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Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:23 pm
by Safron
These 2 are our only remaining injured players, but I can't see what difference these 2 will improve our fortunes in the coming months,and before you say cork, I for one think brownhill is head and shoulders better??
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:26 pm
by taio
If you can't see what Mee and Cork have given us in the past it's impossible to explain to you.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:28 pm
by FactualFrank
The only difference between vs Spurs and vs Chelsea was Stephens coming in, JBG out, and Brownhill to the right. Seemed to be a pretty big difference to me. And Mee makes a huge difference with his organisation in a Tarky-Mee central defence.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm
by daveisaclaret
Put Ben Mee in for Kevin Long and either Cork or Guđmundsson in for Stephens and it's a much better side that is comfortably better than the teams we need to compete with. Simple as that.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm
by AlargeClaret
taio wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:26 pm
If you can't see what Mee and Cork have given us in the past it's impossible to explain to you.
Quite true , but whether 2 aging ( just about) past their prime players will make much difference is debatable . That said I’d like them both back . As for JBG needs his contract terminating
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:35 pm
by warksclaret
taio wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:26 pm
If you can't see what Mee and Cork have given us in the past it's impossible to explain to you.
If we were missing McNeil and Barnes you would be saying the same. However how have these two played recently
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:36 pm
by DCWat
AlargeClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm
Quite true , but whether 2 aging ( just about) past their prime players will make much difference is debatable . That said I’d like them both back . As for JBG needs his contract terminating
Harsh but I can see where you’re coming from. It’s a shame that we just can’t get him to have a good run of games.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:48 pm
by taio
warksclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:35 pm
If we were missing McNeil and Barnes you would be saying the same. However how have these two played recently
The point is I'm not judging on a few weeks. If you don't think Mee and Cork have been instrumental to our success fair enough.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:51 pm
by TVC15
AlargeClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm
Quite true , but whether 2 aging ( just about) past their prime players will make much difference is debatable . That said I’d like them both back . As for JBG needs his contract terminating
What would be the benefit of terminating JBGs contract ?
No financial benefit whatsoever as you would have to pay up every last penny of the full term of the contract.
And we would have one less player - even if it is one who is seemingly made of candy floss
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:51 pm
by Spijed
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:28 pm
The
only difference between vs Spurs and vs Chelsea was Stephens coming in, JBG out, and Brownhill to the right. Seemed to be a pretty big difference to me. And Mee makes a huge difference with his organisation in a Tarky-Mee central defence.
The front two of Spurs in Kane and Son are top class and we kept them almost quiet as JBG was able to run at their defence.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:19 pm
by Safron
Jbg is not a player I see as a major playmaker weather that be because of what SD installs in his game or not I don't know, but I can't remember anything of note when he was unplayable
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:21 pm
by BurnleyFC
JBG won’t make any difference, we’ve hardly seen him for 2 seasons.
Good player when he’s fit, but he sadly hardly ever is.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:24 pm
by Wellsy1882
taio wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:26 pm
If you can't see what Mee and Cork have given us in the past it's impossible to explain to you.
Cork wont improve us
Mee will
Not by much tho
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:27 pm
by Safron
So next up are Brighton who beat us quite comfortably last game of last season hmm
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:34 pm
by ClaretTony
Safron wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:23 pm
These 2 are our only remaining injured players, but I can't see what difference these 2 will improve our fortunes in the coming months,and before you say cork, I for one think brownhill is head and shoulders better??
Cork, who has clearly been badly missed, Bardsley, Pieters along with Mee & JBG - that makes five. So far, tonight, you've proved yourself unable to count and accused Dyche of having no idea tactically. I'd give up if I were you.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:35 pm
by Bordeauxclaret
Mee and Cork are huge players for us.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:36 pm
by ClaretTony
Safron wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:19 pm
Jbg is not a player I see as a major playmaker weather that be because of what SD installs in his game or not I don't know, but I can't remember anything of note when he was unplayable
Something else Dyche can't do - have you thought of trying to push him out so you can apply for his job?
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:37 pm
by EarbyClaret
The difference JBG makes is that we have no cover for that position so if he's not available Brownhill plays there which means Stephens plays
Hendrick was much more effective in that role and we had a fit Cork to play CM alongside Westwood so we are weaker in two positions as a result
As far as Mee is concerned aside from his considerable leadership skills he would bring right/left stability to the CB pairing - whether Tarkowski or Long were his partner
Whilst not transformative at least we would have balance - which would be a start
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:37 pm
by ClaretTony
Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:35 pm
Mee and Cork are huge players for us.
Mee - there for all to see, massive influence on the team and it is no surprise that Tarky doesn't look anything like the player without him. How well have Keano & Tarky done playing alongside him?
Cork - two wins since he went out injured, that's two wins in 12 games and one of those against a team down to nine men and bottom of the league and already relegated. He's a massive miss.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:38 pm
by Steve-Harpers-perm
Mee obviously huge miss as captain but as above Cork the huge miss in the middle of the park.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:39 pm
by Im_not_Robbie_Blake
Ben, Jack and Johann are three of our best players and, if everyone was fit, I would hope to see them start every game. I really can't understand anyone disagreeing with that.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:56 pm
by jurek
Mee and Cork were huge players for us and let's hope
they continue to be when they come back. Mee will hopefully be back
soonish (in the next two weeks) whilst Cork may well be a month away.
We've two games coming up where we will hope to get a few points on the board
(Brighton away and Palace at home) but our next six after those look decidedly difficult
- City, Arsenal, Villa and Leeds away with Everton and Wolves at home.
We'll be lucky to get many points from those six.
So whatever we manage against Brighton and Palace will be crucial
but unfortunately I can't see us not being in the bottom three come end of the year.
Hopefully by then the take over will have been sorted - one way or the other.
And then we'll be hoping we're injury free and/or we can bring in one or two in January.
And produce a run of games and wins (as we have done in past seasons) and hope
that we're not too far behind.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:05 pm
by HuncoatClaret
Safron wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:23 pm
These 2 are our only remaining injured players, but I can't see what difference these 2 will improve our fortunes in the coming months,and before you say cork, I for one think brownhill is head and shoulders better??
I personally think Jack Cork has been a massive loss. Brownhill is doing OK, but still doesn't have an assist or a league goal to his name for us. Saying that, I'd have them both in before Westwood who had another poor game behind our back 4.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:00 pm
by Safron
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:34 pm
Cork, who has clearly been badly missed, Bardsley, Pieters along with Mee & JBG - that makes five. So far, tonight, you've proved yourself unable to count and accused Dyche of having no idea tactically. I'd give up if I were you.
This forum is for debate, and not insults, I have posted a debate about TWO players making a difference not five, and yes I can count, and for clarity you say pieters, is that you say he is our best left back or right winger??
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:01 pm
by ClaretTony
Safron wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:00 pm
This forum is for debate, and not insults, I have posted a debate about TWO players making a difference not five, and yes I can count, and for clarity you say pieters, is that you say he is our best left back or right winger??
Then can I suggest you cease making insulting comments about our manager.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:05 pm
by ClaretAL
I would just like to put a shout in that Brady did well when he came on the right, and i think Brownhill is better than Cork central, so until January put Brady right and Brownhill permanently central. I do understand the free role to Dwight but when he gets to the right hand side he always go backwards due to he predominantly being left footed, and there does not seem to be any movement for the rest of the team when he leaves that gap on the left to do the free roaming bit?
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:09 pm
by Safron
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:01 pm
Then can I suggest you cease making insulting comments about our manager.
What that he has no tactical idea, now that's another debate
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:15 pm
by ClaretAL
Safron wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:09 pm
What that he has no tactical idea, now that's another debate
are you for real? I think you need to go sit in a dark corner and give your head a wobble, before you get yourself any deeper than you are mate.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:25 pm
by ClaretTony
Safron wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:09 pm
What that he has no tactical idea, now that's another debate
It’s not a debate at all. What is fast becoming a debate is the garbage you are posting.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:35 pm
by dougcollins
Brownhill shouldn't be moved.
If Stephens has to be stuck out on the right, so be it.
If putting in Stephens lessens Brownhills game it is counter productive.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:37 pm
by Steddyman
Safron wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:23 pm
These 2 are our only remaining injured players, but I can't see what difference these 2 will improve our fortunes in the coming months,and before you say cork, I for one think brownhill is head and shoulders better??
Brownhill is quick, but he places a lot of stray passes. I'd prefer Cork back.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:38 pm
by ClaretTony
dougcollins wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:35 pm
Brownhill shouldn't be moved.
If Stephens has to be stuck out on the right, so be it.
If putting in Stephens lessens Brownhills game it is counter productive.
Not suggesting Brownhill’s best position is on the right but he played well there last season when we had Westwood & Cork in the centre.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:39 pm
by dougcollins
Steddyman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:37 pm
Brownhill is quick, but he places a lot of stray passes. I'd prefer Cork back.
Better with both.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:40 pm
by Steve-Harpers-perm
ClaretAL wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:05 pm
I would just like to put a shout in that Brady did well when he came on the right, and i think Brownhill is better than Cork central, so until January put Brady right and Brownhill permanently central. I do understand the free role to Dwight but when he gets to the right hand side he always go backwards due to he predominantly being left footed, and there does not seem to be any movement for the rest of the team when he leaves that gap on the left to do the free roaming bit?
Look at our record when Cork hasn’t played! What exactly has Brady contributed? He along with JBG are the ones who need shipping out and upgrading in January not that will happen.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:54 pm
by warksclaret
For me our best football in recent years has coincided with the arrival of Dwight McNeil, where he pressed more, hugged the left touchline, took his man on and quickly whipped low crosses into the box, with Wood in particular revelling in his great quick deliveries.I dont find him effective when he comes into midfield and starts stroking the ball left or right (like the England team have been doing for years). I am surprised if the coaches persevere in him drifting in to central. Without service Barnes & Wood are fairly ineffective and we have seen teams in the last four or five games mark these two strikers out the game with the way they set up.. Brownhill is now giving us much needed physicality in midfield. He can defend, challenge aerially and break up play. I cannot see Cork displacing him. Hopefully JBG will be back soon-don't we have a right sided coming through the U-23's. Short term until JBG is fit I would play Jay Rod there. He is right footed, has good work rate, and to be honest he is too good to leave out of the present team. As for Ben he will be a welcomed return. Apart from his reading of the game we really miss him at set pieces
A couple of things I have noticed this season. Our corner delivery has deteriorated, as have our long range free kick crossing accuracy. Our direct free kicks from just outside the box are dreadful. We win enough free kicks near the penalty area to warrant a good dead ball shooter. In that sense Harry Wilson would have been a good asset. Corners and dead ball free kicks are surely things for the training ground
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:04 pm
by Bin Ont Turf
They improve us as a team, not massively, but small margins and all that.
Cork is steady on the ball and nearly always gets the right side when we are out of/lose possession.
Mee improves the defence, and while it's not a slant on Long, I don't think we would have shipped as many goals so far had Mee been fit. He also compliments Tarky, who can start in his favoured and better position.
Neither of them can score many goals though, so the lads who have been playing need to sort it, and quickly.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:16 pm
by Taffy on the wing
Spijed wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:51 pm
The front two of Spurs in Kane and Son are top class and we kept them almost quiet as JBG was able to run at their defence.
We're MUCH better when he plays.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:53 pm
by dsr
AlargeClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm
Quite true , but whether 2 aging ( just about) past their prime players will make much difference is debatable . That said I’d like them both back . As for JBG needs his contract terminating
For one thing, all players are ageing, but assuming you don't mean literally I would suggest that Mee is ageing less than most. 31 is by no means over the hill for a centre half who doesn't build his game round pace. And I'm astonished that anyone thinks there is much debate about whether Mee will improve the side when he replaces Long. (Who is not even a year younger, incidentally.)
Even if you don't rate Mee's positional play, leadership skills, tackling and blocking ability - and I assume you don't if you think Long is pretty much as good - look at how many corners we scored from when Mee won the first header. We'll score more goals with him in the side.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:18 pm
by tiger76
dsr wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:53 pm
For one thing, all players are ageing, but assuming you don't mean literally I would suggest that Mee is ageing less than most. 31 is by no means over the hill for a centre half who doesn't build his game round pace. And I'm astonished that anyone thinks there is much debate about whether Mee will improve the side when he replaces Long. (Who is not even a year younger, incidentally.)
Even if you don't rate Mee's positional play, leadership skills, tackling and blocking ability - and I assume you don't if you think Long is pretty much as good - look at how many corners we scored from when Mee won the first header. We'll score more goals with him in the side.
Ben Mee's return will improve us in many ways, not least his captaincy on the field, and obviously has partnership with Tarky.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:48 pm
by Funkydrummer
warksclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:54 pm
For me our best football in recent years has coincided with the arrival of Dwight McNeil, where he pressed more, hugged the left touchline, took his man on and quickly whipped low crosses into the box, with Wood in particular revelling in his great quick deliveries.I dont find him effective when he comes into midfield and starts stroking the ball left or right (like the England team have been doing for years). I am surprised if the coaches persevere in him drifting in to central. Without service Barnes & Wood are fairly ineffective and we have seen teams in the last four or five games mark these two strikers out the game with the way they set up.. Brownhill is now giving us much needed physicality in midfield. He can defend, challenge aerially and break up play. I cannot see Cork displacing him. Hopefully JBG will be back soon-don't we have a right sided coming through the U-23's. Short term until JBG is fit I would play Jay Rod there. He is right footed, has good work rate, and to be honest he is too good to leave out of the present team. As for Ben he will be a welcomed return. Apart from his reading of the game we really miss him at set pieces
A couple of things I have noticed this season. Our corner delivery has deteriorated, as have our long range free kick crossing accuracy. Our direct free kicks from just outside the box are dreadful. We win enough free kicks near the penalty area to warrant a good dead ball shooter. In that sense Harry Wilson would have been a good asset. Corners and dead ball free kicks are surely things for the training ground
I think you can include not being exactly brilliant at throwins either.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:25 pm
by Blackburn_Claret
Cork in for Brownhill, the sooner the better. I think we only bought Brownhill as we looked likely to be relegated. He's been poor for us. Not Prem quality.
Pope
Long Tarks Mee
Bardlsey Taylor
McNiel Cork Westy
JRod Vydra
Dyche is a bit clueless when it comes to tactical changes though. Hopefully new investment will bring new management.
Enough is enough.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:39 pm
by mybloodisclaret
Anyone know when Cork and Mee are due back?
I know Mee played for the youngesters this week so won't be far off, but Cork?
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:47 pm
by jrgbfc
mybloodisclaret wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:39 pm
Anyone know when Cork and Mee are due back?
I know Mee played for the youngesters this week so won't be far off, but Cork?
Cork isn't training yet. Don't think he'll be back anytime soon.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:30 pm
by mybloodisclaret
jrgbfc wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:47 pm
Cork isn't training yet. Don't think he'll be back anytime soon.
Thanks. Thought not.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:25 am
by alwaysaclaret
Jack Cork had a horse running at the Cheltenham festival, he was in attendance, was post surgery apparently because it had been reported in the press at that time, he didn't to be using a walking aid of any sort, or wearing a protective boot of any sort, we're at least 7 months on and dyche continues to tell us he's longer term and still seems quite some way off, it seems whenever any of our players get injured it's always longer term regardless of what the injury is, the favourite saying is touch and go, does anyone know the reason for this, serious question, because imo at any other club cork would be back in the side. Likewise with Barnes how long was he out with an hernia, it's quite a simple operation nowadays and doable to be back playing in 4 to 6 weeks ?
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:43 am
by dsr
alwaysaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:25 am
Jack Cork had a horse running at the Cheltenham festival, he was in attendance, was post surgery apparently because it had been reported in the press at that time, he didn't to be using a walking aid of any sort, or wearing a protective boot of any sort, we're at least 7 months on and dyche continues to tell us he's longer term and still seems quite some way off, it seems whenever any of our players get injured it's always longer term regardless of what the injury is, the favourite saying is touch and go, does anyone know the reason for this, serious question, because imo at any other club cork would be back in the side. Likewise with Barnes how long was he out with an hernia, it's quite a simple operation nowadays and doable to be back playing in 4 to 6 weeks ?
Cork was injured on 29th June against Crystal Palace and had the operation shortly after that. I think you might be confusing two different injuries.
https://www.uptheclarets.com/jack-cork-has-operation
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:14 pm
by alwaysaclaret
Maybe I'll do some research, but perhaps you get my point in general regarding other injured players, ie mee and jbg, really grates me when dyche comments their touch and go when most of the time he knows full well they won't play for another month at least.
Re: Ben mee and jbg
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:07 pm
by Rileybobs
alwaysaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:14 pm
Maybe I'll do some research, but perhaps you get my point in general regarding other injured players, ie mee and jbg, really grates me when dyche comments their touch and go when most of the time he knows full well they won't play for another month at least.
When was the last time he said a player was touch and go who wasn’t though? Seems to be a long running joke about Dyche but I haven’t heard it for a while. He usually states whether a player is back training on the grass or whether he’s rejoined team training sessions. At which point we know that they’re an U23 game or two away from being available for selection.