Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[android]

Its no more an obsession than leavers banging on about the EU having control of "sovereignty and laws" is it?

And the slogans about refugees and the NHS definitely had an effect. That is unarguable.

So your argument is reduced to 2 wrongs make a right?
Why shouldn't the possibility of spending more money on the NHS have an effect?

I haven't time to debate all the other stuff - and bear in mind I was a Remainer once - but I just find the bus obsession very odd.

[Lancasterclaret]

Not at all! You can't expect either side not to bring up this kind of stuff because each side regard it as important.

I don't think its an obsession though.

What it is the best and quickest way to get a point across that Leave might have promised the earth and we haven't got any chance of getting anywhere near it.

And the main point is that a lot of people believed the NHS and the refugee claims.

[aggi]

Clearly you have forgotten the manifesto pledge of both Labour and Tory to respect the referendum result and commit to leaving the SM and CU.

You could also add in the personal wishes of remainer MPs to do everything in their power to overturn the will of the public..

Might not fit in with your agenda however.

I think you may have forgotten that Labour didn't commit to that:

We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union

[android]

Maybe a lot did. Maybe a lot more believed the fear of recession and unemployment and every household being worse off by £4,000 (might be wrong with that figure it might have been some other bit of nonsense guess work dressed up as fact). And so it goes on. We all have our biased views but some of us know we are biased and some don't! Got to go but thanks for your replies as always.

[Sproggy]

Lots of people probably believed George Osborne's prediction that house prices would drop 18% in the 2 years following a leave vote.
Lots of people probably believed George Osborne's prediction that households would be £4,300 a year worse off within 2 years of a leave vote
Lots of people probably believed George Osborne's prediction that millions of jobs would be lost within 2 years of a leave vote
Lots of people probably believed George Osborne and Alastair Darling's threat of the need for a £15billion punishment budget immediately following a leave vote
Lots of people probably believed Donald Tusk's prediction that a UK leave vote would be the end of western political civilisation
Lots of people probably believed Mark Carneys "clear and unequivocal" warning that the UK would go into recession if the leave vote won.
Etc.
Give it a rest.

Edit - how could I forget David Cameron's speech letting us know that a leave vote might mean that Europe descends into war?

[AndyClaret]

Basically, everyone who put their name on it will vote for it, but nobody else will.

It will flush Corbyn out as well.

[Pstotto]

We now need to make a legal challenge to last night's political coup to deny Breixt unless the EU agrees. That is ceeding the power of the UK to the EU.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

I love how a second, informed referendum is seen as undemocratic by the same people who support May repeatedly trying to spam the same rotten deal through Parliament.
Hopefully today's amendments will put a stop to that.

[Pstotto]

We've had the vote. We voted Brexit. One can say ANY referendum is partial to whatever political campaign at the time, including the MP here losing his seat because of a term-time election due to massive propaganda saying free tuition fees to students.

[dsr]

Farage asking for other countries to intervene in UK politics. Be interesting to see how you lot defend this.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status ... 1655588864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you must have posted the wrong clip, because that one is Nigel Farage MEP in the European Parliament, saying what the European Parliament should do.

[Lancasterclaret]

Er, yeah, that IS exactly what he's doing.

Kinda the point

[dsr]

Er, yeah, that IS exactly what he's doing.

Kinda the point

So why does it need defending? He's telling the European Parliament what is in his opinion the best thing to do for Britain and for the EU. Are you suggesting that the EU shouldn't be voting about the proposed extension to Article 50, or are you saying it's wrong that Farage (MEP) is giving his opinion?

[SmudgetheClaret]

Where what starts??

His Ukip party barely got any traction in parliament and the way the system is rigged in favour of the two main crappy parties, I can't see either this one or that independent lot getting anywhere.

Skip maths did we ? 17.4 million people plus sensible remain voters who can clearly see we are controlled by criminals
will be looking for a voting home! if your one of the anti-democratic mob have your 5 minutes of smug feelings but then
get ready for a historic shift in politics and dont say you werent warned..

[Imploding Turtle]

I think you must have posted the wrong clip, because that one is Nigel Farage MEP in the European Parliament, saying what the European Parliament should do.

Is it the one where he spoke and then immediately walked out because he had no interest in anything anyone else had to say?

[Imploding Turtle]

It might be https://twitter.com/Esther_de_Lange/sta ... 1685045248" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, what do we call someone who, with foreign governments, works against their own country's interests? Isn't there a word for people like that?
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/ ... -1-4889246" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Skip maths did we ? 17.4 million people plus sensible remain voters who can clearly see we are controlled by criminals
will be looking for a voting home! if your one of the anti-democratic mob have your 5 minutes of smug feelings but then
get ready for a historic shift in politics and dont say you werent warned..

I'd happily see the collapse of both the Tories and Labour, neither are fit to run the country and I fully believe that it's time other parties had a chance to do it.

I'll never vote for either of the two main parties again and yes I've voted for both.

As for being controlled by criminals, do I need to wait long for proof?
They're rubbish, potentially taking back handers, cheat the expenses system and some have the odd record for relatively minor offense but criminals, all of them?,

[Imploding Turtle]

Skip maths did we ? 17.4 million people plus sensible remain voters who can clearly see we are controlled by criminals
will be looking for a voting home! if your one of the anti-democratic mob have your 5 minutes of smug feelings but then
get ready for a historic shift in politics and dont say you werent warned..

Oooh. Sounds exciting. What do you have in store for us that means we need to be warned?

[SmudgetheClaret]

I'd happily see the collapse of both the Tories and Labour, neither are fit to run the country and I fully believe that it's time other parties had a chance to do it.

I'll never vote for either of the two main parties again and yes I've voted for both.

As for being controlled by criminals, do I need to wait long for proof?
They're rubbish, potentially taking back handers, cheat the expenses system and some have the odd record for relatively minor offense but criminals, all of them?,

Ok not all of them but the ones with integrity are bullied or controlled sorry for the sharp comments but this is serious stuff..

[SmudgetheClaret]

Oooh. Sounds exciting. What do you have in store for us that means we need to be warned?

Oh have you finished your masturbating about british soldiers going to jail ?

[Imploding Turtle]

Oh have you finished your masturbating about british soldiers going to jail ?

Weird that you presume their guilt.

You going to answer my question? Of what do people like me need to be warned exactly?

[Colburn_Claret]

Well I was a shop steward at 2 large factories and had voted Labour pretty much all my life so have I moved to the right or has Labour took a train to the left ?

Been there, done it, got the T shirt, yet some people still cant see it.
It must be 4 or 5 years ago when Ed the muppet was in charge, that I first said " I never left the Labour Party, they left me".
It's got even worse since.

[aggi]

Just been looking at work at the guidance notes for UK imports from the EU in the event of a no-deal.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... orting.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a good job Brexit is going to cut out all this red tape ...

[Imploding Turtle]

Been there, done it, got the T shirt, yet some people still cant see it.
It must be 4 or 5 years ago when Ed the muppet was in charge, that I first said " I never left the Labour Party, they left me".
It's got even worse since.

Lol. You're nowhere near as extreme to the right as Smudge.

I know that's not a point you were making, but with Smudge it's definitely more a case of him leaving the party. In fact he's left mainstream politics altogether.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Ok not all of them but the ones with integrity are bullied or controlled sorry for the sharp comments but this is serious stuff..

I agree with you about them being bullied/controlled.

[Cryssys]

I'd happily see the collapse of both the Tories and Labour, neither are fit to run the country and I fully believe that it's time other parties had a chance to do it.

I'll never vote for either of the two main parties again and yes I've voted for both of them?,

The adversarial nature of British politics makes debacles like this inevitable. We are one of the few countries in the world that persist with the undemocratic and antiquated first past the post system.

You want real change? Then it's time to look at proportional representation again.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The adversarial nature of British politics makes debacles like this inevitable. We are one of the few countries in the world that persist with the undemocratic and antiquated first past the post system.

You want real change? Then it's time to look at proportional representation again.

They won't allow proportional representation to be used, they'd lose too much.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Crosspool, I've asked you this before, but who are you talking to?

Bored shitless is the main thing here as Billy says. "Bored shitless" means they just want it over, which means by definition "remain"

A bit like I tell my family, being bored is no excuse, you can simply choose to do something else. So anyone moaning about Brexit being boring could just turn off the news. Not difficult. Being worrying or frustrating - yes, I think we all feel that (though I don't generally worry, I trust the British people to make the best of anything no matter how big a Horlicks our MPs make of it).

Lots of remainers claiming they have never met anyone furious with all this, and doubting me when I say I have come across it all over the place (I have, business owners who voted leave, friends, relatives). But all you need to do is listen to phone-ins, watch Question Time etc. It isn't evidence more (or less) want to leave, but without doubt those who do are becoming far more angry and openly defiant. Remainers on QT are getting booed and shouted down every week now, even the one based in London when she suggested a People's Vote. The mood is definitely turning.

[Cryssys]

They won't allow proportional representation to be used, they'd lose too much.

We could have a (second) referendum on it.

[Imploding Turtle]

We could have a (second) referendum on it.

We haven't had a first yet.

[ClaretAndJew]

They are voting on whether to give us a referendum. Interesting.

[Imploding Turtle]

They are voting on whether to give us a referendum. Interesting.

And, hilariously, Bercow refused to allow a vote on ruling one out.

[RingoMcCartney]

John Bercow has refused to table an amendment that would block a 2nd referendum despite the strength a depth of its support.

I was right when I said his role would be pivotal. I said it in October last year.

I WAS RIGHT

[martin_p]

And, hilariously, Bercow refused to allow a vote on ruling one out.

If there’s anything going to bring Wrongo out of the woodwork that’s it! (although I suspect he’s posting on this thread under one of many aliases)

Edit - Ha!! Predictable or what

[aggi]

Lots of remainers claiming they have never met anyone furious with all this, and doubting me when I say I have come across it all over the place (I have, business owners who voted leave, friends, relatives).

I'm not doubting that you've come across it, just that your experience clearly isn't representative of the country as a whole (and neither is mine).

I don't think QT, phone-ins, etc are particularly representative. They're the super politically engaged (or halfwits, a lot of those seem to appear on radio phone-ins regardless of the topic) so it's no surprise that they're angry.

[nil_desperandum]

As i said yesterday if no deal is ruled out it is only fair to rule out the other extreme i.e. a second referendum.

That - to me - seems an odd position to take. The only way that a "no deal" can now be achieved is by having it on the ballot paper at a 2nd referendum.
I'm not keen on a 2nd referendum personally, though it might come to it, but one of the reasons that I would be worried about it, (apart from it being divisive) is that it would almost certainly put "no deal" back on the table, and it could win.

[Imploding Turtle]

Hilarious. Referendums are now "extreme".

[nil_desperandum]

John Bercow has refused to table an amendment that would block a 2nd referendum despite the strength a depth of its support.

I was right when I said his role would be pivotal. I said it in October last year.

I WAS RIGHT

Am I missing something?
There's a motion in favour of having a new referendum. MPs can vote either for or against it?
What's the point of having a 2nd vote that asks the same question in reverse?
Surely you'll get the same result?
The motion in favour will (IMO) fail, so why then have the very same MPs going through the lobbies again to come up with the same result?
I don't think I've ever been at a meeting where you would effectively vote twice on the proposal but with the question worded the opposite way round.
(I assume that this is behind Bercow's decision)

[dsr]

Is it the one where he spoke and then immediately walked out because he had no interest in anything anyone else had to say?

No idea. But as the criticism is that he shouldn't have been talking to them in the first place, then it wouldn't be compounded when he walked out.

[Lancasterclaret]

Remainers on QT are getting booed and shouted down every week now, even the one based in London when she suggested a People's Vote. The mood is definitely turning.

People shouting down opposition in QT is such a good look isn't it?

Underlying polls paint a different picture though

One thing these two years have taught me is that listening to the radio phone ins is good fun, but there are only so many ranting people with a less than perfect grasp on WTO and the EU that you can listen to.

And again, demographically, the core leave support is going to the great big Brexit in the sky. Wailing and gnashing their teeth no doubt at how bad it is we haven't left yet, but they are leaving us.

If you were as sure as keep saying so on here, you'd be right behind a 2nd ref.

[RingoMcCartney]

An independent enquiry lead by a QC to look into inappropriate sexual behaviour and bullying in the palace of Westminster, said , the culture had to change from the top. "A fish rots from its head"

Then the likes of Emily Thornbury and Margaret Beckett both openly admitted he had to be kept in place in order to "stop Brexit ".

I was told that Bercow cannot act unilaterally and choose what he wants.

He can he has.

[RingoMcCartney]

If there’s anything going to bring Wrongo out of the woodwork that’s it! (although I suspect he’s posting on this thread under one of many aliases)

Edit - Ha!! Predictable or what

You were wrong.

I was right.

Fact or what!

[Lancasterclaret]

bercow has given his reasons Ringo.

Sound plausible to be fair.

[Imploding Turtle]

No idea. But as the criticism is that he shouldn't have been talking to them in the first place, then it wouldn't be compounded when he walked out.

I don't believe that is the criticism.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

I'd happily see the collapse of both the Tories and Labour, neither are fit to run the country and I fully believe that it's time other parties had a chance to do it.

I'll never vote for either of the two main parties again and yes I've voted for both.

As for being controlled by criminals, do I need to wait long for proof?
They're rubbish, potentially taking back handers, cheat the expenses system and some have the odd record for relatively minor offense but criminals, all of them?,

Oh god, yes please!

Post-brexit Britain ruled by Farage and his gang, now that would be worth watching from afar.
I imagine we Europeans would be welcoming Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales back to the fold within the first six months.

[Pstotto]

Given that IT believes in the letter of the law and is a champion of it, surely he would agree that there ought to be a legal challenge to a political coup that denies the democratic leave vote, by ceeding all power in the matter to the EU, by voting that we can only leave if they agree to our terms or that we must agree to theirs in order to leave, thus bypassing our parliament and people.

[martin_p]

You were wrong.

I was right.

Fact or what!

Bercow has done his job, decided on which amendments to call. He hasn’t unilaterally decided to call a second referendum like you claimed he could.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

I think you Brexiters should relax, Theresa May will probably get her deal through on Tuesday, I've got a good feeling about it, I hope you've got fireworks and party hats ready

[tiger76]

Labour leavers have tabled an ammendment to kill a second referendum, signed by the DUP and tories, over 120 in total.

What a surprise this amendment not selected by our esteemed speaker John Bercow.

He happily selected the amendment for an extension of Article 50 in order to hold another referendum.

Nice to see he's showing his true colours again.

[Lancasterclaret]

Again, he's explained why.

You two do need to actually look at "why", its very important when you are trying to score points.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

What a surprise this amendment not selected by our esteemed speaker John Bercow.

He happily selected the amendment for an extension of Article 50 in order to hold another referendum.

Nice to see he's showing his true colours again.

If he did his job properly he'd stop Theresa May from having Meaningful Vote 3 after her deal has been rejected by Parliament TWICE.