The Homeless and William

[Lancasterclaret]

You really are an odd ball. A secure compound where like minded anti social people can get high,******,play loud music without ruining people's lives is hardly Belsen.
The bigger issue is freeing up houses that are being infested by the lines of people mentioned earlier.
Have you put your money where your mouth is and taken a homeless person in? Plenty in Lancaster,if not why not ?

You say "oddball", I say "normal human being"

So you want to round up all the undesirables and stick them into secure compound, and its *hardly belsen is it*?

F**k me

[Clovius Boofus]

To be fair, they are advocating a solution to the problem, but its all a bit too final solution

I didn't see this post at first.

You think you're being clever, but in reality you are using those awful events (the holocaust) to 'win' an argument on the internet and in doing so, you dimmish the suffering and murder of millions of people. You really should have a word with yourself because, to be honest, it's your comment here that's utterly revolting and disgraceful.

[claretonthecoast1882]

You say "oddball", I say "normal human being"

So you want to round up all the undesirables and stick them into secure compound, and its *hardly belsen is it*?

F**k me

Don't we already do this with Blackburn

[Lancasterclaret]

I didn't see this post at first.

You think you're being clever, but in reality you are using those awful events (the holocaust) to 'win' an argument on the internet and in doing so, you dimmish the suffering and murder of millions of people. You really should have a word with yourself because, to be honest, it's your comment here that's utterly revolting and disgraceful.

I'm not being clever at all

I told you that I'd take the **** out of a couple of fascists and that is what I'm doing

Just a quick reminder to you two that you both advocate concentration camps

[Boss Hogg]

There’s a real risk to landlords. I used to rent to some Local Authority tenants. Many of them trashed the places and lived in a disgusting manner. As soon as rent wasn’t paid to the landlord directly I stopped doing it. Id never do it again. The question is what do you do with people who can’t live properly in a house and have no respect for anything.

[Bosscat]

I think the OP has achieved what he set out to do ... create a perfect storm on UTC

[Lancasterclaret]

There’s a real risk to landlords. I used to rent to some Local Authority tenants. Many of them trashed the places and lived in a disgusting manner. As soon as rent wasn’t paid to the landlord directly I stopped doing it. Id never do it again. The question is what do you do with people who can’t live properly in a house and have no respect for anything.

Its an issue, but the solution is not to put them in concentration camps

There has to be solutions that work that are out there, that maybe other countries have, or something

And yes, we've been in exactly the same position, and its horrible, and it takes its toll, but its not a reason to advocate completely inhumane solutions

[Clovius Boofus]

It is astonishing that you both (and that Meeaction1 chap) think that its perfectly fine to advocate this and no one is going to bat an eyelid?

F**k me

Your 'final solution' comment was disgusting, and yet you double down on it. Says a lot about you, Lancaster. You are a massive hypocrite.

[Boss Hogg]

Its an issue, but the solution is not to put them in concentration camps

There has to be solutions that work that are out there, that maybe other countries have, or something

And yes, we've been in exactly the same position, and its horrible, and it takes its toll, but its not a reason to advocate completely inhumane solutions

As someone who takes a hard line on crime on this issue I’d agree.

[daveisaclaret]

Your 'final solution' comment was disgusting, and yet you double down on it. Says a lot about you, Lancaster. You are a massive hypocrite.

I personally don't see a need to invoke the Nazis when we have our own rich history of concentration camps, but it's obviously worse to say "we should put people in concentration camps" than to say "the Nazis put people in concentration camps and that's evidence it's bad"

[Burnley Ace]

All I want to hear is radical and/or realistic solutions to what is a real problem and what do we get?

People advocating concentration camps

Well, its certainly radical I suppose

https://www.feantsa.org/download/ejh6_2 ... 530692.pdf

I think the idea is more along the lines of a “Skaeve Huse” rather than a concentration camp.

[GetIntoEm]

I'm not sure "camps" are the answer, but maybe an enforced sterilisation program for these undesirable people? Could be a game changer in a relatively short period of time. 10-20 years it could be resolved

[Lancasterclaret]

https://www.feantsa.org/download/ejh6_2 ... 530692.pdf

I think the idea is more along the lines of a “Skaeve Huse” rather than a concentration camp.

I'll have a proper look when I've got time but a quick scan suggests it sound like a radical and perfectly workable solution, recognises that employment, medical aid, teaching etc etc makes a huge difference

Bit different from what is being advocated by the two posters above!

[Foshiznik]

I see no reason why we can't create mass accommodation facilities for the homeless. Most don't choose to be in that situation and just need support in getting themselves back up after a life changing knock.

I just don't agree that it should be surrounded by guard towers, barbwire and have 'Albeit Macht Frei' about the front door like some of our more extreme members appear to believe when reading this thread.

[JohnMcGreal]

I didn't say it was off topic and I don't think it is, so I'm not sure who or what you're agreeing with.

It's completely on topic because it highlights how many people in our society couldn't care less about homelessness and only want to pretend people deserve it.

Probably the same type of people who only last week were on here expressing how little they cared about rising interest rates and that if people can't afford their mortgage repayments it's their own fault.

Which will actually just lead to more homelessness, ironically.

[TsarBomba]

I see no reason why we can't create mass accommodation facilities for the homeless. Most don't choose to be in that situation and just need support in getting themselves back up after a life changing knock.

I just don't agree that it should be surrounded by guard towers, barbwire and have 'Albeit Macht Frei' about the front door like some of our more extreme members appear to believe when reading this thread.

Is this not in effect prison lite?

How can you make someone live there if they don’t want to? How would you make it safe? There would have to be some form of restrictions on alcohol and drugs, but then, we can’t even keep drugs out of the prisons.

And there’s probably an argument that putting all our homeless together would exacerbate their pre-existing issues around MH, substance abuse and criminality. The same is said re prisons.

[Foshiznik]

Is this not in effect prison lite?

How can you make someone live there if they don’t want to? How would you make it safe? There would have to be some form of restrictions on alcohol and drugs, but then, we can’t even keep drugs out of the prisons.

And there’s probably an argument that putting all our homeless together would exacerbate their pre-existing issues around MH, substance abuse and criminality. The same is said re prisons.

It’s how homeless shelters work and would be voluntary. There would also be rules that residents would have to abide by. As I said before, some people just need a leg up and it would benefit many more than it would cause issues. Imo of course.

[Foshiznik]

Is this not in effect prison lite?

How can you make someone live there if they don’t want to? How would you make it safe? There would have to be some form of restrictions on alcohol and drugs, but then, we can’t even keep drugs out of the prisons.

And there’s probably an argument that putting all our homeless together would exacerbate their pre-existing issues around MH, substance abuse and criminality. The same is said re prisons.

I was too late with my edit attempt so will add, I do accept your points though.

[FeedTheArf]

If he can help improve homelessness by even 1% what's the harm in him trying??

It's better than spending his afternoons in Pizza Express

[Clovius Boofus]

it's better than spending his afternoons in Pizza Express

Good one.

[Lancasterclaret]

https://oecdecoscope.blog/2021/12/13/fi ... ess-story/

Finlands homeless strategy (which has been 80% successful)

[Lancasterclaret]

Your 'final solution' comment was disgusting, and yet you double down on it. Says a lot about you, Lancaster. You are a massive hypocrite.

You could quote tweet it, but then everyone would know what I meant, rather than what you want them to think

And everyone knows what you think

I'm not sure you've thought this one through

[Foshiznik]

https://oecdecoscope.blog/2021/12/13/fi ... ess-story/

Finlands homeless strategy (which has been 80% successful)

“We decided to make the housing unconditional,” he says. “To say, look, you don’t need to solve your problems before you get a home. Instead, a home should be the secure foundation that makes it easier to solve your problems.”

This is the very point i was making with regards to providing housing solutions further up the page - "a leg up".

[Lancasterclaret]

“We decided to make the housing unconditional,” he says. “To say, look, you don’t need to solve your problems before you get a home. Instead, a home should be the secure foundation that makes it easier to solve your problems.”

This is the very point i was making with regards to providing housing solutions further up the page - "a leg up".

Yup, I knew what you meant

From this and the dutch one its clear that just putting them in a home and expecting it to solve it isn't going to, but if they have employment help, medical help, educational help etc etc etc then it can make a huge difference, and it actually ends up cheaper

You'd hope that the Uk can follow these lessons (and I'm sure there are charities and councils that do very similar btw)

[TsarBomba]

I was too late with my edit attempt so will add, I do accept your points though.

There’s distinctions to be made, within those that are homeless, which necessitates a different approach.

There’s those that have fallen on hard times that just need a leg up. And chances are very quickly they can be back on some sort of track.

There are those that have fallen down the rabbit hole of drink and drugs, perhaps as a coping mechanism for some sort of trauma. They want the help, but don’t have the tools to help themselves initially. May probably need extensive rehabilitation first, before getting the support re housing. And then from there, perhaps back into employment.

And then there are those that have the drink and drug addiction, and with it a life of crime. They don’t seek help, don’t want it when offered, and being homeless is actually a positive because it makes them harder to track down and then locate if and when they have committed offences. There are police referral mechanisms within custody should someone want it, but all too often it is passed up. Of course, we shouldn’t give up on this group, but if someone doesn’t want to help themselves, it makes it a damn sight harder.

[Venkys4eva]

I was in Manchester with a work colleague many years ago and she stopped to speak to a tramp. I thought nothing of it and presumed she was giving him a little something so I waited at one side. When she returned I said something like 'what did you give him?' expecting her to say a couple of pounds. But instead she said 'nothing, I was just chatting to my Dad', she could see the look of disbelief on my face and went on to tell me not to feel any pity for him. She said he had spent his life on drugs and had been helped numerous times by the whole family but everytime he had thrown in back in their face and stolen everything he could get his hands on. She said once you have lived with someone like that you dont feel pity anymore. She paid for rehab 3 times at the cost of 1000s but everytime he had gone straight back out thieving and sold all her kids christmas presents for a hit. After hearing her story I can understand why some are on the streets and no matter how much help they get they will never change.

[Clovius Boofus]

You could quote tweet it, but then everyone would know what I meant, rather than what you want them to think

And everyone knows what you think

I'm not sure you've thought this one through

I have, and I consider you to be an offensive egotist who will go as far as using the holocaust to get one over on those you disagree with. This isn't the first time you have done this, you have a long history of doing so. This time, you used the Final Solution most inappropriately, and then you doubled-down on it, because you can't be seen to be wrong.

People who misuse such terms do a massive disservice to those millions who suffered so terribly under real Nazis, but you obviously don't care, because it's all about you. Pathetic.

[Lancasterclaret]

I have, and I consider you to be an offensive egotist who will go as far as using the holocaust to get one over on those you disagree with. This isn't the first time you have done this, you have a long history of doing so. This time, you used the Final Solution most inappropriately, and then you doubled-down on it, because you can't be seen to be wrong.

People who misuse such terms do a massive disservice to those millions who suffered so terribly under real Nazis, but you obviously don't care, because it's all about you. Pathetic.

You really are doubling down on this

I don't get it, you could just apologise for essentially validating concentration camps and I'd accept it (because as far as I know you aren't one of those posters who regularly goes down that route)

I'm highlighting the dangers of what you propose using a very relevant historical example

Do you really think you are the first person who has thought of attacking the person who is comparing what you appear to mean to an actual horrible event?

Come off it

If you want to keep digging that hole, then crack on, but again, its not going to change that everyone can see that you apparently agree with the concept of concentration camps