ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
I like this fella and he has no fear of Bellend Rd. He reffed their game against Sheff U that Sheff U won to send Leeds into freefall, back end of the 18-19 season.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Why do Burnley always seem to get Jon Moss.
My title for an interesting article from the Athletic today.
It is usually 4pm on a Monday when the email arrives. Each week, the notification tends to come through at the same time, informing the referees which match they will be covering the next weekend. And the people in charge of this process have realised over time that it is impossible to keep everybody happy.
Nuno Espirito Santo, for one, judging by his withering assessment of Lee Mason’s competence last Monday and, in what felt like a direct plea from the Wolverhampton Wanderers head coach, his verdict that, “I just don’t want to see him anymore.”
The refereeing authorities took one call recently from Steve Cooper, manager of Swansea City, to object to Andy Woolmer’s appointment for their Championship game against Sheffield Wednesday on November 25.
Cooper did not trust the Northamptonshire official – and wanted to put it on record that he was not happy about the former postman being in charge of his team.
A few days later, Woolmer disallowed what looked like a legitimate winner for Swansea in stoppage time. “One thing for sure, whatever the decision was, it was not going to us,” Cooper said. “It’s personal, unfortunately. It was a performance I predicted from the official and one that I spoke to the governing body about a few days ago. My prediction was right.”
Note the key word there: personal. A manager cannot make that kind of allegation without risking punishment. Cooper had gone too far with his criticisms and was fined £3,500 for questioning the integrity of a match official.
No doubt, though, there are a lot of other people in football who do not want to be persuaded that the system is fair. Managers, players and, of course, supporters. Ever wondered why one of your least favourite referees is covering your team? Or how the authorities choose which referees cover which matches?
What you might not realise is the level of planning that goes into the selection process and the complex system that has been in place by the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL), the organisation led by referees’ chief Mike Riley, to start making appointments six weeks in advance.
It involves Riley and his colleagues keeping a league table – or “merit table,” as they call it – to identify the officials who can be trusted, and those who perhaps cannot, for the top-of-the-table clashes, the big derby matches or the relegation six-pointers.
That table – which is kept top-secret by PGMOL bosses – is based on an elaborate points system that takes into account every single decision a referee ever makes.
The referees have password access to see where they rank in the table after every round of fixtures. It is the same for assistant referees, too. They know whether they have gone up or down a few places. They are acutely aware of whether they are challenging for the top or languishing near the bottom. And there is even an appeals process – again, with an emphasis on confidentiality – if they disagree with how any decision has been marked.
It is, in short, a lot more complicated than perhaps you might imagine.
Howard Webb has never forgotten the build-up of tension waiting to find out where he was going next.
Sometimes it would be delayed until Tuesday lunchtime if there was a Monday night fixture. Usually, though, it was the same slot – Monday, 4pm – every week.
Webb recalls in his autobiography the fierce competition that existed between the referees in the Premier League’s Select Group. Too fierce, at times, bearing in mind the team-building expedition to the Lake District when Graham Poll and Mark Halsey squared up to one another. Or the personality clashes between the “Red Wine Club” – namely Poll and a group of largely southern-based colleagues – and another faction led by Jeff Winter, Halsey and various others.
“I’d be restless and agitated for most of the day,” Webb says of the Monday routine. “Within each round of games, there would inevitably be one fixture I fancied and one I dreaded. Once I heard the message ping, I’d anxiously scroll down the attachment, my subsequent shout of ‘Yes!’, ‘No!’ or ‘****!’ being an indication of how happy, cross or uneasy I felt about my allocated game.”
Today’s match officials are the same. “You know what time they are coming out,” assistant referee Sian Massey-Ellis told the Outside The Box podcast recently. “You’ve literally got your phone out. ‘Where am I? Where am I?’ It’s excitement every week.”
Webb refereed the 2010 World Cup final but knew when the PGMOL had lost trust in him because he stopped being awarded the matches for which he was once the first-choice pick. His last fixture was Hull City vs Everton in May 2014. It was the fourth time he had covered Hull since the turn of the year and, in that time, he had refereed only two Premier League games featuring teams who finished in the top four. Monday, 4pm, had become a personal ordeal.
The clubs are informed at the same time as the referees and if you are wondering why Michael Oliver is now one of the go-to choices for the big assignments – the latest being Arsenal vs Chelsea yesterday – it is because he is one of the consistent pace-setters in the merit table.
Anthony Taylor, we can also assume, must be scoring high marks, bearing in mind he will referee Chelsea’s match against Manchester City next Sunday (the festive schedule is always decided early).
But then there are the referees who are not yet deemed ready for the big matches – or the ones who have been around a long time but always tend to be overlooked for the top games.
How does Stuart Attwell (below) feel after two spells, incorporating 11 seasons, as a whistle-blower in the Premier League that he has never been assigned a Merseyside, Manchester or north London derby
Mason has been on the Select Group even longer, since 2006, which immediately tells us that the PGMOL does not agree with Nuno’s assessment of the Bolton-based referee. It is true, however, that Mason tends to be assigned matches – Burnley versus Wolves, for example – that indicate he is not particularly near the top of the merit table.
As for the other Premier League referee who has been in the news this week, what does it say for Graham Scott that he was set to be demoted from the Select Group at the end of the 2016-17 season? Scott fought the decision, won an appeal and took charge of Newcastle United’s 1-1 draw against Fulham last Saturday. He was the referee, in other words, who awarded Newcastle a penalty after an alleged dive from Callum Wilson and, to make matters worse for Fulham, sent off their defender Joachim Andersen in the process. The red card was overturned on appeal and what a shame, Fulham’s supporters might say, that there is no way to find out how the PGMOL assessed Scott’s performance at St James’ Park.
Those assessments take place in two stages. First, a match delegate – a former player or manager – will put together a report on the referee’s performance.
The more technical process, however, takes place afterwards when the PGMOL’s evaluators receive the match footage and go through every decision. And here’s the thing: this does not just take in the incidents where the referee penalises someone, but every single time a decision is taken about whether or not to blow their whistle.
That is a lengthy process, bearing in mind a top-flight referee will typically make around 250 of those decisions per match. For assistant referees, it is usually 50 to 100. Points are awarded, or deducted, for each one and the tariff is based on three categories – whether it was “easy”, “difficult” or “non-routine” – as well as taking into account where each incident occurred on the pitch. More points are awarded for a correct free kick decision just outside the penalty area (ie, a scoring chance) than one on the halfway line. If it is a particularly difficult decision, there are higher marks. Alternatively, extra points are wiped off for a mistake that directly influences the game.
But then it gets even more complicated. Within 24 hours, the referees receive the full evaluation and can appeal if they think any decision has been marked unfairly. Even if it is an ultimately meaningless free kick, it can go to a specially convened three-person panel to decide through an online process whether points should be added or taken away. That decision is final.
It all goes towards the merit table. And even then, there are plenty of other considerations for the PGMOL to take into account before the in-form referees can be assigned the plum appointments.
Perhaps you can remember the fuss four years ago when Anthony Taylor was assigned the first Liverpool-Manchester United match (below) of his refereeing career.
Taylor was brought up in Wythenshawe, which is on the southern edge of Manchester, and Keith Hackett, formerly the PGMOL chief, described it as “grossly unfair” to award him such a match.
Riley maintained it was the right appointment and Liverpool took the view that, just because Taylor lived closer to Old Trafford than any of Sir Alex Ferguson, Ed Woodward or Wayne Rooney, it did not necessarily mean he was a secret United fan who would award all the key decisions in their favour.
Taylor describes himself as a fan of non-League Altrincham and that now seems to be generally accepted, judging by the lack of attention to his Mancunian roots when he refereed Leeds United’s 6-2 defeat at Old Trafford last weekend.
Nor did it seem to matter that the referee for the Manchester derby two weeks ago also grew up with 0161 as his phone area code.
Chris Kavanagh was raised in Ashton-under-Lyne, another suburb of Manchester, but has assured his bosses that he, like Taylor, is not a supporter of United or City. Kavanagh calls himself a fan of Droylsden, and there are plenty of people at that non-League club who can verify his attendance at matches, going back to when he was a boy and his grandfather used to take him there.
Michael Oliver, on the other hand, is not allowed to referee Newcastle United, because they are the team he supports. Nor will you ever see him taking charge of a Sunderland game. “Just imagine the reaction if a Geordie awarded a debatable last-minute penalty against Sunderland,” says one leading official.
This is why every referee has to declare where they live, who they support and any other relevant details for the appointments panel – made up of Riley, ex-linesman Adam Gale-Watts and former referees Alan Wiley, Mike Jones and Neale Barry – to factor into the selection process.
Interestingly, one Premier League manager has told the authorities he trusts the PGMOL’s referees so much he would have no issue if his team played at Newcastle and Oliver was in charge. But it will never happen, just as Mark Clattenburg, another Newcastle fan, was never allowed to officiate at St James’ Park.
Jon Moss, a Sunderland fan, is kept off Newcastle matches for the same reason. Moss is allowed to referee Liverpool, however, even though he was once James Milner’s primary school PE teacher. A line has to be drawn somewhere and Moss could hardly be accused of favouritism, given that he sent Milner off in a Liverpool vs Crystal Palace game two seasons ago.
Within the PGMOL, it has been noted that there are countless examples of referees from London taking charge of matches in the capital without it being deemed a big issue.
At other times, unexpected issues crop up.
When Leicester City and Tottenham Hotspur were competing for the title towards the end of the 2015-16 season, Kevin Friend was removed from a Spurs match to spare him from potential allegations of bias. Friend was affiliated to the Leicestershire And Rutland FA, lived near Leicester and would sometimes watch games at their King Power Stadium. He is actually a Bristol City fan, having been born there, but it was still deemed too sensitive for him to referee Leicester’s direct rivals in the title race.
The nature of the business throws up other issues. Referees can pick up injuries. COVID-19 has caused numerous problems. Nor does it make it any easier that UEFA sometimes appoint referees for European assignments with only a few days’ notice. A referee who has jetted off to some far-flung place for a Thursday-night Europa League tie, often with no direct flights back to the UK, cannot be expected to officiate a Saturday 12.30pm kick-off in the Premier League.
All of which helps to explain why the PGMOL’s planning meetings, looking six weeks ahead, can last upwards of three hours. Then there are follow-up meetings every Monday to go over what has happened at the weekend and, if necessary, make last-minute changes.
David Coote, for instance, was the VAR who decided Jordan Pickford’s challenge on Virgil van Dijk (below) during the Merseyside derby in October did not warrant a red-card check. Coote has already been removed from one Liverpool match and, with so much sensitivity about that incident, it might be a while before he is appointed to referee a game at Anfield.
Riley has to make decisions on a human level, too, when the referees are working in a highly competitive environment – and that rivalry is not discouraged by the PGMOL.
The referees who are relatively new to the Select Group are encouraged to believe they can eventually land the biggest matches. Andy Madley, for example, is regarded as one who can reach that level.
Riley will sometimes give a referee a weekend off if there has been a lot of media criticism. At other times, he will deliberately give an under-fire referee another match straight away, depending on what he thinks is best for the individual. And in exceptional circumstances, there have to be tough decisions based on a common-sense approach.
Clattenburg went six years without being selected for a game at Goodison Park because of the fallout from a Merseyside derby in 2007 in which he sent off two Everton players and made several other calls in Liverpool’s favour.
The same official was also kept off matches at Chelsea for six months after Mikel John Obi accused him, falsely, of making racist remarks during a game against Manchester United at Stamford Bridge in 2012. Clattenburg had done nothing wrong but the PGMOL took the view that it might be better for everybody if there was a cooling-off period.
Moss knows about this, too. He went 20 months without a game at Leicester after they complained about his performance, featuring a red card to Jamie Vardy for diving, during a 2-2 draw with West Ham in their title-winning season. And never under-estimate the power of Sir Alex Ferguson’s voice during his many years as a fervent student of refereeing demonology. Martin Atkinson, one of the Premier League’s highest-ranked officials, had one eight-month spell without a game at Old Trafford, and another lasting a year, after various controversies involving Ferguson’s teams.
Riley and his colleagues are currently looking at February’s rota and that is a long, detailed process when it does not just involve selecting every Premier League referee, assistant referee, fourth official, VAR and assistant VAR – if possible, the authorities like to keep the same teams of referees and assistant referees together – but also making appointments for every EFL, National League and Premier League 2 (under-23s) fixture.
The same organisation also looks after the Carabao Cup, as well as helping with FA Cup selections, and the general rule is that the same officials should not referee the same teams within at least three weeks. It is a rolling process. And it all comes back to Monday, 4pm.
“Refereeing is a very cut-throat business,” Jeff Winter once said. “A player can play in a cup final on the left or right of midfield. There’s only one position for a referee.”
My title for an interesting article from the Athletic today.
It is usually 4pm on a Monday when the email arrives. Each week, the notification tends to come through at the same time, informing the referees which match they will be covering the next weekend. And the people in charge of this process have realised over time that it is impossible to keep everybody happy.
Nuno Espirito Santo, for one, judging by his withering assessment of Lee Mason’s competence last Monday and, in what felt like a direct plea from the Wolverhampton Wanderers head coach, his verdict that, “I just don’t want to see him anymore.”
The refereeing authorities took one call recently from Steve Cooper, manager of Swansea City, to object to Andy Woolmer’s appointment for their Championship game against Sheffield Wednesday on November 25.
Cooper did not trust the Northamptonshire official – and wanted to put it on record that he was not happy about the former postman being in charge of his team.
A few days later, Woolmer disallowed what looked like a legitimate winner for Swansea in stoppage time. “One thing for sure, whatever the decision was, it was not going to us,” Cooper said. “It’s personal, unfortunately. It was a performance I predicted from the official and one that I spoke to the governing body about a few days ago. My prediction was right.”
Note the key word there: personal. A manager cannot make that kind of allegation without risking punishment. Cooper had gone too far with his criticisms and was fined £3,500 for questioning the integrity of a match official.
No doubt, though, there are a lot of other people in football who do not want to be persuaded that the system is fair. Managers, players and, of course, supporters. Ever wondered why one of your least favourite referees is covering your team? Or how the authorities choose which referees cover which matches?
What you might not realise is the level of planning that goes into the selection process and the complex system that has been in place by the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL), the organisation led by referees’ chief Mike Riley, to start making appointments six weeks in advance.
It involves Riley and his colleagues keeping a league table – or “merit table,” as they call it – to identify the officials who can be trusted, and those who perhaps cannot, for the top-of-the-table clashes, the big derby matches or the relegation six-pointers.
That table – which is kept top-secret by PGMOL bosses – is based on an elaborate points system that takes into account every single decision a referee ever makes.
The referees have password access to see where they rank in the table after every round of fixtures. It is the same for assistant referees, too. They know whether they have gone up or down a few places. They are acutely aware of whether they are challenging for the top or languishing near the bottom. And there is even an appeals process – again, with an emphasis on confidentiality – if they disagree with how any decision has been marked.
It is, in short, a lot more complicated than perhaps you might imagine.
Howard Webb has never forgotten the build-up of tension waiting to find out where he was going next.
Sometimes it would be delayed until Tuesday lunchtime if there was a Monday night fixture. Usually, though, it was the same slot – Monday, 4pm – every week.
Webb recalls in his autobiography the fierce competition that existed between the referees in the Premier League’s Select Group. Too fierce, at times, bearing in mind the team-building expedition to the Lake District when Graham Poll and Mark Halsey squared up to one another. Or the personality clashes between the “Red Wine Club” – namely Poll and a group of largely southern-based colleagues – and another faction led by Jeff Winter, Halsey and various others.
“I’d be restless and agitated for most of the day,” Webb says of the Monday routine. “Within each round of games, there would inevitably be one fixture I fancied and one I dreaded. Once I heard the message ping, I’d anxiously scroll down the attachment, my subsequent shout of ‘Yes!’, ‘No!’ or ‘****!’ being an indication of how happy, cross or uneasy I felt about my allocated game.”
Today’s match officials are the same. “You know what time they are coming out,” assistant referee Sian Massey-Ellis told the Outside The Box podcast recently. “You’ve literally got your phone out. ‘Where am I? Where am I?’ It’s excitement every week.”
Webb refereed the 2010 World Cup final but knew when the PGMOL had lost trust in him because he stopped being awarded the matches for which he was once the first-choice pick. His last fixture was Hull City vs Everton in May 2014. It was the fourth time he had covered Hull since the turn of the year and, in that time, he had refereed only two Premier League games featuring teams who finished in the top four. Monday, 4pm, had become a personal ordeal.
The clubs are informed at the same time as the referees and if you are wondering why Michael Oliver is now one of the go-to choices for the big assignments – the latest being Arsenal vs Chelsea yesterday – it is because he is one of the consistent pace-setters in the merit table.
Anthony Taylor, we can also assume, must be scoring high marks, bearing in mind he will referee Chelsea’s match against Manchester City next Sunday (the festive schedule is always decided early).
But then there are the referees who are not yet deemed ready for the big matches – or the ones who have been around a long time but always tend to be overlooked for the top games.
How does Stuart Attwell (below) feel after two spells, incorporating 11 seasons, as a whistle-blower in the Premier League that he has never been assigned a Merseyside, Manchester or north London derby
Mason has been on the Select Group even longer, since 2006, which immediately tells us that the PGMOL does not agree with Nuno’s assessment of the Bolton-based referee. It is true, however, that Mason tends to be assigned matches – Burnley versus Wolves, for example – that indicate he is not particularly near the top of the merit table.
As for the other Premier League referee who has been in the news this week, what does it say for Graham Scott that he was set to be demoted from the Select Group at the end of the 2016-17 season? Scott fought the decision, won an appeal and took charge of Newcastle United’s 1-1 draw against Fulham last Saturday. He was the referee, in other words, who awarded Newcastle a penalty after an alleged dive from Callum Wilson and, to make matters worse for Fulham, sent off their defender Joachim Andersen in the process. The red card was overturned on appeal and what a shame, Fulham’s supporters might say, that there is no way to find out how the PGMOL assessed Scott’s performance at St James’ Park.
Those assessments take place in two stages. First, a match delegate – a former player or manager – will put together a report on the referee’s performance.
The more technical process, however, takes place afterwards when the PGMOL’s evaluators receive the match footage and go through every decision. And here’s the thing: this does not just take in the incidents where the referee penalises someone, but every single time a decision is taken about whether or not to blow their whistle.
That is a lengthy process, bearing in mind a top-flight referee will typically make around 250 of those decisions per match. For assistant referees, it is usually 50 to 100. Points are awarded, or deducted, for each one and the tariff is based on three categories – whether it was “easy”, “difficult” or “non-routine” – as well as taking into account where each incident occurred on the pitch. More points are awarded for a correct free kick decision just outside the penalty area (ie, a scoring chance) than one on the halfway line. If it is a particularly difficult decision, there are higher marks. Alternatively, extra points are wiped off for a mistake that directly influences the game.
But then it gets even more complicated. Within 24 hours, the referees receive the full evaluation and can appeal if they think any decision has been marked unfairly. Even if it is an ultimately meaningless free kick, it can go to a specially convened three-person panel to decide through an online process whether points should be added or taken away. That decision is final.
It all goes towards the merit table. And even then, there are plenty of other considerations for the PGMOL to take into account before the in-form referees can be assigned the plum appointments.
Perhaps you can remember the fuss four years ago when Anthony Taylor was assigned the first Liverpool-Manchester United match (below) of his refereeing career.
Taylor was brought up in Wythenshawe, which is on the southern edge of Manchester, and Keith Hackett, formerly the PGMOL chief, described it as “grossly unfair” to award him such a match.
Riley maintained it was the right appointment and Liverpool took the view that, just because Taylor lived closer to Old Trafford than any of Sir Alex Ferguson, Ed Woodward or Wayne Rooney, it did not necessarily mean he was a secret United fan who would award all the key decisions in their favour.
Taylor describes himself as a fan of non-League Altrincham and that now seems to be generally accepted, judging by the lack of attention to his Mancunian roots when he refereed Leeds United’s 6-2 defeat at Old Trafford last weekend.
Nor did it seem to matter that the referee for the Manchester derby two weeks ago also grew up with 0161 as his phone area code.
Chris Kavanagh was raised in Ashton-under-Lyne, another suburb of Manchester, but has assured his bosses that he, like Taylor, is not a supporter of United or City. Kavanagh calls himself a fan of Droylsden, and there are plenty of people at that non-League club who can verify his attendance at matches, going back to when he was a boy and his grandfather used to take him there.
Michael Oliver, on the other hand, is not allowed to referee Newcastle United, because they are the team he supports. Nor will you ever see him taking charge of a Sunderland game. “Just imagine the reaction if a Geordie awarded a debatable last-minute penalty against Sunderland,” says one leading official.
This is why every referee has to declare where they live, who they support and any other relevant details for the appointments panel – made up of Riley, ex-linesman Adam Gale-Watts and former referees Alan Wiley, Mike Jones and Neale Barry – to factor into the selection process.
Interestingly, one Premier League manager has told the authorities he trusts the PGMOL’s referees so much he would have no issue if his team played at Newcastle and Oliver was in charge. But it will never happen, just as Mark Clattenburg, another Newcastle fan, was never allowed to officiate at St James’ Park.
Jon Moss, a Sunderland fan, is kept off Newcastle matches for the same reason. Moss is allowed to referee Liverpool, however, even though he was once James Milner’s primary school PE teacher. A line has to be drawn somewhere and Moss could hardly be accused of favouritism, given that he sent Milner off in a Liverpool vs Crystal Palace game two seasons ago.
Within the PGMOL, it has been noted that there are countless examples of referees from London taking charge of matches in the capital without it being deemed a big issue.
At other times, unexpected issues crop up.
When Leicester City and Tottenham Hotspur were competing for the title towards the end of the 2015-16 season, Kevin Friend was removed from a Spurs match to spare him from potential allegations of bias. Friend was affiliated to the Leicestershire And Rutland FA, lived near Leicester and would sometimes watch games at their King Power Stadium. He is actually a Bristol City fan, having been born there, but it was still deemed too sensitive for him to referee Leicester’s direct rivals in the title race.
The nature of the business throws up other issues. Referees can pick up injuries. COVID-19 has caused numerous problems. Nor does it make it any easier that UEFA sometimes appoint referees for European assignments with only a few days’ notice. A referee who has jetted off to some far-flung place for a Thursday-night Europa League tie, often with no direct flights back to the UK, cannot be expected to officiate a Saturday 12.30pm kick-off in the Premier League.
All of which helps to explain why the PGMOL’s planning meetings, looking six weeks ahead, can last upwards of three hours. Then there are follow-up meetings every Monday to go over what has happened at the weekend and, if necessary, make last-minute changes.
David Coote, for instance, was the VAR who decided Jordan Pickford’s challenge on Virgil van Dijk (below) during the Merseyside derby in October did not warrant a red-card check. Coote has already been removed from one Liverpool match and, with so much sensitivity about that incident, it might be a while before he is appointed to referee a game at Anfield.
Riley has to make decisions on a human level, too, when the referees are working in a highly competitive environment – and that rivalry is not discouraged by the PGMOL.
The referees who are relatively new to the Select Group are encouraged to believe they can eventually land the biggest matches. Andy Madley, for example, is regarded as one who can reach that level.
Riley will sometimes give a referee a weekend off if there has been a lot of media criticism. At other times, he will deliberately give an under-fire referee another match straight away, depending on what he thinks is best for the individual. And in exceptional circumstances, there have to be tough decisions based on a common-sense approach.
Clattenburg went six years without being selected for a game at Goodison Park because of the fallout from a Merseyside derby in 2007 in which he sent off two Everton players and made several other calls in Liverpool’s favour.
The same official was also kept off matches at Chelsea for six months after Mikel John Obi accused him, falsely, of making racist remarks during a game against Manchester United at Stamford Bridge in 2012. Clattenburg had done nothing wrong but the PGMOL took the view that it might be better for everybody if there was a cooling-off period.
Moss knows about this, too. He went 20 months without a game at Leicester after they complained about his performance, featuring a red card to Jamie Vardy for diving, during a 2-2 draw with West Ham in their title-winning season. And never under-estimate the power of Sir Alex Ferguson’s voice during his many years as a fervent student of refereeing demonology. Martin Atkinson, one of the Premier League’s highest-ranked officials, had one eight-month spell without a game at Old Trafford, and another lasting a year, after various controversies involving Ferguson’s teams.
Riley and his colleagues are currently looking at February’s rota and that is a long, detailed process when it does not just involve selecting every Premier League referee, assistant referee, fourth official, VAR and assistant VAR – if possible, the authorities like to keep the same teams of referees and assistant referees together – but also making appointments for every EFL, National League and Premier League 2 (under-23s) fixture.
The same organisation also looks after the Carabao Cup, as well as helping with FA Cup selections, and the general rule is that the same officials should not referee the same teams within at least three weeks. It is a rolling process. And it all comes back to Monday, 4pm.
“Refereeing is a very cut-throat business,” Jeff Winter once said. “A player can play in a cup final on the left or right of midfield. There’s only one position for a referee.”
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Only tuned in at half time. But based on the penalty to them and disallowed goal for us I’m not being biased but hope it’s his last game. Abysmal decisions. And that’s trying to be impartial.
I don’t see how either is a foul. But applying the logic he used for their pen surely our goal should’ve been a pen to us!
I don’t see how either is a foul. But applying the logic he used for their pen surely our goal should’ve been a pen to us!
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Let’s hope it’s his last
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Dreadful referee
Think Darren Deadman is better
Think Darren Deadman is better
Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Dreadful refereeing performance - totally incompetent
Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
2 big decisions 2 big mistakes
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
What a disgusting refereeing performance that was, wouldn’t surprise me if he was bribed.
FA hold your heads in shame
FA hold your heads in shame
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Disgusting. Every 50/50 went there way. Dont even start me on the penalties
Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Didn’t think they could be a worse ref than Moss or Mason but this guy is an absolute shocker!
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Awful display right up to the last minute when he played at least a minute short.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Inconsistent with yellows as well
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Worst I’ve seen for a long time, I’d never get tired of punching him either, just looks like an annoying prick
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
And f##kin last hopefully he was dreadful
Last edited by Sheedyclaret on Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Here's hoping its his fcuking last.
Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
A sickening performance full of what can only be described as blatant cheating.
Surely, a referee that has made it to this level can’t be so incompetent as to make those decisions in good faith.
There needs to be a full investigation and he needs striking off.
Surely, a referee that has made it to this level can’t be so incompetent as to make those decisions in good faith.
There needs to be a full investigation and he needs striking off.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Need a drink after that. Riled me up no end.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
He shouldn't be allowed near the Premier League but he will be
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
I very rarely get wound up by referees being a qualified referee myself but Mr. Jones was terrible. The Mee non-penalty for Burnley was particularly bad as he didn't let the incident play out before blowing his whistle. A really poor performance for the entire game.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Absolute shite ref ,never a penalty as Nick clearly played the ball first and Paddy Poshboy fell over Nick
Stonewall penalty for us as Ben was mugged by the keeper
A string of poor decisions by the ref with some inexplicable bookings for us and none for Leeds
Stonewall penalty for us as Ben was mugged by the keeper
A string of poor decisions by the ref with some inexplicable bookings for us and none for Leeds
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Prob has a bent copper as a brother
Made Jon Moss look like Collina
Made Jon Moss look like Collina
Last edited by Giftonsnoidea on Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
That’s only the second time in eight years I can recall Sean Dyche confronting a referee.
He was that bad.
He was that bad.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Can't be arsed to type about it.
Don't even know where to begin.
We couldn't have won that game, he saw to that.
Incompetent or in the take I don't know, should never ref another football match again - that I DO know!
Don't even know where to begin.
We couldn't have won that game, he saw to that.
Incompetent or in the take I don't know, should never ref another football match again - that I DO know!
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Brexit was the other day, DA, this is now about football so perhaps not the one for you mate.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Hopefully his last for us or in fact in this league. Awful, awful performance! Words can’t describe how bad he was today
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Dyche is normally measured so it will be interesting to see what he says.
We didn’t do enough to get the ball back into the net sadly but those two keys decisions have cost us three points.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Might as well turn VAR off when we are playing. Absolute joke.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Let's hope it's the last, incompetent is far too kind a description.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
If I was Dyche I’d take a fine, tell it like it is
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
One of my rare posts regarding the Ref.
WHAT AN ABSOLUTE, PREMIUM GRADE TOSSPOT
WHAT AN ABSOLUTE, PREMIUM GRADE TOSSPOT
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
I know you must be hurting that politics talk has been binned, but please just leave this thread for Burnley fans to have a moan after a defeat.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:13 pmDry your eyes mate, must get pretty boring blaming the ref every game
Twitter is supposed to be okay if you’re looking for somewhere else to play now?
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Have you nothing better to do than trying to antagonise when people are understandably unhappy after such a poor refereeing performance that has cost us.
Last edited by taio on Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
It is a long time since I got so angry watching a football match. If that is the best of up and coming referees then football is finished for me, I’ve hung on despite it becoming a farce... now it’s beyond farce.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Sorry, I didn't realise id invaded your safe space. Seriously though if today does get too much for you give the Samaritans a call, they will help.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
You enjoy winding up your own fans, it’s just weirdDevils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:13 pmDry your eyes mate, must get pretty boring blaming the ref every game
Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Just as funny the second time mate. You’re on fire today.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:21 pmSorry, I didn't realise id invaded your safe space. Seriously though if today does get too much for you give the Samaritans a call, they will help.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
The clue is in the name folks.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
I enjoy intelligent discussion about a football match (and would prefer to talk sensibly about the refs decisions) but unfortunately all you get on here is whining and crying about bad refs and the whole world being against us.
The standard of comments on here about the ref are nothing short of childish so im just joining in and lowering myself down to everybody elses level. If some adult discussions take place then i'll happily readjust the content of my posting
Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
We’ve mentioned this before. It works best when subtlety is applied. Obviousness is both boring and tragic.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
That was the worst performance by a referee I have probably ever witnessed. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t like Burnley or he supports Leeds as that was bloody dreadful. He didn’t just make one or two big errors it was the yellow cards as well given and then not replicated to Leeds it was one rule for us and a different one for them. Not sure how he would get on when crowds are back if he is that sh*t when under no pressure.
Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
I don't see anyone saying the world is against us. That would be stupid. People are rightly annoyed at the ref and him only at what was a baffling decision.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:26 pmI enjoy intelligent discussion about a football match (and would prefer to talk sensibly about the refs decisions) but unfortunately all you get on here is whining and crying about bad refs and the whole world being against us.
The standard of comments on here about the ref are nothing short of childish so im just joining in and lowering myself down to everybody elses level. If some adult discussions take place then i'll happily readjust the content of my posting
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Daylight robbery. Totally ****** off more so than if we’d been hammered 7-0
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
I enjoy talking about football sensibly but when everyone else is acting like big baby's there's not much else to do.
I mean the Pope tackle was a penalty all day long and whilst I was surprised the ref give their keeper the foul in truth Mee got nowhere near the ball and impeded the keeper who was going to reach it. Mee may have been going for the ball but its still a foul.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
Up there with Lee Mason, Barry Knight and Kevin Lynch performances that.
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
There people saying the ref is corrupt and has probably taken a bribe. Not sure how you have a sensible discussion with that kind of view
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Re: ARTICLE: A first Burnley league game for referee Jones
I’ll play, how is it a foul from Mee?Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:30 pmI enjoy talking about football sensibly but when everyone else is acting like big baby's there's not much else to do.
I mean the Pope tackle was a penalty all day long and whilst I was surprised the ref give their keeper the foul in truth Mee got nowhere near the ball and impeded the keeper who was going to reach it. Mee may have been going for the ball but its still a foul.