Thoughts on the first 5 games

[boatshed bill]

It would be disappointing to finish so far down the table. I can't imagine many people - even those with moderate expectations - would think we had done very well if that's what happened.

Well that would be entirely up to the individual.
I like the football we are playing and it is a massive rebuild.

[taio]

Well that would be entirely up to the individual.
I like the football we are playing and it is a massive rebuild.

Fair point about it being down to an individual's opinion and expectations. I do wonder though how we've managed to get into a position where someone can think finishing 16th or lower in the table would be doing very well.

[daveisaclaret]

Interesting post this (and this isn’t an attempt to challenge it as such) but are you saying that anything but promotion this season is outright failure in your view then (‘we’re the best team in the division and should be winning it’)? I hope I eat a hat/humble pie but I’m struggling to see a promotion charge….currently.

Interesting question, I'm not sure I'd go so far as outright failure but it would certainly be a big disappointment.

I think yesterday is now the example of what we're capable of going forward, but I don't expect the defending to be like yesterday's second half (hopefully due to improved personnel but even if not, due to experience and familiarity). If we go through the season not scoring enough goals to compete at the very top then I suppose yeah I would call that an outright failure. If our defence isn't good enough to compete at the top then it'll be more the case that I've just got it wrong rather than a failure.

[jedi_master]

Interesting question, I'm not sure I'd go so far as outright failure but it would certainly be a big disappointment.

I think yesterday is now the example of what we're capable of going forward, but I don't expect the defending to be like yesterday's second half (hopefully due to improved personnel but even if not, due to experience and familiarity). If we go through the season not scoring enough goals to compete at the very top then I suppose yeah I would call that an outright failure. If our defence isn't good enough to compete at the top then it'll be more the case that I've just got it wrong rather than a failure.

That’s very fair. I think a striker and centre back coming in to the side (and being of the right quality obviously) may well be the difference between quite an underwhelming season and one where we may be battling to the very end.

[tiger76]

Fair point about it being down to an individual's opinion and expectations. I do wonder though how we've managed to get into a position where someone can think finishing 16th or lower in the table would be doing very well.

It wouldn't be doing well to finish lower half, that would be taking us back to where we were during Stan's time.

And although I'm all for keeping expectations reasonable for me the minimum we should expect is too be hovering around the PO region.

[Goody1975]

- Need a proper centre back to slot in alongside THB, height should be one of the key considerations here too.

- Broken record me on this possibly, and it’s not personal as he seems a lovely bloke, but I don’t think Connor Roberts is good enough for what is being asked of him. I’d be gobsmacked if a club ‘bigger’ than us would pay for him but if they would I’d get it done. I’d rather Lowton was there myself, or give Vitinho a go in his actual position and see what he’s about. I certainly don’t see him as a shoe in for a starting berth.

I think more or less exactly what I said earlier, I agree except I'm not sure Lowton is the answer.

[Goody1975]

It wouldn't be doing well to finish lower half, that would be taking us back to where we were during Stan's time.

And although I'm all for keeping expectations reasonable for me the minimum we should expect is too be hovering around the PO region.

100%

If we can start keeping a few clean sheets or restricting the opposition to just one goal, we will pick up an awful lot of points in the coming weeks, that is a definite in my opinion.

The defensive display yesterday will be a massive wake up call to everyone at the club, might just focus a few minds on the pitch, within the coaching staff and the boardroom.

[Tribesmen]

How many goals will we give away playing Tippy Tappy in our own 18 yard box this season ?

[CrosspoolClarets]

For those of us with no financial stake I think we have to look at relegation as a chance to be entertained in a different way - that feels like it is being delivered, we can see a new style, youth, goals, excitement. So that is one tick.

We have spent more money than I expected (we all expected the sales, bar Collins). That in itself should warrant a playoff challenge. Two ticks.

Performance - up and down, but on expected goals we are 3rd and expected goals against (lowest is top) we are 1st. That makes us the best team in the division so far apart from finishing and keeping goals out (obviously the two vital things but leading the xG stats is really important too). Three ticks.

https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg

So far, so good.

[Goody1975]

How many goals will we give away playing Tippy Tappy in our own 18 yard box this season ?

Some and not many as direct as yesterday but what we gain will imo far exceed the negatives.

[CrosspoolClarets]

For those of us with no financial stake I think we have to look at relegation as a chance to be entertained in a different way - that feels like it is being delivered, we can see a new style, youth, goals, excitement. So that is one tick.

We have spent more money than I expected (we all expected the sales, bar Collins). That in itself should warrant a playoff challenge. Two ticks.

Performance - up and down, but on expected goals we are 3rd and expected goals against (lowest is top) we are 1st. That makes us the best team in the division so far apart from finishing and keeping goals out (obviously the two vital things but leading the xG stats is really important too). Three ticks.

https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg

So far, so good.

p.s. xG before the Blackpool game, so the stats against will nudge downwards a bit.

[jollyjack]

Think we could feasibly be 12+ points from the games so far. Question is why aren't we? Lack of clinical finishing, naiive defending on occasions. Bit of a Dycheism but we haven't been "relentless." Many seemingly minor faults with what has been an encouraging change of ethos at the club. The never say die attitude and willingness to battle against all odds until the end (100+ minutes in the modern game). Sure we battered them in the last 10 yesterday, but the 100 is every minute. Really think someone like Bellamy will have an influence on this aspect through the season. Want to see a win, want to see how VK approaches the abscence of Maatsen, want to see astute use of the rest of the window. Quite believe we are capable of being around Play-Offs come Dec and kicking on in 2nd Half IF we can learn and adapt to the League.

[Ric_C]

One thing we can hopefully put to bed is the fact that we can just turn up and outclass teams. After the first 20 mins on saturday it almost felt too easy. 2-0 up, they looked totally lost. Crowd were ole ole etc

But give teams a sniff, and things can change dramatically, and quickly. Yesterday was a point gained in my book, which is quite frankly ridiculous when we should have been about 3 or 4-0 up before we gifted them a lifeline.

I'm hoping that our play will evolve. We saw signs of a more mixed style when THB sent those 2 lovely through-balls over their defence, which is good.

We need a plan B when teams go ultra high. In a way that should be a victory for us as it shows that teams can't handle the way we play from the back normally. I don't mean route 1 but there should be pockets in midfield that we can exploit. I'm hoping this is the next stage in the evolving system.

[Lancasterclaret]

Bearing in mind I've not actually been to the Turf yet due to a stunningly badly timed holiday, I'm more than happy with the start

Its a lot easier on the eye, I like the idea of how we are trying to play, and though I was certainly in the "why do teams fanny about with it at the back?" camp, I can see the tactical benefits of it a lot more now

Signings all appear to be low risk, but exciting, and you certainly can't argue with the entertainment factor (stated by many on here as a reason they stopped going)

Its very clearly a work in progress, and we still do need some additions, but considering the turnover of pretty much everything that we'd become used to in what seems like a month I think its actually a pretty fair start

[123EasyasBFC]

Trying to think positive and say least we are getting the mistakes out the way early! We could easily of won all 5 games and have only lost one, just a case of turning the draws to wins.

Fans entitled to be nervy and have an opinion but on a match day at the ground we just need to back the team whatever happens. If we are getting beat 5-0 at half time in a game and stinking the place out then boo, but sarcastic cheers and jeers doesn’t help anything. Kompany still learning the league but needs the likes of Bellamy and Jackson to be able to get into his head about game management

[Sozturf7]

Great Post. Most replies on here are positive which I agree with. Of course we will get the few that just cannot see what VC is trying to do, unlike most of the sensible people on here. End of last season I was worried, now I'm positive and happy with our new style of play.

[summitclaret]

I have never bood my team and wouldn't shout out sarcastically. However, after about 4 first half occasions of giving the ball away by ******* about in or about our penalty area whilst being really pressed, we learnt nothing at half time. What the hell did they talk about in that dressing room. Given what happened immediately after half time, I can understand why some people were screaming for the keeper to just get rid for once.

[dandeclaret]

For those of us with no financial stake I think we have to look at relegation as a chance to be entertained in a different way - that feels like it is being delivered, we can see a new style, youth, goals, excitement. So that is one tick.

We have spent more money than I expected (we all expected the sales, bar Collins). That in itself should warrant a playoff challenge. Two ticks.

Performance - up and down, but on expected goals we are 3rd and expected goals against (lowest is top) we are 1st. That makes us the best team in the division so far apart from finishing and keeping goals out (obviously the two vital things but leading the xG stats is really important too). Three ticks.

https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg

So far, so good.

AG is much more important....

[123EasyasBFC]

I have never bood my team and wouldn't shout out sarcastically. However, after about 4 first half occasions of giving the ball away by ******* about in or about our penalty area whilst being really pressed, we learnt nothing at half time. What the hell did they talk about in that dressing room. Given what happened immediately after half time, I can understand why some people were screaming for the keeper to just get rid for once.

I think that’s a case of Muric needs to be able to make his own decision and go long at times if there’s no pass on, we do like at teams we are thinking too much about the instructions giving instead of playing on instinct, playing the pass is what they have been told but if it’s not completely on then kick it long.

I feel the same about roberts at the moment, it looks like he’s focusing so much on the instruction he’s been given rather than playing on instinct and getting up and down like he does for wales. Again all learning curves

[ksrclaret]

POSITIVES

1) The way we swarm all over the ball when we lose it and win it back super quickly. It's brilliant to see and it's something to really build on.

2) All of our players look really comfortable on the ball, and players always make themselves available for a pass. They are never scared of taking the ball on.

3) The willingness in the last couple of games (Blackpool first half in particular) to go direct after a period of possession with a ball into space and runners getting after it. It's so important we can do that to stretch the game.

NEGATIVES

1) We are guilty of over-playing, especially around the back, but also in front of the opposition's 18 yard box. We need to learn, and fast, to smell danger when Muric and the defenders are attempting to build play from the back. At the moment it feels like we sometimes take more risks with the ball in our box than we do around the opposition's. That's not right and needs addressing.

2) The defending when the ball reaches our third of the pitch has been suspect on too many occasions. Only Harwood-Bellis has impressed in these situations, with all of Roberts, Taylor, and Maatsen looking far from convincing defensively. We certainly need to get Taylor of the centre half role, and either play McNally or bring in another. With Maatsen now suspended, it may actually help the team, which is odd to say considering Maatsen has been mostly excellent going forwards.

3) The results. We are certainly a work in progress, but I'd have expected more than the return we've got so far. Expectations are actually incredibly low from a large portion of the fanbase, but I'm of the opinion we need to be top 6 this season or something has gone wrong.

[leelad]

A work in progress. The consistency in performance over the 90 minutes or so is not there yet, but that's to be expected when you take into account the number of incomings and outgoings. Missing that game management, converting some of the chances we are creating in games and also that experienced head in defence. Leagues are not won on possession stats, they are won on scoring goals at one end and keeping the door shut at the other end. We were halfway there yesterday in scoring the goals, a team playing at home that scores three shouldn't be drawing at the end of the 90 mins. So in the round, more to be done, just need to cut out the silly mistakes.

[Elizabeth]

Think we have a dodgy keeper we need to replace.
The sooner Taylor is removed from central defence the better.
We are not using Roberts strengths
Barnes is neither use nor ornament.

Many won't like most of that honest assessment but what I will say is that despite these deficiencies I have been impressed by the ball possession and once we field a stronger, more balanced team , which I think will happen, I can see us improving on our current points per game average.

Not seeing Twine play has been the biggest disappointment for me as I have a good feeling about him

[123EasyasBFC]

Think we have a dodgy keeper we need to replace.
The sooner Taylor is removed from central defence the better.
We are not using Roberts strengths
Barnes is neither use nor ornament.

Many won't like most of that honest assessment but what I will say is that despite these deficiencies I have been impressed by the ball possession and once we field a stronger, more balanced team , which I think will happen, I can see us improving on our current points per game average.

Not seeing Twine play has been the biggest disappointment for me as I have a good feeling about him

Nothing can be done with the fact twine got injured

[RVclaret]

Think we have a dodgy keeper we need to replace.
The sooner Taylor is removed from central defence the better.
We are not using Roberts strengths
Barnes is neither use nor ornament.

Many won't like most of that honest assessment but what I will say is that despite these deficiencies I have been impressed by the ball possession and once we field a stronger, more balanced team , which I think will happen, I can see us improving on our current points per game average.

Not seeing Twine play has been the biggest disappointment for me as I have a good feeling about him

Dodgy keeper? I’d probably say we’ve got the best keeper in the league

Less than 0% chance he is replaced

[Elizabeth]

Dodgy keeper? I’d probably say we’ve got the best keeper in the league

Less than 0% chance he is replaced

Seriously, are people not allowed an opinion of their own?

[RVclaret]

Seriously, are people not allowed an opinion of their own?

Who said they couldn’t?

[Longsider]

Dropping points yesterday from such s strong position can have a hugely positive impact. The team under VK will galvanize from this. They will assess, regroup, kick on and absolutely Muller Wigan next week. UTC

[Goody1975]

Dodgy keeper? I’d probably say we’ve got the best keeper in the league

Less than 0% chance he is replaced

I said earlier that my only issue with him at present is him not commanding his box as decisively as he should, this could take some of the pressure off the back four at set pieces.

The rest is fine, especially playing the ball out from the back, maybe the coaching team need to give him an option on the flanks to hit rather than "just get rid of the f***ing thing" like many of our fans want him to do. If teams know that once pressed we just hoof it then that'll become the go to tactic for the opposition.

[Elizabeth]

Who said they couldn’t?

You never seem content with your own opinions but feel you always have to put your two pennyworth in about others. I suppose that 's the way you are but it annoys me.
I will say then that he will be nowhere near the best goalkeeper in the league come the end of the season.

[CrosspoolClarets]

AG is much more important....

If AG means actual goals, I disagree.

It is proven that expected goals for and against are a better predictor of the future than actual goals. For example, we have scored 6 in 5 which is about 55 goals a season. I predict we will end up with about 80, which is closer to our xG forecast.

We are looking really good on these stats, a few hairy moments and wobbles being fairly brief. I’m reasonably confident that will continue despite having some tactical and personnel hurdles to jump.

[fidelcastro]

Dodgy keeper? I’d probably say we’ve got the best keeper in the league

Based on what?

[boatshed bill]

You never seem content with your own opinions but feel you always have to put your two pennyworth in about others. I suppose that 's the way you are but it annoys me.
I will say then that he will be nowhere near the best goalkeeper in the league come the end of the season.

To be fair, you stated that yours were assessments, but they are just your opinion.

[Quickenthetempo]

It's brought home the reality of losing over 100m worth of talent and replacing with less than 20m.

The players are trying their best, just a lot of teething problems at the minute.

[123EasyasBFC]

I also feel the fact of how good maatsen has been going forward has glossed over that he isn’t a very good defender yet, he is 100% suited to a 3 at the back formation

[davetheclaret]

First thing Kompany needs to do is lock the back door. Blackpool had 30% possession and the same number of shots as Burnley with double the amount on target.

Unfortunately IMHO Harwood Bellis and Maatsen look good on the ball but they don’t look like great defender's. Probably the best defender we have is Taylor and he’s playing him out of position. Look at the second goal conceded, no real danger but Maatsen couldn’t close the wide man down and the rest of the defence (Cullen and Cork included) were all ball watching whilst three Blackpool players were queuing up on the back post.

Exactly, i like Maatsen but i think he's more a wing half than a full back great going forward but suspect at the back, one of the goals yesterday was like the Watford goal, he was out of position, Taylor gets pulled across and we are all over the place, Cullen and Cork are marking each other, id like to see a left footed center back brought in and Taylor return to left back with Maatsen playing in a more advanced role.

[TheFamilyCat]

Thoughtd on the first five games...

Happy with the playing style. I don't think VK knows his best XI yet (not a criticism btw just the reality of putting a new team together). It will take a few more tweaks, particularly with more incomings likely before he does, although Tella appears to have answered one if the questions.

Once the window is shut, I'm confident that we'll gel and some of the frustrations so far (the slow passing, struggle to break teams down) will fade.

The lack of a leader on the pitch was noticeable yesterday in the second half. Cork was captain and obviously the senior player but fine player that he is, I'm not sure he has leadership in his locker. Hopefully he, or someone else will step up and be the Joey Barton figure.

[northernpowerhouse]

Conversely the opposition have had 30% possession and scored as many goals and taken as many points as Burnley.

But statistically that's unlikely to happen over the course of a whole season. If we can average 60%+ possession over 46 games history says we're very likely to finish top 6.

[Wembley09]

Before the kick off at Huddersfield I said we'd either be mid table or if we were lucky.. pushing for the playoffs.

I said it would be either one of those, still way too early to tell. But I still stand by that, Kompany himself said it's a rebuilding job and long term is the target.

[dandeclaret]

If AG means actual goals, I disagree.

It is proven that expected goals for and against are a better predictor of the future than actual goals. For example, we have scored 6 in 5 which is about 55 goals a season. I predict we will end up with about 80, which is closer to our xG forecast.

We are looking really good on these stats, a few hairy moments and wobbles being fairly brief. I’m reasonably confident that will continue despite having some tactical and personnel hurdles to jump.

Only if you straight line the current goals, which isn’t realistic. The xg is currently higher, but ag means that there’s only one win in the board, and that will forever be more important.

[tiger76]

Before the kick off at Huddersfield I said we'd either be mid table or if we were lucky.. pushing for the playoffs.

I said it would be either one of those, still way too early to tell. But I still stand by that, Kompany himself said it's a rebuilding job and long term is the target.

That was roughly my thoughts as well, and as yet I've seen nothing to change my mind, those folks moaning already need to remember just how much of a rebuild VK is actually undertaking, and give him and the players time to attune, Saturday was annoying however the reaction was OTT, when for 70+ minutes we controlled the game, and were heading for a comfortable victory.

[Denno97]

Based on what?

The 2/3 Pope like saves to keep it at 3-3

[RVclaret]

Based on what?

Voted the best keeper in Turkish Prem last season.

Then so far looks to be the best technical ball playing keeper in the league from what I’ve seen, has claimed crosses well and made some outstanding saves to keep it 3-3.

Needs to work on decision making and perhaps positioning (Hull goal I thought he could create a better angle) but he’s only 23 so lots of development time for a keeper.

[FeedTheArf]

POSITIVES

1) The way we swarm all over the ball when we lose it and win it back super quickly. It's brilliant to see and it's something to really build on.

2) All of our players look really comfortable on the ball, and players always make themselves available for a pass. They are never scared of taking the ball on.

3) The willingness in the last couple of games (Blackpool first half in particular) to go direct after a period of possession with a ball into space and runners getting after it. It's so important we can do that to stretch the game.

NEGATIVES

1) We are guilty of over-playing, especially around the back, but also in front of the opposition's 18 yard box. We need to learn, and fast, to smell danger when Muric and the defenders are attempting to build play from the back. At the moment it feels like we sometimes take more risks with the ball in our box than we do around the opposition's. That's not right and needs addressing.

2) The defending when the ball reaches our third of the pitch has been suspect on too many occasions. Only Harwood-Bellis has impressed in these situations, with all of Roberts, Taylor, and Maatsen looking far from convincing defensively. We certainly need to get Taylor of the centre half role, and either play McNally or bring in another. With Maatsen now suspended, it may actually help the team, which is odd to say considering Maatsen has been mostly excellent going forwards.

3) The results. We are certainly a work in progress, but I'd have expected more than the return we've got so far. Expectations are actually incredibly low from a large portion of the fanbase, but I'm of the opinion we need to be top 6 this season or something has gone wrong.

That's a really good summary and sums up my thoughts perfectly. The only thing I'd add is that I wish we would sometimes pass into space to utilise the pace we have rather than into feet all the time. We've not been outplayed once so far, just mistakes of our own doing, so as VK says, if we can get to the world cup break and be in and around it, the hope is we could continue to push on from there.

And finally - whatever the question, Ashley Barnes is not the answer.

[AGENT_CLARET]

After 5 games it stands out that

Maatsen needs to not play on the left of defence he should play higher up the pitch, he doesn't defend that well he doesn't track back and because of this most of the goals we've conceded have come from the left, Taylor should play there because he's not a CB, Taylor doesn't win a single header in this role.

I like the playing it out from the back and Muric starts a lot of our attacks but not 100% all the time, team's are looking at this during the game and are cutting the gap between him and the defence or Cullen and stealing the ball, we need to sometimes go long, Muric could kick it long down our wings because we have pace to chase the ball down.

Kompany needs to stop trying to please the bench players by bringing on players for the sake of it, his stupid substitutions taking off Tella on a hatrick and swopping Jay Rod who was causing Blackpool problems for the terrible Barnes, I love Barnes but he's way past it now, he doesn't look fit or even bothered when he's on the pitch.

[Goody1975]

Maatsen needs to not play on the left of defence he should play higher up the pitch, he doesn't defend that well he doesn't track back and because of this most of the goals we've conceded have come from the left, Taylor should play there because he's not a CB, Taylor doesn't win a single header in this role.

We'll see how things go without Maatsen in the next couple of league games but I wouldn't change anything (other than a new left sided centre half), it's more how we deal with teams running in behind Maatsen on the break like what happened for the second goal on Saturday. I wanted Taylor to come and deal with the situation but he looked unsure whether to stick or twist, he did neither and they ultimately scored.

Maatsen has been one of our best players so far this season and one of our main attacking outlets, if he's not in his current role then I'm not sure where he'd play, only option is a wing back in a 3-5-2 but does that suit our personnel?

We'll find out soon enough what things are like without him, at least we have a week to plan for it.

[AGENT_CLARET]

A good read

https://theathletic.com/3525210/2022/08 ... blackpool/

[Pickles]

I think people are perhaps underestimating a little a) How different this side is tactically to the Burnley we've watched for ten years. It's a transformation, and we'll play the "best" football in the division when it all clicks.

b) How good this team can be.

Work to do but already seen enough to be very optimistic.

[warksclaret]

We'll see how things go without Maatsen in the next couple of league games but I wouldn't change anything (other than a new left sided centre half), it's more how we deal with teams running in behind Maatsen on the break like what happened for the second goal on Saturday. I wanted Taylor to come and deal with the situation but he looked unsure whether to stick or twist, he did neither and they ultimately scored.

Maatsen has been one of our best players so far this season and one of our main attacking outlets, if he's not in his current role then I'm not sure where he'd play, only option is a wing back in a 3-5-2 but does that suit our personnel?

We'll find out soon enough what things are like without him, at least we have a week to plan for it.

Goody-agree with you. Maatsen when he returns from suspension needs to stay LB. I also agree about Taylor-he dithers not only in possession, but when the opposition attack down the left. The indecision of what to do, as he is a totally inexperienced CH is costing us goals and points.

You would hope that VK who played CH is fully au fait with whats going on.I do think we have the personnel to play 3 at the back in time and then you will see the qualities of Maatsen and Roberts. The back three would be Egan Riley or McNally, plus new CH and THB. I think Roberts & Maatsen would provide more balls into the box than the current 4 new players we have recently bought. Play 5 across the middle and two strikers with the options being Jay/Tella and a possible new striker

[jojomk1]

A back three just does not work with the current players
Maatsen gets involved upfield (no doubt as per instructions) but, far too often, leaves Taylor exposed down the left hand side
I predicted on another thread, before Saturday's game, that Blackpool would capitalise on this flaw and no surprise they were able to get down that line and cross for the second goal (same happened at Watford)
Other teams will see the same opportunities in future games
Centre mid offers little change (Cullen is a younger version of Westwood) and both he and Cork are happy to pass sideways and backwards to retain possession but they don't do much else with it
Harwood was the one who put the telling forward passes through for the first two goals - just hope Cullen and Cork saw the same
There is no height or strength across the whole of midfield
Barnes is just a waste of time
Shining light in the new system is Brownhill playing a forward role and scoring goals
But what will happen to Josh when Twine is fit

[Jambo]

Twine could play the wide right role which has been a problem position for us so far. A few lads have had a go at it without particularly impressing.

I was expecting some teething problems and we were probably spoiled by the first half on the opening night. At least Saturday showed we have goals in the side but I don't think we've got any chance of promotion without fixing a defence that looks like conceding soft goals every game at the moment.