More post brexit referendum good news!!!!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:24 pm

Cryssys wrote:You asked for facts Ringo and the facts prove your statement to be incorrect. I fail to see anything desperate in that.

I don't doubt you do!!!

My statement was - "Show me another UK wide popular vote where one side got 17.4 million votes."

And you desparately went on about the percentage turnout of the 1950 general election!!!!!

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:30 pm

Cryssys wrote:You asked for facts Ringo and the facts prove your statement to be incorrect. I fail to see anything desperate in that.

I refer you to post #250 on this thread.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:31 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
It's that EXPERIENCE on which I chose to vote Leave in the biggest expression of democracy the UK has ever seen.

No, that's what you said you clown

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:36 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I don't doubt you do!!

My statement was - "Show me another UK wide popular vote where one side got 17.4 million votes.":

Why do you always lie?

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:48 pm

[quote="RingoMcCartney"]I don't doubt you do!!!

My statement was - "Show me another UK wide popular vote where one side got 17.4 million votes."

quote]

No it wasn't Ringo.

Your statement was " I chose to vote Leave in the biggest expression of democracy the UK has ever seen."

I proved that it wasn't the biggest expression of democracy the UK has ever seen. The only thing that is desperate here is your refusal to acknowledge the facts because you don't like them.

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:50 pm

You lost Ringo. Man up and get over it.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:51 pm

I've never seen anyone as blatantly thick as Ringo on the internet before.

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:56 pm

none of us, no politician, no 'expert' knows what's going to happen re brexit. the message is [especially to those who wanted us to remain in the EU] - it's the not knowing that kills! stop stressing about it. it will happen or not, whatever it is [or isn't].

crisis?what....

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:05 pm

Cryssys wrote:

You could argue it both ways. There were 33m votes in 2016, only 29m in the 1950 general election.

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:32 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:I've never seen anyone as blatantly thick as Ringo on the internet before.

I think that naïve and immature best describe Ringo. He refuses to believe he could be wrong, ignores anything that doesn't support his agenda and seems to believe that if he says something over and over again it will magically become true, or better still, a fact.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:35 pm

Cryssys wrote:I think that naïve and immature best describe Ringo. He refuses to believe he could be wrong, ignores anything that doesn't support his agenda and seems to believe that if he says something over and over again it will magically become true, or better still, a fact.

Did you just describe IT and UTB?

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:38 pm

dsr wrote:You could argue it both ways. There were 33m votes in 2016, only 29m in the 1950 general election.

Irrelevant in this context. Any sensible definition of the biggest expression of democracy must be based on the % of the available electorate that actually voted. As such, 83.9% turnout trumps a 72.2% turnout.

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:42 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Did you just describe IT and UTB?

No. Read my post again, I was quite clearly describing Ringo.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:47 pm

[quote="Cryssys"][/quote]

"Show me another UK wide popular vote where one side got 17.4 million votes."

Did I or did I not say it!? (Have a look back at post 1394)

And your reply was the percentage turnout of the 1950 general election!

I know you were desparately scrabbling round to find an example but you won't. And how do I know you won't? Because never in the history of UK democracy has one side received more!! It's so simple!!

I could say, to save your blushes, I'll give you time to scrabble round a little while longer. But there's absolutely no point!. Its the highest. Ever!

Come on Cryssys At Christmas! Join in!!

17.4, 17 4 UNDEFEATED

17.4 17.4 I SAY

17.4 17.4 UNDEFEATED

EMBARRASSING YOURSELF IN SUCH AN AMUSING WAY!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:49 pm

Cryssys wrote:Irrelevant in this context. Any sensible definition of the biggest expression of democracy must be based on the % of the available electorate that actually voted. As such, 83.9% turnout trumps a 72.2% turnout.

Desparate! Absolutely desparate!!!

Come on Cryssys At Christmas! There's a game on tonight you know!!!

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:57 pm

Let’s hope Nick Pope is allowed to move the goalposts as far as Ringo does if things aren’t going his way. At some point he’ll be saying it’s just his opportunity opinion anyway, so any facts you use against him will be declared irrelevant.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:06 pm

martin_p wrote:Let’s hope Nick Pope is allowed to move the goalposts as far as Ringo does if things aren’t going his way. At some point he’ll be saying it’s just his opportunity opinion anyway, so any facts you use against him will be declared irrelevant.

Hey Mr Evidence is here!!!

Everybody else only has opinions. Martin has evidence. When asked to provide the evidence, "doh, I've misplaced the keys to the Delorean. Again!!!!"

You hang on in there tiger!

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:10 pm

We have meltdown.

Either that or the Dingo's exclamation mark and laughing emoji keys have jammed again.

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:15 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
It's that EXPERIENCE on which I chose to vote Leave in the biggest expression of democracy the UK has ever seen.

OK one last time Ringo. In response to the above, post 1388, I replied by providing a fact which proved your statement that the vote was the biggest expression of democracy the UK has ever seen. was wrong. It doesn't matter that it was some time ago, its still a fact and it proves you're statement was wrong.

The fact that you are unable to accept this only serves to demonstrate just how immature you really are, as does your childish use of emojis, exclamation marks and playground petty insults. Your continued misspelling of desparate (sic) even when it's been pointed out to you just confirms a lack of attention and an inability to learn from earlier mistakes.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:31 pm

Careful Cryssys, he’ll be warming up his ‘I don’t talk to idiots’ zinger! No one wants to be in the end of that sort of razor sharp wit!

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:44 pm

Cryssys wrote:OK one last time Ringo. In response to the above, post 1388, I replied by providing a fact which proved your statement that the vote was the biggest expression of democracy the UK has ever seen. was wrong. It doesn't matter that it was some time ago, its still a fact and it proves you're statement was wrong.

The fact that you are unable to accept this only serves to demonstrate just how immature you really are, as does your childish use of emojis, exclamation marks and playground petty insults. Your continued misspelling of desparate (sic) even when it's been pointed out to you just confirms a lack of attention and an inability to learn from earlier mistakes.

Hi Cryssys, I don't want to get involved with your debate. If I was debating the issue of "biggest expression of democracy" I'd be considering (1) the nature of the vote: is a single issue referendum a bigger expression than a multiple issue, multiple candidates, multiple parties general election? (2) what is "bigger" the absolute number of votes cast, the absolute number of votes cast for one point of view, or should we replace "absolute" for "percentages?"

I'm not judging either way - but feel these issues should be included in the debate.

That's me finished on the question that at primary school came down to "my Dad is bigger than your Dad."

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:48 pm

Cryssys wrote:OK one last time Ringo. In response to the above, post 1388, I replied by providing a fact which proved your statement that the vote was the biggest expression of democracy the UK has ever seen. was wrong. It doesn't matter that it was some time ago, its still a fact and it proves you're statement was wrong.

The fact that you are unable to accept this only serves to demonstrate just how immature you really are, as does your childish use of emojis, exclamation marks and playground petty insults. Your continued misspelling of desparate (sic) even when it's been pointed out to you just confirms a lack of attention and an inability to learn from earlier mistakes.

Cryssys At Christmas - Just like post 1394 never actually happened!

Christmas has come early for Ringo!!

I know it's pantomime season but come on!!

"Show me another UK wide popular vote where one side got 17.4 million votes." Ringo McCartney

"The turn out for the 1950 general election you was 86% you know!" Cryssys At Christmas.

That's the right answer to a completely different question!!

Like when Eric Morecambe plays the song really badly. Ernie Wise points out that that, "you're playing all the wrong notes."

Eric replies, "there not the wrong notes. They're just not in the right order!!!!"

Like the comedy legends, Morecambe and wise. You should get your own Christmas special!

And now on BBC 1, fun for all the family, it's the show where you get the right answer to the question. But not necessarily in the order you expected! It's the Cryssys At Christmas Special!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:52 pm

Especially for you Cryssys At Christmas!

https://youtu.be/y0C59pI_ypQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Enjoy at your leisure! I'm of t't turf.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:55 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Cryssys At Christmas - Just like post 1394 never actually happened!

Christmas has come early for Ringo!!

I know it's pantomime season but come on!!

"Show me another UK wide popular vote where one side got 17.4 million votes." Ringo McCartney

"The turn out for the 1950 general election you was 86% you know!" Cryssys At Christmas.

That's the right answer to a completely different question!! :lol

Well yes, it’s an answer to what you originally claimed, not what you said when proved wrong and then changed the question.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:58 pm

Rand Corporation, anyone read their report? I've taken a look at the summary.

It seems that Rand did all their work before EU/UK "agreements" (can we call last Friday's positions agreed positions). So, I'm guessing that they've rushed it out quickly, though based on where we are today, whatever Rand had researched, already appears to have been "overtaken by more recent events."

But, it appears that the media is focusing on their "worst case" scenario - which already seems to be a "not going to happen" scenario. That's the difficulty of economic modelling - choose the wrong scenarios (and many of these choices aren't, in any case, based on "economic expertise") and the outcomes of your model are of "no value."

I recommend the "experts" spend more time highlighting all the scenarios (we can also call them "assumptions") that they use in their economic forecasting models, and that they highlight the range of outcomes and, if they can the probability of these outcomes.

We are all getting used to the use of stats in football, "expected goals" and probabilities of different results. What Rand have done in economic modelling terms is projected 10 Premier League seasons and said where "Team UK" will be at the end of these 10 seasons. If we take a "glass half full" approach to life, 10 years ago, we would not have expected Burnley to feature in the Premier League; we are now in our 4th Premier League season - and heading towards our 5th (and, I hope many, many more).

Let's enjoy tonight's game.

UTC

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:01 pm

And - after the excitement of tonight's football - I've read a little more of Rand's "After Brexit" report. My conclusion: it's in support of the US gov't - who want TTIP with EU. To help their cause, they present scenarios that say that the UK will be better off if there is EU-UK-USA tri-party agreement. The rest is, in my opinion, pretty superficial. Not what I'd call an "expert's view" on economic prospects of UK post-brexit.

As you were, everybody.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:44 am

more good brexit news last night, eh gang?

nice to see that there are actually some decent, upstanding tory MPs out there.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:24 am

Just increases the narrative that there isn't a mandate for a hard brexit, and there never has been.

Next to go will be this stupid "we leave in this date come what may" clause.

Do it properly with minimal disruption, or don't do it at all.

upanatem · Post by **upanatem** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:00 am

Paul Waine wrote:Rand Corporation, anyone read their report? I've taken a look at the summary.

It seems that Rand did all their work before EU/UK "agreements" (can we call last Friday's positions agreed positions). So, I'm guessing that they've rushed it out quickly, though based on where we are today, whatever Rand had researched, already appears to have been "overtaken by more recent events."

But, it appears that the media is focusing on their "worst case" scenario - which already seems to be a "not going to happen" scenario. That's the difficulty of economic modelling - choose the wrong scenarios (and many of these choices aren't, in any case, based on "economic expertise") and the outcomes of your model are of "no value."

I recommend the "experts" spend more time highlighting all the scenarios (we can also call them "assumptions") that they use in their economic forecasting models, and that they highlight the range of outcomes and, if they can the probability of these outcomes.

We are all getting used to the use of stats in football, "expected goals" and probabilities of different results. What Rand have done in economic modelling terms is projected 10 Premier League seasons and said where "Team UK" will be at the end of these 10 seasons. If we take a "glass half full" approach to life, 10 years ago, we would not have expected Burnley to feature in the Premier League; we are now in our 4th Premier League season - and heading towards our 5th (and, I hope many, many more).

Let's enjoy tonight's game.

UTC

Hi Paul,

I was visiting a client yesterday and spent a considerable time in my car. I was listening to 5Live and there was a discussion on Brexit. Lord Lawson (a Brexiteer) was a guest and the interviewer questioned him about the Rand Report. He dismissed it on 2 counts, firstly in that the modelling was incorrect (and hence it reaches incorrect conclusions similar to the Treasury's/GO's/everyone else's pre-Brexit) and secondly, he mentioned it was heavily funded by the EU. I don't know whether this is correct or not, but if so, could explain a few things.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:01 am

The reaction from the likes of Farage, Julia Hartley-Brewer and the Daily Mail have been predictably hilarious.

Well done to those MP's who stood up for our parliamentary democracy.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:37 am

I see the Daily Mail have gone with a measured front page as always

Quite like the one from The National

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:47 am

I know this is serious stuff but sometimes it's really hard not to laugh at the way Brexshit is going.

Strong and stable anyone?

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:02 am

I can’t see why some of the leavers are getting their knickers in a twist over this. I thought they were all for democracy?

bpgburn · Post by **bpgburn** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:21 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:I've never seen anyone as blatantly thick as Ringo on the internet before.

Try taking the the anti-reflection screen off your monitor/laptop...

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:34 am

bpgburn wrote:Try taking the the anti-reflection screen off your monitor/laptop...

Now that is a bpg burn

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:37 am

Lord Lawson the climate change denier?

Yesh, he's spot on with his facts at all times. Famous for it in fact.

This is where I kinda agree with Ringo, its just a projection of where we are going to be. Where I differ from Ringo is that its the latest in a long line of projections all saying the same thing. Which does suggest whether you wear a tin foil hat and trust nothing, or that they might have a point.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:39 am

Quite a good summary of where we are

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 2542493696" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:13 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:I can’t see why some of the leavers are getting their knickers in a twist over this. I thought they were all for democracy?

And sovereignty, they're big on that (ish).

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:15 pm

Ringo will be on soon complaining about unelected MPs riding roughshod over English people or something

"I can't remember voting for Ken Clarke" or something

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:17 pm

Julia Hartley-Brewer went a bit too far this morning in her twitter rant about the people deciding, not parliament

She got it pointed out to her that meant endorsing a 2nd referendum on it, and everyone else who pointed that out also pointed out that surely taking back control and democracy was the whole point?

She's not thick by any means, but it does make you wonder what political system she has in mind.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:30 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Ringo will be on soon complaining about unelected MPs riding roughshod over English people or something

"I can't remember voting for Ken Clarke" or something

Did you see the name Clarke on your ballot paper?

Answer - No.

Conclusion - he is not elected by the People of the UK

TractorFace · Post by **TractorFace** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:45 pm

I'm so confused, mind you, it doesn't take much...

Anyway, I'm confused as to why the Brexiteers continually bang on about taking back control, but somehow they don't want to involve our British parliament in having a say in how we should take back control. Like I said, it's so confusing, or maybe I'm getting 'confused' mixed up with hypocrisy.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:50 pm

The people who want to take back control want control to do what they want.

They called an election to make sure they got that, and didn't, but they keep thinking that people really, really, really want their vision of Britain.

Not nearly enough do, and as long as these mentalists keep pressing for thier uber-brexit, the chances of no brexit at all actually increases as people realise just how misled they have been.

So keep going Daily Mail, JHB, Rees-Mogg and Farage (his "I hate career politicians" was the highlight of a good day for **** taking), you are destroying your own creation.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:55 pm

309 plays 305, She shouldn't accept the result of that vote, its very close. That's how things work in Brexit Democracy Britain isn't it !?!?!?!

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:01 pm

aggi wrote:Did you see the name Clarke on your ballot paper?

Answer - No.

Conclusion - he is not elected by the People of the UK

How did he become a member of Parliament then? Did he just walk in off the street?

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:03 pm

Be they robbers, rapists, pick pockets, druggies etc the unwanted of Europe can stay, that's why the EU wants us in and subservient they can put onto trains the people costing their country money we have to have them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42354864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:10 pm

No deal is back on then?
Funny how excited the remainers are at that prospect today. I thought hard Brexit was the last thing you wanted

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:13 pm

Cryssys wrote:I know this is serious stuff but sometimes it's really hard not to laugh at the way Brexshit is going.

Strong and stable anyone?

Coalition of chaos?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:18 pm

It's hilarious to me how many of the people were making the (false) argument that the EU is undemocratic and we should take back our own sovereignty are so quick to complain about our parliament doing the "wrong" thing and argue that the PM should be given dictatorial powers to force through the kind of Brexit for which there is no democratic mandate.

But don't call them stupid, deluded, or hypocritical because these anti-PC warriors would get terrible hurt and upset by you being mean to them.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:24 pm

Over time it's become increasing clear that Brexit negotiations will result in a deal leaving things almost exactly as they are now, only with less say in EU policies. This would be a completely stupid outcome that offers no merit whatsoever.

I think there is a case for abandoning negotiations, hold a second referendum, but make it clear what the options are: Remain or Hard Brexit (WTO rules, hard NI border, and all the rest of it). Also make the result legally binding.

I don't know which side would win, I don't even know which way I'd vote, but it would be very, very close.