham this season, £5 a pint and no cash taken, card only !!
I wasn't tempted

The little kiosk as you went in at Fulham was card only and a very small queue the main bars took cash and had longer queues, clearly there isn't that much demand. Can't believe anyone goes out without some money on them, even weirder when they are going somewhere and think they might buy something and know in advance there isn't card payment.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:13 am

Pretty sure that the club will look at this again I'd have thought.

One thing I will say though to all you "oh, I never carry cash" lot, quite a lot of the really small businesses in the areas where the internet isn't great (ie the country!) don't take anything but cash.

Getting better, but I can think of at least three cafes near us where its "cash only"

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:07 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:The little kiosk as you went in at Fulham was card only and a very small queue the main bars took cash and had longer queues, clearly there isn't that much demand. Can't believe anyone goes out without some money on them, even weirder when they are going somewhere and think they might buy something and know in advance there isn't card payment.

You’re right, it’s silly not to take cash on the Turf as all regulars know they don’t take card in 90% of the areas. It’s just a ball ache to remember to go and get cash before going down. I’m sure the queues would be quicker. You go in a Tesco now and most people pay on the card, and many of them contactless. Contactless is much quicker.

I imagine the lack of queues at Fulham for the card payments were that our fans are used to having to take cash?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:16 am

dsr wrote:I don't think I would ever have the nerve to ditch cash and rely on both the bank's computers and the mobile phone system working perfectly, all the time. Because we know they don't. Do these cards still work when the bank has forgotten its own password and locked all the accounts?

Are you being sarcastic or is that a real question ?
Genuinely I can’t tell.
If it’s real then cards / terminals are not provided / managed by the Banks.
I can’t remember the last time their systems went down and they have better reliability than cash machines.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:24 am

TVC15 wrote:Are you being sarcastic or is that a real question ?
Genuinely I can’t tell.
If it’s real then cards / terminals are not provided / managed by the Banks.
I can’t remember the last time their systems went down and they have better reliability than cash machines.

No, it's a real question. I know cash is utterly foolproof and cannot go wrong, and I have a credit card as backup. Is it suggested that contactless cards are equally foolproof and cannot go wrong? Because that doesn't tie in with the computer world I know.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:33 am

dsr wrote:No, it's a real question. I know cash is utterly foolproof and cannot go wrong, and I have a credit card as backup. Is it suggested that contactless cards are equally foolproof and cannot go wrong? Because that doesn't tie in with the computer world I know.

Nothing is utterly foolproof - including cash. Most cash machines are run on the same Link IT infrastructure - plus they can also run out of cash of course.
I can’t remember the last time the card systems were down - it would be all over the media. It’s not just a case of your bank computer systems being down.

I don’t know what computer world you are referring to but try and think about the last time you were not able to use all of your various bank cards - has it ever happened ? If you can’t use your card for contactless then I doubt you could use it to draw cash.

Nobody is saying make the turf cashless anyway - it’s about giving people a choice and making their own processes far more efficient and cheaper. It’s been recognised for many years that dealing with cash is by far the most inefficient and expensive way of transacting - yet Burnley FC for some reason have a different view !

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:51 am

They take contactless in the club shop so they do have it on board.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:52 am

Just think of all those nasty germs on bank notes that are being passed around by filthy money.

Has the previous user of that £20 note washed their hands after going for a poo ewwwwwwwe disgusting nasty horrible cash money....

Long live the Contactless payment...... then you don't have to touch nasty germy money that has passed through all those unclean hands.

Like those nasty evil germy soap dispensers...

thank god some invented a soap dispenser you no longer have to touch. Just wave your hand underneath and it dispenses soap into your hand......

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:54 am

karatekid wrote:They take contactless in the club shop so they do have it on board.

They’ve taken cards for years in the club shop so contactless and such as Apple Pay have just followed. Other than the trial in the cricket field and that ridiculous pie ordering idea, it’s always been cash for refreshments.

Personally I think it’s short sighted and behind the times. A bit like what’s on offer at the kiosks.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:06 am

Bosscat wrote:Just think of all those nasty germs on bank notes that are being passed around by filthy money.

Has the previous user of that £20 note washed their hands after going for a poo ewwwwwwwe disgusting nasty horrible cash money....

Long live the Contactless payment...... then you don't have to touch nasty germy money that has passed through all those unclean hands.

Like those nasty evil germy soap dispensers... thank god some invented a soap dispenser you no longer have to touch. Just wave your hand underneath and it dispenses soap into your hand......

It's not the germs you need to worry about on bank notes, it's the cocaine more than anything else.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:06 am

TVC15 wrote:Nothing is utterly foolproof - including cash. Most cash machines are run on the same Link IT infrastructure - plus they can also run out of cash of course.
I can’t remember the last time the card systems were down - it would be all over the media. It’s not just a case of your bank computer systems being down.

I don’t know what computer world you are referring to but try and think about the last time you were not able to use all of your various bank cards - has it ever happened ? If you can’t use your card for contactless then I doubt you could use it to draw cash.

Nobody is saying make the turf cashless anyway - it’s about giving people a choice and making their own processes far more efficient and cheaper. It’s been recognised for many years that dealing with cash is by far the most inefficient and expensive way of transacting - yet Burnley FC for some reason have a different view !

Cash is foolproof in the sense that if I have a £10 note in my pocket, it will never fail to be a £10 note. And I was not suggesting that BFC will be cashless, just responding to those who say they never carry cash at all.

Last time my credit card failed was when I tried to use it in the USA, so they rang me at home to check that it was me. Guess what - I wasn't at home. Fortunately I had a more sensible card with me. If you rely on a contactless debit card, you have to have a second card as well - otherwise what happens if it gets hacked?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:17 am

dsr wrote:Cash is foolproof in the sense that if I have a £10 note in my pocket, it will never fail to be a £10 note. And I was not suggesting that BFC will be cashless, just responding to those who say they never carry cash at all.

Last time my credit card failed was when I tried to use it in the USA, so they rang me at home to check that it was me. Guess what - I wasn't at home. Fortunately I had a more sensible card with me. If you rely on a contactless debit card, you have to have a second card as well - otherwise what happens if it gets hacked?

Your card did not work in USA due to fraud checks by your Bank / credit card company. Nothing to do with the technology not working. Advice is to tell them when you are going away.
It’s not the debit card that gets hacked - it’s your bank account which hosts the debit card...and in this case it might be frozen or emptied anyway.
If you rely just on cash then you might lose it or get it nicked !
As I said nobody is saying you can’t use cash - it’s just most people and especially the younger people have moved with the times and I can’t understand why the club hasn’t. Many people use Apple or Google Pay or contactless everywhere else - it’s just daft they cannot use it at Turf Moor.

And as said it’s daft of the club to be so frugal in some areas like the transfer market or improving the facilities and then so backwards and inefficient in other areas like this. You could put the savings / additional income they would generate straight back into improving the facilities.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:25 am

I was in Halfords a couple of years ago. The woman infront of me was buying about 12 quids worth of goods.
She put her bag on the counter to take her purse out.

At that point the till opened and the card machine printed out a receipt. Her contactless card was still in her handbag inside a purse....

Everyone looked shocked.

That was when I got 4 skimguards cards (Wife now has one in her purse my Brother now has one in his wallet) and I also have an rfid protection wallet.

I have also about read about the people on trains and other public places being scammed by people with card machines that use rfid technology. Placing the machine near peoples wallets / bags etc.

Contactless takes up to £30 ... so multiply that by 30 people and you have £900 ... which easy to do in a busy public area, and its not until you get your statement or look online you will notice....

Apparently Natwest are trialing a fingerprint recognition card that will work as a contactless ... but you need to use your fingerprint on the card before swiping it... then will work on the machine (I am unsure of the details but it was in our paper on Sunday).

Found a link to the Grauniad article

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... Gz&ampcf=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:34 am

Unless you have all your cash under the mattress then you are still going to be in some danger of being scammed. Even if you draw cash out for the week there has been a lot of fraud at ATM machines with false readers etc.

Eyres_11 · Post by **Eyres_11** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:58 am

ClaretTony wrote:They’ve taken cards for years in the club shop so contactless and such as Apple Pay have just followed. Other than the trial in the cricket field and that ridiculous pie ordering idea, it’s always been cash for refreshments.

Personally I think it’s short sighted and behind the times. A bit like what’s on offer at the kiosks.

The pre ordering idea was excellent.

The reason not enough people use contact less is because there is ONE terminal in the LL, on a food stand only.

Thats another weird thing, why do we have the bars separate from the food? If I want a coffee for my Dad and a beer for me then half time is over by the time I have been to both.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:09 am

TVC15 wrote:Your card did not work in USA due to fraud checks by your Bank / credit card company. Nothing to do with the technology not working. Advice is to tell them when you are going away.
It’s not the debit card that gets hacked - it’s your bank account which hosts the debit card...and in this case it might be frozen or emptied anyway.
If you rely just on cash then you might lose it or get it nicked !
As I said nobody is saying you can’t use cash - it’s just most people and especially the younger people have moved with the times and I can’t understand why the club hasn’t. Many people use Apple or Google Pay or contactless everywhere else - it’s just daft they cannot use it at Turf Moor.

And as said it’s daft of the club to be so frugal in some areas like the transfer market or improving the facilities and then so backwards and inefficient in other areas like this. You could put the savings / additional income they would generate straight back into improving the facilities.

Thanks for the advice, but I did thell them I was going away. They said I don't need to tell them because normal security procedures will apply; the normal procedure being that they stop the card immediately and ring you up. Not helpful if you don't have an overseas mobile.

I don't just rely on cash. I have a couple of cards as well. But there are people above who carry a card or cards only, and I just wouldn't fancy the perceived risk.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:10 am

TVC15 wrote:Unless you have all your cash under the mattress then you are still going to be in some danger of being scammed. Even if you draw cash out for the week there has been a lot of fraud at ATM machines with false readers etc.

Ever heard of building societies? They haven't yet followed the bank trends of trying to drive away customers by closing branches and reducing cash desks.