Burnley FC- What do we stand for?

CottonopolisClaret · Post by **CottonopolisClaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:38 pm

For me, our foreshortened European adventure has finally caused me to question my very allegiance to a club that I have followed home and away (and still do) for 50 years. They have been 50 years of struggle. My first year was '68. My first real memory (born of trauma no doubt) was of Swindon at home- dreams of a trip to Wembley come to nought. The first of so many shattered dreams. But would I swap the ups- and downs of these last 50 years for any other experience? Of course not. Throughout that period I, and I firmly believed until this past month, that everyone shared my belief- that one day we could by dint of fortune reclaim our position at the very pinnacle of the League. Was that just a fantasy held so long? Of course not, because Leicester City did it-they did it their way- but nontheless did it. And so when we reached 7th, I was one that was not content with that- I wanted 6th (and even 5th for one brief moment in time,) and automatic entry to Europe. I dreamed of Milan, Marseilles, Seville. Of Dyche going toe to toe with top European coaches. I dreamed of glory and told anybody who would listen that the team that went 23 undefeated, playing Saturday, Tuesday, week in week out, would not be bothered about squad size and Thursday -Sunday. I believed that we would play our strongest team and take on all comers.That the cognoscenti in Italy would talk of blocked shots and defensive heroics and 23 pass goals. Not for one moment did I think that we would give in before the challenge began. And give in for what? Just to be in the Premier League? To enjoy the illusory objects of success- the training ground, the whirlpools, the first class press facilities?
So all that has caused me to think again about who we are? What do we stand for? Are we that Club that others accuse us of? Brexiteers? Racist? Small- minded? Little Burnley. What actually is our identity? Are we forever more destined to be that club clinging on to the premier league precipice. That though is not for me. Premiership money has provided us with the opportunity to do something memorable- to mark our time in this fantasy land by doing good for the community- by reinventing the club for the future. Is it fantasy to think that we might just be different? Why can we not be the Rayo Vallecano of the Premier League? https://www.theguardian.com/football/vi ... eams-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:44 pm

And your point is?

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:47 pm

CottonopolisClaret wrote:For me, our foreshortened European adventure has finally caused me to question my very allegiance to a club that I have followed home and away (and still do) for 50 years. They have been 50 years of struggle. My first year was '68. My first real memory (born of trauma no doubt) was of Swindon at home- dreams of a trip to Wembley come to nought. The first of so many shattered dreams. But would I swap the ups- and downs of these last 50 years for any other experience? Of course not. Throughout that period I, and I firmly believed until this past month, that everyone shared my belief- that one day we could by dint of fortune reclaim our position at the very pinnacle of the League. Was that just a fantasy held so long? Of course not, because Leicester City did it-they did it their way- but nontheless did it. And so when we reached 7th, I was one that was not content with that- I wanted 6th (and even 5th for one brief moment in time,) and automatic entry to Europe. I dreamed of Milan, Marseilles, Seville. Of Dyche going toe to toe with top European coaches. I dreamed of glory and told anybody who would listen that the team that went 23 undefeated, playing Saturday, Tuesday, week in week out, would not be bothered about squad size and Thursday -Sunday. I believed that we would play our strongest team and take on all comers.That the cognoscenti in Italy would talk of blocked shots and defensive heroics and 23 pass goals. Not for one moment did I think that we would give in before the challenge began. And give in for what? Just to be in the Premier League? To enjoy the illusory objects of success- the training ground, the whirlpools, the first class press facilities?
So all that has caused me to think again about who we are? What do we stand for? Are we that Club that others accuse us of? Brexiteers? Racist? Small- minded? Little Burnley. What actually is our identity? Are we forever more destined to be that club clinging on to the premier league precipice. That though is not for me. Premiership money has provided us with the opportunity to do something memorable- to mark our time in this fantasy land by doing good for the community- by reinventing the club for the future. Is it fantasy to think that we might just be different? Why can we not be the Rayo Vallecano of the Premier League? https://www.theguardian.com/football/vi ... eams-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rainbow coloured shirt? Is that what you want ?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:48 pm

So you want us to have a striped shirt to represent the fight against homophobia and other causes?

Can't see that going down well on here tbh.

CottonopolisClaret · Post by **CottonopolisClaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:49 pm

Rainbow coloured shirt? Is that what you want ? Is that all you can take from that a desire to have rainbow coloured shirt? or and 'your point is?'

CottonopolisClaret · Post by **CottonopolisClaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:53 pm

What about using a huge amount of the money on Equality and inclusivity? Or lowering ticket prices? Or paying staff more money? Ensuring that the people who pour your pint get more than the national minimum wage? That would be a start?

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:59 pm

Meanwhile in the world outside football................

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:01 pm

Oh Jeremy Corbyn, oh Jeremy Corbyn!!!

CottonopolisClaret · Post by **CottonopolisClaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:05 pm

I don't think its Corbynist to want the bogs in the Jimmy Mac to function properly. Or for us to be able to hold our heads up to say that we're socially inclusive? Do you?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:08 pm

So you're championing a wide range of clauses but made a long rambling speech about it without getting to that point?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:17 pm

CottonopolisClaret wrote:For me, our foreshortened European adventure has finally caused me to question my very allegiance to a club that I have followed home and away (and still do) for 50 years. They have been 50 years of struggle. My first year was '68. My first real memory (born of trauma no doubt) was of Swindon at home- dreams of a trip to Wembley come to nought. The first of so many shattered dreams. But would I swap the ups- and downs of these last 50 years for any other experience? Of course not. Throughout that period I, and I firmly believed until this past month, that everyone shared my belief- that one day we could by dint of fortune reclaim our position at the very pinnacle of the League. Was that just a fantasy held so long? Of course not, because Leicester City did it-they did it their way- but nontheless did it. And so when we reached 7th, I was one that was not content with that- I wanted 6th (and even 5th for one brief moment in time,) and automatic entry to Europe. I dreamed of Milan, Marseilles, Seville. Of Dyche going toe to toe with top European coaches. I dreamed of glory and told anybody who would listen that the team that went 23 undefeated, playing Saturday, Tuesday, week in week out, would not be bothered about squad size and Thursday -Sunday. I believed that we would play our strongest team and take on all comers.That the cognoscenti in Italy would talk of blocked shots and defensive heroics and 23 pass goals. Not for one moment did I think that we would give in before the challenge began. And give in for what? Just to be in the Premier League? To enjoy the illusory objects of success- the training ground, the whirlpools, the first class press facilities?
So all that has caused me to think again about who we are? What do we stand for? Are we that Club that others accuse us of? Brexiteers? Racist? Small- minded? Little Burnley. What actually is our identity? Are we forever more destined to be that club clinging on to the premier league precipice. That though is not for me. Premiership money has provided us with the opportunity to do something memorable- to mark our time in this fantasy land by doing good for the community- by reinventing the club for the future. Is it fantasy to think that we might just be different? Why can we not be the Rayo Vallecano of the Premier League? https://www.theguardian.com/football/vi ... eams-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Never knew you followed Burnley so closely Sir Ian Mckellen

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:25 pm

The Club I think do a hell of a lot for the community, both charity and local businesses.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:28 pm

The PL has changed beyond all recognition since the 1968 top flight season. If 7th wasn't good enough and you wanted 6th or 5th you might need to lower your expectation levels. It is a miracle we have achieved what we have. Hopefully we can maintain being in the PL or do something in the cups ( not so sure about the latter under Dyche) but I think we will struggle to hit anything above 7th for a long time if ever.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:29 pm

I'm going to watch an episode of 'Boardwalk Empire', which I recorded earlier. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to carry on this socially inclusive dialogue, catch you later.g

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:31 pm

CottonopolisClaret ----there is a job waiting for you ---just apply!

https://www.burnleyfccommunity.org/burn ... ory-group/

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:37 pm

I generally agree. In 5, 10 or 15 years time, when we are back in L1 or the Champ, I suspect we will conclude the Olympiacos game was the one where the dream began to die. It’ll just take people different lengths of time to realise it. There have to be dreams, and now we know we will choose to chuck the chance, how can we dream of it again? We have had a few Premier years now, so that cannot be the dream any more. The dream has to be Cups, Europe, glory.

That’s why it was an error of monumental proportions by the club - unless of course it was done in the knowledge that the feeling of missed opportunity will be longer term and the tenure of those in charge will be short term? Surely they weren’t that cynical but I’m an optimist, and I feel strangely negative about this, so I do begin to wonder.

It can still be redeemed - just. By a grovelling apology and claiming uniquely difficult circumstances, and a promise never to do it again. That though will not come.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:45 pm

You were on to a hiding coming on here discussing the club and its role in our lives, CC.
Far too many of this board's members seem to be happy being miserable and bitter with their lot - I won't generalise but I can guess their values and aspirations don't add up to much.
Nah, as far as supportig BFC goes, much better to turn up - or not - and praise the lads and Dyche when it's all going well and then stick the boot in when its not.
Your experience has served you well, CC, I'm a little like you in that Premier League football is not the be all and end all of my support for Burnley.
Niave, happy clapper, old git - I don't care - if the club loses its identity and sells out to the PL circus, I'd rather be a top Championship club.
At the moment, we seem to have the best of both worlds, our community spirit is strong and our values continue to be those of integrity and reasonable financial prudence.
We have a board/management team to be proud of. I hope it stays that way.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:47 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I generally agree. In 5, 10 or 15 years time, when we are back in L1 or the Champ, I suspect we will conclude the Olympiacos game was the one where the dream began to die. It’ll just take people different lengths of time to realise it. There have to be dreams, and now we know we will choose to chuck the chance, how can we dream of it again? We have had a few Premier years now, so that cannot be the dream any more. The dream has to be Cups, Europe, glory.

That’s why it was an error of monumental proportions by the club - unless of course it was done in the knowledge that the feeling of missed opportunity will be longer term and the tenure of those in charge will be short term? Surely they weren’t that cynical but I’m an optimist, and I feel strangely negative about this, so I do begin to wonder.

It can still be redeemed - just. By a grovelling apology and claiming uniquely difficult circumstances, and a promise never to do it again. That though will not come.

Go back to that Swindon game...it was gut wrenching to lose that game knowing Arsenal awaited...it was like the end of the world so near yet so far from a wembley appearance.. Then we got there 20 years later all be it in a different format.. That was a long long wait but we got there in the end.keep positive DareTo Dream!

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:49 pm

At the moment I really enjoy standing to clap Dwight McNeil

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:52 pm

Exactly, tim. It still irks me that a flu-ridden Arsenal side were there for the taking but there was no weakened team, no resting of key players, we simply messed up.
As we did at Hillsborough and so on.
Keep the faith. We'll be reyt and when we are, we can turn to the doubters and tell 'em where to go.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:54 pm

Hi Cottonopolisclaret,

I think your ideals have fallen on deaf ears. Although it must be said the club already does remarkably well on a lot of the fronts that you mentioned.

I get your thoughts regarding what is it actually all about, and rather than playing an endless loop we can make a break somewhere for the better.

It's a bit of a pipe dream but nothing wrong with having dreams. A better avenue is to contact the club rather than a mix of fans.

Wokingclaret · Post by **Wokingclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:26 pm

An honest football club, with a fantastic history and hopefully a bright future.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:28 pm

That'll do me.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:38 pm

What do we stand for? Are we that Club that others accuse us of? Brexiteers?

Yes

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:39 pm

In the BL a dodgy call by the linesman

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:31 am

Wow, crosspool has a rival

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:58 am

I can't see the "whoever doesnt bounce is a fascist" chant going down very well in the Bob Lord stand.

Perhaps the club should stop selling pies, Twix & Bovril and switch to tubs of quinoa,fairtrade organic dark chocolate bars & hot pumpkin vegan drinks. Should also be a "safe space" meditation room available from 2 hours before Ko to 2 hours afterwards.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:00 am

Why would they do that ? Has anybody suggested or even hinted they should ?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:52 am

The over reaction to the Olympiakos games is laughable.

The team we put out in both legs cost considerablely more to put together than the Olympiacos team. If any of their team was good enough for the Premier League they would be playing here and trebling their wages.

We played poorly in the first leg and the ref had a shocker. We should have won the return leg by 4 or 5 goals. We didn’t and went out.

Yes we rested a few players but a number of these were dropped for the United game anyway so who knows how near to his “best” eleven Dyche player anyway ?

Saying that the club is in danger of losing its identity fundamentally because we got beat by a team who are in the Champions League every year is a bit over the top.

Those fans who think we should be looking to improve on 7th and win cups are deluded in my view - and sadly for them they are going to be in for a very disappointing few years supporting Burnley.

Me - i’m still in a 10 year daze that we are even in this league and competing against some of the best players in the world.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:32 am

TVC15 wrote:The over reaction to the Olympiakos games is laughable.

The team we put out in both legs cost considerablely more to put together than the Olympiacos team. If any of their team was good enough for the Premier League they would be playing here and trebling their wages.

We played poorly in the first leg and the ref had a shocker. We should have won the return leg by 4 or 5 goals. We didn’t and went out.

Yes we rested a few players but a number of these were dropped for the United game anyway so who knows how near to his “best” eleven Dyche player anyway ?

Saying that the club is in danger of losing its identity fundamentally because we got beat by a team who are in the Champions League every year is a bit over the top.

Those fans who think we should be looking to improve on 7th and win cups are deluded in my view - and sadly for them they are going to be in for a very disappointing few years supporting Burnley.

Me - i’m still in a 10 year daze that we are even in this league and competing against some of the best players in the world.

Don't think anyone is expecting us to improve on 7th or win cups, but surely we have to strive for something? There's more to football than aiming to finish 17th in the Prem every year and banking the T.V money. Sadly, after our pathetic efforts in the transfer market this summer and Dyche's disregard for the cup competitions I think the club are taking exactly that view.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:52 am

I’m not sure why the Europa experience would make the OP question his support for the club, and I would question the assertion that we “gave in before the challenge began”.

Whatever our championship experience, playing twice a week at this level and so early in the season was always going to require some squad rotation. What I witnessed last Thursday was nothing less than 11 men giving it their all. That we came up short was down to nothing more than poor finishing, but that’s football. Would playing “first choice” Wood instead of Vokes have changed that? I’m not convinced.

What we stand for is to demonstrate that a club with traditional values can survive and sometimes thrive in the circus that is the Premier League. I’m as gutted as you about Europe, but proud that we go there in the first place by being “best of the rest” - a colossal achievement for a club of our stature, particularly baring in mind the way we are run.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:57 am

CottonopolisClaret wrote:For me, our foreshortened European adventure has finally caused me to question my very allegiance to a club that I have followed home and away (and still do) for 50 years. They have been 50 years of struggle. My first year was '68. My first real memory (born of trauma no doubt) was of Swindon at home- dreams of a trip to Wembley come to nought. The first of so many shattered dreams. But would I swap the ups- and downs of these last 50 years for any other experience? Of course not. Throughout that period I, and I firmly believed until this past month, that everyone shared my belief- that one day we could by dint of fortune reclaim our position at the very pinnacle of the League. Was that just a fantasy held so long? Of course not, because Leicester City did it-they did it their way- but nontheless did it. And so when we reached 7th, I was one that was not content with that- I wanted 6th (and even 5th for one brief moment in time,) and automatic entry to Europe. I dreamed of Milan, Marseilles, Seville. Of Dyche going toe to toe with top European coaches. I dreamed of glory and told anybody who would listen that the team that went 23 undefeated, playing Saturday, Tuesday, week in week out, would not be bothered about squad size and Thursday -Sunday. I believed that we would play our strongest team and take on all comers.That the cognoscenti in Italy would talk of blocked shots and defensive heroics and 23 pass goals. Not for one moment did I think that we would give in before the challenge began. And give in for what? Just to be in the Premier League? To enjoy the illusory objects of success- the training ground, the whirlpools, the first class press facilities?
So all that has caused me to think again about who we are? What do we stand for? Are we that Club that others accuse us of? Brexiteers? Racist? Small- minded? Little Burnley. What actually is our identity? Are we forever more destined to be that club clinging on to the premier league precipice. That though is not for me. Premiership money has provided us with the opportunity to do something memorable- to mark our time in this fantasy land by doing good for the community- by reinventing the club for the future. Is it fantasy to think that we might just be different? Why can we not be the Rayo Vallecano of the Premier League? https://www.theguardian.com/football/vi ... eams-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Absolutely top post and my sentiments entirely. Of course I'm not going to stop my support for the club who I supported as a young child in the dream days and, much like yourself, actually watched my first game at the Turf in the late 60's (Derby county - FA Cup 3rd round). But like you I have questioned myself because of the absolutely disgraceful way we treated the Europa League competition. At the risk of offending all the 'Dyche can do no wrong' club (and there are understandably thousands, of which I was one until recently) I hate managers who field weakened teams in competitions because they think that they are unimportant. There was a time when clubs were fined for it (Burnley many years ago indeed were) and it stinks. It belittles the competition, it insults your opponents and it rips off fans who pay hard earned money to watch the first team, especially in a European campaign that many of us have dreamed of for decades. And what has it achieved, we are now out of it and we are still rooted near the bottom of the money pit that is the PL. I was so angry at first that I actually HOPED we got relegated just to shut up all the 'PL at all costs' brigade. Of course my anger has subsided and I obviously don't want relegation, but not because of the money but simply I want my team playing at the highest level, nothing more. People are going to jump on posters like you and I calling us some kind of fairweather, traitor supporters but that is not the case. I write this stuff because I love the club but the manager has just, in my mind, made a gross error of judgement for which he cannot atone because it is not possible, the European chance has gone and he is largely to blame. When will we play in Europe again? Who knows? But this chance has been thrown away just because the manager and presumably the board are more interested in PL money than trying the best they can in every game.
I will continue to support the club and Dyche will still have my backing because he is a good manager, but he has gone massively down in my opinion because he has thrown away a golden opportunity to make Burnley a name in Europe again and that is unforgivable.
For all the one's who may respond in some scathing way to this or any post like it I would just say that NOTHING anyone can say or do could rid me of the anger and frustration at what has just happened.
Burnley FC came very close to losing a damn near 60 year supporter but in the end I am too loyal for that, I suppose it just goes to show the stupidity of being a football fan.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:07 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I generally agree. In 5, 10 or 15 years time, when we are back in L1 or the Champ, I suspect we will conclude the Olympiacos game was the one where the dream began to die. It’ll just take people different lengths of time to realise it. There have to be dreams, and now we know we will choose to chuck the chance, how can we dream of it again? We have had a few Premier years now, so that cannot be the dream any more. The dream has to be Cups, Europe, glory.

That’s why it was an error of monumental proportions by the club - unless of course it was done in the knowledge that the feeling of missed opportunity will be longer term and the tenure of those in charge will be short term? Surely they weren’t that cynical but I’m an optimist, and I feel strangely negative about this, so I do begin to wonder.

It can still be redeemed - just. By a grovelling apology and claiming uniquely difficult circumstances, and a promise never to do it again. That though will not come.

Another great post. The cups you speak of will never come though because our reserves are not good enough to beat Accrington Stanley or a non-league Lincoln City.Europe was a lost opportunity and Dyche (mainly) and the club (in general) are to blame. The fans have been robbed.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:07 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Don't think anyone is expecting us to improve on 7th or win cups, but surely we have to strive for something? There's more to football than aiming to finish 17th in the Prem every year and banking the T.V money. Sadly, after our pathetic efforts in the transfer market this summer and Dyche's disregard for the cup competitions I think the club are taking exactly that view.

That’s exactly what some people on this forum are calling for - improving on last year and winning cups. It’s been said on this board plenty of times in the last few weeks.

No fans are saying we are aiming to finish 17th - but funnily enough that’s what half the managers in the league say until they are safe (or the 40 points line).

But many of us are happy to finish 17th and enjoy another season in what is probably the hardest league in the world.

Every historical statistic and current financial metric suggests this will not last - so my advice is enjoy it whilst it lasts.

As for Europe what would have you done different that you think would have changed the result. We would struggle to make many more chances than we did in the second leg with whatever team we picked and we still did not win. How can that be Dyche’s fault ?

Houseboy - you are going to do yourself an injury ! Just because you say nothing is going to change your mind or opinion does not make you right.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:07 pm

I would agree with Houseboy regarding the domestic cups where the itinerary is a lot less onerous, but as far as the Europa is concern, we played the second best team in Scotland, the third best team in Turkey and the second best team in Greece and lost once, partly due to some questionable refereeing. I just don’t see that the “not taking it seriously” charge stacks up. If you want to level some criticism at the club, I would question the failure to use our European campaign as an incentive to attract a few more players during the summer that would have given us a better chance of competing on both fronts.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:09 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ZDsUGiGqM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:47 pm

CottonopolisClaret wrote:For me, our foreshortened European adventure has finally caused me to question my very allegiance to a club that I have followed home and away (and still do) for 50 years. They have been 50 years of struggle. My first year was '68. My first real memory (born of trauma no doubt) was of Swindon at home- dreams of a trip to Wembley come to nought. The first of so many shattered dreams. But would I swap the ups- and downs of these last 50 years for any other experience? Of course not. Throughout that period I, and I firmly believed until this past month, that everyone shared my belief- that one day we could by dint of fortune reclaim our position at the very pinnacle of the League. Was that just a fantasy held so long? Of course not, because Leicester City did it-they did it their way- but nontheless did it. And so when we reached 7th, I was one that was not content with that- I wanted 6th (and even 5th for one brief moment in time,) and automatic entry to Europe. I dreamed of Milan, Marseilles, Seville. Of Dyche going toe to toe with top European coaches. I dreamed of glory and told anybody who would listen that the team that went 23 undefeated, playing Saturday, Tuesday, week in week out, would not be bothered about squad size and Thursday -Sunday. I believed that we would play our strongest team and take on all comers.That the cognoscenti in Italy would talk of blocked shots and defensive heroics and 23 pass goals. Not for one moment did I think that we would give in before the challenge began. And give in for what? Just to be in the Premier League? To enjoy the illusory objects of success- the training ground, the whirlpools, the first class press facilities?
So all that has caused me to think again about who we are? What do we stand for? Are we that Club that others accuse us of? Brexiteers? Racist? Small- minded? Little Burnley. What actually is our identity? Are we forever more destined to be that club clinging on to the premier league precipice. That though is not for me. Premiership money has provided us with the opportunity to do something memorable- to mark our time in this fantasy land by doing good for the community- by reinventing the club for the future. Is it fantasy to think that we might just be different? Why can we not be the Rayo Vallecano of the Premier League? https://www.theguardian.com/football/vi ... eams-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is going down to well Cotton..is it?

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:48 pm

We stand for impatient inattentive fans, I read the first three lines and thought oh f0ck it.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:52 pm

I think the fact we were competing in a nothing competition had something to do with it. I don't think it would be the same in the champions league.

The europa league says a lot about modern football. Full of those teams that just don't quite make it like us. Leaving the money and pride to the teams with the highest paychecks.

Not only that but the champions league teams get a second chance if they drop out..

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:57 pm

TVC15 wrote:The over reaction to the Olympiakos games is laughable.

The team we put out in both legs cost considerablely more to put together than the Olympiacos team. If any of their team was good enough for the Premier League they would be playing here and trebling their wages..

Podence is surely good enough for the PL. Perhaps a cheeky bid in January, if his wages really are that low.

As for what we stand for? I'd say all that is good about a small and independant club taking on the giants; it may not last forever, but it really is some achievement

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:31 pm

scouseclaret wrote:I would agree with Houseboy regarding the domestic cups where the itinerary is a lot less onerous, but as far as the Europa is concern, we played the second best team in Scotland, the third best team in Turkey and the second best team in Greece and lost once, partly due to some questionable refereeing. I just don’t see that the “not taking it seriously” charge stacks up. If you want to level some criticism at the club, I would question the failure to use our European campaign as an incentive to attract a few more players during the summer that would have given us a better chance of competing on both fronts.

In all fairness, leaving our England international on the bench in favour of a far inferior player (no disrespect to Long intended) cannot be seen to be taking it seriously.

I know Tarky had an op in the close season but Man Utd was obviously a lesser game - the odds were strongly against us getting anything. Dyche is a pragmatist, a stats man, he knows this. He chose to sacrifice the Europa but the sacrifice started in June with his transfer approach, not last week. The Europa was never taken seriously apart from by the fans (like me, spending a grand to go to Athens on my tod to watch it) and by many of the players who did to their credit bust a gut.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:56 pm

TVC15 wrote:That’s exactly what some people on this forum are calling for - improving on last year and winning cups. It’s been said on this board plenty of times in the last few weeks.

No fans are saying we are aiming to finish 17th - but funnily enough that’s what half the managers in the league say until they are safe (or the 40 points line).

But many of us are happy to finish 17th and enjoy another season in what is probably the hardest league in the world.

When fans talk about improving they are talking about building on our success and improving the team and not literally improving our league position. 7th was an unbelievable freak season where we over performed massively and I don't think anyone thinks that we will easily repeat that. what people think is that if we stand still or go backwards we could be quickly back in the bottom 6 where improving the side could see us looking comfortable around mid table

With regards to winning the cups you are misrepresenting peoples thoughts in the same way people saying you are just happy to finish 17th is misrepresenting your view. People want us to have a real good go at the cup competitions because we have a chance of winning it or at least having a good exciting cup run but the emphasis and expectation is having a good go not actually winning.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:21 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:When fans talk about improving they are talking about building on our success and improving the team and not literally improving our league position. 7th was an unbelievable freak season where we over performed massively and I don't think anyone thinks that we will easily repeat that. what people think is that if we stand still or go backwards we could be quickly back in the bottom 6 where improving the side could see us looking comfortable around mid table

With regards to winning the cups you are misrepresenting peoples thoughts in the same way people saying you are just happy to finish 17th is misrepresenting your view. People want us to have a real good go at the cup competitions because we have a chance of winning it or at least having a good exciting cup run but the emphasis and expectation is having a good go not actually winning.

I`m not misrepresenting peoples thoughts at all. People have said in the last few weeks on this board that the clubs ambition should be to improving on last year and to be winning cups.

If yours is to give the cups a "real good go" and to improve the side / comfortably finish mid table then that's fine. I'm 100% sure that SD and his team would say that is exactly what they are doing. Unfortunately you probably have a different definition to SD about what a "real good go" means.

What Burnley have done in the cup competitions is no different to the vast majority of teams in the Premier League and also the Championship now. Was it not Burton who changed 9 players for the league cup game last week...and all the championship and Premier League teams playing last week made massive changes. You can still give it a good go without playing all of your first team - I think we more than proved that last Thursday.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:28 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Podence is surely good enough for the PL. Perhaps a cheeky bid in January, if his wages really are that low.

As for what we stand for? I'd say all that is good about a small and independant club taking on the giants; it may not last forever, but it really is some achievement

If Podence was good enough for the Premier League he would be playing here. He was a target for Forest in the summer and was out of contract so assume no Premier league clubs were interested as anyone of them would have blown Olympiakos out of the water on wages.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:32 pm

TVC15 wrote:If Podence was good enough for the Premier League he would be playing here. He was a target for Forest in the summer and was out of contract so assume no Premier league clubs were interested as anyone of them would have blown Olympiakos out of the water on wages.

He looked OK to me. Would he improve us?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:33 pm

TVC15 wrote:I`m not misrepresenting peoples thoughts at all. People have said in the last few weeks on this board that the clubs ambition should be to improving on last year and to be winning cups.

If yours is to give the cups a "real good go" and to improve the side / comfortably finish mid table then that's fine. I'm 100% sure that SD and his team would say that is exactly what they are doing. Unfortunately you probably have a different definition to SD about what a "real good go" means.

What Burnley have done in the cup competitions is no different to the vast majority of teams in the Premier League and also the Championship now. Was it not Burton who changed 9 players for the league cup game last week...and all the championship and Premier League teams playing last week made massive changes. You can still give it a good go without playing all of your first team - I think we more than proved that last Thursday.

Show me examples of fans on here saying we should improve on 7th position i.e. finish in top 6 cos that is what you stated. Also show me examples of fans saying we should be winning cups (not that it should be our ambition to win cups) or is it the ambition to win cups that is deluded and if so why?

Edit: im not complaining about our approach I just think you are talking rubbish saying multiple posters are expecting us to finish higher than 7th or actually win a cup

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:48 pm

boatshed bill wrote:He looked OK to me. Would he improve us?

Doubt it - you can't buy players on the back of playing well against us. Look at his career record and the clubs he has played for. There is a good reason why he has only played in 2 poor leagues.

Hroogar · Post by **Hroogar** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:20 pm

houseboy wrote:Absolutely top post and my sentiments entirely. Of course I'm not going to stop my support for the club who I supported as a young child in the dream days and, much like yourself, actually watched my first game at the Turf in the late 60's (Derby county - FA Cup 3rd round). But like you I have questioned myself because of the absolutely disgraceful way we treated the Europa League competition. At the risk of offending all the 'Dyche can do no wrong' club (and there are understandably thousands, of which I was one until recently) I hate managers who field weakened teams in competitions because they think that they are unimportant. There was a time when clubs were fined for it (Burnley many years ago indeed were) and it stinks. It belittles the competition, it insults your opponents and it rips off fans who pay hard earned money to watch the first team, especially in a European campaign that many of us have dreamed of for decades. And what has it achieved, we are now out of it and we are still rooted near the bottom of the money pit that is the PL. I was so angry at first that I actually HOPED we got relegated just to shut up all the 'PL at all costs' brigade. Of course my anger has subsided and I obviously don't want relegation, but not because of the money but simply I want my team playing at the highest level, nothing more. People are going to jump on posters like you and I calling us some kind of fairweather, traitor supporters but that is not the case. I write this stuff because I love the club but the manager has just, in my mind, made a gross error of judgement for which he cannot atone because it is not possible, the European chance has gone and he is largely to blame. When will we play in Europe again? Who knows? But this chance has been thrown away just because the manager and presumably the board are more interested in PL money than trying the best they can in every game.
I will continue to support the club and Dyche will still have my backing because he is a good manager, but he has gone massively down in my opinion because he has thrown away a golden opportunity to make Burnley a name in Europe again and that is unforgivable.
For all the one's who may respond in some scathing way to this or any post like it I would just say that NOTHING anyone can say or do could rid me of the anger and frustration at what has just happened.
Burnley FC came very close to losing a damn near 60 year supporter but in the end I am too loyal for that, I suppose it just goes to show the stupidity of being a football fan.

You put into words what I have been thinking since our Europa exit. A supporter since 1948, I feel MAD. I wanted to be proud of our team in Europe, but, I only felt frustration and then felt mad. What a missed opportunity, maybe we could have won with a full strength team (now we will never know). It's great to see the Clarets in the Premier League, but I have this inner feeling of huge disappointment - a fan of Dyche, but now a really disappointed fan. It gets harder as you get older!!! UTC

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:52 pm

CottonopolisClaret wrote:What about using a huge amount of the money on Equality and inclusivity? Or lowering ticket prices? Or paying staff more money? Ensuring that the people who pour your pint get more than the national minimum wage? That would be a start?

Jesus. Are you an arch bishop.se well as Welby? Don't do it and don't play Morrisey and you might be ok

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:57 pm

God why can't you muppets just go to a football match and enjoy it. This is like an Albert Camus introspective.