Transfer Rumours Thread - NO FINANCIAL DISCUSSION

[claretonthecoast1882]

Care to name a position we've upgraded?

Centre mid ?

Cullen for Stephens

[Granny WeatherWax]

Care to name a position we've upgraded?

CM / ACM

[quoonbeatz]

Care to name a position we've upgraded?

Central midfield. I've never seen either of the 2 new lads play but they are better than Dale Stephens.

[Lancasterclaret]

Centre mid ?

Cullen for Stephens

[Vegas Claret]

Care to name a position we've upgraded?

I've not seen a single one of them play but as it stands CJ Egan Riley and THB have both played at a higher level than Mee and Tarkowski. I would be astounded if Cullen and Bastien aren't a technical upgrade on who they will replace. Twine will score more than Weghorst I would imagine. I can't remember who else we've signed tbh there's been that many

[Lancasterclaret]

Ok, they have to be better than Dale Stephens!

Its not a critical post by me btw, but we are transitioning from a premier league team built on a very strong defence and limited ball possession to one that is going to be completely different in the league below so I'd expect us to downgrade in a hell of a lot of positions

[claretonthecoast1882]

Ok, they have to be better than Dale Stephens!

Its not a critical post by me btw, but we are transitioning from a premier league team built on a very strong defence and limited ball possession to one that is going to be completely different in the league below so I'd expect us to downgrade in a hell of a lot of positions

Would you say the teams we will play next season will be a downgrade on last season ?

[KRBFC]

Talk about lack of loyalty, Eriksen snubbed Brentford to sign for Man U.

What a joke, Brentford the club to take the risk on him when others (Man U included) wouldn't, few good games and suddenly Man United are prepared to sign him and he's off instantly. He could have even signed a 1 year Brentford deal with a £15m release clause.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Not cut out for the Championship apparently

He like Weghorst was never going to want to play in the Championship. Quicker a deal is done better for all parties.

[Vegas Claret]

Talk about lack of loyalty, Eriksen snubbed Brentford to sign for Man U.

What a joke, Brentford the club to take the risk on him when others (Man U included) wouldn't, few good games and suddenly Man United are prepared to sign him and he's off instantly. He could have even signed a 1 year Brentford deal with a £15m release clause.

I hope Brentford finish bottom after their 'attempts' to beat Leeds

[Rileybobs]

how do you work out we've downgraded every position ?

Pope > nobody
Hennessey > nobody
Weghorst > nobody
Tarkowski > Harwood Bellis
Mee > McNally
Collins > Egan Riley

Stephens < Cullen/Bastion - not seen either play but have no problem with this

If this happens;
Cornet > Twine

So we’ve potentially upgraded in midfield. We certainly have in terms of numbers, but not necessarily with quality. Everywhere else we’ve downgraded.

We’re losing quality at an alarming rate.

[DCWat]

I hope Brentford finish bottom after their 'attempts' to beat Leeds

If that’s one place below Leeds and two below Everton, I’ll be made up.

[KRBFC]

He like Weghorst was never going to want to play in the Championship. Quicker a deal is done better for all parties.

Seems pretty happy here, said he loved playing in a forward role instead of being a sub/punted out to left back/left wing back. I think he'd be happy to stay here for 1 year then see what happens next summer, I don't think he'll be given a choice though, ALK will punt him out the door as soon as a bid is put on the table.

[RVclaret]

Pope > nobody
Hennessey > nobody
Weghorst > nobody
Tarkowski > Harwood Bellis
Mee > McNally
Collins > Egan Riley

Stephens < Cullen/Bastion - not seen either play but have no problem with this

If this happens;
Cornet > Twine

So we’ve potentially upgraded in midfield. We certainly have in terms of numbers, but not necessarily with quality. Everywhere else we’ve downgraded.

We’re losing quality at an alarming rate.

But as has been pointed out, we are also ‘downgrading’ quite significantly the level of opposition we are facing - the gap between the PL and Champ has arguably never been bigger. And we are currently by far the biggest spenders in the league to bring in players who, according to many other club fans / pundits, are impressive for this level.

[Devils_Advocate]

There is some negotiation to be had though - a couple of clubs could meet the clause but one may offer us more up front.

If a couple of clubs meet the clause there is zero negotiation with us to be done as we have no choice between the two clubs. The choice would lie squarely with Cornet so any negotiations beyond meeting the clause would be around how much money they are going to offer him to choose them.

[Vegas Claret]

Pope > nobody
Hennessey > nobody
Weghorst > nobody
Tarkowski > Harwood Bellis
Mee > McNally
Collins > Egan Riley

Stephens < Cullen/Bastion - not seen either play but have no problem with this

If this happens;
Cornet > Twine

So we’ve potentially upgraded in midfield. We certainly have in terms of numbers, but not necessarily with quality. Everywhere else we’ve downgraded.

We’re losing quality at an alarming rate.

No, you think we are losing quality at an alarming rate, like the rest of us you've no real idea at this point. Mee and Tarkowski's distribution was bang average on a good day, THB could easily be as good if not better than Collins. I'd suggest we give it 6 months before we write off players, manager, playing style, owner, price of twix.

[RVclaret]

If a couple of clubs meet the clause there is zero negotiation with us to be done as we have no choice between the two clubs. The choice would lie squarely with Cornet so any negotiations beyond meeting the clause would be around how much money they are going to offer him to choose them.

Not sure - depends what the clause actually says. The clause specifics might be that you have to pay at least 50% up front (this is what Newc did with Wood for example). Otherwise, what’s stopping a club from paying £1 now and the rest whenever they feel like it?

[Rileybobs]

But as has been pointed out, we are also ‘downgrading’ quite significantly the level of opposition we are facing - the gap between the PL and Champ has arguably never been bigger. And we are currently by far the biggest spenders in the league to bring in players who, according to many other club fans / pundits, are impressive for this level.

Of course the level of opposition is lower. But for every player we downgrade on we are reducing our chances of returning to the PL. The only reason we are one of the favourites for promotion is the current quality in our squad. That seems to be reducing by the day. I’m not sure why anybody would be happy with a player like Cornet leaving.

The cynic in me would also wonder why, if there was a real aim within the group of an instant promotion, why some of these players aren’t keen enough to stick around to try and achieve it.

[Lancasterclaret]

Would you say the teams we will play next season will be a downgrade on last season ?

Of course they are a downgrade on what we played last season, but the question is more are our signings plus who we have kept enough of an upgrade on them so that we are challenging at this level

I'm not against the policy btw (as i've said repeatedly on here) but it is risky and we just don't know

[Vegas Claret]

I’m not sure why anybody would be happy with a player like Cornet leaving.

seriously, show me a single person who wants Cornet to leave ?! We live in the real world where the big teams will sign the better players from the league below - just like we've done with Twine

[Rileybobs]

No, you think we are losing quality at an alarming rate, like the rest of us you've no real idea at this point. Mee and Tarkowski's distribution was bang average on a good day, THB could easily be as good if not better than Collins. I'd suggest we give it 6 months before we write off players, manager, playing style, owner, price of twix.

If THB was better than Tarkowski and Collins then he would be at Everton or Wolves. And we are only loaning him - so all this previous talk about kicking the can down the road is interesting - because we’ve just lost 3 very decent centre backs and the closest we’ve come to replacing any of them is with a loan signing.

I really think some of you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you’re expecting these signings to be better than those who have left for better things.

[Vegas Claret]

If THB was better than Tarkowski and Collins then he would be at Everton or Wolves. And we are only loaning him - so all this previous talk about kicking the can down the road is interesting - because we’ve just lost 3 very decent centre backs and the closest we’ve come to replacing any of them is with a loan signing.

I really think some of you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you’re expecting these signings to be better than those who have left for better things.

yeah there's a reason City will only loan him out though........

[Rileybobs]

seriously, show me a single person who wants Cornet to leave ?!

Well, I remember that time about half an hour ago when you said;

’Whilst Cornet would be a top player in the Championship he's not cut out for 46 games, take the money and get some more fresh faces in’

Sounds like someone who was pretty happy for Cornet to leave. There are also comments by other posters which I don’t need to quote again - just read yourself.

[Vegas Claret]

Well, I remember that time about half an hour ago when you said;

’Whilst Cornet would be a top player in the Championship he's not cut out for 46 games, take the money and get some more fresh faces in’

Sounds like someone who was pretty happy for Cornet to leave. There are also comments by other posters which I don’t need to quote again - just read yourself.

Well considering how may games he missed in the PL I think it's a pretty factual statement - doesn't mean I'd choose for him to leave though in any way shape or form.

I for one am seeing the club heading in a fresh and exciting new direction and I'm not expecting instant results.
With that, I'm done, your negativity is beyond depressing.

[Devils_Advocate]

Not sure - depends what the clause actually says. The clause specifics might be that you have to pay at least 50% up front (this is what Newc did with Wood for example). Otherwise, what’s stopping a club from paying £1 now and the rest whenever they feel like it?

But in that case the club will not have met the release clause. The comment was if a couple of clubs meet the clause then there could be still more negotiation to be done. Thats not the case as once the clause has been met then anything beyond that is out of our control

[Steddyman]

Since it is Everton asking, how about instead of buy now pay later, we do pay double now and we won't sue you later.

[Tinribs]

Pope > nobody
Hennessey > nobody
Weghorst > nobody
Tarkowski > Harwood Bellis
Mee > McNally
Collins > Egan Riley

Stephens < Cullen/Bastion - not seen either play but have no problem with this

If this happens;
Cornet > Twine

Aye we had a cracking squad didn’t we?,sure during the 2021 calendar year we racked up less points than 91 other clubs.
Bring in these new lads I say,can’t wait to see them progress.Sounds like we have a cracking set of coaches and a manager who develops players,I couldn’t give a stuff if we don’t go up next season.Judging by some of the rubbish posted on here I just hope Kompany and the team are given time and patience by our supporters.

So we’ve potentially upgraded in midfield. We certainly have in terms of numbers, but not necessarily with quality. Everywhere else we’ve downgraded.

We’re losing quality at an alarming rate.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Judging by The Athletic’s report on Collins, we need to sell, as well as the player preferring to move.

Any contract clause won’t just have a value, it will have stages of timing, e.g. if a side offered £17.5m, all payable in 10 years, that would be no use.

I’m sure there is some scope for negotiation to suit the cash flow needs of both clubs, if the exact terms of the clause aren’t yet met. I’ll be gutted though if he goes for less, he would seem perfect for Vincent’s system and I reckon would have 30 goals at this level.

[quoonbeatz]

If a couple of clubs meet the clause there is zero negotiation with us to be done as we have no choice between the two clubs. The choice would lie squarely with Cornet so any negotiations beyond meeting the clause would be around how much money they are going to offer him to choose them.

Sorry, didn't really explain myself very well. There can be conditions in the release clause itself around how the clause is met. Largely irrelevant as it doesn't stop the player leaving obviously.

[spt_claret]

I've not seen a single one of them play but as it stands CJ Egan Riley and THB have both played at a higher level than Mee and Tarkowski.

Tarkowski has played for England. Both Mee and Tarkowski have played in Europe for us.
CJ Egan Riley played 1 game in the Champions League for Man City vs Sporting Lisbon, after they'd won the first leg 5-0.
Taylor Harwood Bellis played 8 minutes in a Champions League game against Zagrb when they were 4-1 up, and 3 Conference LEague qualifiers for Anderlecht.

To present a collective 98 minutes as them having played at a higher level is a tad disingenous and relies on the technicality that they have featured in the Champions League. They may well be very good players in time but it's absurd to pretend they have a better pedigree than Mee & Tarkowski or have in any real way higher level experience.

[Newcastleclaret93]

yeah there's a reason City will only loan him out though........

Because they make good profit on him? Then will eventually sell him to either a championship side or low end prem team.

[TsarBomba]

Pope > nobody
Hennessey > nobody
Weghorst > nobody
Tarkowski > Harwood Bellis
Mee > McNally
Collins > Egan Riley

Stephens < Cullen/Bastion - not seen either play but have no problem with this

If this happens;
Cornet > Twine

So we’ve potentially upgraded in midfield. We certainly have in terms of numbers, but not necessarily with quality. Everywhere else we’ve downgraded.

We’re losing quality at an alarming rate.

Are you being serious?

So we get relegated, lose our best players (which is what happens), and you expect us to replace like for like?

Be reasonable.

[Les Lawrence]

Go on Lancaster, Mr Positive. Bet you don't like the new kit, the flashing advertising boards, pies, etc

[Devils_Advocate]

Sorry, didn't really explain myself very well. There can be conditions in the release clause itself around how the clause is met. Largely irrelevant as it doesn't stop the player leaving obviously.

Yep, see what you was getting at now

[Vegas Claret]

Tarkowski has played for England. Both Mee and Tarkowski have played in Europe for us.
CJ Egan Riley played 1 game in the Champions League for Man City vs Sporting Lisbon, after they'd won the first leg 5-0.
Taylor Harwood Bellis played 8 minutes in a Champions League game against Zagrb when they were 4-1 up, and 3 Conference LEague qualifiers for Anderlecht.

To present a collective 98 minutes as them having played at a higher level is a tad disingenous and relies on the technicality that they have featured in the Champions League. They may well be very good players in time but it's absurd to pretend they have a better pedigree than Mee & Tarkowski or have in any real way higher level experience.

the thing is, I deal in facts and they are the facts. Like I also said, nobody knows anything about these new lads and it baffles me how they are being judged before they've played a game. Nobody will achieve anything with a negative mindset, thank **** we have a positive set up at the club because half the fan base are depressing as ****

[spt_claret]

No, you think we are losing quality at an alarming rate, like the rest of us you've no real idea at this point. Mee and Tarkowski's distribution was bang average on a good day, THB could easily be as good if not better than Collins. I'd suggest we give it 6 months before we write off players, manager, playing style, owner, price of twix.

Tarkowski and especially Mee's footballing ability was underrated, but yes they weren't world class distributors.
But they were very, very good at the core duties of a defender- namely defending, and both also could chip in with set piece goals. And were proven leaders at the top level of domestic football.
McNally, THB or Riley might be better distributors (or might just look it given the level of opposition they've faced regularly, compared to Mee & Tarkowski). There is simply no way they are currently better defenders. They might be as good in time, they aren't yet. Hence why people are saying it's a downgrade- this is not the same as writing off players, manager, playing style etc. You can still be supportive while also acknowledging that there's a downgrade.

[Vegas Claret]

Because they make good profit on him? Then will eventually sell him to either a championship side or low end prem team.

could be, or it could be they see him as a player for them in the future - like me you've no idea, unlike others I wont judge though

[Newcastleclaret93]

could be, or it could be they see him as a player for them in the future - like me you've no idea, unlike others I wont judge though

Chances of him playing for Man City regular probably range somewhere between 0 and 0

[RVclaret]

Tarkowski and Mee both played in the Champ as relative novices and develop into all the points you mentioned spt. They weren’t the ‘finished article’ in the Champ were they? Tarks didn’t even start for us for a while. This is kinda what the idea is with the new signings, that they are on a similar level to what the former two were at and can develop like they did.

[RVclaret]

On a other note - Forest in advanced talks to sign Lewis O’Brien from Hudd. Expected to go through within the next 48 hours. Boost for our game with them I’d say.

[Rileybobs]

Well considering how may games he missed in the PL I think it's a pretty factual statement - doesn't mean I'd choose for him to leave though in any way shape or form.

I for one am seeing the club heading in a fresh and exciting new direction and I'm not expecting instant results.
With that, I'm done, your negativity is beyond depressing.

If you find my posts negative or depressing then I’d suggest that’s more indicative of your persona. I’m a very positive person in all aspects of life, I just call things as I see them. Can’t wait for the season to start and see our new signings. I’m equally able to balance that emotion with the belief that Cornet leaving would be a negative. If you want to treat every incoming and outgoing as a positive then crack on, but it’s naive in the extreme.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

the thing is, I deal in facts and they are the facts. Like I also said, nobody knows anything about these new lads and it baffles me how they are being judged before they've played a game. Nobody will achieve anything with a negative mindset, thank **** we have a positive set up at the club because half the fan base are depressing as ****
[/quote

Exactly strange folk worrying at this point over the season ahead. I hope we don’t get beat tonight!

[Vegas Claret]

Tarkowski and especially Mee's footballing ability was underrated, but yes they weren't world class distributors.
But they were very, very good at the core duties of a defender- namely defending, and both also could chip in with set piece goals. And were proven leaders at the top level of domestic football.
McNally, THB or Riley might be better distributors (or might just look it given the level of opposition they've faced regularly, compared to Mee & Tarkowski). There is simply no way they are currently better defenders. They might be as good in time, they aren't yet. Hence why people are saying it's a downgrade- this is not the same as writing off players, manager, playing style etc. You can still be supportive while also acknowledging that there's a downgrade.

Mee and Tarks were brilliant defenders - but that's all we did for the last few seasons. Like I keep saying, I won't judge players yet, we've not seen them. They might all be crap or they might not and that's the point, folks having a meltdown because we aren't signing players who want 50-70K a week as replacements, it's laughable and completely unrealistic.

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Next two weeks are going to be huge for us. Surely if Cornet goes, we can't afford to lose anyone else.

[Rileybobs]

Are you being serious?

So we get relegated, lose our best players (which is what happens), and you expect us to replace like for like?

Be reasonable.

Sorry, but where have I suggested I expect us to replace like for like? I expect every good player we lose to be replaced with an inferior player - which is exactly what is happening. It’s precisely the reason why I’d like us to actually keep some of those players and I don’t act like it’s great that selling Cornet will enable us to buy the lad from Coventry.

At least read my posts.

[spt_claret]

the thing is, I deal in facts and they are the facts. Like I also said, nobody knows anything about these new lads and it baffles me how they are being judged before they've played a game. Nobody will achieve anything with a negative mindset, thank **** we have a positive set up at the club because half the fan base are depressing as ****

The facts are they've had 98 minutes between them in the Champions League while Tarkowski has played for England for 151 minutes.
Diego Penny played in the Premier League and internationally. Nobody would use this to say "He's played at a higher level than Muric and BPF" as if it implies an equal or improvement.

You say depressing, I say not getting carried away with a need to be 100% enthusiastic at all times, or a need to slate and discredit past players/past manager. Smacks of desperately putting on a brave face.

It's not a negative mindset to think that replacing James Tarkowski and Ben Mee with Luke McNally and Taylor Harwood-Bellis is a downgrade, nor is that a knock on the latter two, and it's unfair to brand and twist the comments of everyone who thinks so as being moaners, negative, always accusatory etc. We had people endlessly belittling the club, players and manager when we were a Premier League established side with multiple England internationals, because of 2-3 bad results or because the football wasn't as eyecatching as some. That was real negativity.

[Vegas Claret]

If you find my posts negative or depressing then I’d suggest that’s more indicative of your persona. I’m a very positive person in all aspects of life, I just call things as I see them. Can’t wait for the season to start and see our new signings. I’m equally able to balance that emotion with the belief that Cornet leaving would be a negative. If you want to treat every incoming and outgoing as a positive then crack on, but it’s naive in the extreme.

I'd rather sign a Scott Twin than a Shane Long which has been the norm. Not sure how anyone could say an incoming would be anything other than positive but you believing we could keep Cornet is naive (as much as we would prefer to keep him). With such a low fee he was always bound to go.

[Vegas Claret]

On a other note - Forest in advanced talks to sign Lewis O’Brien from Hudd. Expected to go through within the next 48 hours. Boost for our game with them I’d say.

they want Toffolo from Huddersfield as well

[Rileybobs]

They might all be crap or they might not and that's the point, folks having a meltdown because we aren't signing players who want 50-70K a week as replacements, it's laughable and completely unrealistic.

That hasn’t happened anywhere. And posts like that demonstrate why it’s so difficult to have a balanced discussion on here. Try reading and understanding what people are saying, even if you disagree with their point, without resorting to strawmen arguments.

[dandeclaret]

I've not seen a single one of them play but as it stands CJ Egan Riley and THB have both played at a higher level than Mee and Tarkowski. I would be astounded if Cullen and Bastien aren't a technical upgrade on who they will replace. Twine will score more than Weghorst I would imagine. I can't remember who else we've signed tbh there's been that many

I can't be the only one confused by 2 lads who've not played premier league football playing at a higher level than 2 lads with 5 years + of premier league experience?