Swing Low....

[ClaretDiver]

So I have just read that the RFU are considering banning the song Sweet Chariot from being sung by fans due to it's links to slavery......also read that Uncle Bens rice is to be rebranded....when is this going to end??

[conyoviejo]

They would be better banning Rugby Yawnion instead.

[quoonbeatz]

I can already see the Twickers car park passes being returned in anger.

[IanMcL]

They need to play Andy Marriott!

Sorted!

[Vino blanco]

Silly billies, aren't they?

[timshorts]

But they can't do that........They only know one song.

[Stayingup]

I just wonder how will they ban it? Gag everyone? I think we are going to have to ban everything now. Books , songs, bistory - well thats gone and ask the offended but loud minorities if we can please have this or that. Haha

[Wile E Coyote]

where do we now stand on scots, english Irish banter, oh...and has harry enfields stavros character been erased ?

[Devils_Advocate]

I just wonder how will they ban it? Gag everyone? I think we are going to have to ban everything now. Books , songs, bistory - well thats gone and ask the offended but loud minorities if we can please have this or that. Haha

No need to over complicate it by banning everything and then asking our permission to re-allow it. Far easier for us to just tell you what needs to be banned as we go along

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

Ridiculous. It might have been written by a negro slave but it is an uplifting, religion based song.
Next they’ll be stopping all white, male singers covering Motown tracks.

[LeadBelly]

Hahaha, Id love to see the woke inquisition trying to police 80,000 England rugby fans.

[Devils_Advocate]

Next they’ll be stopping all white, male singers covering Motown tracks.

Good thinking, I'll raise it at my next marxist meeting with my fellow sandal wearers. Could you maybe email the idea to Black Lives Matter so we've got all bases covered

[ChrisG]

I always thought it was a 'rugger' song, but it was loud and clear in the England Holland Euro 96 match that was on the other night.

Loads of union flags flying too.

[RammyClaret61]

FF34761F-D962-4EFE-82E8-48EB1D7BC7CB.jpeg (217.61 KiB) Viewed 3852 times

[MACCA]

The start of change will only happen when people stop a accepting things because "that's how it's always been"

Just because "that's how it's always been" doesn't mean it's right.

If these are further positive steps, why would anyone be against them?

[fanzone]

Somewhere down the line the monarchy will have had slaves. Shall we get rid of the queen aswell. The country is f00ked. As soon as the rainbows and 100 different genders came to fruition we were only going one way. And the sh1t path is very slippy.

[JohnMcGreal]

Somewhere down the line the monarchy will have had slaves. Shall we get rid of the queen aswell.

Now you're talking.

[Burnley Ace]

All “Negro Spititual” songs are a bit iffy - Slaves transported from Africa, forbidden to speak their native tounge and forced to adopt Christianity.. its cultural appropriation, though Swing Low is about the journey to freedom on the Undergroud Railroad "I looked over Jordan and what did I see/ Coming for to carry me home/ A band of angels coming after me"

What happens to songs like Amazing Grace, which has been adopted as a modern day negro spiritual, referenced in the Harriet Beecher Stowe novel Uncle Toms Cabin, sung by Franklin and Charles even Obama sung it at Clements Pinckney’ funeral - that was written by a slave trader!

[NewClaret]

No need to over complicate it by banning everything and then asking our permission to re-allow it. Far easier for us to just tell you what needs to be banned as we go along

[fatboy47]

Somewhere down the line the monarchy will have had slaves. Shall we get rid of the queen aswell.




Works for me.

[Devils_Advocate]

What happens to songs like Amazing Grace, which has been adopted as a modern day negro spiritual, referenced in the Harriet Beecher Stowe novel Uncle Toms Cabin, sung by Franklin and Charles even Obama sung it at Clements Pinckney’ funeral - that was written by a slave trader!

Leave it with us we've got a lot to review but we will get round to it eventually and let you know if its banned or not. In the meantime be patient and just use your own good judgement

[evensteadiereddie]

The banning of "Swing Low" or similar songs will not happen even though it's, allegedly, being considered.
Crisis over.

[wilks_bfc]

I always thought it was a 'rugger' song, but it was loud and clear in the England Holland Euro 96 match that was on the other night.

Loads of union flags flying too.

I noticed that too and began to wonder which tournament the St George cross started to become more prominent. France 98?

[IanMcL]

A few years ago, there was the comedy programme by the Indian heritage folk (now major players owing to immense talent) who did the parodies of the English on a night out, but as Indians.

Hugely funny. Very accurate. Should that be seen as inappropriate now?

Crazy world.

[Burnley Ace]

Leave it with us we've got a lot to review but we will get round to it eventually and let you know if its banned or not. In the meantime be patient and just use your own good judgement

Singing a song written by a white English slave owner, the default position must be a suspension until a proper review can be held.

[Devils_Advocate]

Singing a song written by a white English slave owner, the default position must be a suspension until a proper review can be held.

You make a valid point but please dont try and get involved in decisions that dont concern you. This is for the noisy minority to decide thank you very much

You are free to exercise your own judgement so if you and your friends go on an England rugby match in the near future you do not have to join in with the racists

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Leave it with us we've got a lot to review but we will get round to it eventually and let you know if its banned or not. In the meantime be patient and just use your own good judgement

Stop trying to encourage people to think for themselves! You know as well as I do that they need to be told what to do so that they can follow the crowd mentality. As far as being patient is concerned, that really is a big ask in a modern society where they think that all you need to do is add water and it all happens.

[Devils_Advocate]

Stop trying to encourage people to think for themselves! You know as well as I do that they need to be told what to do so that they can follow the crowd mentality. As far as being patient is concerned, that really is a big ask in a modern society where they think that all you need to do is add water and it all happens.

Very true but these are tough times so compromise is needed. Your very astute point is duly noted though

[Clarets4me]

Following the logic, Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers and many many others should all be banned for cultural appropriation .... We'll never hear Elvis Presley's " American Trilogy " again ( The southern anthem " Dixie ", the spiritual " All my trials ", and " The Battle Hymn of the Republic " ), the three songs representing different strands of America fused together ....

[snapcrackleandpop]

Melting Pot by Blue Mink - banned or not?

[Devils_Advocate]

Following the logic, Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers and many many others should all be banned for cultural appropriation .... We'll never hear Elvis Presley's " American Trilogy " again ( The southern anthem " Dixie ", the spiritual " All my trials ", and " The Battle Hymn of the Republic " ), the three songs representing different strands of America fused together ....

We don't use logic we just think about peoples feelings when making decisions. This is why with the noisy minority back in charge the world will be a much nicer place

[Burnley Ace]

Melting Pot by Blue Mink - banned or not?

Obviously- https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/blue ... -82kpk7jht

You can’t use those sort of words/names today irrespective of the context that they were originally used in.

Fortunately we have a very recent precedent https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-engla ... e-53078576

Although we are all too sensitive to read the name of the pet cat I suspect that it’s the same pet name as Wing Commander Guy Gibson’s dog who’s name had to be changed first to Trigger and then, perhaps in even more sensitive times to Digger.

[Bigbopper]

I think Paul Robeson used to sing Swing Low. If so then that's good enough for me.

[Devils_Advocate]

Melting Pot by Blue Mink - banned or not?

Not banned

[Siddo]

The word "whoosh" springs to mind having read some of the replies on here.

[Stayingup]

No need to over complicate it by banning everything and then asking our permission to re-allow it. Far easier for us to just tell you what needs to be banned as we go along

Well that could amount to most things these days. Ref. Harry Potter pyre!!!

[Stayingup]

Could they say they are singing it as tribute to whoever it was that wrote the song.

Actually I like Rugby and watching England but I find this is rather like a dirge when they crack up with it, although it is a 17th century Spiritual and in that context has some real meaning.

[bfcjg]

Brian should be the judge of what is actually a racist song.
https://youtu.be/3w5WOb8jPLQ

[nil_desperandum]

I think Paul Robeson used to sing Swing Low. If so then that's good enough for me.

Well yes, of course, but that point isn't up for discussion in any case since it is a "Negro Spiritual" and Robeson was from a slave background so there's clearly no misappropriation there. It would have been a part of his cultural upbringing.

[Stanbill05]

I'd be amazed if it doesn't ring out more loudly than ever when the opportunity comes again. You can't ban things like this; what are they going to do? Make it illegal? LOL

[nil_desperandum]

What happens to songs like Amazing Grace, which has been adopted as a modern day negro spiritual, referenced in the Harriet Beecher Stowe novel Uncle Toms Cabin, sung by Franklin and Charles even Obama sung it at Clements Pinckney’ funeral - that was written by a slave trader!

Can't see why there should be any issue whatsoever with "Amazing grace".
Its text appears to be a firm rejection of its writer's past, and whilst the melody of the tune that we now associate with it is based on the 5 note pentatonic scale that is a feature of Spirituals melody, it does not originate in "slave music" and was not composed until the late 1840s, and therefore has no link whatsoever with the author - John Newton.
John Newton was originally a conscript in the Royal Navy and became involved in the slave trade but was converted to Christianity in the early 1850s and became a clergyman. He later became a great friend of the reformer Willliam Wilberforce, who (as most people will know led the campaign to abolish slavery).
Newton wrote the text for Amazing grace as early as 1779, 26 years before the abolition of slavery in 1805. Its first verse:
"Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see" is generally considered to be confirmation of Newton's conversion to Christianity and having his eyes opened to the "sins" of his past.
Newton's previous participation in the slave trade was his "wretchedness".
Neither Amazing Grace nor Swing Low will be banned.

[Brunlea]

It’s interesting the way these things are reported. In one paper the reporters implied the song was adopted by the rugby supporters when we had two outstanding black wingers which is not correct as I can remember it being sung in a local rugby club in 70s. A lot of the media on all sides seem to be being deliberately naive or producing badly researched agenda led stories that are far from helpful!

[Burnley Ace]

Can't see why there should be any issue whatsoever with "Amazing grace".
Its text appears to be a firm rejection of its writer's past, and whilst the melody of the tune that we now associate with it is based on the 5 note pentatonic scale that is a feature of Spirituals melody, it does not originate in "slave music" and was not composed until the late 1840s, and therefore has no link whatsoever with the author - John Newton.
John Newton was originally a conscript in the Royal Navy and became involved in the slave trade but was converted to Christianity in the early 1850s and became a clergyman. He later became a great friend of the reformer Willliam Wilberforce, who (as most people will know led the campaign to abolish slavery).
Newton wrote the text for Amazing grace as early as 1779, 26 years before the abolition of slavery in 1805. Its first verse:
"Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see" is generally considered to be confirmation of Newton's conversion to Christianity and having his eyes opened to the "sins" of his past.
Newton's previous participation in the slave trade was his "wretchedness".
Neither Amazing Grace nor Swing Low will be banned.

You can’t just choose to reject your past in some sort of Carte Blanche act of redemption! Coulson donated the modern equivalent of millions of pounds to hospitals, schools and civil buildings yet his past isn’t expunged.

I’m not saying it should be banned but in the same way we don’t hear Gary Glitter or Rolf Harris, this song written by a man whose profiteering and exploitation of salves is arguably as bad if not worse then their crimes isn’t subjected to the same scrutiny or opprobrium.

[dsr]

All “Negro Spititual” songs are a bit iffy - Slaves transported from Africa, forbidden to speak their native tounge and forced to adopt Christianity.. its cultural appropriation ...

Cultural appropriation is a dreadful thing. I saw a black man in an orchestra the other day, playing music written almost exclusively by white Europeans. Cultural appropriation at its worst?

It's a big issue with football. It was codified, if not invented, in England. Can we stop Johnny Foreigner playing it (or at least, stop him playing it better than us!) on the grounds of cultural appropriation?

[dsr]

You can’t just choose to reject your past in some sort of Carte Blanche act of redemption! Coulson donated the modern equivalent of millions of pounds to hospitals, schools and civil buildings yet his past isn’t expunged.

I’m not saying it should be banned but in the same way we don’t hear Gary Glitter or Rolf Harris, this song written by a man whose profiteering and exploitation of salves is arguably as bad if not worse then their crimes isn’t subjected to the same scrutiny or opprobrium.

No forgiveness possible? That's the antithesis of Amazing Grace. Christianity says your sins can be forgiven; you, presumably, disagree.

[Burnley Ace]

Cultural appropriation is a dreadful thing. I saw a black man in an orchestra the other day, playing music written almost exclusively by white Europeans. Cultural appropriation at its worst?

It's a big issue with football. It was codified, if not invented, in England. Can we stop Johnny Foreigner playing it (or at least, stop him playing it better than us!) on the grounds of cultural appropriation?

and Cricket!! It’s just take take take by these people, they will be wanting financial compensation next.

[Tribesmen]

Goodness will this ever end , i am sure the snowflakes are thinking of more things to ban as i type .

[Burnley Ace]

No forgiveness possible? That's the antithesis of Amazing Grace. Christianity says your sins can be forgiven; you, presumably, disagree.

Can all sins be forgiven? Its rather arrogant to presume (in this multi cultural society) that because Christianity forgives a sin then all other religions must follow suit and that (historically white) Christian values supersede all others. That thinking is almost racist.

[JohnMac]

If this was to spark the banning of the utterly offensive, overtly sexist, violence encouraging and most definitely racist RAP music then it's not a bad trade off.

[Quicknick]

If it is banned, the whole ground should sing it for 20 minutes.