2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:58 pm

I may be wrong I have been once or twice in my life, but I took exams on the EU and Financial, taxation etc, Once article 50 has been triggered we cannot revoke it. However if all 28 countries agreed it can be extended for a further 2 years and in that time period we can ask to go back into the EU on the terms they all agree to, that can be the old terms or they can impose new terms that we would have to accept. So the no deal is can not any worse than having to beg cap in hand to accept any thing the EU say to go back in with an increased levy for causing all the trouble.
And all this crap about 16 year olds not getting a say in there future is only the same as when I was a teenager unable to vote on joining the common market some 45 years ago. There will always be some people who are to young to vote.
There is no legal precedence to say we can or cannot remain, however I believe that its a bit like when you hand your notice into say you are leaving your job and they have agreed to your leave date and you are on garden duty, if they come back and say please stay then you have the upper hand and may well get your job back and maybe increased pay, however if you go back to them and say please please can i have my job back I was stupid my family thought i should move to a better company with better terms ad more for them, well you may get your job back but it may well not be on the same terms or even the same job.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:03 pm

Vote for Japanese pre-fab housing and have shanty town UK in 30 years time.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:05 pm

Absolute nonsense and its rubbish like this this that has got us into this mess. The EU are our mates and Comrades and will welcome us back regardless of the dummies who have this ridiculous notion that they are our enemies

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:13 pm

We're not going back. In the same way that the Eastern bloc were a form of Iron curtain, we are the free radical entity of the Northern Enlightenment. Healthy biology for the protection of 'developed world civilization.' The Brexit clean-up starts when the date for Brexit happens.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:14 pm

A vote in the house of commons for another referendum, would be the end for Theresa May. It would then trigger a leadership contest within the Tory party, Boris may come in the top 2 with the MP's then the vote goes to party members who love Boris. Boris becomes PM and then triggers a general election (just like May did in 2017) to seek a new mandate from the people (because a second referendum would be on a major constitutional issue that was not included in the manifesto in 2017), Boris's manifesto won't include a second referendum, would Corbyn's ? not to sure there. So the remainers would be back relying on the small party's to attract votes. Then the forthcoming election may start off as a proxy vote for a second referendum but domestic issues will overtake it and we will be back to where we are today. Out!
I wonder how the remoaners who suddenly have a new found love for democracy will feel then?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:26 pm

Forget a vote just put a stop to it. Everyone (with half a brain) can see its a shambles and we should never have gone down that path in the first place. What we need is a bit of backbone to make the right and sensible decision without all this procrastination

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:04 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:What we need is a bit of backbone

Now there's something I think everyone can agree on.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:12 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:A vote in the house of commons for another referendum, would be the end for Theresa May. It would then trigger a leadership contest within the Tory party, Boris may come in the top 2 with the MP's then the vote goes to party members who love Boris. Boris becomes PM and then triggers a general election ......,

A lot of suppositions there. Starting with a vote in the Commons is by no means likely to mean the end for TM.
How many hard brexiteers are there and would the rest risk a Corbyn Govt?

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:45 pm

What we need is a bit of backbone.!!!!
Dont have a vote on the deal just accept it and lets move on. We cant undo it now we have to leave or the negations to keep us in will be even more farcical and will cost us more money and once a deal is done to keep us in do we then call for another referendum if we dont like the new deal.
The vote was made 2 years ago stick to it and move on. (I voted to stay due to my knowledge of the difficulty to leave) Or do we then have a general election and if I dont like the result I shall call for another and another until I get my way. Then everyone else will want there way so we shall not have any govenment.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:50 pm

Youre wrong and too entrenched in this silly vote melarkey. Those in charge need to tale control and do whats obviously right for this country and everyone in it.

If we learn one thing from this mess is not to leave important decisions to the moronic man on the street

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:08 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Youre wrong and too entrenched in this silly vote melarkey. Those in charge need to tale control and do whats obviously right for this country and everyone in it.

If we learn one thing from this mess is not to leave important decisions to the moronic man on the street

But in 1975, the "moronic man in the street" voted to remain in Europe, in the first referendum. After Heath had taken the country in.

Or was he not "moronic" because he shared the same opinion as you?

Democracy - it means sometimes you lose.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:12 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Democracy - it means sometimes you lose.

But in a few years time (4 to 5) you have the chance to vote for something different.

If things don't go right once we leave the EU then that's it, forever!

That's the big difference.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:14 pm

No he was still moronic and shouldnt have been consulted by those means. The govt should have been able to make the obvious decision to keep us in Europe without a silly referendum vote

Noone need lose if we stop this shambles now

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:17 pm

MPs voted by a ratio 5 to 1 to let the People decide.

We did.

We're leaving. If you don't like that fact too bad.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:19 pm

Spijed wrote:But in a few years time (4 to 5) you have the chance to vote for something different.

If things don't go right once we leave the EU then that's it, forever!

That's the big difference.

No you're wrong.

We had a referendum in 75. We joined.

40 odd years later ( the 4 or 5 applies to general elections) 17.4 million people decided " things hadn't gone right" while we've been IN the EU.

We had a 2nd referendum.

So now we're leaving.....

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:20 pm

This isnt about me this is about whats best for us all and shutting down this Brexit disaster and uniting again with our EU friends seems the only sensible option and everyone of sound mind can see this

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:21 pm

Wanted a new referendom because you lost is like us wanting a rerun of the recent game v Man U .
We lost and so did those who voted remain.
Time to move on.As a leave voter I am angry its dragging on so long.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:22 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:This isnt about me this is about whats best for us all and shutting down this Brexit disaster and uniting again with our EU friends seems the only sensible option and everyone of sound mind can see this

Fine.

Unfortunately 17.4 million disagree.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:25 pm

Calm down. There will be a deal. Always was going to be one. The Tories will sort themselves out. The likes of Gove, Fox and Raab are still on board with the May. The is no way they will hand control of the country to the hard left with corbyn as a puppet pm.

It won't fully satisfy many who wanted a proper brexit, but it will have to do as there is no way back into the eu with any dignity for the uk.

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:45 am

A rerun of the Man utd game ? When, what date, can we pick the utd team and can I referee it with my choice of linesmen and 4th official I will pick them at the wolves game should be some real biased claret fans there?. Oh I am so excited about this at last someone has come up with a good idea about forgetting this brexit thingy yipee we can play till we win too

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:52 am

This chap would vote leave.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/dalai-lama-sa ... 39177.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:40 am

Blackburn would now vote remain according to this survey,however the polling was done by the Best for Britain group,a heavily pro-remain campaign group,so these figures can be taken with a large pinch of salt.https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... it-debate/

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:09 pm

"Blackburn would now vote remain according to this survey, "
Only because they thought it would protect benefits and keep punishment for " ahem" horse trading non custodial.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:41 pm

Jaguar workers on 3 day weeks until Christmas,and people say Corbyn would bring back the 1970's,https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45550025the local MP is citing brexit uncertainty as an issue,the workers will remain on full pay though.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:27 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:Wanted a new referendom because you lost is like us wanting a rerun of the recent game v Man U .
We lost and so did those who voted remain.
Time to move on.As a leave voter I am angry its dragging on so long.

That's not the reason why we should have a new referendum.

The case for a new people's vote is based on the very simple fact that what the Leave side promised the public in 2016 is actually undeliverable.

When the facts change, people's opinions change. It would be undemocratic to deny the public another say on the matter.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:55 pm

Don't want a new referendum just want our leaders to grow some balls and do the right thing by binning off all this Brexit nonsense once and for all.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:45 pm

2 years on and I still can’t believe that leave won because of the British working class voting out when any improvements in their lives have come from a mainly socialist EU.
Boris and his cronies must be wetting themselves at the chance they’ll have to water down workers rights.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:50 pm

piston broke wrote:2 years on and I still can’t believe that leave won because of the British working class voting out when any improvements in their lives have come from a mainly socialist EU.
Boris and his cronies must be wetting themselves at the chance they’ll have to water down workers rights.

I can't wait to rub it in their faces.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:54 pm

And we all know why these workers' rights need to be cut, don't we? It'll be because companies need to be incentivised to stay in the UK. "If we reduce annual leave/maternity leave/ minimum wage growth/employment tribunal rights, etc. then [insert corporation name] will keep their headquarters in the UK which saves xx,xxx jobs".

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:57 pm

Only 4634 hours until Brexit.
Still time for you lot to get over it yet

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:57 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:That's not the reason why we should have a new referendum.

The case for a new people's vote is based on the very simple fact that what the Leave side promised the public in 2016 is actually undeliverable.

When the facts change, people's opinions change. It would be undemocratic to deny the public another say on the matter.

Show me anywhere in the leave campaign where the word "promise" was used, i'll wait.....

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:55 am

claretandy wrote:Show me anywhere in the leave campaign where the word "promise" was used, i'll wait.....

Because it’s not a promise unless you use the word “promise”

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:33 am

***** sake Andy, that is so lame and sums up your posts on this subject perfectly.

Wasn't Panorama last night really, really, really worrying though?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:45 am

Not really.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:10 am

I would absolutely love it were we to have a 2nd vote because the Leave campaign would win with an even greater majority under a PM with a semblance of competence campaigning for a Leave vote with the civil service (sort of) behind them. Saying that though, on Panorama last night I kind of felt sorry for her.

But despite the desires of the anti-democratic Cleggs and unelected Adonis’ of this world, it won’t be a binary choice between Remain and MayDeal. If it were, I’d demand an option three - the choice to have my eyes scooped out with a small spoon. I would choose the least painful option - the eyes.

P.s. talking of my former MP Clegg I saw a fantastic clip yesterday of him doing his big speech in 2016 in front of Farage et al. The one where he made jokes about people not accepting the result behaving like the Japanese on that small island after the war, keeping fighting while the rest of us will simply move on. Priceless Nick, priceless. Or should I say, spinelessly stomach churningly hypocritical.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:18 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I would absolutely love it were we to have a 2nd vote because the Leave campaign would win with an even greater majority under a PM with a semblance of competence campaigning for a Leave vote with the civil service (sort of) behind them. Saying that though, on Panorama last night I kind of felt sorry for her.

But despite the desires of the anti-democratic Cleggs and unelected Adonis’ of this world, it won’t be a binary choice between Remain and MayDeal. If it were, I’d demand an option three - the choice to have my eyes scooped out with a small spoon. I would choose the least painful option - the eyes.

P.s. talking of my former MP Clegg I saw a fantastic clip yesterday of him doing his big speech in 2016 in front of Farage et al. The one where he made jokes about people not accepting the result behaving like the Japanese on that small island after the war, keeping fighting while the rest of us will simply move on. Priceless Nick, priceless. Or should I say, spinelessly stomach churningly hypocritical.

How utterly complacent, not to mention arrogant of you to suggest that the Leave campaign would win with an even greater majority! I don't believe they would.

Theresa May is competent and you feel sorry for her? Wow... just wow!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:22 am

I hope I don't go mad when I get old.

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:05 am

Lancaster claret its to late for us. We already have gone

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:35 am

Being serious for a sec, it does seem that way sometimes.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:49 am

fidelcastro wrote:How utterly complacent, not to mention arrogant of you to suggest that the Leave campaign would win with an even greater majority! I don't believe they would.

Theresa May is competent and you feel sorry for her? Wow... just wow!

Well yes, I did have to give my head a wobble, sure. But she has a truly impossible job. She isn’t doing it very well, but it is still impossible. Her incompetence was that silly election - since then her hand has been forced by her lack of a majority.

As for complacency and arrogance, it is neither.

A sitting PM would obviously have to campaign for Leave, even if it is simply saying there is a moral obligation to voters and not wanting to be like Clegg. Logic would say that would swing towards Leave compared to the last vote. Logic would also say many Remainers would see it the same way, recognising the schism it would cause the country if we remained (as opposed to leaving as ordered, but then building fresh bridges with the EU afterwards).

The polls have shifted a few % probably based on some people seeing the shambles and getting fed up. Polls asking in more detail about the preferred outcome have well over 50% wanting either no deal, EEA, Canada+++ or Chequers. About 30%-35% want to Remain. A few don't know. That's factual polling.

Therefore based on logic and fact (something Remainers are always keen to call for), I could not see Leave losing unless it was a stitch up (like the Remain or Chequers binary option). It also reflects the mood of what I see and hear up and down the country away from the metropolitan university bubbles like the one I live in. So not complacency, nor arrogance, but solid judgement.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:51 am

Finally, a Brexiteer admitting that fulfilling the promises made during the referendum campaign are impossible.

There is hope yet!

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:03 am

The Guardian reckon 100 seats that voted leave would now remain, I appreciate the Grun is not often based on unbiased factual reality but still ...

This must be the weakest Tory party since IDS / Hague days , if labour weren’t utterly rabid rancid and frothing they’d utterly destroy them in an election

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:06 am

It is not solid judgement, with the greatest possible respect, to judge anything on your own personal trips up and down the country.

especially when you then decide to decry the results from organisations specifically tasked with doing poll research.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:11 am

There's hope of an invasion of Britain and Chinese rule yet, says Lancaster Claret, or words to that effect. It is war. You are a traitor.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:54 am

Taking back control now means handing over the NHS to the full rigours of the market.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... e-deal-nhs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:16 pm

Oh good.

Day after Andrew Jenkins MP (brexiteer MP, with an, er, "interesting" grasp of reality) says car makers are scaremongering.

This

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 5500826625" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:19 pm

Project Fear

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:26 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:***** sake Andy, that is so lame and sums up your posts on this subject perfectly.

Wasn't Panorama last night really, really, really worrying though?

If it's good enough for your hero James O'Brexit to try and nail someone on semantics, then it's good enough for me.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:31 pm

No answer.

But that is the absolute norm for the past two years.

You are in for such a shock mate when this all goes down the pan.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:32 pm

I still haven't had an answer to the pretty obvious question - will people basically stop buying cars after Brexit, or is it just that EU suppliers will have no trouble getting their cars in while we can't get ours out? I find it hard to believe that trains will be running only one way through the Channel tunnel, if only because they would run out of trains!