Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:22 pm

When the Tory Government lose their vote tonight it's a General Election or an Informed Referendum according to a number of Tories today.

So what do you lot want?

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:26 pm

Second referendum and Theresa May's resignation!

claret_in_exile · Post by **claret_in_exile** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:43 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Anyone listening to this debate, with Mays voice dying quicker than her deal would have to have a heart of stone not to feel some sympathy for her.

As someone who is by no means a Tory supporter, I do think she's proven her willpower. I do think she's trying to do whatever she feels is best for the country, unlike pretty much every other politician in that House.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:45 pm

A referendum for me

Finally, once and for all, the intelligent will be able to fix the mistake of the stupid.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:52 pm

GE with tory canada plus or a managed no deal within 2 years if necessary v

Labour with the softest brexit imaginable subject to a referendum.v

Tiggers on revoking A50

That imo would result in a majority for leaving that gave a very clear way forward and gave the new pm a strong hand un negotiations.

The remain vote would be split.

Edit added bonus of Sourby not being an mp

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:53 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:A referendum for me

Finally, once and for all, the intelligent will be able to fix the mistake of the stupid.

We have had the referendum. We need to respect the mistake of the stupid.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:56 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:A referendum for me

Finally, once and for all, the intelligent will be able to fix the mistake of the stupid.

What if the stupid vote leave again, which I will be doing in a second ref.

claret_in_exile · Post by **claret_in_exile** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:57 pm

dpinsussex wrote:We have had the referendum. We need to respect the mistake of the stupid.

Unfortunately, this is true. We can't disenfranchise the majority of the voters. As insane as Brexit is (and it's completely nuts), not respecting the will of the people is far worse.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:05 pm

Greenmile wrote:Whereas you'll presumably blame Labour, as you do for everything that is the fault of the Tories.

Have a look at my comments and you'll see me quite clearly stating that neither side are any good at running the country, I can use Bold text if it helps.
I've also said that if the Tories hadn't frozen council tax I've no doubt it would've also risen at a similar rate to when Labour were in charge etc.

I'm also of the opinion that Labour put the wrong Miliband in charge and that's led them to where they are now.

I'm happy to stick the knife into both of the main political parties because I don't think either are fit for office, but their core supporters are blind to that idea.

Tory cut backs have been far to harsh, but like Labour who throw money at everything, they can't seem to find a decent balance.
Tories have also royally mucked up Brexit, which will end up making it harsher than it actually needed to be, but that's what happens when they put a weak PM in charge.

I wanted a cross party group to handle Brexit but they wouldn't ever do that, because the opposition parties wouldn't dream of passing on the chance to sling mud over it for years and the Tories wouldn't dare share the responsibility for it incase it works.
I have the same opinion about the NHS, amongst other things.
Yeah I'll point out where Labour have been crap at something when someone's sticking the boot into the Tories, but that's what happens when the last Labour governments made many mistakes, some of which were horrendous or laughable.
I'll do the same to the Tories when they're eventually booted out and Labour start slipping from being half decent to crap, resulting in people getting misty eyed about Tories.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:06 pm

dpinsussex wrote:We have had the referendum. We need to respect the mistake of the stupid.

If Brexit ends up working out quite well in the long term, would you retract that comment?

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:06 pm

So tonight is Mrs May’s last as PM.
It is being suggested she will quit some times after losing the vote.

We are probably looking at Art 50 being kicked down the road whilst we have a G. E.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:09 pm

South West Claret. wrote:When the Tory Government lose their vote tonight it's a General Election or an Informed Referendum according to a number of Tories today.

So what do you lot want?

I've said all along that we should stand by the 2016 decision, but I'm slowly coming round to an Informed Referendum in order to break the impasse. A 'no deal' would be disastrous - an utterly suicidal option. I'm going to start calling No Deal the Putin Option because I can't think of anyone else who would be happier.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:21 pm

Just like to bring you to the attention of the owner of Norton motorcycles.

Today in an article he explains he voted remain but after having research what would happen in a no deal, he has changed his mind and wants No Deal now.

An informed ref might just give another leave vote now people are more informed.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:27 pm

Implicit in the arguments opposing a second referendum - that brexit will be overturned - is the assumption that 'the people' (*urgh*) now favour remaining in the EU; few, if any, brexiteers seem keen on ratifying (and legitimising) the deal by testing the will of the people. Surely follows that slippery folk (and some flat-out morons) are using the language of democracy to advance a policy, its detail arrived at ex post facto, whose popular mandate therefore must be suspect, yes?

Anyway, my reason for posting: this country is going to get incredibly stupid and hysterical over the coming days and weeks and months, so, for the sake of the messageboard, and harking back to the poll a few weeks ago, perhaps whatever happens next could have a megathread sticky at the top where we can all abuse each other in one thread as opposed to multiple threads?

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:31 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:If Brexit ends up working out quite well in the long term, would you retract that comment?

I would amend it rather than retract it.
This great country has a habit of making a success out of anything. It just might not be an overnight success.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:36 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Just like to bring you to the attention of the owner of Norton motorcycles.

Today in an article he explains he voted remain but after having research what would happen in a no deal, he has changed his mind and wants No Deal now.

An informed ref might just give another leave vote now people are more informed.

Have you got a link to that? I'd be interested what he thinks the benefits are. The only article I can find is this one which doesn't say that https://news.sky.com/story/norton-motor ... e-11662637" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:38 pm

Spiral wrote:Implicit in the arguments opposing a second referendum - that brexit will be overturned - is the assumption that 'the people' (*urgh*) now favour remaining in the EU; few, if any, brexiteers seem keen on ratifying (and legitimising) the deal by testing the will of the people. Surely follows that slippery folk (and some flat-out morons) are using the language of democracy to advance a policy, its detail arrived at ex post facto, whose popular mandate therefore must be suspect, yes?

Anyway, my reason for posting: this country is going to get incredibly stupid and hysterical over the coming days and weeks and months, so, for the sake of the messageboard, and harking back to the poll a few weeks ago, perhaps whatever happens next could have a megathread sticky at the top where we can all abuse each other in one thread as opposed to multiple threads?

You will find if you read back, I have been supportive of a 2nd referendum and have been for some time.

Why, because having watched lots of programmes and speaking to loads of people, I don’t see the answer being different.

My only issue is I know the question on the next ref will be fully loaded towards remain, because that’s what the real people in power want.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:40 pm

Lowbank, you hadn't posted before I started typing. My post wasn't aimed at you directly.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:45 pm

They can call what's going on anything they like but the reality is its a pure attempt to overturn democracy and I really don't think they have any idea of what will result from doing it ....

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:46 pm

Sky saying it will be defeated by 100 votes.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:47 pm

Spiral wrote:Lowbank, you hadn't posted before I started typing. My post wasn't aimed at you directly.

I didn’t think it was, just clarifying my position. As a Brexiteer.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:49 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:They can call what's going on anything they like but the reality is its a pure attempt to overturn democracy and I really don't think they have any idea of what will result from doing it ....

I agree, the Brexit Party might make major gains in a GE.

I hope we don’t get extremist parties getting in.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:50 pm

Today in an article he explains he voted remain but after having research what would happen in a no deal, he has changed his mind and wants No Deal now.

You got a link?

So much misinformation out there has entered the mainstream that he's probably assuming stuff that isn't correct. I think I've just heard one Brexiteer MP going on about a "transition period in the event of No Deal" which is completely incorrect.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:58 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I agree, the Brexit Party might make major gains in a GE.

I hope we don’t get extremist parties getting in.

Of what you mean like the present extremist Tory Government, in that case I certainly agree with you.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:59 pm

Well here we go!!!

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:01 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Well here we go!!!

Here we go here we go here we........

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:01 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Of what you mean like the present extremist Tory Government, in that case I certainly agree with you.

Or the Lenin/ Marxist led Labour Party

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:02 pm

Best quote I have read tonight

"a turd of a deal which is now a polished turd", however adds that, "It might be the best turd we've got.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:09 pm

Which pretty accurately sums this shitshow up.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:11 pm

What’s got to happen to cause the maximum of upset and carnage?

I want that

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:12 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Or the Lenin/ Marxist led Labour Party

Revealing that you don’t even try to defend your utterly corrupt,incompetent and extremist excuse for a Government.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:14 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Revealing that you don’t even try to defend your utterly corrupt,incompetent and extremist excuse for a Government.

Never voted Tory in my life, was a Labour Party member for 20 years, mother was a Lancashire county councillor, I walked door steps for several years to keep getting her elected.

Labour is a Party I don’t recognise now

claret_in_exile · Post by **claret_in_exile** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:14 pm

Inchy wrote:What’s got to happen to cause the maximum of upset and carnage?

I want that

Good chance you'll get that, sadly.

claret_in_exile · Post by **claret_in_exile** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:17 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Never voted Tory in my life, was a Labour Party member for 20 years, mother was a Lancashire county councillor, I walked door steps for several years to keep getting her elected.

Labour is a Party I don’t recognise now

Me neither. Life-long Labour voter here. Won't vote for a party led by Corbyn.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:19 pm

I will vote for Corbyn because he’s a bit mad and I think he will give us all a right ride. Be a good laugh if nothing else

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:19 pm

If we dont honour the referendum then what is the point in anyone voting for anything
Government included

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:19 pm

I would have voted for Boris but he’s had his hair cut so pointless now

claret_in_exile · Post by **claret_in_exile** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:22 pm

dpinsussex wrote:If we dont honour the referendum then what is the point in anyone voting for anything
Government included

Precisely.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:23 pm

Inchy wrote:I would have voted for Boris but he’s had his hair cut so pointless now

Yeah. He no longer has funny hair.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:23 pm

May sounds like she’s been gobbling Saruman

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:24 pm

Defeated by 149.

This deal was never going to go through. It was the same deal as the original one, but printed in a different font.

She's an idiot. She could have reached out to Labour MPs by offering them a deal where UK workers rights never fall below those of the EU.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:29 pm

At least she's not tried to change the next two days of stuff. At least we'll have a better idea by then.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:31 pm

She would have lost half of her govt if she had reneged on the next two days stuff.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:34 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Never voted Tory in my life, was a Labour Party member for 20 years, mother was a Lancashire county councillor, I walked door steps for several years to keep getting her elected.

Labour is a Party I don’t recognise now

You’ve never voted Tory in your life? you do surprise me given your views expressed above.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:35 pm

it wouldn't have mattered, she's not governing anyway.

Free vote on a "No Deal"? Everything about it suggests it would be a disaster for the UK and she's gives in the lets it become a free vote for Conservative MPs.

I absolutely guarantee tomorrows Brexit media will be selling the "No Deal" as something a hell of a lot better than it actually is and I also bet that it won't get called out.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:35 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:A referendum for me

Finally, once and for all, the intelligent will be able to fix the mistake of the stupid.

Were you born a dim gormless undemocratic narrow minded repetitive tw@t or have you had to work hard at it..?

Have you any idea how cretinous your posts are?

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:37 pm

claret_in_exile wrote:Me neither. Life-long Labour voter here. Won't vote for a party led by Corbyn.

So you are one of those that voted three times for Tory Blair are you, well thanks for nothing.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:38 pm

Did i miss Magic Grandpa mentioning a second referendum ?

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:38 pm

What a lovely day!

Thinking that because you voted leave and haven't changed your mind that the rest of the country is the same as you is fatal. Remain will win the second referendum by a landslide.

Tomorrow you also get to wave goodbye to no-deal.

And at the end of the week someone will be crawling off back to Brussels to beg for an extension.

This is hilarious, I might vote leave in the second referendum just to keep this circus going.

claret_in_exile · Post by **claret_in_exile** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:39 pm

South West Claret. wrote:So you are one of those that voted three times for Tory Blair are you, well thanks for nothing.

Absolutely. Strong supporter of Tony Blair as far as "political compass" goes - obviously, don't agree with everything he did.

But, boy, doesn't Labour need someone like him right now?