"Tragedy Chants" - clubs face sanctions.

[Vegas Claret]

Jack Walker was a huge fan of his club and then was able to bankroll them - that's pretty much every supporters dream of every club. I actually question those that sing it as to if they are even football fans.

[nil_desperandum]

I think you need to check your facts he died of cancer hence the song about the heart attack is inaccurate and wrong anyway.
My goodness the virtue signaling smugness on here is tedious.

Tony didn't say that he died of a heart attack, her referenced "a song that makes reference to someone dying of a heart attack".
It really doesn't matter what Jack Walker, (father, grandfather, family man and generous benefactor) died of, the point is that some of our supporters think it acceptable to sing a song that celebrates his death.

[AlargeClaret]

Thank goodness Burnley is still full of t1ts f@nny and clarets !

The Jack Walker song is pointless , up there with the Ronaldo “ sex offender “ chant ,one of the greatest players of time all was greeted with a pretty much every prem ground home and away .

[daveisaclaret]

I’d hardly call it virtue signalling

Hard to know what to say when common decency is called virtue signalling

[nil_desperandum]

Hard to know what to say when common decency is called virtue signalling

Let's have less of this "wokeness" on here.

[CardyTheClaret]

It's been mentioned above - but who is going to make the decision on where to draw the line? Most songs will offend somebody in one way or another. It's a slippery slope when we are telling football fans what they can or can't sing.

[evensteadiereddie]

No, it's not.

The club could quite properly and fairly issue pleas for fans not to sing certain songs.
Warnings or self policing should suffice otherwise, as with racist or similar crap, you're out.

[Burnley1989]

Hard to know what to say when common decency is called virtue signalling

It’s the go to response for some

[CardyTheClaret]

No, it's not.

The club could quite properly and fairly issue pleas for fans not to sing certain songs.
Warnings or self policing should suffice otherwise, as with racist or similar crap, you're out.

Ok, which songs? Clearly the two Jack Walker songs. Any others?

[vinrogue]

I was part of a group who argued with The FA about some of the chants about The IRA. We found a compromise when the chant started we just instantly drowned it out with another one. We even got the Sheffield band lads to also strike up when they heard it. Eventually it became a chant of the past. No quick fix.

[pureclaret]

The thing is, you'll get Burnley fans (already have) justifying the songs about Walker. You'll get Leeds fans justifying the Munich songs because Man United fans sang about Istanbul, and vice versa. There were Man United fans singing about Hillsborough at Anfield after Liverpool fans' standing ovation to commiserate with the loss of C Ronaldo's child and there will have been plenty justifying that too.

Sanctions could be a starting point for stopping this, but only because they can be a starting point from which other fans are willing (or able) to shut down/shun the dickhead minority who think this stuff is acceptable. It's in that sense not different to racism from the terraces (which may still exist but is now primarily only extremely isolated incidents) - the only thing that can end it is a better culture.

is your name Richard Head????

[pureclaret]

A lot of our supporters aren’t unfortunately. I don’t like them either and would never join in but I would question what harm they are doing other than to wind up opposition fans. Lots of football chants are ugly and wind people up, but that’s sort of the point.

I take it personally as a man who found his father lying on the carpet dead, and as such will tell any one singing it that they should out od common decency should not be sining it in as a vile song, I also have family who new JW very well and they find it offecive too.

[pureclaret]

People sing them sort of songs to be a rebel.

Any formal action would likely make it more attractive. Especially with more publicity.

They arnt rebels they are just richard heads

[daveisaclaret]

is your name Richard Head????

It's quite transparently Dave

[evensteadiereddie]

Ok, which songs? Clearly the two Jack Walker songs. Any others?

The club would be within their rights to decide, at board level, which songs they thought unacceptable and/or detrimental to the club's ethos and reputation.
We would have to accept that.
I'd be even more delighted if they did it in conjunction with the BFC Supporters groups.

[IanMcL]

It's been mentioned above - but who is going to make the decision on where to draw the line? Most songs will offend somebody in one way or another. It's a slippery slope when we are telling football fans what they can or can't sing.

A personal attack on a man who helped his local club, prior to his death, is beyond appalling. It is horrific and should never be sung, anywhere.

It reflects on those who song it, in the very worst way and tarnishes the reputation of the town, club and just about all the Claret fanbase.

What if B'tard Rovers fans eventually sing about Barry Kilby? What would you think then?

[NRC]

A lot of our supporters aren’t unfortunately. I don’t like them either and would never join in but I would question what harm they are doing other than to wind up opposition fans. Lots of football chants are ugly and wind people up, but that’s sort of the point.

And yet an event like the Superbowl can be played and broadcast to billions, and not one single chant from one set of supporters to the other set that is even remotely offensive. They chant, but it's positives about their own team (like the 10 in a row song - much, MUCH more effective).

It just really does not need to be the case today to be offensive

[Jakubclaret]

I think that when some of us cringe at these songs, we are mainly thinking about the children who are with us.
The bad language (both spoken and sung) is something which I think you just have to accept, and most children come across these words in the school playground or on the TV, (and in some cases form their parents), but I feel very uneasy when I have grandchildren with me and we get the Walker song, and a couple of others.
To hear grown up adults (some of them female) singing the t *** and f******s song is really quite embarrassing.
Not much of a problem at home games, but quite an education for kids if you take them to away games.

Maybe it's time to consider it that could be more appropriate to take children to different environments than environments where thousands of people some inebriated are letting off steam & being inappropriate, you'll never stop 1 side happening but you are more in control with the other side.

[Burnley1989]

Here he is

[evensteadiereddie]

Maybe it's time to consider it that could be more appropriate to take children to different environments than environments where thousands of people some inebriated are letting off steam & being inappropriate, you'll never stop 1 side happening but you are more in control with the other side.

Good to see you've not lost your touch, Jakub.

[Jakubclaret]

Good to see you've not lost your touch, Jakub.

Somethings we can control somethings we can't, let's not moan about what we can do.

[evensteadiereddie]

I'm not sure you're making sense but I would argue that this issue is one the club and its decent supporters could remedy quite easily with no moaning whatsoever.


Your scheme to eliminate kids from our fan base is about as daft as it gets, tbh.

No offence so please don't get the thread closed.
I really think this problem can be solved especially in a season like this.

[Jakubclaret]

I'm not sure you're making sense but I would argue that this issue is one the club and its decent supporters could remedy quite easily with no moaning whatsoever.


Your scheme to eliminate kids from our fan base is about as daft as it gets, tbh.

No offence so please don't get the thread closed.
I really think this problem can be solved especially in a season like this.

I'm not about eliminating anybody from any fanbase I'm suggesting that people who are unhappy with certain situations have a choice because you'll never stop that certain situation from happening, nobody needs to be nasty or even have a argument adults should be able to discuss things.

[evensteadiereddie]

Same here. I still maintain that the way to deal with this issue is for the club and supporters groups to become involved so that, eventually, the idea of singing about someone's death, appears to be just as offensive and pointless as, say, a racist chant to even the most ignorant of fans.
You advocating not taking kids on the Turf because this singing can't be stopped is plain daft.
Things can change - I know you don't go on the Turf but those chants referring to a townful of ***** or a black player as a ******, ******, ******. just aren't heard any more, thank God.
We have a great club with a great ethos and we're enjoying a fabulous season.
What a great time to make it even better.

[LONDONCLARET23]

I was thinking about the Munich one the other day whilst watching yet another anniversary item on the news about it. Why does this have to be dragged up every 5 years on North West news? It was showing kids there looking glum with United scarfs on whose parents wouldn’t even have been alive when it happened. I was only four and I’m getting on. There are far far worse tragedies in the world than this that never get a mention 20 years after let alone 65 years on.
Sorry if this seems disrespectful but I do get a little p!ssed off by the obsession with bloody United, especially in light of what’s just happened in Turkey/Syria. Munich happened, a handful of footballers died. It’s sad but it’s not the end of the world.

This is a joke in poor taste I presume?

[Jakubclaret]

I was thinking about the Munich one the other day whilst watching yet another anniversary item on the news about it. Why does this have to be dragged up every 5 years on North West news? It was showing kids there looking glum with United scarfs on whose parents wouldn’t even have been alive when it happened. I was only four and I’m getting on. There are far far worse tragedies in the world than this that never get a mention 20 years after let alone 65 years on.
Sorry if this seems disrespectful but I do get a little p!ssed off by the obsession with bloody United, especially in light of what’s just happened in Turkey/Syria. Munich happened, a handful of footballers died. It’s sad but it’s not the end of the world.

In proportion to other tragedies across the globe it does crop up more often the same applies to Hillsborough it's mindful to remember on football forums it will do as their are football related incidents as opposed to 9/11 etc we hear less of.

[timshorts]

And yet an event like the Superbowl can be played and broadcast to billions, and not one single chant from one set of supporters to the other set that is even remotely offensive. They chant, but it's positives about their own team (like the 10 in a row song - much, MUCH more effective).

It just really does not need to be the case today to be offensive

They chant?

Well, no. They don't. They know nothing about chanting and most of their hard core support are totally jealous of the way it is done over here.

The superbowl, anyway, is overly corporate, loads of freebies, loads of season ticket holders not being able to get tickets while c-list celebs have no bother. Just like our fa cup final, really.

I'm struggling to think of anything that they do in us football that compares with our fan experience. Winsconsin badgers jump around, maybe. A few native American chant tunes (no words) and singing "overrated" is all that comes to mind. They can keep their marching bands and cheerleaders thanks v much. Christ, they were extatic when the fans in Germany sang "take me home, country road" as they just aren't used to anything like that.

I hope we'd have had a barrage of songs to sing at tom Brady et al if they came to play burnley, preferably not the one asking if giselle b took it up her a.

[tarkys_ears]

Except for the rampant rioting of the Eagles fans and general bad behaviour that goes with most NFL games

...someone please mention Rugby fans and how delightful they are after last week

[CardyTheClaret]

A personal attack on a man who helped his local club, prior to his death, is beyond appalling. It is horrific and should never be sung, anywhere.

It reflects on those who song it, in the very worst way and tarnishes the reputation of the town, club and just about all the Claret fanbase.

What if B'tard Rovers fans eventually sing about Barry Kilby? What would you think then?

I'd be upset by it, obviously. But, I'd also accept that pricks will be pricks. But, I maintain that we are on a slippery slope if we are going to be told what we can or can't sing about.

[IanMcL]

I'd be upset by it, obviously. But, I'd also accept that pricks will be pricks. But, I maintain that we are on a slippery slope if we are going to be told what we can or can't sing about.

Perhaps that one shouldn't need much thought?

[Jakubclaret]

Same here. I still maintain that the way to deal with this issue is for the club and supporters groups to become involved so that, eventually, the idea of singing about someone's death, appears to be just as offensive and pointless as, say, a racist chant to even the most ignorant of fans.
You advocating not taking kids on the Turf because this singing can't be stopped is plain daft.
Things can change - I know you don't go on the Turf but those chants referring to a townful of ***** or a black player as a ******, ******, ******. just aren't heard any more, thank God.
We have a great club with a great ethos and we're enjoying a fabulous season.
What a great time to make it even better.

The only thing I'm advocating is a person's right to make a choice if they aren't happy with things, regarding children attending football of course I'm not against that the kids will be the next generation coming thru & so on & so on, it's ingrained & steeped in history families upon generations attending together. The rest of your post doesn't reflect any relevance to the initial post so I'm not entirely sure why that's being brought up

[pureclaret]

The only thing I'm advocating is a person's right to make a choice if they aren't happy with things, regarding children attending football of course I'm not against that the kids will be the next generation coming thru & so on & so on, it's ingrained & steeped in history families upon generations attending together. The rest of your post doesn't reflect any relevance to the initial post so I'm not entirely sure why that's being brought up

Then lets stop the discusting chants and the poor language, its not something to be proud of if your to thick to enjoy a game without resulting to the language used. If someone persistanty swears ask them not to then next just report it on the app simples they get ejected once a few have gone the others will stop.
I dont have children to take on as they have grown up but if I did I would think its quite right to expect little or no bad language

[claretonthecoast1882]

Maybe it's time to consider it that could be more appropriate to take children to different environments than environments where thousands of people some inebriated are letting off steam & being inappropriate, you'll never stop 1 side happening but you are more in control with the other side.

Remember when jakub claimed to have been a counsellor ?

[Jakubclaret]

Then lets stop the discusting chants and the poor language, its not something to be proud of if your to thick to enjoy a game without resulting to the language used. If someone persistanty swears ask them not to then next just report it on the app simples they get ejected once a few have gone the others will stop.
I dont have children to take on as they have grown up but if I did I would think its quite right to expect little or no bad language

In an ideal world I couldn’t agree more the other poster I was discussing this with thinks eventually it’ll stop through other methods but it’s been going on since the dawn of time & if anything it’s on the rise. Sometimes you need to accept it’s a war that can’t be won & channel your efforts into doing things you are in control of. I’m not in control of you but I’m in control of myself & vice versa.

[evensteadiereddie]

Nonsense.

[Jakubclaret]

Nonsense.

True or false - is negative behavior at football mostly fueled by excessive drug consumption?

[evensteadiereddie]

I wouldn't know.
From what I've seen at the CFS it's a mix of Coke heads, drunks and people who should know better.
Irrelevant anyway.
If BFC, with the aid of supporters who care enough about the club, decide enough is enough, it could be made pretty clear that the JW crap flouts the ground rules, the rules of entry, and if you can't or won't comply, you're out

[Jakubclaret]

I wouldn't know.
From what I've seen at the CFS it's a mix of Coke heads, drunks and people who should know better.
Irrelevant anyway.
If BFC, with the aid of supporters who care enough about the club, decide enough is enough, it could be made pretty clear that the JW crap flouts the ground rules, the rules of entry, and if you can't or won't comply, you're out

Irrelevant that's a corker do you think the people misbehaving at football are completely drug free that's the source of the problem & that's why you'll never stop it unless you stop that. It's a problem beyond our understanding & something that will never be fixed you can mitigate through education only. Good day.

[evensteadiereddie]

Read my post again.
Please.
You will notice how I mentioned how it's a mix of Coke heads, drunks and people who should know better.
Even you can see, I hope, that I have acknowledged there that some drug/alcohol use is the cause of poor behaviour but not exclusively.

If you're going to discuss an issue, please have the manners and decency to read and, hopefully, understand anything posted.
It kind of defeats the whole purpose of the board if you're going to make things up when discussing an issue as important as this.
I'll say again, these chants could be eradicated pretty quickly either through the Club issuing advice and gentle persuasion or, if needs must, banning orders.

[pureclaret]

In an ideal world I couldn’t agree more the other poster I was discussing this with thinks eventually it’ll stop through other methods but it’s been going on since the dawn of time & if anything it’s on the rise. Sometimes you need to accept it’s a war that can’t be won & channel your efforts into doing things you are in control of. I’m not in control of you but I’m in control of myself & vice versa.

Just because its been going on for a long time does not mean it cant be changed, as rgards to accepting it , why its easy to fix you ask them to stop, as you said your not incontrol of me or I you but if it is decided that behaviour language is inappropriate then we do have control of the these people you ask them they stop its simple.
If they dont then I /we have the control over them being removed form the ground or area. just like any other aspect of life, it just takes time to get people to accept that things we did in the past that either were acceptable or just ignored, that we know dont allow know.

[pureclaret]

It's quite transparently Dave

Oh I m so sorry I missed that , I just wrongly thought that your actions represented your name so thought you were a RH my bad

[houseboy]

This is a joke in poor taste I presume?

Not at all. I’m absolutely serious. In light of what is happening in Turkey/Syria it seems relevant to get things in context. My point is, in case you missed it, that if it was anyone other than United it would be long forgotten. I’m not belittling the dead, simply questioning why it is dragged up on the media every five years when most of their fans weren’t even born when it happened.

As for it being a joke that probably says more about your sense of humour than mine.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Not at all. I’m absolutely serious. In light of what is happening in Turkey/Syria it seems relevant to get things in context. My point is, in case you missed it, that if it was anyone other than United it would be long forgotten. I’m not belittling the dead, simply questioning why it is dragged up on the media every five years when most of their fans weren’t even born when it happened.

As for it being a joke that probably says more about your sense of humour than mine.

There are times when people really should put their personal dislike / hatred of a football club to one side.

You seem surprised that North West news covered the anniversary of the disaster of the biggest football club in the world who are based in the North West.

Do you have the same issues when Hillsborough is remembered or the Bradford fire ?

[bpgburn]

Just because its been going on for a long time does not mean it cant be changed, as rgards to accepting it , why its easy to fix you ask them to stop, as you said your not incontrol of me or I you but if it is decided that behaviour language is inappropriate then we do have control of the these people you ask them they stop its simple.
If they dont then I /we have the control over them being removed form the ground or area. just like any other aspect of life, it just takes time to get people to accept that things we did in the past that either were acceptable or just ignored, that we know dont allow know.

So, you are in an area of the ground where several hundred fans start singing something inappropriate, you ask them ALL to stop, if they don't then you have them ALL removed from the ground, it's that simple? Good luck with that fella.

[evensteadiereddie]

So why don't "fans" sing racist stuff any more?
What happened to cause that I wonder.

You wouldn't need to throw many out.
Once it was made pretty clear the JW garbage would not be tolerated and if you persisted, you'd be out and lose your ST, there wouldn't be many "fans" willing to take the chance.
Those stupid enough to do so would be made an example of.

[bpgburn]

So why don't "fans" sing racist stuff any more?
What happened to cause that I wonder.

You wouldn't need to throw many out.
Once it was made pretty clear the JW garbage would not be tolerated and if you persisted, you'd be out and lose your ST, there wouldn't be many "fans" willing to take the chance.
Those stupid enough to do so would be made an example of.

Comprehensive campaigns such a Kick it out etc. that aim to re-educate and change overall culture alongside identifying those who persist (seat number, stand, descriptions etc), to the relevant BFC channels to deal with, not by individuals confronting other individuals or groups telling them to stop. Not recommended.

[NRC]

True or false - is negative behavior at football mostly fueled by excessive drug consumption?

False. Take out “mostly” and it’s true. I would suggest it’s behavior passed down through the years, where the younger mimic the elder and “get away with it” like they wouldn’t do at home. It then becomes culturally tribal, where the individual cognitive dissonance is protected within the mass in giving the finger to a specific situation at a game, as a metaphor to “flip” society in general. Of course this is then fueled by drugs and alcohol on top.

At least that I always justified to myself

[evensteadiereddie]

Comprehensive campaigns such a Kick it out etc. that aim to re-educate and change overall culture alongside identifying those who persist (seat number, stand, descriptions etc), to the relevant BFC channels to deal with, not by individuals confronting other individuals or groups telling them to stop. Not recommended.

Exactly.

[houseboy]

There are times when people really should put their personal dislike / hatred of a football club to one side.

You seem surprised that North West news covered the anniversary of the disaster of the biggest football club in the world who are based in the North West.

Do you have the same issues when Hillsborough is remembered or the Bradford fire ?

1. I don’t hate any football club…not even Rovers particularly.
2. 23 died in the Munich crash. Some of whom were famous footballers.
3. Nearly 60 died at Bradford. None of whom were famous footballers.
4. Over 90 died at Hillsborough. None of whom were famous footballers.
What I’m talking about is context. Far more people died at Bradford and Sheffield far more recently than died at Munich, which, sad though it was, was not that big a disaster in the overall scheme of things. It won’t be long before it can be classed as ‘not in living memory’, in fact it isn’t now for most of their fans. I just question dragging up the past in this way on a regular basis when there are far worse things happening in the world. If it hadn’t been for the ‘famous footballer’ element I doubt it would be still remembered.

[Jakubclaret]

Read my post again.
Please.
You will notice how I mentioned how it's a mix of Coke heads, drunks and people who should know better.
Even you can see, I hope, that I have acknowledged there that some drug/alcohol use is the cause of poor behaviour but not exclusively.

If you're going to discuss an issue, please have the manners and decency to read and, hopefully, understand anything posted.
It kind of defeats the whole purpose of the board if you're going to make things up when discussing an issue as important as this.
I'll say again, these chants could be eradicated pretty quickly either through the Club issuing advice and gentle persuasion or, if needs must, banning orders.

I read your post 1st time around & you really do need to extract your head from the clouds I've made absolutely nothing up please quote me where I have, regarding eradication good luck with that 1 you'll have to let me know how you get on with it I suspect it in 12 months time we'll be talking about exactly same thing & in another 12 months & so on. It's a problem throughout football.