Forest points deduction appeal

[dsr]

Whether you have sympathy for Forest or not, no club should be in a situation where it has no real feel for how many points might be required to stay up with 3 games to go.

Forest are in that position through their own fault. Sympathy for Burnley and Luton would be much more well found.

[dsr]

But while an outcome is expected soon there is not the same timeframe attached to an appeal decision apart from the backstop of 24 May, which is five days after the final games of the Premier League season, for all cases to be resolved.

Forest’s case will certainly be finalised before the end of the season."

So we could win the last match to go a point above Forest, and then get relegated the Friday after? This is farce.

It's normal to watch the last game with one ear to the radio to get scores from other games. But listening with the other ear for results of a court case?

What happens if either us or Luton goes into the last game believing we need a draw but find out later that we needed a win?

[FCBurnley]

Luton and Burnley should refuse to play this week ( Friday in Lutons case ) unless the FINAL decision has been announced. It is already passed its sell by date !!

[AGENT_CLARET]

Luton and Burnley should refuse to play this week ( Friday in Lutons case ) unless the FINAL decision has been announced. It is already passed its sell by date !!

They'll wait until after the weekend to see what results us and Luton pick up and the give Forest enough point's back to stay up, it's embarrassing how the is all dealt with

[agreenwood]

Like we are, you mean?

Yes. And Luton. And Forest.

We’ve got an uphill task as things stand, but it becomes virtually impossible if Forest get their points back.

The point is that kind of IF shouldn’t exist at this point. We should be able to say “x points from the last 3 games is likely to keep us up”, but we can’t. Neither can Luton. I suppose even Forest are theoretically at risk of having the penalty increased from what I’ve read, so can’t be sure what they need.

[NewClaret]

He actually said 27 as well and started to say 26 then changed it to “whatever” so I don’t think this is relevant.

Fair enough. Not how it was reported on the beeb.

[PremierLeagueClass]

The integrity of the competition is well and truly compromised, there’s no doubt about it. Burnley and Luton are potentially going into games without a clear understanding of what they need. Has a clear bearing on strategy.

[exilecanada]

They'll wait until after the weekend to see what results us and Luton pick up and the give Forest enough point's back to stay up, it's embarrassing how the is all dealt with

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the above happened. It's way beyond embarrassing, it's fixed!!

[Winstonswhite]

The integrity of the competition is well and truly compromised, there’s no doubt about it. Burnley and Luton are potentially going into games without a clear understanding of what they need. Has a clear bearing on strategy.

The bottom line is we need to win surely?!

[gandhisflipflop]

The last game of the season needs a full half of ‘premier league corrupt as ****’

[beddie]

Depending on the outcome I’ll be interested to hear if our Chairman takes litigation advice.

[alboclaret]

I don't understand why they're even in scope to get more back - they already got 2. What are the Premier League so scared of? You set the rules, you issue the punishment. Why back down after the fact? It just publicly displays their weakness and emboldens the rest of the league to continue to laugh in the face of PSR.

I am on the side of those above that the longer this draws on the clearer it becomes to me they are probably getting 1-2 points back, at least - then again, I am a perennial cynic.

It's not the premier league. The premier league wanted to give the 6 point deduction. Gave the w back for co-op.

It's now a independent panel...whatever that maybe that decides on appeal.

[jlup1980]

They'll wait until after the weekend to see what results us and Luton pick up and the give Forest enough point's back to stay up, it's embarrassing how the is all dealt with

Exactly this. I've been saying it for a while, for two reasons.

One, there's no chance they'll want the legal fallout from Forest being relegated by 4 points or less. If the situation remains "as is" after the next two matches, you'll suddenly find that Forest will have 2 points returned in order to make the last game of the season a dead rubber.

And two, they ultimately need the punishments to have little impact so that they can justify letting City and Chelsea off with similar meaningless deductions next season. They can't afford to upset the apple cart too much, or the big boys will decide that the European Super League is where they want to be... thus ending the Premier League cash cow.

[Rick_Muller]

What about the potential legal fallout from incompetence and incorrect VAR decisions? We have grounds with the Forest game. If they get points back for this we should challenge that game

[elwaclaret]

Exactly this. I've been saying it for a while, for two reasons.

One, there's no chance they'll want the legal fallout from Forest being relegated by 4 points or less. If the situation remains "as is" after the next two matches, you'll suddenly find that Forest will have 2 points returned in order to make the last game of the season a dead rubber.

And two, they ultimately need the punishments to have little impact so that they can justify letting City and Chelsea off with similar meaningless deductions next season. They can't afford to upset the apple cart too much, or the big boys will decide that the European Super League is where they want to be... thus ending the Premier League cash cow.

I think with the globalisation of sport the Premier League generally need to up their game and take control while they still can. Global fans do not consider grass roots supporters when asked if they Want Milan, Barcelona, Madrid, to play Chelsea in the same league. Once the global market ‘fans’ dominate the finance: fans who have never been to Europe, never mind the ground are putting in the money. The Premier League have been happy now to milk the cow for decades… now they have to MATTER, or wait till these mega clubs take them to the knackers yard themselves.

Unfortunately, it is likely those making the decisions will be the ones looking to jump on the next cash cow anyway…

[Woodleyclaret]

Unfortunately very bad decision on team selection have caused us our problems. Whatever happens it is ultimately down to VK and his stubborn refusal to change the goalkeeper and other key positions despite the problems in the team being glaringly obvious. I can't make the last two games at home but will be a Tottenham to witness our final away win of whats been a disappointing season but believe we will bounce back .UTC

[Dark Cloud]

If I was sitting on any independent appeals panel or indeed was in any high ranking capacity at the PL, knowing what the Forest owner is capable of when riled, I'd be thinking very carefully about my decisions surrounding this! And I'd be upgrading my doorbell camera!!

[Jakubclaret]

Depending on the outcome I’ll be interested to hear if our Chairman takes litigation advice.

Wasn't that supposed to be happening before against everton along with Leeds & Leicester & didn't we all withdraw the claim in favour of a negotiated settlement because the 3 were opposed to Everton going into administration. I'm not sure if anything came of it. We seem to excel at making loud noises about suing but when it comes down to it nothing ever seems to happen.

[Clive 1960]

the panel will probably wait until after the weekend games to make a decision especially if we and Luton lose and forest win , it just stinks alway through the league..

[burnley007]

Any indications yet as to when we'll hear anything?

Probably be announced at half time...

[jlup1980]

What about the potential legal fallout from incompetence and incorrect VAR decisions? We have grounds with the Forest game. If they get points back for this we should challenge that game

This is very true. If we only take the VAR decisions in the games between Forest, Luton and Burnley we'd be pretty home and dry by now. Two draws that should have been Burnley wins. Suddenly Luton are on 24, Forest on 25, Burnley on 28.

[CrosspoolClarets]

This is very true. If we only take the VAR decisions in the games between Forest, Luton and Burnley we'd be pretty home and dry by now. Two draws that should have been Burnley wins. Suddenly Luton are on 24, Forest on 25, Burnley on 28.

Important thing to remember here rather than going down that rabbit hole (which we all do) is that it happens every season, remember all those years without Dyche being given a penalty?

The key difference is the way teams like us get shafted on VAR now. Without VAR we beat Forest because Jones gave the goal. Without VAR we draw or even beat Bournemouth with the tight offside allowed by the assistant. Luton is unclear because the ref gave the goal, but we know VAR psychologically prevents them giving firm decisions. On other occasions there were clear pens with VAR bizarrely not helping.

So I tend to have the view that VAR gives the bigger clubs 2 chances to get a decision, and 2 chances to shaft the likes of us. Our rivals have grumbles too, its just that our affected games include depriving hard fought wins against them.

[jlup1980]

Important thing to remember here rather than going down that rabbit hole (which we all do) is that it happens every season, remember all those years without Dyche being given a penalty?

The key difference is the way teams like us get shafted on VAR now. Without VAR we beat Forest because Jones gave the goal. Without VAR we draw or even beat Bournemouth with the tight offside allowed by the assistant. Luton is unclear because the ref gave the goal, but we know VAR psychologically prevents them giving firm decisions. On other occasions there were clear pens with VAR bizarrely not helping.

So I tend to have the view that VAR gives the bigger clubs 2 chances to get a decision, and 2 chances to shaft the likes of us. Our rivals have grumbles too, its just that our affected games include depriving hard fought wins against them.

I try not to get dragged down the rabbit hole, but sometimes it happens. The way Forest have acted in recent weeks is shameful and shows how desperate they are to survive. The tweet after the Everton game was nothing more than a cheap attempt to influence decisions in their remaining games. I'd accepted relegation long ago but now I genuinely want us to relegate them on the final day. It's like they're the only ones who've suffered this season, but for every genuinely poor decision they've had against them we can easily counter with shockers of our own.

We all know VAR doesn't work. We're as unlikely to get decisions as we were before it was brought in. Most of the changes brought in are used in such a way that it benefits the few. It's a shame it doesn't get called out more. Wolves have arguably had the most poor decisions against them this season. Can you imagine if City, Liverpool, United, Arsenal etc got those calls against them. They'd be crying conspiracy after the first one!

[Dark Cloud]

I was fully expecting some kind of charge to be brought against Forest over their online rant the other week. I'm not saying I'm hoping for more points deducted or anything (although it would be nice!) but I just thought for us to sit in the pub crying foul, cheating and corruption or even coming on here and doing it is one thing, but for a club to "officially" post what they did surely attracts some kind of disciplinary charge. Or am I wrong?

[StuffyClaret]

Coincidentally it has just been announced that Clattenburg has left his post with Notts Forest

[CrosspoolClarets]

Clattenberg’s statement implies to me that he was intending to advise internally how refs make decisions but it turned into being used to influence things externally. May not be a correct take but is the one I made reading it.

Be interesting to see if they get (or need) a decision tomorrow now when they play in Sheffield.

[claretdj]

It's going to be next week now before we here anything, which is farcical to ourselves & Luton tbh.

[AGENT_CLARET]

It's going to be next week now before we here anything, which is farcical to ourselves & Luton tbh.

Football in this county is farcical now

[Kevwando]

Nuno & Neco Williams have been charged with misconduct from the Everton game.

[Swizzlestick]

Their appeal failed.

[Swizzlestick]

https://theathletic.com/5448857/2024/05 ... deduction/

[daveisaclaret]

Feels genuinely sinister that they delayed the decision until the exact moment it didn't really matter. Probably there's good reason for it, but feels sinister.

[jedi_master]

All set up for us to somehow win at Spurs and them to lose to Chelsea.

Imagine

[IanMcL]

Could have been six but four because they were nice about it....what about reverting to the six as they blasted the prem and the refs/var?

[ClaretPete001]

All set up for us to somehow win at Spurs and them to lose to Chelsea.

Imagine

I can manage to accept that Hobbits live in middle earth but that's stretching it a bit...!

[bfcjg]

All set up for us to somehow win at Spurs and them to lose to Chelsea.

Imagine

Does the line from Imagine " you may say I'm a dreamer "
Apply to you ?

[Poulton-le-Claret]

BBC News - Monday Night club discuss Premier League Points deductions - BBC Sport

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 4k2p4e1ypo

Not often I will say Sutton talking some sense.

[Rick_Muller]

Does the line from Imagine " you may say I'm a dreamer "
Apply to you ?

they're not the only one...

[miele-man]

Appeal turned down , so it’s still possible,although I think I’d rather be playing Leeds, Rovers, Preston etc.

[FCBurnley]

So the points deductions to Everton and Forest have made no difference whatsoever to them. Well that’s a great deterrent for all other teams not to cheat the system NOT !!!! B

[CrosspoolClarets]

The only thing I know for 100% fact in this farce is that if things go as expected next Saturday my seats will be empty when we play Forest. No way I am subjecting myself to 90 minutes of goading from their fans and that Greek chap conducting the orchestra from the director’s box. I’d rather book myself in for a barium enema or some other equally unpleasant task.

If we are down but Luton could survive, I suspect we will pragmatically throw the game. I ain’t watching it for that reason too.

[burnley007]

The only thing I know for 100% fact in this farce is that if things go as expected next Saturday my seats will be empty when we play Forest. No way I am subjecting myself to 90 minutes of goading from their fans and that Greek chap conducting the orchestra from the director’s box. I’d rather book myself in for a barium enema or some other equally unpleasant task.

If we are down but Luton could survive, I suspect we will pragmatically throw the game. I ain’t watching it for that reason too.

That would really paint an ugly picture for the Premier league. Not that they would care.

[Jakubclaret]

So the points deductions to Everton and Forest have made no difference whatsoever to them. Well that’s a great deterrent for all other teams not to cheat the system NOT !!!! B

It should have a made a difference to us I can't think of any other season when you are gifted not 1 but 2 relegation rivals being docked points & barring 2 wins & other combinations it hasn't helped us that for me is the sad part.

[ksrclaret]

It should have a made a difference to us I can't think of any other season when you are gifted not 1 but 2 relegation rivals being docked points & barring 2 wins & other combinations it hasn't helped us that for me is the sad part.

Yep. It’s absolutely pathetic that we’re effectively relegated with 2 games left and two of our rivals have had points deductions.

I’m sure the sanctions were intended to act as a deterrent but they can’t legislate for how utterly shite we are.

[aggi]

So the points deductions to Everton and Forest have made no difference whatsoever to them. Well that’s a great deterrent for all other teams not to cheat the system NOT !!!! B

Forest could still go down at the moment. Without the points deduction they'd be safe already so a bit early to say no difference.

For Everton it may well cost them £5m or so.

[Clive 1960]

we are where we are because of the manager picking young lad's for a man's job in the Premier league and changing the team when it was to late..

[pureclaret]

At risk of it could be us next week, if the football autorities really wanted to clamp down then the points deduction should be fixed in stone that once you have broken the rules you get ex number no apeal or if an apeal and not found to have been given wrongly then additional points deduction.
Everton should have had the first 10pts deduction then with the 2nd breach 10pts plus automatic relegation.
Forrest 10 pts deduction then lose apeal 5 further pts deduction.
I understand that we have not been as good as we would have liked but when teams cheat and stay up thats not going to stop teams cheating in the future. As i said VK also said about City becareful what you wish for. I may have to beg forgiveness if we gat a points deduction for over spending

[CrosspoolClarets]

It should have a made a difference to us I can't think of any other season when you are gifted not 1 but 2 relegation rivals being docked points & barring 2 wins & other combinations it hasn't helped us that for me is the sad part.

Everton are not a rival though, Dyche has them nearly top half if we give them their points back. Forest have only had 4 taken off, which is only 1 more than the swing against us by that Darren England decision at Forest. It is no punishment, they are 7 behind Brentford in 16th so won’t even lose prize money.

So really I don’t see it as a sad indictment on us. We should still have got more points of course, that IS on us, no doubts, but the deduction thing was a mild slap on the wrist, no more.

[quoonbeatz]

I don't really care about any effects on us in this, the only punishment for both Everton and forest should have been relegation. This is a league that doesn't just apply non-punishments, it actively encourages cheating, both on and off the pitch. Glad we'll be out of it next season. The whole premier league needs massive reform but that's never happening now.

[Chester Perry]

Everton are not a rival though, Dyche has them nearly top half if we give them their points back.

Burnley literally gave them 6 points tbf