Russia Invades

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:37 pm

Course, with Russia weak, then conflicts that had quietened down because of Russian troop deployments flare up again

https://twitter.com/EbabilHarekati/stat ... 8996729856

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:39 pm

More

https://twitter.com/KyleJGlen/status/15 ... 6844898304

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:02 pm

This Armenia v Azerbaijan conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh disputed region has been simmering/boiling for a few decades now.
There were some Russian peacekeeping troops stationed there but I guess some (all?) may've departed for Ukraine by now.

I've never got to grips with the geography or politics of this area wedged between Russia/ Turkey/ Iran but it does appear hostilities have broken out yet again. I get the impression the sides are fairly equally matched. I doubt Russia has the will to peace keep at the moment although they remain pally with Armenia I think (re Armenia helping with sanctions busting).

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:11 pm

Three brave people n Russian YV about to fall out of high buildings.
It’s coming apart in Russia.

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/statu ... 91dQuT1G6Q

Bullabill · Post by **Bullabill** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:12 pm

Hipper wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:20 pm
Yes I see that now. Good spot!

Flame outs I think they're called. Could be caused by anything then. Seems to coincide with reaching 180 degrees bank. Also looks like he flies into the wake of the first aircraft. Of course this pilot had no chance then, being so near to the ground and at 180 degrees bank (which is not a good angle for lift!)

180 degrees? That would make him inverted.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:43 pm

Bullabill wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:12 pm
180 degrees? That would make him inverted.

He did a low level banked turn, his engine failed at about 80% . From then he was just heading to his funeral.

Elbarad · Post by **Elbarad** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:58 am

LeadBelly wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:02 pm
This Armenia v Azerbaijan conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh disputed region has been simmering/boiling for a few decades now.
There were some Russian peacekeeping troops stationed there but I guess some (all?) may've departed for Ukraine by now.

I've never got to grips with the geography or politics of this area wedged between Russia/ Turkey/ Iran but it does appear hostilities have broken out yet again. I get the impression the sides are fairly equally matched. I doubt Russia has the will to peace keep at the moment although they remain pally with Armenia I think (re Armenia helping with sanctions busting).

The Azeris rather soundly defeated Armenia in their last war. Russia mediated a cease fire and provided ‘peace keepers’. Was the first widespread use of Byraktar drones. Russian supplied air defense didn’t learn their lesson. Azerbaijan got most of Nagorno-Karabakh back. Both sides lost a lot of men, but honestly I was surprised the Azeris stopped when they did. Armenia’s army had largely collapsed.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:14 am

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/putin-bailed- ... 56791.html
I reckon Putin will be falling from a hospital window very soon.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:42 am

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:14 am
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/putin-bailed- ... 56791.html
I reckon Putin will be falling from a hospital window very soon.

Definitely growing rumours of a coup:

https://www.cityam.com/nervous-kremlin- ... in-moscow/

If I were Ukraine I’d keep the pressure up, while they’re disorganised and demotivated. Not so much to win the war but potentially claim the ultimate prize.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:45 am

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:17 am
The only concern is that a couple of the pundits appear more deranged then Putin. Great ending and more cracks appearing.

They do, which is pretty concerning. How aligned they’ll be to him if his regime is toppled remains to be seen. I imagine some of this rhetoric is driven by fear.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:15 am

TonbridgeClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:54 pm
Has anyone seen an updated map? According to this, Ukraine has liberated a further 20 settlements today.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/surrender-fev ... 56989.html

I compared the maps on the 11th (which I posted on here earlier) and 12th of September reports of the Institute of war and there is very little if any change in both the Kharkiv and Kherson regions.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:20 am

Bullabill wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:12 pm
180 degrees? That would make him inverted.

!!! 90 degrees.

Apart from missing the flame out and getting the banking angle wrong I think I did pretty well.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:10 am

Almost beyond belief Putin left his forces outnumbered from anything upto 8 to 1 . For an orderly retreat in even passably good order without air or heavy artillery is just unthinkable. His generals seem to think it’s about 1971 with their tank and light infantry based warfare backed by sitting duck helicopters. Does Vlad think it’s 1943 ? With a 10 million strong army and gawd knows how many millions already used as canon fodder ? He’s on very shaky ground

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:16 am

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:10 am
Almost beyond belief Putin left his forces outnumbered from anything upto 8 to 1 . For an orderly retreat in even passably good order without air or heavy artillery is just unthinkable. His generals seem to think it’s about 1971 with their tank and light infantry based warfare backed by sitting duck helicopters. Does Vlad think it’s 1943 ? With a 10 million strong army and gawd knows how many millions already used as canon fodder ? He’s on very shaky ground

He's dumbed down on his miscalculations at the start, and his army has been seriously degraded to the extent that i'm not sure it can do anything other than defend now (certainly for over the winter)

And clearly motivation is a huge issue, the Russians appear to have little or no morale, and the conscripted DNR and LNR troops (who should have the highest motivation for fighting but most definitely haven't) appear to have little remaining fight left (and as many of them have been in the front lines without relief for months, is perfectly understandable)

Its hard to read what is going on (HUMNIT and SIGNIT missing, but a lot of RUMNIT (great new acronym btw) at the moment

My reading is that Russian reinforcements have stabilised the front in the Donestk and Lukansk oblasts, but at the costs of completely abandoning anything between the Kharkiv oblasts and the Russian border

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:47 am

Looking more and more likely the next phase of the Russian war will be carried out against the civilian population. After failing in the field he will now likely aim for freezing Ukraine into submission through the winter by bombing infrastructure.

… but he’s still not a terrorist, honest.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:51 am

Possibly already on here but….

NEXTA: The progress of the Armed Forces of #Ukraine in 4 days in two pictures.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/156 ... GW5nkt7sNg

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:24 am

KYIV INDEPENDENT: Forbes: Ukraine has destroyed nearly $700 million worth of Russian equipment in few days.

Ukraine’s General Staff said Russia has lost 2,850 troops and 590 pieces of equipment from Sept. 6 to 11, which Forbes estimates is worth over $670 million.

https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/sta ... GW5nkt7sNg

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:34 pm

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:10 am
Almost beyond belief Putin left his forces outnumbered from anything upto 8 to 1 . For an orderly retreat in even passably good order without air or heavy artillery is just unthinkable. His generals seem to think it’s about 1971 with their tank and light infantry based warfare backed by sitting duck helicopters. Does Vlad think it’s 1943 ? With a 10 million strong army and gawd knows how many millions already used as canon fodder ? He’s on very shaky ground

I'm wary of such figures - 8:1. They may be true but may also be part of the misinformation game.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:36 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:16 am
Its hard to read what is going on (HUMNIT and SIGNIT missing, but a lot of RUMNIT (great new acronym btw) at the moment

I always thought it was SIGINT.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:39 pm

Hipper wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:34 pm
I'm wary of such figures - 8:1. They may be true but may also be part of the misinformation game.

That's the problem with attempting to invade a country, a large % of the millions of 18+ men will arm up to defend their home land.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:51 pm

Hipper wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:36 pm
I always thought it was SIGINT.

Yup!

Typing too fast

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:06 pm

something seems to be going on for sure

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:39 pm

Another really interesting assessment of the danger of where things are heading, the comparison to germany in the 20’s is quite startling after defeat in the 1st world war..

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/09/12/ru ... far-right/

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:14 pm

Civil war is coming to Russia.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:37 pm

Uncivil

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:46 pm

Ukraine will be getting their maps of Russia out soon!

jos · Post by **jos** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:57 pm

JuliaDaviesNews
Putin ally Ivan Pechorin falls into the sea, adding to list of mysterious deaths suffered by Russian energy bosses.

https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/stat ... clMpCzi8RQ

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:07 pm

jos wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:57 pm
JuliaDaviesNews
Putin ally Ivan Pechorin falls into the sea, adding to list of mysterious deaths suffered by Russian energy bosses.

https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/stat ... clMpCzi8RQ

Russians seem to have a genetic defect re their sense of balance don't they? Always falling (out of windows, out of boats etc).

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:05 am

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 746be4c056
More signs of Russian desperation and isolation.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:33 pm

How much is true , it’s hard to tell but that “ fact “ that Russia appear to be losing huge % of their elite regiments is of huge significance. This is like the British army losing 70% of Para and Marine regiments and taking heavy losses in Gurkha , guards etc . Incredibly hard to replace at short notice and they could well end up with almost a “ citizens army “ ( not unlike Britain in WWII) . The amount of tanks and ordnance left behind also points to a lack of supplies /fuel and disorganisation.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:08 pm

This is a big thing I think, an elite battle unit destroyed in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/chuckpfarrer/status ... yl3_7yKu2g

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:27 pm

Ukraine Relief humanitarian charity is set to benefit from special edition Gibson guitars auction.

I'm happy with my Fender telecaster but one of these will make a prized possession for a rich few. I hope it raises a lot of money, there are a lot of damaged people/houses needing help/rebuilding in Ukraine -especially in areas where the Russians have done their dirty work (already hearing terrible stories from the retaken areas). Decent effort from some rock stars to promote this.
https://www.guitarworld.com/news/gibson ... ne-auction

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:09 pm

Not been able to read up these past few days. What’s happening? Feels like the counter offensive has stopped & they’re consolidating?

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:49 pm

Very strong suggestions and reports coming in that huge swathes of the russian forces in Kherson are about to surrender. Ran out of ammunition in large pockets unable to be re supplied.. this is from very reliable sources

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:51 pm

Goalposts wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:49 pm
Very strong suggestions and reports coming in that huge swathes of the russian forces in Kherson are about to surrender. Ran out of ammunition in large pockets unable to be re supplied.. this is from very reliable sources

Thing is, they have used cruise missiles to take out a dam on the Ingulets river which has washed away the Ukrainian armies pontoon bridges supporting their offensive towards the Dnipro

Be interesting to see if Russia use this respite to pull back further towards Kherson

The logical thing for them to do in a normal situation btw would be to counter attack that area, but I'm not sure they have the supplies or the morale for that

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:16 pm

Another point to now consider is the Armenian - azsebajani conflict. The Armenians have activated there clause 5 of the CSTP alliance (russian equivalence of Nato). In requesting support against the Azerbaijanis who have reclaimed some previous territory and hit Armenia with artillery.

Turkey backs Azerbaijan .. Russia backs Armenia .. and interestingly china backs Azerbaijan….

Things getting really tough for Russia now..

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 022-09-13/

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:29 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:51 pm
Thing is, they have used cruise missiles to take out a dam on the Ingulets river which has washed away the Ukrainian armies pontoon bridges supporting their offensive towards the Dnipro

Be interesting to see if Russia use this respite to pull back further towards Kherson

The logical thing for them to do in a normal situation btw would be to counter attack that area, but I'm not sure they have the supplies or the morale for that

It's difficult to work out the net effect of the river flooding. I guess it isolates the bridgehead that Ukraine has around Bruskynske but the river then flows SSW through Russian held land which Russians need to cross to get to the westernmost bit of what they hold north of Dnipro- making their logistics there even more difficult than they already are.
Hopefully the Ukrainians can get a new pontoon over the river to support their bridgehead.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:31 pm

LeadBelly wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:29 pm
It's difficult to work out the net effect of the river flooding. I guess it isolates the bridgehead that Ukraine has around Bruskynske but the river then flows SSW through Russian held land which Russians need to cross to get to the westernmost bit of what they hold north of Dnipro- making their logistics there even more difficult than they already are.
Hopefully the Ukrainians can get a new pontoon over the river to support their bridgehead.

Almost certainly the Russian pontoons would have been damaged/destroyed as well

Its a weird one, and I do wonder if the army and the air force where ordered to do this because of the civilian hardship it causes, even in the face of the military difficulties it results in, or even if the air force did it without checking with the army first, or even it being agreed and no one realising that if it took out the Ukrainian pontoons it would also take out the Russian ones.....

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:40 pm

Goalposts wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:16 pm
Another point to now consider is the Armenian - azsebajani conflict. The Armenians have activated there clause 5 of the CSTP alliance (russian equivalence of Nato). In requesting support against the Azerbaijanis who have reclaimed some previous territory and hit Armenia with artillery.

Turkey backs Azerbaijan .. Russia backs Armenia .. and interestingly china backs Azerbaijan….

Things getting really tough for Russia now..

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 022-09-13/

I saw some footage earlier today suggesting that Azerbaijan fire sruck some vehicles in Armenian territory that may well have been Russian "peacekeepers". There were pictures of a hit convoy but no definite indication they were Russian rather than Armenian. As you suggest- difficult for Russia to do much given their preoccupation with Ukraine and Turkey's backing of Azer.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:49 pm

Not sure if previously mentioned here that Kazakhstan is reported to be about to (at least temporarily) leave the Russian-led CSTO (Collective Security Treaty Organisation= a military alliance akin to NATO involving Russia, Belarus, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan).
China has made a statement of support for Kazakhstan, pointedly saying it promises to “categorically oppose the interference of any forces in the internal affairs of Kazakhstan, regardless of the international situation.”

Dominoes beginning to fall + China keeping its distance.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:24 pm

The Russian Federation is stretched on all fronts as they only have a population of 147 million, for a country that is 70 X larger than the UK that is a very sparsely populated land mass.

The Japanese are even starting to make noises that they want their Islands back in the North East that were handed to Russia at the end of the 2nd world war.

Things could get really interesting if Turkey backed Azerbaijan invade Armenia I can't see Russia capable of giving Armenia much assistance, this would trigger unrest through out the region

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:10 pm

LeadBelly wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:49 pm

China has made a statement of support for Kazakhstan, pointedly saying it promises to “categorically oppose the interference of any forces in the internal affairs of Kazakhstan, regardless of the international situation.”

Dominoes beginning to fall + China keeping its distance.

China has kept very quiet so far re its position re Russia however this high ranking Chinese Official makes it pretty clear that they are backing Russia all the way. The usual stuff is trotted out, US and NATO started the war, etc

https://twitter.com/i/status/1570090061416251398

Let's face it, they have got all our money now which they used to build up an internal market so they are not so dependent on the West for growth. Relations with the USA plummeted under Trump when he brought in his MAGA policies of re-shoring and then lambasting China for spreading COVID, etc. China are backing Russia as they have lots of raw materials, oil/gas minerals that China consumes at a rapid rate to sustain their exponential growth, plus they are eyeing up a potential re-claim of territory in Taiwan.

The CCP are basically just another gang like Putin, they are not interested in human rights whatsoever.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:33 pm

ClaretLoup wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:10 pm
China has kept very quiet so far re its position re Russia however this high ranking Chinese Official makes it pretty clear that they are backing Russia all the way. The usual stuff is trotted out, US and NATO started the war, etc

https://twitter.com/i/status/1570090061416251398

Let's face it, they have got all our money now which they used to build up an internal market so they are not so dependent on the West for growth. Relations with the USA plummeted under Trump when he brought in his MAGA policies of re-shoring and then lambasting China for spreading COVID, etc. China are backing Russia as they have lots of raw materials, oil/gas minerals that China consumes at a rapid rate to sustain their exponential growth, plus they are eyeing up a potential re-claim of territory in Taiwan.

The CCP are basically just another gang like Putin, they are not interested in human rights whatsoever.

While I agree with your sentiment… China has been given a lot more reason to hate the west than Russia does, going back to French colonialism and massively inflated by Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy… etc etc.

The Chinese are fence sitting. They are not ready to sustain their economy and need the West for pretty much all their tech. They will make the noises to Putin… they want his fuel, but they have obligations to some Soviet nations, who chose China over Russia when the block broke… (it is a very different form of Communism to the Russian version, neither is true to Marx theory).

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:35 pm

Looks like China are offering Putin a way out; he has admitted to China’s ‘concerns’ about the Ukraine war.
A nice economic package from China and hey presto; Putin will start talks and Germany will push for a cessation of arms supplies. Depending on the outcome of that chink in the alliance Putin claims his victory, or gets painted as the victim and uses it to save his position. Either way its a bandage on a broken leg. Putin can justify it to himself and plot his next move.

BBC: Vladimir Putin reveals China 'concern' over Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bbcworld/status/157 ... n5pWSydrHg

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:55 pm

Putin has run of troops and conscripts to send to Ukraine, hence them offering 6 month contracts to convicts who after 6 months are free men. Video can be seen on Twitter.
They just lost over 500 armoured vehicles when they retreated. Around 300 in working order.

Russia has over stretched itself and other countries and looking to attack and take land back not just Ukraine.

When Ukraine starts it next counter offensive and succeeds, Russia will go into melts down.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:16 pm

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:35 pm
Looks like China are offering Putin a way out; he has admitted to China’s ‘concerns’ about the Ukraine war.
A nice economic package from China and hey presto; Putin will start talks and Germany will push for a cessation of arms supplies. Depending on the outcome of that chink in the alliance Putin claims his victory, or gets painted as the victim and uses it to save his position. Either way its a bandage on a broken leg. Putin can justify it to himself and plot his next move.

BBC: Vladimir Putin reveals China 'concern' over Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bbcworld/status/157 ... n5pWSydrHg

You say China can pressure Russia, and Germany will call for a cessation, but what about Ukraine.
There can't be any peace unless it's acceptable to Ukraine, and they will want all their territory back, which Putin isn't going to give.
We have to back Ukraine regardless of any willingness for Putin to save his own arse. Any compromise would only delay another such special operation. I would be ashamed if we or the rest of the world, let them down.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:19 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:55 pm
Putin has run of troops and conscripts to send to Ukraine, hence them offering 6 month contracts to convicts who after 6 months are free men. Video can be seen on Twitter.
They just lost over 500 armoured vehicles when they retreated. Around 300 in working order.

Russia has over stretched itself and other countries and looking to attack and take land back not just Ukraine.

When Ukraine starts it next counter offensive and succeeds, Russia will go into melts down.

Now is the time to push not stall. Putin has to be teetering on the edge, any delay, or stalling, will just give him time to think up another outrage.

1882Clarets1882 · Post by **1882Clarets1882** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:21 pm

With Putins forces back peddling and leaving hardware behind it means Ukraine have had more weaponry off the Russians in the last 6 days than they've received from Germany in 6 months.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:21 pm

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:35 pm
Looks like China are offering Putin a way out; he has admitted to China’s ‘concerns’ about the Ukraine war.
A nice economic package from China and hey presto; Putin will start talks and Germany will push for a cessation of arms supplies. Depending on the outcome of that chink in the alliance Putin claims his victory, or gets painted as the victim and uses it to save his position. Either way its a bandage on a broken leg. Putin can justify it to himself and plot his next move.

BBC: Vladimir Putin reveals China 'concern' over Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bbcworld/status/157 ... n5pWSydrHg

There is helluva lot of speculation there, for which I can see no evidence whatsoever.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:26 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:16 pm
You say China can pressure Russia, and Germany will call for a cessation, but what about Ukraine.
There can't be any peace unless it's acceptable to Ukraine, and they will want all their territory back, which Putin isn't going to give.
We have to back Ukraine regardless of any willingness for Putin to save his own arse. Any compromise would only delay another such special operation. I would be ashamed if we or the rest of the world, let them down.

You are not arguing against what I think should happen; but some German Democrats are already looking for ceasefires. ‘Us’ backing Ukraine is only feasible in coalition, NATO and preferably the EU. But the Russian/China defence for their actions is perfectly true: Economically, at least, without America it is a very different proposition to stand against Europe, let alone Britain.