Blue Passports to be made in France

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:11 am

Top work from the Brexiteers.

British job losses ahoy.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... dutch-firm

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:11 am

Clutching at straws UTB

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:12 am

I'll stick with my British made European passport then

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:13 am

No one ever said anything about not trading with the EU.

Cheap fishing trip. Try harder.

...much harder

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:14 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43489462" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Under EU procurement rules, the Home Office had been required to throw open the bidding process to European firms.

De La Rue, which has held the contract to manufacture British passports since 2009, said it it had been "undercut on price" by Gemalto.

Culture Secretary Matthew Hancock said a final decision had not been made.

So under current EU rules the government had to put it out to EU wide tender and went with the best price as a result...

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:18 am

Not EU rules though is it, because France has protection on things like this, as the original article states.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:20 am

All government departments have to go with the lowest price (did a bit on procurement whilst in the NHS) unless you've got an amazingly good reason (normally, product doesn't work)

Same thing would have happened under WTO rules as well btw.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:21 am

Ringo’s week goes from bad to worse.
Poor chap.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:22 am

Maybe this is a good example of the studies showing that the north east will suffer most from Brexit, as our own government pulls the carpet from beneath their feet.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/no ... h-14260552
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/tees ... t-14261127
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 99746.html
https://news.sky.com/story/hit-to-north ... k-11240254
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ked-report

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:23 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Not EU rules though is it, because France has protection on things like this, as the original article states.

From your article -

Gemalto offers what its website calls an “end to end ePassport solution”, and is involved in the production of 30 countries’ passports.

Under EU competition rules, large public procurement contracts must be offered to companies across the the bloc.

It is unclear how the government’s approach may change after Brexit, but countries seeking to strike new trade deals with the UK are likely to seek enhanced access to public contracts.

Also worth noting said company makes passports for a lot of different countries.
It would appear certain countries pick and choose which EU rules to follow and put their own rules in place to protect their own countries businesses without any punishment from the EU...
The UK doesn't appear to do the same and follows the EU rulebook in this instance.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:24 am

The Home Office said on Wednesday night that no final decision had been made on where the new passports would be printed. A spokeswoman said: “We are running a fair and open competition to ensure that the new contract delivers a high quality and secure product and offers the best value for money for customers.

Also from your article.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:27 am

If they don't go with the cheapest offer Sid, then they will have to justify that decision to their own auditors.

It makes perfect sense to buy British in things like steel for warships, but you'd struggle to find justification (other than it looks really, really, really bad if you are a Brexiteer) for changing this decision on passports.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:32 am

It is hilarious that the icon the Brexiters tied themselves to, this magical blue passport, is to be made abroad.

Hahahahahaha.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:34 am

Why would anyone in Europe, or let alone the world, buy British, if European firms can do it cheaper, and there won't be masses of red tape involved?

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:35 am

Thought they were Dutch not French??

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:38 am

Just shows the benefits of free trade, it's saved the tax payer 50m as well, what's not to like ?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:39 am

claretandy wrote:Just shows the benefits of free trade, it's saved the tax payer 50m as well, what's not to like ?

You'll have to net off the unemployment benefits for the working class British workers forced onto the dole.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:41 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:If they don't go with the cheapest offer Sid, then they will have to justify that decision to their own auditors.

It makes perfect sense to buy British in things like steel for warships, but you'd struggle to find justification (other than it looks really, really, really bad if you are a Brexiteer) for changing this decision on passports.

British steel is expensive, so it doesn't make sense to buy British, unless I'm missing the sarcasm?

It doesn't at present look really bad because as stated on both articles on here there has been no final decision yet.
It will look a bit daft if they go with it, but they're saving £50 million.
The UK company then needs to look at it's own processes and see if there are ways of being more cost effective.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:41 am

Not many rival passport-making firms around Gateshead for them to go to are there?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:44 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Not many rival passport-making firms around Gateshead for them to go to are there?

De La Rue makes products for other countries, so I assume for fairness you'll be expecting those countries to find their own businesses to make stuff for them?
That's what this is about isn't it?
Homegrown businesses making products for their government?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:45 am

Joint ventures established and running – De La Rue has had a joint venture with the Government and Central Bank of Sri Lanka since 1986
Local print capabilities – De La Rue has set up manufacturing sites in Kenya and Malta
Local skills and alignment – De La Rue is a key strategic partner for the Government of Malta in its National Identity Management System (NIDMS)

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:48 am

British steel is expensive, so it doesn't make sense to buy British,

No sarcasm at all Sid, it makes sense for something that is vital to the national security to be sourced in the UK.

Blue passports don't come into that category.

Should have made my point clearer really.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:48 am

So how does that help the passport printers in Gateshead?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:50 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:So how does that help the passport printers in Gateshead?

De La Rue could always make more products in the UK for its other contracts, but as I've shown they have places in Kenya and Malta making items.

Is the UK passport the only one they make?
Do they make anything else in Gateshead?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:50 am

It's brilliant how the UTC Brexiteers have come out to defend the decision, when people like Priti Patel and the like have condemned it.

It's all because of the way I phrased my OP, and the way you felt you had to defend something against me, regardless of what it is.

You're charlatans, to a man.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:52 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:No sarcasm at all Sid, it makes sense for something that is vital to the national security to be sourced in the UK.

Blue passports don't come into that category.

Should have made my point clearer really.

It doesn't make sense if the steel is more expensive though, certainly not from a business point of view and we all castigate the government a lot for over spending over the years and I apply that to both parties.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:54 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:It's brilliant how the UTC Brexiteers have come out to defend the decision, when people like Priti Patel and the like have condemned it.

It's all because of the way I phrased my OP, and the way you felt you had to defend something against me, regardless of what it is.

You're charlatans, to a man.

I've made valid points, posted and copied links like you do...

It's EU policy to put a big contract out to tender....the EU you love so much is causing this issue.
Yes the UK could put rules in place like other EU countries seem to do, but then we aren't playing by the EU rules.

Some of us commented because it's worthy of discussion.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:55 am

Walton wrote:It is hilarious that the icon the Brexiters tied themselves to, this magical blue passport, is to be made abroad.

Hahahahahaha.

Remainers have tied the passport to Brexit more than anyone else it appears at times.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:58 am

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:59 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Top work from the Brexiteers.

British job losses ahoy.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... dutch-firm

Missing a trick not titling this thread: Sacre Bleu (passports)!

TractorFace · Post by **TractorFace** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:02 am

Got to love the hypocrisy on here from the resident Brexit belmers.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:04 am

As a general point it's simply incorrect to say that government departments must award a contract to the lowest bidder under EU procurement regulations.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:05 am

TractorFace wrote:Got to love the hypocrisy on here from the resident Brexit belmers.

Such as?

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:06 am

Sidney1st wrote:Remainers have tied the passport to Brexit more than anyone else it appears at times.

To quote Alan Partridge, that's bo**ocks

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/89579 ... -Farage-UK

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:06 am

taio wrote:As a general point it's simply incorrect to say that government departments must award a contract to the lowest bidder under EU procurement regulations.

They've not awarded it to anyone yet according to articles, it's the business spreading the news.

It's apparently perfectly fine for De La Rue to do work for foreign governments, but not fine for the UK to get something done outside the UK...

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:07 am

Walton wrote:To quote Alan Partridge, that's bo**ocks

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/89579 ... -Farage-UK

I meant on here, you lot mention it far more than anyone else does.

I didn't have you down for a sun reader btw.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:10 am

You're tying yourself in knots Sidney.

Charlatan.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:15 am

In knots about what exactly?

I've given valid reasons why they've looked at awarding it to a company outside of the UK (it hasn't been confirmed as a done deal yet).

I've also pointed out that De La Rue do work for foreign governments.

What knot am I in and why am I a charlatan?

a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:26 am

I agree UpTheBeehole, it'd be funny to watch one of the knuckle-dragging little Englanders' head explode at this news. But as with all the swipes from one side to the other in this 'debate', the point missed is that 99 per cent of those who voted to leave won't be bothered at all by this.

Equally, not all remain voters are unpatriotic sandal wearers (me, for instance).

This is a sensible deal, and an indication that the world will just carry on as always. There may be trouble ahead, winners and losers in the UK and within the EU, but only a tiny minority gives a hoot what colour the passport is.

TractorFace · Post by **TractorFace** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:28 am

Made in France, eh? It's enough to make your local Brexit pleb cry into their Brew Ten.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:08 pm

Doubt it, it's only a passport and at some point in the future they'll find a better system anyway

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:29 pm

Sidney1st wrote:It doesn't make sense if the steel is more expensive though, certainly not from a business point of view and we all castigate the government a lot for over spending over the years and I apply that to both parties.

I think what Lancaster is driving at is that steel has strategic importance. If we had no access to make our own and suddenly have the need to embark on a massive armament programme, it would be no good if we had to rely on steel coming from abroad.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:31 pm

If we suddenly need to embark on a massive armament program I suspect that there wouldn't be enough British steel, that industry has been driven into the ground hasn't it?

Partly due to high prices.

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:All government departments have to go with the lowest price (did a bit on procurement whilst in the NHS) unless you've got an amazingly good reason (normally, product doesn't work)

Same thing would have happened under WTO rules as well btw.

That's not the case in DWP, HMRC, MoJ and MoD in the time I've worked in the governmental and commercial industry.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 pm

On this forum and other social platforms, I would say approximately 99% of the references to "Blue Passport" that I read come from those to whom leaving the EU is akin to the arrival of The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Several have already reared their heads on this thread, as I expected when I opened it. I would also have narrowed the OP down to one of two posters and again, like a well rounded Texan at an all you can eat buffet, they stepped up to the plate

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 pm

I voted Remain and to be quite honest I couldn't care less where our passports are made. A contract is put out for tender and the most attractive proposition wins. That's pretty basic stuff.

However, I do find the irony of this particular item being manufactured in the EU absolutely hilarious. The blue passports were meant to signal the start of us taking back control and moving away from the evil EU empire. It's a faux pas to say the least and clearly it's going to highlighted by many Remain voters as proof that Brexit is a total shambles... whether they've for a valid point or not!

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:38 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:On this forum and other social platforms, I would say approximately 99% of the references to "Blue Passport" that I read come from those to whom leaving the EU is akin to the arrival of The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Several have already reared their heads on this thread, as I expected when I opened it. I would also have narrowed the OP down to one of two posters and again, like a well rounded Texan at an all you can eat buffet, they stepped up to the plate

We use it to take the mickey out of you swivel-eyed Brexiteers who came up with it in the first place.

I didn't even know that passports were any other colour than the magnificent claret which I've always had.

TractorFace · Post by **TractorFace** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:40 pm

I can't believe that someone has actually said it's ONLY a passport? Blimey. How dare anyone say our Brexit Blue is 'only a passport'?

Espia · Post by **Espia** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:18 pm

Quite frankly I don't care whether the passport is red or blue. It's not important. However, I do think the UK government have a responsibility to look after our own economy first and foremost and promote the well being of British businesses and jobs over foreign ones.

I would happily pay a few quid extra for my passport in order to support British people in British jobs.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:31 pm

Of course it's all largely irrelevant in the real world, but the whole argument for returning to Blue passports and the tumpeting of it as some kind of iconic moment of our time (and hence the mockery attached to it) was that symbolism was important. Well, the fact that they'll be made in France is equally symbolic of the farce that is being played out in the name of 'taking back control.' Suck it up, Brexiteers - you can't have it both ways.